Gambit in 3.5

[m149307]

Ok, so I plan on building a Gambit type rogue as a backup incase my RKV dies. Any ideas on how to make it work? I need help with figuring out how to do the exploding cards, and if I can sneak attack with them. Please and thank you

[Vhaidara]

Refluff shurikens into metal edged cards, and write Explosive Runes on them. When they ar edestroyed (such as by hitting), the Runes are destroyed, which sets them off.

I actually asked about this a few month ago. Recommended class is Factotum, which lets you get more actions to throw more cards, and also has Arcane Dilettante, which you can use to get your Runes.

[saxavarius]

Also you may try going into the Master Thrower class for some fun tricks you can do

[The Ravensong]

You'll have to check me on this, because I'm not 100% confident this is allowed.
Explosive Rune Shuriken
Some people would argue that when an item Explosive Runes is written on is broken the spell discharges. I haven't actually seen where in the rules that it would suggest that this happens, but the rest of the internet seems to agree that this is the case, so if your DM is also of the idea that this is how it works, perfect.
Shuriken, since they are treated as ammunition, automatically break on a hit and a 50/50 shot of breaking even on a miss. So a hit would mean 1d2+6d6 damage (no save) to your target. You could still get sneak attack damage from the shuriken itself on a hit, but not on the aoe damage.
A clever build to take advantage of this would be Sorcerer6(because gambit is a smooth operator)/Rogue3/MasterThrower5/Arcane Trickster6.
My suggestion for throwing tricks would be Palm Throw, Two with One Blow, and Weak Spot. So you get to throw two rune shuriken with each attack, and each of those shuriken is able to hit two targets, and each of those shuriken is resolved as a touch attack with a -4 penalty. Also dump feats into the TWF and Rapid Shot trees. Explosions for days.
For bonus points: use your higher level spell slots to cast Explosive Exploding Runes so anyone in the blast radius also gets thrown away from the center on a failed save.
To be honest, I'd love to see the reasoning as to why so many people think Explosive Runes does/should work this way, because I can't find anything in either the RAW or RAI to support it.
As far as something I'm 100% confident is legal, just cast them on regular playing cards and flick them at people. Reading something is an instinctual non-action for the most part, and it only takes a fraction of a second to comprehend that the card that just fell in front of you is the ace of hearts. You don't have to inspect it or think about it to understand what it is... you just have to spend your level 3 slots. For this I would suggest Sorcerer6/Incantatrix10. And since Explosive Runes has a permanent duration, you can use spellcraft metamagic up the rune'd cards you already have outside of battle with empower spell, explosive spell, and such. No sneak attack there, but still awesome

[Shinken]

Factotum would take forever to get a shuriken arsenal, though, since it can only cast Explosive Runes once per day.

[TheIronGolem]

If Pathfinder material is available, you could take some Alchemist levels and refluff the bombs as explosive cards.

[Vhaidara]

Factotum would take forever to get a shuriken arsenal, though, since it can only cast Explosive Runes once per day.

You can also just pick up a wand to make your initial stockpile.

[m149307]

Pathfinder material isn't allowed, unfortunately. And it would take me a while with Factotum to get enough Shurikens together to be a threat.

How much would it cost to get a wand of Exploding Runes?

[Prime32]

You could just play a warlock and fluff your blasts as cards - there's even the option of a luck-themed invocation or two.

Otherwise, get some gloves of endless javelins for thrown weapons that deal force damage.

[Vhaidara]

They aren't cheap (11250), but if your party has a wizard, you can get him the spell for 375, plus a bit to scribe it into his spellbook. Any time you have downtime, he can produce them at a rate of (spell slots 3rd level and higher)/day

[Shinken]

There is also the point that breaking the object is not necessarily the same as trying to erase the runes, so you'd have to make sure your DM is OK with that reading.

[m149307]

My party is without a wizard unfortunately. So would have to pay 11250 for a wand. How many charges does it have, and can I get a link if possible (or a page). And I think my DM will be ok with that reading hoping, more like).

[Vhaidara]

50 charges. It's a third level spell put into a wand. Wands are generic, so they don't get individual item entries. Though I do think it should be on the Wands table in the Magic Items section of the DMG

[m149307]

Ok cool. And how high should I bump UMD to be able to use the wand without fail?

[Vhaidara]

Sadly, you technically need a +19, since you can't take 10 on UMD. However, there is no penalty for failure with attempting to use a wand unless you roll a 1 and fail, which prevents you from attempting to use it for 24 hours. So, even if you can't take 10, out of combat you can just keep using it until you roll a 1, then but it away until tomorrow. A week or two will drain out the wand.

[m149307]

Ok, so there is really no need to put more than say 10 points in it. Just keep rolling until you roll a 1. Got it. So, should I still go Rogue/swashbuckler/master thrower with a wand and shurikens? or is there another class that would be better? I don't want to optimize damage too much. This is mainly for flavor, but I would like to deal decentish damage.

Or go factotum?

[Vhaidara]

Factotum is better at being a rogue than the rogue is.

Master thrower is very flavorful, but honestly not that good. The big draw to it was Palm Throw, which lets your double your attacks, which works great with Sneak Attack. However, it was errataed to only give SA on the first shot. You're better off going Factotum, dumping all of your feats into Font of Inspiration, and spending a ton of points on Cunning Surge (extra Standard actions) and Cunning Strike (1 inspiration gives you 1d6 SA for the round, no cap)

[NightbringerGGZ]

Hopefully you can dip into Pathfinder, as there are quite few options for the Magus that are perfect for a Gambit build, along with feats for this build as well.

The Card Caster (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Card%20Caster) Magus gains the Card Caster feat without the normal prerequisites. This lets you treat a "deck" of cards as a weapon with 54 pieces of ammo for enhancement purposes while also dealing lethal damage when you throw those cards.

Your spell strike is modified to only work with your ranged attacks, but let you start casting Touch Attack spells as part of that ranged attack. So you're throwing a Shocking Grasp out with those cards.

I'm pretty sure you can also mix in Staff Magus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/staff-magus) if you like too.

While this build isn't the most optimized Magus, it's pretty much perfect for playing Gambit.

[m149307]

Ok gotcha. How does a whisper gnome factotum sound? And NightbringerGGZ, Pathfinder isn't allowed.

[Vhaidara]

Whisper Gnomes are extinct in at least one setting I play in (my uncle killed them off after someone played one), but for your purposes it should be just fine. Although I think you'd be a bit better off tracking down a race with an Int buff (probably an elf subrace), since your Int limits the number of times you can take Font of Inspiration.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Rogue/Master Thrower/Pyrokineticist

Pick up the 'Throw Anything' feat. You're going to want to go light on Rogue, so you can get more Pyro levels. Ask the DM if you can take a different element, though.

...What? Being able to pick up, charge, and throw ANYthing was Gambit's schtick, wasn't it? Get a few decks of masterwork cards, and have them enchanted to be +1 Distant cards.

Done. I'll be on break.