Houserule: Spellcasting Prestige Classes advance martial class features?

[Cowardly Griffo]

So I've lately noticed that there are quite a lot of prestige classes that have no spellcasting prerequisite, yet still have a column with "+1 level of existing spellcasting class" printed several times. And I think, that doesn't seem right. I mean, it's fine for spellcasters who want to take the classes; they're making something of a more even trade, since they still get to continue improving at their main role in a limited capacity, but martial classes get nothing.

So to remedy this, I propose the following houserule: when you take a prestige class which allows you to advance spellcasting, you can instead choose to advance the main feature of a non-casting base class to which you belonged before entering the prestige class at any level which increases spellcasting. I wouldn't be surprised if this idea has been proposed before, but I in my ignorance have not seen it.

I almost also want to grant a way for martial classes to count their class features as an effective caster level for the purposes of prestige class entry, as I recall spotting a few PrCs aimed primarily at casters with abilities that a martial class might find helpful, or at least kind of cool.

Anyway, the relevant features are listed by base class. As I'm just kind of spitballing this right now, I'm starting with just the core rulebook and ToB, and I foresee this list getting changed and/or expanded if the basic idea is sound. Monk is the one I'm least certain on, as their abilities are kind of all over the place.


Rogue: Sneak Attack, and effective Rogue level for the purposes of (Improved) Uncanny Dodge.

Fighter: Bonus Feats, and effective Fighter Level for the purposes of feat selection.

Barbarian: Rage, and all improvements thereto.

Monk: Unarmed Damage, Flurry of Blows, AC Bonus and Ki Strike.

Swordsage, Warblade, Crusader: Stances and Maneuvers known and readied, as well as Initiator Level.



Thoughts?

[eggynack]

The basic idea is reasonable, but the issue is that most classes that advance casting are, y'know, good for casters, rather than melee folk. Fighter/incantatrix isn't exactly the most useful setup. This rule is thus pretty limited to gishes. I would consider tossing the phrase onto some melee prestige classes, thus just providing them with big upgrades. As for your advancement setup, the fighter one seems problematic, as it leaves you with a lot of strictly better situations, at least if you provide full progressions. Might not be the worst thing though, especially if you expect fighters to make use of ACF's, and double-especially if you otherwise expect fighters to take the traditional multi-classing route.

[Cowardly Griffo]

The Incantatrix wouldn't really qualify, though, until/unless that optional idea to give martial classes an effective caster level were expanded upon, which is something that I'm not really looking at.

At the core, without getting into the further hacking mentioned above, I'm talking about classes like, say, Fortune's Friend. A rogue or swashbuckler would get a lot more use out of that class than a wizard, and it has no spellcasting prerequisite, yet it advances spellcasting. That's the kind of situation that doesn't make sense to me, and what I'm aiming to "fix," if I may use that word.

As for effectively giving fighters "strictly better" options, I have two counterpoints:
1. Most of the classes which advance spellcasting do not have full BAB, which is kind of a big deal for fighters.
2. Most prestige classes offer "strictly better" options for Wizards, no? Outside of spellcasting, their class features are minimal, while prestige classes open up a lot more non-spell-centric options for them.

Basically, I want martial classes to be able to retain and advance... let's say the same basic percentage of their class features as casters do when they take a prestige class. When a Wizard prestiges, he generally becomes a Wizard+, retaining most of the things that make him a Wizard. When a Fighter prestiges, he generally stops advancing as a Fighter and starts advancing along an entirely different path. Which can be nice, but I'd rather there were more same-core-direction options for martial classes.

[eggynack]

Eh, it still feels kinda awkward, not just doing this from the ground up. I mean, sure, you could always turn some casting prestige classes into mundane/casting prestige classes, but for the most part, I feel like the best bet is just giving some prestige classes an upgrade. Maybe start with some of the weaker prestige classes, to test it out, but if you're in a reasonably high powered game, then you could always just go all out with few consequences. You could even vary progression based on the tier system for prestige classes.

[Cowardly Griffo]

That seems like a lot of trouble, though. I'm not looking to rework the entire prestige class system; I'm just whipping up a quick fix what I perceive to be a bug in a small number of prestige classes. Said bug is that they are already designed to be entered by both martial and caster classes, without any effort on my part, but only benefit casters.

That said, thanks for the input; we just seem to be talking past one another and addressing different issues.

[eggynack]

That seems like a lot of trouble, though. I'm not looking to rework the entire prestige class system; I'm just whipping up a quick fix what I perceive to be a bug in a small number of prestige classes. Said bug is that they are already designed to be entered by both martial and caster classes, without any effort on my part, but only benefit casters.
I don't really see how this is reworking anything. Take an arbitrary martial prestige class. Let's say horizon walker, cause it's neat. Then, write a bunch of "+1 martial"'s next to all of the existing class features. Boom, fix done. Even versions where you'd separate by tier aren't that complicated. For the sake of argument, let's say +2 martial classes get half progression, +1's get 2/3's, and +0 and less get full progression. So, horizon walker is listed at -1 for some reason (not really sure I agree, but whatever), so they get full progression, while champion of gwynharwyf is a +2 PrC, so it gets half progression. Simple and easy.

If you well define which classes qualify for advancement, then you can even apply the same rule in exactly the same way to the casting classes without serious issues. Fortune's friend is a +0, so it gets full progression. Even better than what you have now, in other words, and likely fairly so. If you want to do it in your specific way, then that's entirely your prerogative, but the way I'm proposing wouldn't be very complicated at all (maybe you'd work in some different advancements than those I listed, but it's a trivial change), and it'd represent a rule that better aligns with current melee class incentives.