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HMS Invincible
2014-07-18, 06:35 PM
I'm trying to keep ALL my mooks alive as a DM vs PCs to change it up this session. What are cheap ways to do this on a per npc basis? I don't want the party to end up with a bunch of gear. Tier 3 or below ideas only.
To start. Repeating crossbows + run feat.
Concern. Must deal with wizard and mounted PC.
On my phone

Jergmo
2014-07-18, 06:39 PM
Have melee mooks with Blind-Fight, then have the mooks use smokesticks. It makes the horse unable to see, which is more disastrous than the rider being unable to. It also makes it more difficult for the wizard to target for spellcasting.

Sith_Happens
2014-07-18, 06:41 PM
Having Diehard and choosing to go unconscious in the negatives will keep them alive (automatic stabilizing FTW), though it won't keep them from getting looted.

Lightlawbliss
2014-07-18, 06:51 PM
what level are we talking here, what is the caster density/support?

edit: monstrous regeneration (http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/monstrous-regeneration--1618/)+favor of the martyr (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/favor-martyr--4479/)+fire immunity+acid immunity would really make sure they stay alive, though I would be careful with using it.

jedipotter
2014-07-18, 07:08 PM
Potions even if each mook only has one, they can be a big help. Mage armor, barkskin, aid, magic weapon, bulls strength, endure elements, the list is endless.

Feats go for defensive ones. Forget weapon focus, improved reflexes can keep them alive at least a round longer. As can diehard.

Levels Give them a level or two in a class, any class.

Animals a classic trick. Give each mook a pet dog. It hardly changes the encounter, but it is one more target.

Flickerdart
2014-07-18, 07:16 PM
Don't waste feats on Run - any round the mooks aren't attacking is a round the PCs don't care about them. Also, don't bother with defensive feats - if the mooks are getting hit, you failed. Potions are also a waste of time, unless the mooks have a way of knowing the PCs will be coming minutes ahead of time.

Instead, adopt standard skirmish tactics. Ambush the PCs from range, and use terrain to slow down their advance. The mooks should have a means of movement that ignores this terrain (if you can't swing a flying mount, the feat Brachiate can work). Take advantage of numbers - a double line of crossbowmen can mount a firing retreat, one row firing while the other reloads and steps back (this also reduces action advantage, meaning that you can make a bigger encounter without risking TPK). For bonus points, have the projectiles be what slows the PCs down.

Mounted archers are a classic skirmishing unit. You can also try to combine long reach weapons (awl pikes are nice, but feats and items can boost reach too) with Ride-By Attack and super-fast mounts.

HMS Invincible
2014-07-18, 07:33 PM
what level are we talking here, what is the caster density/support?

edit: monstrous regeneration (http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/monstrous-regeneration--1618/)+favor of the martyr (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/favor-martyr--4479/)+fire immunity+acid immunity would really make sure they stay alive, though I would be careful with using it.

E6, 1 wizard, 1 crusader, 1 swordage/swashbuckler/rogue, 1 cavalier from PF =.=, 1 cleric. They are
The goal is to have the mooks fight reluctantly, tactically retreat when they see they are outclassed, and reengage when they see fit. Preferably when the PCs are trying to rest. I like the diehard + blindfight combo, but does that really work? I thought diehard made you more likely to be killed outright? Or are you saying I should bluff faking dead?

Monstrous regen + fire immunity seems a little too strong for the PCs.

Flicker,

Re: Dm trying to keep mooks alive
Don't waste feats on Run - any round the mooks aren't attacking is a round the PCs don't care about them. Also, don't bother with defensive feats - if the mooks are getting hit, you failed.

Instead, adopt standard skirmish tactics. Ambush the PCs from range, and use terrain to slow down their advance. The mooks should have a means of movement that ignores this terrain (if you can't swing a flying mount, the feat Brachiate can work). Take advantage of numbers - a double line of crossbowmen can mount a firing retreat, one row firing while the other reloads and steps back (this also reduces action advantage, meaning that you can make a bigger encounter without risking TPK). For bonus points, have the projectiles be what slows the PCs down.

