Is this encounter too difficult

[FabulousFizban]

I have had an idea for an encounter that I have wanted to use for a while. I was going to wait until the party was level 3, but I sort of ran out of ideas and dropped the set up to it this week. The party is level 2.

Basically, a mad scientist is abducting cows and trying to turn them into frankenstein monsters. The final encounter is an undead cow (minotaur) being animated by the scientist's machines that attacks the party. While the scientist pulls levers and turns wheels from the safety of a faraday cage, the undead horror attacks the party.

The minotaur is already a CR4, a tough fight for level 2, but there are two additional factors for the combat that have me a little worried.

1) As undead, I'm giving it DR 5/bludgeoning. 2) Also, in the chamber are two large tesla coils that pump electricity into the creature granting it fast healing 10. The machines can be destroyed to negate the fast healing (each one destroyed reduces fast healing by 5)

tldr; So, is a CR4 Minotaur with DR5/bludgeoning and fast healing 10 (circumstantial) too much for a level 2 party.


(I was thinking of having the electric beams from the tesla coil connect to the minotaur and have them deal electric damage on a failed reflex save if a player moves through them, which adds a battlefield hazard element. Your thoughts?)

[atomicwaffle]

how big is the party, what classes/races are they, how good are the players, and how optimized are they?

[facelessminion]

This sounds more like a neat challenge for level four to five, not levels where the minotaur will be pretty much oneshotting chumps.

[fryplink]

What the guy above said. To take it a step further though, how do you expect the party to handle the combat? Do your players always go for the direct combat, or do they handle encounters indirectly? Do they have any advantages, or even habits, that will help them with the combat? I guess I am suggesting that you imagine the fight. You already recognize it'll be a tough fight, so ask yourself "how will the party win this" or "what can the party do to win this"?

[Spore]

Make sure your scientist has Wis 7 and blurts out that "they can't kill the creature as it is kept alive with the machines". You really REALLY need to convey the info that the machine is generating the fast healing. The fight is fine with the right tactics (the group has superior action economy) but I would activate your tesla effect if you see that they can deal with the Minotaur on their own easily.

Make your scientist pull some switches to get the energy supply from life preservation to the tesla coil and fire off 3d6 Lightning bolts (as the druid spell) with a moderate DC. It's no weapon but a repurposed scientific tool. DC 12 would suffice.

[FabulousFizban]

how big is the party, what classes/races are they, how good are the players, and how optimized are they?

currently a magus, a summoner, and a bard, but I should have two more players for next week - one of them super experienced, with a habit of building munchkins, but not actually using his munchkin powers unless the party is in dire need.


This sounds more like a neat challenge for level four to five, not levels where the minotaur will be pretty much oneshotting chumps.

My thoughts as well. I may just have to retcon what I said and do something different next week (and rush them through 2 levels so I can use this :D

EDIT: two of my players really like DPR. Their tactics... aren't great.

[nyjastul69]

How difficult is it to destroy the machines?

[FabulousFizban]

How difficult is it to destroy the machines?

not terribly, i was going to give them like 20 hit points. Or 10 with some hardness. The party could also pick the lock on the steel cage and force the scientist to call off his monster. There are options.

EDIT: thought about making the machines explode as a AoE as well, but I would wait til they are higher level if I was going to incorporate that.

[Vhaidara]

Maybe give it the zombie's weaknesses, namely the half actions. This would make the fast healing less punishing (DR and fast healing pretty much disable kiting at this level), and allow you to have more fun things (I like the lightning lines idea)

[nyjastul69]

Looking at this from a player perspective, I wouldn't bother with the monster or the machines. I would go straight for the dude in the cage. The cages stats will be more important than the machines or minotaur's I'll bet.

[Diachronos]

Make sure your scientist has Wis 7 and blurts out that "they can't kill the creature as it is kept alive with the machines". You really REALLY need to convey the info that the machine is generating the fast healing. The fight is fine with the right tactics (the group has superior action economy) but I would activate your tesla effect if you see that they can deal with the Minotaur on their own easily.

