AvatarVecna
2014-07-19, 06:58 AM
So, I took this question to the general Q&A board, but the answer I got seemed a bit off. Since I don't want any issues with the moderators for debating RAW/RAI, I thought Id make the question into it's own thread. Other questions have presented themselves as well, so I'll include them.
Thunderous Throw (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, you build up incredible tension as you ready yourself to throw your weapon, which becomes visible around you like heat waves. When you release your weapon, that power rushes out with your weapon. As a swift action, you can choose to treat your ranged attack rolls with thrown weapons as melee attacks for the rest of your turn. You use your melee attack bonus, including Strength bonus, feats, and so forth, to determine your attack bonus for each attack as normal, but you apply the standard modifiers for range penalties. Attacking into melee, through cover, and so forth incurs the standard penalties. In addition, you can apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage if you wield the thrown weapon with two hands, and you can use Power Attack with your thrown weapon attacks (adding two times the number subtracted from attack rolls as a bonus on damage rolls when throwing a twohanded weapon).
The Bloodstorm Blade class ability Thunderous Throw (detailed above) allows the PC to spend a swift action to make all ranged attacks with thrown weapons for the rest of the round count as melee attacks. It does NOT say you use your melee roll for ranged attacks, it says you make ranged attacks into melee attacks. So, let's say a Bloodstorm Blade has gained the pounce ability.
Question 1:
Can I charge or pounce with thrown weapons?
Anybody can charge; they take a full round action to double move and make a single melee attack at a +2 attack and a -2 AC. Someone with the pounce ability can full attack at the end of their charge. Under the normal rules, this means that, since you can mix melee and ranged attacks in a full attack, that under the normal rules, you can pounce, make a single melee attack and the rest are ranged. It should be noted that the charge ability does not require you to be adjacent to the enemy you're attacking; it requires you to move to the closest square that you can attack the opponent from.
Since, with Thunderous Throw, all thrown weapon ranged attacks count as melee attacks, I don't see why I can't.
Question 2:
What feats apply to my thrown weapons while using Thunderous Throw?
According to Thunderous Throw (detailed above), melee-specific feats can be used with thrown weapons. It even mentions Power Attack specifically. So something like Melee Weapon Mastery can work. My question is more about other feats: things like Far Shot and Rapid Shot and Ranged Weapon Mastery. Are those still in effect? The text seems to imply that they're not, since you're not making ranged attack rolls anymore; you're making melee attacks with a range increment. On the other hand, certain ranged-only penalties still apply to these attacks, implying that, in certain ways, they still function as ranged attacks. Thoughts?
Question 3:
By RAW, can I make AoOs within throwing range?
By RAW, you can make an AoO whenever someone moves out of, or performs a distracting action within, your threatened area, as long as you're wielding a melee weapon. Thunderous Throw lets you count them as melee attacks, but not melee weapon; on the other hand, Bloodstorm Blade also gives you the Throw Anything feat, allowing you to count all weapons as thrown weapons, including melee only weapons. Furthermore, this is almost entirely moot if Thunderous Throw doesn't last beyond the end of your actions: the text doesn't say "until the end of your turn" or "until the beginning of your next turn", it says "for the rest of your turn" without specifying when exactly that would end. I don't know how applicable this would be to my build, and I'm not exactly counting on it, but I'd appreciate the clarification.
All responses are appreciated. Thanks!
Thunderous Throw (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, you build up incredible tension as you ready yourself to throw your weapon, which becomes visible around you like heat waves. When you release your weapon, that power rushes out with your weapon. As a swift action, you can choose to treat your ranged attack rolls with thrown weapons as melee attacks for the rest of your turn. You use your melee attack bonus, including Strength bonus, feats, and so forth, to determine your attack bonus for each attack as normal, but you apply the standard modifiers for range penalties. Attacking into melee, through cover, and so forth incurs the standard penalties. In addition, you can apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage if you wield the thrown weapon with two hands, and you can use Power Attack with your thrown weapon attacks (adding two times the number subtracted from attack rolls as a bonus on damage rolls when throwing a twohanded weapon).
The Bloodstorm Blade class ability Thunderous Throw (detailed above) allows the PC to spend a swift action to make all ranged attacks with thrown weapons for the rest of the round count as melee attacks. It does NOT say you use your melee roll for ranged attacks, it says you make ranged attacks into melee attacks. So, let's say a Bloodstorm Blade has gained the pounce ability.
Question 1:
Can I charge or pounce with thrown weapons?
Anybody can charge; they take a full round action to double move and make a single melee attack at a +2 attack and a -2 AC. Someone with the pounce ability can full attack at the end of their charge. Under the normal rules, this means that, since you can mix melee and ranged attacks in a full attack, that under the normal rules, you can pounce, make a single melee attack and the rest are ranged. It should be noted that the charge ability does not require you to be adjacent to the enemy you're attacking; it requires you to move to the closest square that you can attack the opponent from.
Since, with Thunderous Throw, all thrown weapon ranged attacks count as melee attacks, I don't see why I can't.
Question 2:
What feats apply to my thrown weapons while using Thunderous Throw?
According to Thunderous Throw (detailed above), melee-specific feats can be used with thrown weapons. It even mentions Power Attack specifically. So something like Melee Weapon Mastery can work. My question is more about other feats: things like Far Shot and Rapid Shot and Ranged Weapon Mastery. Are those still in effect? The text seems to imply that they're not, since you're not making ranged attack rolls anymore; you're making melee attacks with a range increment. On the other hand, certain ranged-only penalties still apply to these attacks, implying that, in certain ways, they still function as ranged attacks. Thoughts?
Question 3:
By RAW, can I make AoOs within throwing range?
By RAW, you can make an AoO whenever someone moves out of, or performs a distracting action within, your threatened area, as long as you're wielding a melee weapon. Thunderous Throw lets you count them as melee attacks, but not melee weapon; on the other hand, Bloodstorm Blade also gives you the Throw Anything feat, allowing you to count all weapons as thrown weapons, including melee only weapons. Furthermore, this is almost entirely moot if Thunderous Throw doesn't last beyond the end of your actions: the text doesn't say "until the end of your turn" or "until the beginning of your next turn", it says "for the rest of your turn" without specifying when exactly that would end. I don't know how applicable this would be to my build, and I'm not exactly counting on it, but I'd appreciate the clarification.
All responses are appreciated. Thanks!