Mounted archers are a classic skirmishing unit. You can also try to combine long reach weapons (awl pikes are nice, but feats and items can boost reach too) with Ride-By Attack and super-fast mounts. The purpose isn't to hurt the party from the npc perspective, the background is these are well trained soldiers, but are most likely outmatched against the PCs. So what the npcs will do is to conduct guerrilla warfare, but will scatter in a face to face fight. That said, I'll take the squad of mounted crossbowmen. What's the price or name of projectiles that slow PCs down? Maybe they fire caltrops?
Edit: If the PCs leave any mook that runs away alone, then that's a win in my book. That means they get to live to fight in the second fight.

kkplx
2014-07-18, 08:12 PM
Environmental hazards.

Use fire arrows on strategically placed hay stacks, bonus points if you hide noxious smokesticks in them.
Any kind of "stuff falls on you" trap works really well in urban settings - replace with treestumps in the outsides.
The spell "Spike Growth" takes a DC 23 UMD check to activate and can make an enormous difference in a fight. Almost undetectable, too.

In general total concealment is very, very cheap, and can divide the party for a turn or two - in the meantime focus fire on those not in the smoke.

That aside, potions really are the easiest thing to increase encounter challenge without increasing CR or directly buffing monsters.
You could also add an artificer to their company - even at level one that's 4 +1 enchantments on armor for your mooks.

Bronk
2014-07-18, 09:11 PM
There are magic items they could have that would fake their death, or hide them as an incongruous giant mushroom at will...

HMS Invincible
2014-07-19, 01:18 AM
Environmental hazards.

Use fire arrows on strategically placed hay stacks, bonus points if you hide noxious smokesticks in them.
Any kind of "stuff falls on you" trap works really well in urban settings - replace with treestumps in the outsides.
The spell "Spike Growth" takes a DC 23 UMD check to activate and can make an enormous difference in a fight. Almost undetectable, too.

In general total concealment is very, very cheap, and can divide the party for a turn or two - in the meantime focus fire on those not in the smoke.

That aside, potions really are the easiest thing to increase encounter challenge without increasing CR or directly buffing monsters.
You could also add an artificer to their company - even at level one that's 4 +1 enchantments on armor for your mooks.

I think if there was a ready supply of hidable areas, then the temporary concealment would work great. Like some long grass or shantytowns. Then the mooks could engage, and then retreat when the PCs aren't dying like they thought. I mean it's not hard to handwave faking death...once. After that, there's gonna be a lot of bodies buried without heads or limbs.

jiriku
2014-07-19, 07:51 AM
Obscuring mist and fog cloud will provide concealment and potentially break line of sight, preventing targeting of spells and facilitating retreat.
Grease and web (at chokepoints) or entangle and soften earth and stone will slow advancing PCs, as will nonmagical difficult terrain (think deep sand, heavy undergrowth, shallow bogs, moats, and steep slopes of scree and loose rubble). Feats exist to move more quickly over most of these types of terrain.
Riding a mount will generally enable you to outmaneuver most PCs. Mounts are cheap compared to any sort of magical gear.
Fields of flaming oil tend to discourage opponents. Plus, since the loot (the oil) is on fire, you've just prevented PCs from looting the defense.
A barrier of sharpened stakes can force characters to slow down or risk being injured by the stakes. Caltrops function similarly.
Fighting from behind walls or movable palisades can offer up to a +8 cover bonus to AC and +4 cover bonus to Reflex saves, which greatly increases survival.
Ranks in Tumble and/or feats like Spring Attack and Ride-By Attack enable NPCs to deliver an attack and then move away -- preventing PCs from responding with a full attack.
Feats like Expert Tactician and Vexing Flanker maximize accuracy when fighting in a group; this is valuable since the PCs are likely the be better-defended than their opponents. Flanking tactics in general are a good move.