Crap!!

[Fireball.Man.Guy.]

Am I the only one worried about Belkar's well being? Hinjo said that the mark of justice won't be removed till after the battle. I'm rather sure holding the gates is within 1 mile of the city. He'll be taking a -4 to all attacks and deal no-lethal damage. To Undead. He is totaly screwed. NOOOO!!!!

[Suraht]

I think he can still deal full damage and has no penalties to his rolls. It's just that dealing lethal damage to a living being within city limits will activate the mark. He can chop up all the undead he wants without penalty, and can still kick and punch anything living without a problem(not to mention soak them in sake so someone else can throw a candle on them).

Of course, the penalties could be there, but no one's mentioned them AFAIK.

[TomMc]

Am I the only one worried about Belkar's well being? Hinjo said that the mark of justice won't be removed till after the battle. I'm rather sure holding the gates is within 1 mile of the city.

It occurred to me too. Not that I'm worried about Belkar's ability to take care of himself. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html)
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0357.html)

[Vespe Ratavo]

Ah-hem. I think there are a few distinct possibilities....

*The Oots will be a "strike team" to do....something, thereby taking them probably one mile from the city.
*The Oots (or at least Belkar :smallbiggrin:) Are going to charge into the horde of gobbos, thereby taking them one mile from the city.
*Belkar will be relegated to undead duty.
*Something completely unexpected... V removes the mark?

[TARINunit9]

Well he should be fine. I mean, he's a member of the OOTS, so-

Oh crap! Remember what the Oracle said? That he wouldn't live much longer? He IS gonna die!

Unless that was just a hunch :P Belkar SHOULD be fine... unless...

[Mordaedil]

Remember that the Mark of Justice only kicks in if he attacks a living target, so undead are fair game. I'd think they'd make exception to monsters as well, but oh well.

[Jewel Thief]

If Belkar dies now, I'm going to be so mad at Azure City for putting that mark on him. Cause I can only see his death being a result of his inability to fight hobbos and gobbos.

[Mr Teufel]

#295: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) "One, he can't deal lethal damage to any living creature within the bounds of any city, town, or village."

If I have a cup, and say everything within the bounds of the cup is blue, I'm not saying anything about the colour of the cup itself.

We can hopefully agree that the bounds of the city are it's walls. Therefore Belkar "cannot deal lethal damage to any living creature within the [walls] of any city..."

But if he's not within the walls, but upon them, logically this should not apply.

So logically, Belkar should be free to fight as he wishes while on the walls of Azure City. :smallsmile:

But Vaarsuvius will have to explain this to him.:smallwink:

[Jawajoey]

#295: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) "One, he can't deal lethal damage to any living creature within the bounds of any city, town, or village."

If I have a cup, and say everything within the bounds of the cup is blue, I'm not saying anything about the colour of the cup itself.

We can hopefully agree that the bounds of the city are it's walls. Therefore Belkar "cannot deal lethal damage to any living creature within the [walls] of any city..."

But if he's not within the walls, but upon them, logically this should not apply.

So logically, Belkar should be free to fight as he wishes while on the walls of Azure City. :smallsmile:

But Vaarsuvius will have to explain this to him.:smallwink:

Interesting idea. The question is, do the laws of magic kowtow to semantics?

[Snake-Aes]

Some of it should. Ever seen magical mouth? XD

Anyway, finding out said situation is a funny thing to happen by the very last minute of battle.

"Ok now that all hobgoblins are down and the RedCloak guy is running away, we can seize the remaining ghouls an- wait, WHAT?"

[donkyhotay]

Belkar can't die yet, he hasn't caused the death of one of the people the oracle promised him. Personally I think he's going to be relegated to undead duty. Besides, maybe he will get smart, trigger the MoJ and force someone to take it off him so that he can "help" with the battle.

[Snake-Aes]

Outwitting others in the middle of action's not his style.

[fangthane]

First off, my congratulations on having selected Colon Tumor. :)

Now then... So long as the bad guys are outside the walls, no other semantic arguments need apply. He can also push off scaling ladders and could even within the bounds of the city, since that'd be indirect damage caused by the fall, not dealt by Belkar. When Xykon's forces breach (as they almost must) things may change a bit.

He can do a nice job on the fleshy undead though, regardless of location. They're not alive and are thus incapable of making the mark trigger.

Of course we still don't know whether Shojo was pulling everyone's chain; the MoJ may still be a false claim perpetuated only by the fact that it's never been put to the test. The person who cast it may not know that Shojo misrepresented an Arcane Mark as a MoJ in this case, and I'd love to see the expression on Belkar's face when he finds out, if so.

[Haruki-kun]

#295: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) "One, he can't deal lethal damage to any living creature within the bounds of any city, town, or village."

Mmmm...... this comic is usually very literal,you know? He can't deal lethal damage to any LIVING creature within the bounds of the city, so he can hold his ground for a while. Of course, if he comes across any Hobgoblins, Redcloak, the Demon Roaches (yeah, right.......) or possibly the MITD, he's just plain screwed.

[Ava]

Belkar is too awesome to get kicked off the show yet. :) He will probably manage to stay out of trouble somehow... perhaps by dressing up as an orc or hobgoblin and infiltrating the enemy camp to do recon? Oh wait, I think I saw that once before...

[Brettoe]

I think he can still deal full damage and has no penalties to his rolls. It's just that dealing lethal damage to a living being within city limits will activate the mark. He can chop up all the undead he wants without penalty, and can still kick and punch anything living without a problem(not to mention soak them in sake so someone else can throw a candle on them).

I agree with Suraht here, He can still kill undead, but the hobgoblins I don't know about

[Spleen]

Outwitting others in the middle of action's not his style.

Sake. Tavern. Lead sheet.

[Guildorn Tanaleth]

#295: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) "One, he can't deal lethal damage to any living creature within the bounds of any city, town, or village."

If I have a cup, and say everything within the bounds of the cup is blue, I'm not saying anything about the colour of the cup itself.

We can hopefully agree that the bounds of the city are it's walls. Therefore Belkar "cannot deal lethal damage to any living creature within the [walls] of any city..."

But if he's not within the walls, but upon them, logically this should not apply.

So logically, Belkar should be free to fight as he wishes while on the walls of Azure City. :smallsmile:

But Vaarsuvius will have to explain this to him.:smallwink:

Yes, but the walls are very thick. A border is merely a one-dimensional line (embedded in a three-dimensional space), and not all of the wall can be located on that line. The border is probably the outside edge of the wall, so being on the wall would place you inside the city.

[Glome]

Belkar can't die yet, he hasn't caused the death of one of the people the oracle promised him. Personally I think he's going to be relegated to undead duty. Besides, maybe he will get smart, trigger the MoJ and force someone to take it off him so that he can "help" with the battle.

sure he can die now. Nobody says that he doesn't cause the death of any of these people after he dies. He could get ressurrected and then cause the death of one of people mentioned. Or he die in such a way that doing so causes the death of one of people mentioned by the oracle. It's even possible that he could become undead somehow and then cause someones death. Anyway, I wouldn't rule out Belkars death at all just because of the other part of the prophecy.