Some advice with a shifter build

[Frojoe21]

Okay, here is my deal. I have a character in an RL game, and I have a progression set out for him. I'd just like some opinions or potential improvements.

This is what he is at so far:

Male Shifter (Longstride trait) Barbarian 1/Scout 4/Weretouched Master 2 (Pre-WOTC Nerfing)

Abilities (Using 25pt buy) Str 16, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8

Feats: (1st)Expeditious Dodge, (Bonus) Mobility, (3rd) Longstride Elite, Shifter Instincts (6th), Extra Shifter Trait (Razorclaw) (Bonus)

Currently, he has 50ft speed (70 while shifting). The tiger Weretouched trait grants him +2 Str while shifting, So his stats while both raging and shifting total to Str 22, Dex 17, Con 18. Since we just finished a boss fight, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be leveling, taking a third level in WTM to allow me to full attack after a charge.


The plan is to finish off the WTM progression and branch into warshaper, getting all of those tasty benefits. The DM has indicated that the game is not likely to go beyond 15th level, so I am assuming that as my stopping point.

Featwise, I have a couple options:

Raptor School Style: I use my 8th level stat bump to boost my wisdom to fill the prerequisites and because of my characters good jump bonus, that gets me an extra 4 damage per attack.

Powerful Charge: Since my character takes advantage of a high speed and movement based damage bonuses, this seems to be a natural choice. However, it does seem like it can be put off for a little while.

Improved Natural Attack: While shifting (and raging, presumably), my characters claws really only do 1d6+8 damage. Its not that much. By taking this feat and branching into the warshaper progression, the damage will jump to 2d6+Str if memory serves.

That one feat that lets you make a 90 degree turn while charging whose name I can't really remember.

[hr]

Books Allowed:
Core
Eberron CS (Setting material is accepted on a case by case basis)
Complete Series
Draconomicon
Races of Stone/Wild/Eberron
Spell Compedium
Arms and Equipment Guide
Players Handbook 2

Books Forbidden due to nearsightedness or denial of balance:
Tome of Magic Stuff
Tome of Battle Stuff
Anything Psionics related (can't even play a bloody soulknife)

[PinkysBrain]

(can't even play a bloody soulknife)
You should be thankful.

You have an experience penalty, completely out of the question for a playable build IMO.

Ignoring that, you have two wasted feats I would suggest retraining if you can. Razorclaw is far inferior to longtooth (extra attack gains you more than a couple of points of base damage). They are also both unnecessary when you hit WtM 5, since the tiger alternate form comes with claws&bite build in. Mobility should only ever be used as a prerequisite if you have tumble as a class skill.

The feats you have in mind aren't very good. In the short term I would get : extra rage, more shifter feats, power attack & leap attack. In the long term you could think about shocktrooper.

[Tough_Tonka]

When did Weretouched Master get nerfed, and in what article?

[Frojoe21]

You should be thankful.

You have an experience penalty, completely out of the question for a playable build IMO.

Actually, the souknife build was more of a character concept thing. And the DM doesn't enforce the multiclassing rules


Ignoring that, you have two wasted feats I would suggest retraining if you can. Razorclaw is far inferior to longtooth (extra attack gains you more than a couple of points of base damage). They are also both unnecessary when you hit WtM 5, since the tiger alternate form comes with claws&bite build in. Mobility should only ever be used as a prerequisite if you have tumble as a class skill.

Mobility was there because I was planning on taking spring attack under the faulty ruling that you could spring attack off a charge. However, DM changed his mind. In retrospect, yes, longtooth would have been better, but oh well. Live and learn.


The feats you have in mind aren't very good. In the short term I would get : extra rage, more shifter feats, power attack & leap attack. In the long term you could think about shocktrooper.

DM dissallowed leap attack. Extra rage and more shifter feats=good idea. Any particular suggestions?


When did Weretouched Master get nerfed, and in what article?

Errata.

