Extreme Lawful

[Pinkcrusade]

Greetings, Playground.

So, I had a character concept I would like to bring to fruition, and I was looking for some ideas/advice on advancing with this concept. It is a character of the lawful persuasion, not concerning himself with the morality of life (good and evil), and his goal is to reform the Material Plane into something like that of Mechanus, making it a utopia of law and order. An interesting side of this though is that he has received visions of this "utopia" from some divine being, and part of this is the elimination of any who threaten his vision (think high chaos creatures, like orcs). So, why I come to you is for any ideas pertaining on how he could go about making this "new world", and how a character of this alignment would carry out this. I was thinking of going Warblade/War Hulk (based off of this http://imagizer.imageshack.us/scaled/landing/844/29712030.jpg and this http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101216072152/finalfantasy/images/3/39/DissidiaGabranthArt.png as his armor/appearance).

Any suggestions or ideas are welcomed.

Thanks.

PS: I started creating this character of a quote of Garrosh Hellscream (though not Chaotic, like he is). The segment I am discussing is 9:22-9:40 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jQYObKTIG8.

[AMFV]

Greetings, Playground.

So, I had a character concept I would like to bring to fruition, and I was looking for some ideas/advice on advancing with this concept. It is a character of the lawful persuasion, not concerning himself with the morality of life (good and evil), and his goal is to reform the Material Plane into something like that of Mechanus, making it a utopia of law and order. An interesting side of this though is that he has received visions of this "utopia" from some divine being, and part of this is the elimination of any who threaten his vision (think high chaos creatures, like orcs). So, why I come to you is for any ideas pertaining on how he could go about making this "new world", and how a character of this alignment would carry out this. I was thinking of going Warblade/War Hulk (based off of this http://imagizer.imageshack.us/scaled/landing/844/29712030.jpg and this http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101216072152/finalfantasy/images/3/39/DissidiaGabranthArt.png as his armor/appearance).

Any suggestions or ideas are welcomed.

Thanks.

PS: I started creating this character of a quote of Garrosh Hellscream (though not Chaotic, like he is). The segment I am discussing is 9:22-9:40 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jQYObKTIG8.

Well a lawful character is very likely to be extremely regimented in his outlook, and would act in slow sure ways that are well proven. You are less likely to be innovative (Chaos is the stuff of creation) and more likely to be stagnant. As far as roleplaying him, it would depend, there is quite a variety of law, if he's trying to bring Mechanus to the Prime Material, he might be very interested in learning how to construct something like Clockwork Horrors, since they perform that sort of function. I'd be inclined to suggest Effigy Master, but I don't think it matches your concept very well. What are you looking for mechanically? At what level and optimization range are you wanting this?

[Pinkcrusade]

Hey. So, he isn't actually associated with Mechanus, he just desires the level of law that is found on that plane. A melee character would be desirable, and I was intending him to be at a high optimization level; I would like him to be able to deal with any of his races that pose a problem to him

[AMFV]

Hey. So, he isn't actually associated with Mechanus, he just desires the level of law that is found on that plane. A melee character would be desirable, and I was intending him to be at a high optimization level; I would like him to be able to deal with any of his races that pose a problem to him

For evil Melee converter, Psi-War into Thrallherd is my go-to theme. You get followers who would have have heard your stories of the truth of the Mechanical reality and of law, and they're expendable. You're good at Melee, courtesy of being a Psi-War. Or alternatively you could go Warmind into Thrallherd from something else. That way you could do the whole crazy conversion bit, and have the forces to manage it. Warmind is excellent melee as well and synergizes well with quite a few other classes, so you can have many different entry points.

[Pinkcrusade]

I would prefer to avoid Psionics because I have recently played a Psionic character. The Thrallherd idea is good, though. Are Warblades capable of dishing out considerable damage with some optimization? Also, I don't necessarily need leadership, as it isn't so much converting but forcibly changing

Thanks

[AMFV]

I would prefer to avoid Psionics because I have recently played a Psionic character. The Thrallherd idea is good, though. Are Warblades capable of dishing out considerable damage with some optimization?

Thanks

Well you need some Psionics to qualify for Thrallherd. But Warmind has a very limited scope (I think you may even need Expanded Knowledge to qualify). But it's still a workable build you can make the main focus something other than Psionics.

[Pinkcrusade]

What would you recommend for something without Thrallherd? I don't envision him as a Thrallherd. I was thinking a Warblade, perhaps.

[AMFV]

What would you recommend for something without Thrallherd? I don't envision him as a Thrallherd. I was thinking a Warblade, perhaps.

Well nothing else that comes to mind with the idea of converting the world. That's the sort of thing that a charismatic cult leader would shoot for, that's why I was suggesting that. My suggestion would be Warblade 5/Warmind X/Thrallherd X/Whatever, that way you'd get the advanced leadership for converting the world. Crusader with a focus on law might work too, but there's not really a lot fluffwise that fits what you're going for in ToB. Dragon has a Paladin of Law in one of their issues 309 or 313 I believe, that works for that.

