Progression post Dirgesinger

[Dominuce2112]

I am planning on going bard5/dirgesinger5 soon in my low level campaign (able learner and flaw allow for the early entry),

I like the concept of my undead, debuffing bard playing the swan song of the creatures he slays (and later raises). With haunting melody and doomspeak I have a decent amount of debuffing.

However, I dont know what to do after that.I want to keep with the dark, undead, debuffing theme but there arent really any other classes that fit that AND keep my bard abilities up to par.

I know there is a bardic practiced spellcaster in a DM so I should be able to take another class, as long as it fits with the theme.

Any ideas? No preference on spellcaster/martial since we have a pretty balanced group. My backup plans are hexblade or warchanter but hexblade gets a lot better with 10+ levels and warchanter would bring my guy down a story path that im still working out (undead leadership, mini army with me buffing them) and veers away from the dark debuff theme I am trying to stick to.

Oh and a little backstory. I was a changeling bard that got kidnapped and killed by the church of the undead god and raised as a bonesinger. I escaped but vowed to avenge my undeath and stop this from happening again. So being undead and out for vengeance is a huge driving force.

[Cowardly Griffo]

I'm not familiar with the Bonesinger, but it sounds from the name like you might have some kind of innate sonic abilities? If so, you might want to look at the Siren from Savage Species. It doesn't actually stack with the levels you have for bardic performance, but it does give you some nice debuffing options which you can add onto any innate sonic abilities you might possess. If your GM is kind, you may be able to convince them to allow you to apply those effects to your bardic performance and/or use bardic performance to qualify for the class if you don't have any innate sonic abilities.

Alternatively, there's the Dread Witch from Heroes of Horror. Again, it doesn't advance your bardic performance, but it does advance your bardic spellcasting, and it lets you be very scary.

[Dominuce2112]

I'm not familiar with the Bonesinger, but it sounds from the name like you might have some kind of innate sonic abilities? If so, you might want to look at the Siren from Savage Species. It doesn't actually stack with the levels you have for bardic performance, but it does give you some nice debuffing options which you can add onto any innate sonic abilities you might possess. If your GM is kind, you may be able to convince them to allow you to apply those effects to your bardic performance and/or use bardic performance to qualify for the class if you don't have any innate sonic abilities.

Alternatively, there's the Dread Witch from Heroes of Horror. Again, it doesn't advance your bardic performance, but it does advance your bardic spellcasting, and it lets you be very scary.

Bonesinger is a template from ghost walk that allows me to be undead, bonus to perform (due to nitches cut in my bones before i was raised an an unnatural wind) and a "wind of death" that is basically a nauseating gust of wind. I could make the sound thing work tho, I really like working off that template. Thanks for the info!

holy **** Siren might be perfect!!!

[Cowardly Griffo]

That reaction brings a :smallsmile: to my face. Happy to help!

[Dominuce2112]

That reaction brings a :smallsmile: to my face. Happy to help!

gah right when i got my hopes up he said bard music doesnt count as a sonic ability. Do you know of any ways that would give me one?? Templates, feats?

I did find a savage progression for it. it would cost me 2 levels but give me a frightful moan..what a story to play. Sternum has lead a tough life.

[Cowardly Griffo]

Feats wouldn't get the job done, for (roughly) the same reason your GM ruled that bardic music doesn't; you have to have an innate sonic ability to go into the class. Acquired templates would be questionable for similar reasons, depending on your definition of "innate," though inherited templates should be pretty ironclad for qualification purposes.

How married are you to being a changeling?

[Dominuce2112]

Feats wouldn't get the job done, for (roughly) the same reason your GM ruled that bardic music doesn't; you have to have an innate sonic ability to go into the class. Acquired templates would be questionable for similar reasons, depending on your definition of "innate," though inherited templates should be pretty ironclad for qualification purposes.

How married are you to being a changeling?

Its already been used pretty heavily while role playing. And for the early Dirgesinger access I need the feat 'Able Learner'.

So far, the only solution I can find is the savage progression of the ghost template. It would give me a "sonic, necromantic, mind-affecting, fear effect" in fightful moan. The weird part is it would really fit into my story line. As an experiment of a god of the undead, I could just say there was a second stage to the experiment and turn into a ghost. The only thing I am hesitant about tho is the battle mechanics and issues with being a ghost. I mean they can still hear my music, and I am sure I can get ahold of a Ethereal Reaper (complete psionics version) but it may come with a lot of headaches (and as much as I as the player love the idea [especially since ill be able to tie him into my higher level/thousands of years later campaign] role-playing wise, my character would hate it)

[Cowardly Griffo]

I'm not sure that an already-undead creature can actually take that template by RAW. At the very least, I think you'd lose the Bonesinger abilities.

Had another idea, though. Have you managed to keep your Changeling shapeshifting special quality after being raised as a bonesinger? As I understand it, it's based on Disguise Self, which means you should be able to disguise yourself as another creature of your same type–in this case, undead. So you may be able to shapeshift into a ghost, and use Assume Supernatural Ability (Frightful Moan) to get the ability.

Again, it's kind of shaky ground as to whether that will qualify as innate or not; it's a feat, but it's also enhancing an innate ability that you have. I'm also not entirely convinced that Changeling shapeshifting is extensive enough to qualify for the feat; it's an actual change rather than an illusory effect, but it's also described as minor changes only (though if you can turn into any humanoid I'm not sure "minor" is a good description, imo).

Also a lot of GMs consider the Assume Supernatural Ability feat to be cheesy, but I think in this limited capacity it might be all right?

I dunno, just throwing it out there as an alternative to taking another template.

[Dominuce2112]

I'm not sure that an already-undead creature can actually take that template by RAW. At the very least, I think you'd lose the Bonesinger abilities.

Had another idea, though. Have you managed to keep your Changeling shapeshifting special quality after being raised as a bonesinger? As I understand it, it's based on Disguise Self, which means you should be able to disguise yourself as another creature of your same type–in this case, undead. So you may be able to shapeshift into a ghost, and use Assume Supernatural Ability (Frightful Moan) to get the ability.

Again, it's kind of shaky ground as to whether that will qualify as innate or not; it's a feat, but it's also enhancing an innate ability that you have. I'm also not entirely convinced that Changeling shapeshifting is extensive enough to qualify for the feat; it's an actual change rather than an illusory effect, but it's also described as minor changes only (though if you can turn into any humanoid I'm not sure "minor" is a good description, imo).

Also a lot of GMs consider the Assume Supernatural Ability feat to be cheesy, but I think in this limited capacity it might be all right?

I dunno, just throwing it out there as an alternative to taking another template.

Yeah, i am expecting to lose the bonesinger template, and I talked to my DM, he said the ghost thing is doable. 2 Levels isnt too bad, and with chaos music Id still get inspire greatness, and 8 levels of siren (basically losing out on aoe flesh to stone/power word kill)

I dont know if hed let that slide. So far ive just been changing humanoid race to humanoid race. Changing into a ghost and getting the ability might be a stretch but ive overcome bigger challenges. Thanks again for all the help!

[Jergmo]

I don't think it would work because ghost is a template. You couldn't, say, morph into a winged human. You could, however, morph into an avariel. So... maybe an allip? Does that count as sonic?