[PinkysBrain]

You say PHB2 is allowed, just retrain those feats (you could come up with some fluff/bs about a spirit quest for the retraining of the claw feat if you find that objectionable).

I would suggest this build at 10th, barb 1/scout 4/wtm 5 with the feats Expeditious Dodge, Iron will, Longstride Elite, Shifter Instincts, extra rage, shifter savagery, extra trait (cliffwalk).

After that there's lots of choices, a 2 level dip (no more) in warshaper is good. If you are still playing at that point I'd go for 2 levels of fighter after the warshaper dip so you can get shocktrooper at 14th.

PS. you are going to be much better off switching to a nice two hander when you get buffed with haste.

[Person_Man]

Male Shifter (Longstride trait) Barbarian 1/Scout 4/Weretouched Master 2 (Pre-WOTC Nerfing)

Not sure why you didn't take Scout 5 for the extra d6 of Skirmish and precious lifesaving Evasion. This looks like a Scout build, after all.

After you pick up a level of Scout, I'd probably head into Warshaper 3 before finishing off Weretouched Master. Warshaper 3 is more powerful.



Feats: (1st)Expeditious Dodge, (Bonus) Mobility, (3rd) Longstride Elite, Shifter Instincts (6th), Extra Shifter Trait (Razorclaw) (Bonus)

Expeditious Dodge, Mobility, Shifter Instincts, and Razorclaw are all lousy feat choices.

Usually Scouts follow the ranged combat feat tree because they're so fragile. But if you want to be on the front line, Power Attack, Extra Rage, Mad Foam Rager (PHBII), Improved Skirmish (Complete Scoundrel), and Mageslayer (remember, you get reach from Warshaper 3) would all be good choices.

[PinkysBrain]

Person_man ... no offense, but you obviously have no idea how the shifter and the weretouched master work.

[Person_Man]

Person_man ... no offense, but you obviously have no idea how the shifter and the weretouched master work.

Pinky, instead of just dismissing my advice, I believe it would be more helpful and polite if you posted on the substance of something I wrote. That way we can argue about the rules, and not each other. If I'm wrong about something in the rules or if you can provide an alternative build that is stronger then the suggestions I've provided, then I will concede the point. But I can't reasonably defend myself against the charge of "you obviously have no idea" except to ask you not to make ad hominem attacks.

[Were-Sandwich]

Shifter Ferocity/Savagery, I can't remember which. Gives you increased natural attack damage and some other bonuses whilst raging and shifting.

[PinkysBrain]

I could be more polite, and you could be more honest by addressing what I said. I'll explain, but it doesn't really benefit anyone ... the OP already understands how the shifter and the WtM work, and you aren't playing one.

Weretouched master 3 gives pounce. After that 4 gives a shifter feat he desperately needs (see below) and 5 gives +12 strength, +4 dex, +6 con, claws and a bite attack and a size increase.

The shifting feats are not taken purely for their individual benefits, they are taken so you can consistently shift. The number of times you can shift per day depends on the number you have and once or twice is just not enough. If you are going to take the WtM route at all you need to devote a lot of feats to shifting feats, if you do that you will be hurting as long as the WtM benefits (3rd&5th) have not kicked in yet (because the feats suck). Delaying WtM levels is never a good idea ... especially not for a +5 increase in reach.

[Person_Man]

Having internalized the nerfed version into my memory, I'd forgotten how large the stat bonuses for Weretouched Master were. So yes, you are right that he should continue with WTM.

But Warshaper 3 doesn't just give you reach. It gives you Immunity to Crit and Stun, +1 Size bonus to damage with natural weapons, +4 Str and Con, and +5 reach. Nothing to sneeze at. And I suggested taking 1 additional level of Scout because Barb 1/Scout 4/WTM 2 looks like a Scout/Skillmonkey-ish build to me. One additional level of Scout would give him +1d6 Skirmish (excellent synergy with Pounce), Evasion, and more Skills. If he wanted to be a front line meatshield, Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Barb 2/WTM X or something similar would have been a superior idea.