[Pinkcrusade]

My original idea for the character wasn't so much to be a part of an organization, but to remove races and enforce extreme law where he ventures. If anybody has ideas that could enhance this concept, please post them


Thanks for the help thus far

[Vhaidara]

I think you would do just fine with Warblade. Grab Leadership for an army of those you've converted, put points into Diplomacy, and focus on White Raven and Diamond Mind maneuvers, with Iron Heart as a third option.

Visually, I recommend Warforged. It fits why he likes Mechanus, and I think it would fit your images.

[SinsI]

My original idea for the character wasn't so much to be a part of an organization, but to remove races and enforce extreme law where he ventures. If anybody has ideas that could enhance this concept, please post them

If he is not a part of an organization, then most forms of law are inapplicable, because most laws are creation of organizations.
That leaves only one form of law that he can enforce: he can punish oathbreakers and those that break agreements.

[Pinkcrusade]

Instead of being a part of an organization (as you stated is required to enforce laws), couldn't he view that overwhelming Chaos = no Law, and overwhelming Law = no Chaos, so if he was to remove Chaos from the world (I capitalize it because D&D considers it a cosmic trait), he would have a world of Law? That is why I was including the "removal" of races, because if there is less Chaos in the world, Law would become more prominent (due to the absence of Chaos). The reason I brought up optimization was because he needs to be capable of actually eliminating Chaos (see: genocide of orcs and such) from the world (in a very zealot-like way)

[jiriku]

A world in which most chaotic races had been murdered by a one-man holocaust would probably be mildly Lawful and Evil-aligned, if it changed at all. More likely, Chaotic deities would get annoyed with you and tell their faithful that the first person to bring your decapitated head back to the temple would receive a super-spiffy afterlife. With a price like that on your head, your life would become... interesting. :smallbiggrin:

Generally, isolated warriors who claim no allegiances and who engage in vigilante justice and quixotic campaigns of genocide are considered Chaotic Evil, or Neutral Evil at best. I think your guy needs a new plan. Specifically a plan that involves becoming the despotic absolute dictator of as large a territory as possible, then smothering it in bureaucracy. You can't shift an entire plane's alignment just by eliminating the people who oppose you. You also have to get people to think like you do, and act like you do. If you don't do that, the vast majority of the population will still be lukewarm about Law and you're not going to get a shift.

[Pinkcrusade]

How would you suggest obtaining this large quantity to rule over? Start small and eventually build up?

As for the one-man holocaust, it might not be effective (and the chances that somebody much more powerful could come after him is high, as you said), what do you think would be the best way to be this genocide machine? I was thinking perhaps a Lancer on a Dragon, though I am not sure what type of dragon would match my alignment type.

[AMFV]

How would you suggest obtaining this large quantity to rule over? Start small and eventually build up?

As for the one-man holocaust, it might not be effective (and the chances that somebody much more powerful could come after him is high, as you said), what do you think would be the best way to be this genocide machine? I was thinking perhaps a Lancer on a Dragon, though I am not sure what type of dragon would match my alignment type.

Well the issue I'm having is that you seem to be more looking for the melee monster with the alignment thing being a sidenote. And it's certainly not a bad thing conceptually, but I'm not sure if I could give advice till I know for sure if I'm correct. So do you want the alignment thing to be a significant part of the mechanics of your character?

PS - Gem Dragons are what you're looking for, I don't remember which ones are LN but there is one that is.

Edit: Also LN Incarnate might be a good bet, but I'm not sure how melee monster that is.

[Pinkcrusade]

Hello. Mechanically, I would like to see his alignment play a part (much like you mentioned with his stagnant tactics), and thank you for the Gem Dragon suggestion.

[Melayl]

Edit: Also LN Incarnate might be a good bet, but I'm not sure how melee monster that is.

Seconded. Incarnates are all about one aspect of alignment.

[AMFV]

Hello. Mechanically, I would like to see his alignment play a part (much like you mentioned with his stagnant tactics), and thank you for the Gem Dragon suggestion.

Incarnate sounds like your best bet.

Here is a handy handbook: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=ibj3k49qt6ot19sgbme50upie5&topic=6920.0

[jiriku]

Three general approaches for class, if you want an alignment-themed character who stomps face:
incarnate
paladin of tyranny
cleric

All of these options are pretty complicated, since paladin requires lots of ACF-swapping to become useful, incarnate requires learning the incarnum system, and cleric requires mastering the building of a combat caster. But they can all work.

In terms of acquiring the territory and leading the masses, that's really going to fall out of your roleplaying and in-game actions, rather than game mechanics. Let the DM know that you want the story to go that way, and take any opportunities that you see. Mechanically, A strong Diplomacy modifier will help you persuade people, and Intimidate may be useful as well. A decent Charisma supports these skills. Conveniently for you, all three of the classes above have some use for Charisma.