Make your scientist pull some switches to get the energy supply from life preservation to the tesla coil and fire off 3d6 Lightning bolts (as the druid spell) with a moderate DC. It's no weapon but a repurposed scientific tool. DC 12 would suffice.

I second those ideas, though I'd probably consider waiting a few rounds before dropping the hint. Maybe have the players make Perception/Spellcraft checks with a decent DC to notice that the tesla coils are healing him, and if they fail to notice after the time limit passes the scientist would drop the hint.

If you're concerned with the minotaur being too powerful, maybe consider giving him the staggered condition like a zombie. It won't necessarily drop his damage output, but at the very least the party can spread out to help keep him from moving and squashing somebody in one turn.

[Jermz]

This seems difficult to me, at least for a level 2 party. Even with the two additional players, they might find it hard to overcome both fast healing: 10 and the DR, especially as it seems they don't have any direct damage dealer. PCs are pretty squishy at 2nd level, though admittedly, I don't know much about pathfinder and it looks like the summoner might have a decent amount of HP.

I second the thought of lowering/forgoing both the fast healing and the DR. How many HP is the minotaur statted out to? How do YOU think that the party will fare? In your mind's eye, the way that the encounter is currently set up and knowing how the party runs, what do you think they'll do?

[FabulousFizban]

This seems difficult to me, at least for a level 2 party. Even with the two additional players, they might find it hard to overcome both fast healing: 10 and the DR, especially as it seems they don't have any direct damage dealer. PCs are pretty squishy at 2nd level, though admittedly, I don't know much about pathfinder and it looks like the summoner might have a decent amount of HP.

I second the thought of lowering/forgoing both the fast healing and the DR. How many HP is the minotaur statted out to? How do YOU think that the party will fare? In your mind's eye, the way that the encounter is currently set up and knowing how the party runs, what do you think they'll do?

minotaur has 45 HP. Maguses are damage machines. DPR is their whole game.

I like the staggered idea.

What will the party do? The magus will go straight for the monster. The summoner will send his eidolon in to soak up damage then buff & try to figure out the elements of the fight, the bard will go straight for the scientist and forget he isn't playing his rogue and cannot pick that lock... then throw daggers inside the cage.

one player is very aggro, one is very cautious, and one does crazy go for broke nonsense - like bull rush the guy controlling the net he is in off a ledge.

How do I think the party will fair? I think they'll pull a comefrombehind victory out of their asses that defies all logic, like they always do. The magus rolled three 20s in a row on my boss fight tonight.

[Vhaidara]

You mentioned 2 more players. Any idea what they're bringing?

[FabulousFizban]

You mentioned 2 more players. Any idea what they're bringing?

my munchkin friend will most likely play a wizard, optimized for initiative and battlefield control. The other guy is completely new, so I have no idea. I think I suggested a cleric at some point, but I tend to be pretty laissez faire about whatever they want to do.

And I try to cover their deficiencies so they can have fun. I had the bard find a wand of CLW right away when they decided on these characters.

[Vhaidara]

I might even tank the thing up a bit. Perhaps make it so that if it takes electrical damage, its fast healing spikes up he next round by half of the amount done, and the things on its back shoot out electricity as they overload, damaging adjacent creatures.

[FabulousFizban]

I might even tank the thing up a bit. Perhaps make it so that if it takes electrical damage, its fast healing spikes up he next round by half of the amount done, and the things on its back shoot out electricity as they overload, damaging adjacent creatures.

that would be cruel, since my magus primarily uses shocking grasp. Also hilarious. I figured he would just be immune to electricity.

[Vhaidara]

I've built a magus before, so I figured he would be. I was just thinking like 1/5 electrical damage for the retaliation, not the full damage he dealt. So it would only be 1 or 2 points, but it's something different.

[FabulousFizban]

I've built a magus before, so I figured he would be. I was just thinking like 1/5 electrical damage for the retaliation, not the full damage he dealt. So it would only be 1 or 2 points, but it's something different.

ah! that's... actually pretty cool. Could be a good alternative to the fast healing actually.