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ImNotTrevor
2014-07-18, 10:12 AM
Hi guys. Another question for those wiser than me. I'm soon to embark on my first journey into Pathfinder, and I have a love of using Leadership to get up to what are best called "shenanigans" in 3.5 games.

With that in mind, what is the best way to continue that play style in PF?

I am doing some research of my own on the side, but some help from the resident experts is vastly appreciated.

Eldaran
2014-07-18, 02:29 PM
Uh... Take Leadership, then get a Wizard cohort and you're optimized.

ImNotTrevor
2014-07-18, 02:42 PM
Uh... Take Leadership, then get a Wizard cohort and you're optimized.

I meant it in the spirit of "How do I get the highest number of followers/nifty things out of the Leadership feat."

Luckily, I've found a few options that synergize pretty well with Leadership and let me do some fun things, so I'm not particularly concerned about it at this point.

Aharon
2014-07-18, 03:32 PM
I meant it in the spirit of "How do I get the highest number of followers/nifty things out of the Leadership feat."

Luckily, I've found a few options that synergize pretty well with Leadership and let me do some fun things, so I'm not particularly concerned about it at this point.

Thrallherd is unchanged from 3.5. Wilder can enter it - Charisma synergy for highest number of followers. Depending on how much say you have in what kind of follower you attract, go for Tacticians and Vitalists for sweet group synergy.
Be warned though: Your DM will be annoyed by the amount of bookkeeping your "character" (=more like, army of npcs) requires.

Arbane
2014-07-18, 07:09 PM
Ring of the Ecclesiarch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-the-ecclesiarch) grants you double the normal number of followers.

Now, what's a good use for a large number of first-level scrubs? Crew for a ship, maybe, but I can't think of much else they'd actually be good for...

grarrrg
2014-07-18, 07:50 PM
I meant it in the spirit of "How do I get the highest number of followers/nifty things out of the Leadership feat."

There isn't much. Pathfinder has shied away from Leadership boosting for the most part, and with good reason.

Class-wise there is the Low Templar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/low-templar) PrC, first level gets you "A low templar never suffers a penalty to his Leadership score for moving around frequently, aloofness, cruelty, or the loss of prior cohorts or followers, and can replace lost followers in half the normal amount of time."
At tenth: "If the low templar has the Leadership feat, he gains a +1 bonus to his Leadership score. If he replaces his cohort gained from the leadership feat with the planar cohort, the maximum level equivalent for his planar cohort equals the templar’s class level –1, rather than –2."*

Noble Scion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/noble-scion) PrC is the source of perhaps the greatest (ab)use though, at 2nd level your Cohort's level limit is 1 lower than yours. If you stick around to Noble Scion 10 your Cohort's Level limit is the same as yours.
As long as your Cohort is a "Noble" and qualifies for the PrC you can repeat this seemingly infinitely.
The main downside is that the class is actually pretty bad otherwise.
At 7th you also get a "Servitor" of the same level as your Cohort. This Servitor is specifically for "behind the scenes" type work, such as running the estate while master is away.

So a decent start to optimize leadership would be 5 levels of something, 1 level of Low Templar, then all 10 of Noble Scion.
Not recommended for Caster classes though, as between Templar and Scion you lose 9 levels of Casting (Scion gets _2_ optional "spells increase" bonuses).

*Just noticed that this ability is absolutely horrible as written. The Planar Cohorts level limit is the "Templar's _class_ level -1". It should likely read "_character_ level -1"

NightbringerGGZ
2014-07-18, 08:16 PM
I rather like the Noble Scion PRC, but that's mostly due to a character concept I've got in my back pocket based on having a duo based on Zapp Brannigan and Kiff.

Don't forget about the Squire (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/squire)feat. This nets you a Cohort at level 3, though with a limited number of classes to pick from. This feat is then swapped for Leadership when you hit level 7.

The Dynasty Founder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/story-feats/dynasty-founder-story) feat grants you Followers as if you had Leadership, and if you ever gain Leadership provides you with one of the very few ways of boosting your Leadership score. If the feat's story conditions are met you're granted control over an entire city-sized settlement.

icefractal
2014-07-19, 12:00 AM
If you get to pick classes for your followers, there some that give nice benefits at low level.

The Dual-Cursed Oracle's forced re-roll, for example, is pretty damn awesome even as a cohort ability. As something that several dozen followers have, it's insanely good.

I believe that several classes like Alchemist, Inquisitor, and maybe others have ways to boost the group's initiative by like 1st-2nd level. Combine them all, and you could be going first always.

Psion (Shaper) 1 gets Minor Creation at will. Have a wide variety of tools, weapons, armor, and poisons available.

avr
2014-07-19, 01:41 AM
There's rather a lot of magic items which can add a +1-3 to your leadership score. Head to d20pfsrd, and do a search for Leadership, restricted to magic items.

JohnnyCancer
2014-07-20, 02:41 AM
Ring of the Ecclesiarch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-the-ecclesiarch) grants you double the normal number of followers.

Now, what's a good use for a large number of first-level scrubs? Crew for a ship, maybe, but I can't think of much else they'd actually be good for...

If you have a say in their build, set them up to gather info then deposit them in different towns. You can scry on them as needed and use their residence as a familiar place to teleport to. These kinds of antics are handy in intrigue/merchant prince type games.

AnonymousPepper
2014-07-20, 03:16 AM
It's already been mentioned, but... Thrallherd. Just... Thrallherd.

It's literally Leadership: THE CLASS!

rollforeigninit
2014-07-20, 07:54 AM
There's a trait that boosts your leadership score as well.

Corvino
2014-07-20, 08:40 AM
The Battle Herald Prestige class adds their inspiring Command bonus to your leadership score, netting you up to a +4. Depending on how you build them they can actually be a useful class to have lots of followers with. They're not guaranteed a high Charisma, but having one gives you access to the Flagbearer feat as well as Eldritch Heritage.

Cavalier 4 (Flagbearer & Strategist archetypes)/Bard 1/Battle Herald 10 allows you to be close to a full martial but with with Inspire Courage, the ability to share teamwork feats and various other bonuses. Add in something like the Flagbearer feat and a Banner of the Ancient Kings (Stick it on a longspear and just act as a reach fighter in combat) and you've got a character who can buff even the wimpiest level 4 follower into something combat capable. A combination of Sound the Charge (Swift action), Flagbearer + BotAK (always on) and Tactician (Move action) can grant +6 to hit and damage and share a teamwork feat with all allies within 30 feet in 1 turn as well as taking a Standard Action - this is achievable at level 15. (+5 version is available a lot earlier). Giving all your minions Shield Wall, Shake it off, Outflank or Paired Opportunists can be very powerful when it applies to two dozen NPCs.

The Battle Herald PrC actually doesn't look like much on paper, but many of the bonuses can be used concurrently once you reach level 10 and end up stacking with things. You could for instance use Inspire Courage instead of Sound the Charge in the previous example, and instead give +5 to hit and damage and +4 to Will saves using "Keep your Heads".