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View Full Version : Art & Warlock Preview on BoingBoing



Ilorin Lorati
2014-07-21, 11:33 AM
http://boingboing.net/2014/07/21/an-exclusive-look-at-the-new-d.html

The art's pretty cool, and I don't think there are any surprises on the Warlock page - not that there's anything significant shown. As always, Wayne Reynolds makes me wonder if he's really using acrylic on board, and the elf looks like she's going to have back problems.

Kaervaslol
2014-07-21, 11:35 AM
I really really like the red dragon piece, very evocative. The others are average

I also like the layout of the Warlock preview, seems the PHB is going to be a looker.

Tholomyes
2014-07-21, 01:30 PM
There's something about the Warlock art that bugs me. I think it's the eyes; they're just too wide, I think. For the most part I like the other art (though I could do without the not-quite-escher-girls pose for the elf), and it looks like, with the elf showing up in multiple pictures from multiple artists, that we're seeing some of the Iconics for the edition. Which is somewhat interesting that the (presumably) Ranger Iconic is a Tiefling, given that they were listed in the last playtest packet as one of the "unusual races" (implying that you'd need DM permission to take one of the races). By making one an iconic, I wonder if that means they've done away with the delineation of "common" and "unusual" races, and rely on the notion that, if a DM wants to ban a race, they'll do so on their own initiative.

rlc
2014-07-21, 03:03 PM
I think the whole "unusual race/class" thing was more of along the lines of "some things might be uncommon, if your DM decides as such, so don't get upset if they do" than anything else. Although, that being said, I don't really see a problem with an unusual race choosing a profession that keeps him away from everybody else.

Psyren
2014-07-21, 03:17 PM
Wayne Reynolds is probably on his third yacht at this point :smalltongue:

Person_Man
2014-07-21, 03:18 PM
Warlock art looks like a goth kid, carrying a pumpkin basket, trick-or-treating. Once you see that, you cannot unsee it.

The other artwork is a mixed bag. The more abstract dragon and wood elf city are nice, whereas everything else feels very cartoonish. But art appreciation is obviously very subjective.

The Warlock gets 5th level spells (using a method different from Wizard and Cleric) + Invocations + Pact Magic (subclass abilities)? Seems like way too many things to juggle, IMO. Balance could be a mess, especially since its Cha based. We'll have to wait and see before passing judgement though. For all we know, it could be 5E's "Tier 3" class option.

StabbityRabbit
2014-07-21, 03:42 PM
I like the new look for bugbears. They look more like goblinoids now.

Also warlock (the class I was most interested in) looks hopelessly complex, and I haven't even seen anything substantial. A new casting mechanic, pact magic, and invocations? Yikes! I hope the class features are simple because this class really doesn't need anymore complexity.

All in all a very meh lineup.

Tholomyes
2014-07-21, 04:36 PM
I like the new look for bugbears. They look more like goblinoids now.

Also warlock (the class I was most interested in) looks hopelessly complex, and I haven't even seen anything substantial. A new casting mechanic, pact magic, and invocations? Yikes! I hope the class features are simple because this class really doesn't need anymore complexity.

All in all a very meh lineup.I don't think Warlocks seem all that complex, to be honest. It may seem like a lot, but if I remember the stuff from the article on warlocks, a lot of it comes down to invocations, which are, for the most part at-will versions of lower level spells, or occasionally feat-like boons. They have spells, but those are more so they have something to break out, when you need more powerful effects. It looks complicated, because there are more columns and more abilities, but I suspect it won't be much worse than your Ranger or Paladin type half-casters.

Also, on the topic of Bugbears, they're neat, but they still don't bump the PF bugbears (http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080608155202/pathfinder/images/3/3c/Bugbear.jpg) from the top slot. The soulless eyes are I think what do it for me, but also, their hunch-backed stature, which makes them feel even more massive and frightening for your low-level PCs, which is incedentally the type of games I like to run.

akaddk
2014-07-21, 04:38 PM
Also warlock (the class I was most interested in) looks hopelessly complex, and I haven't even seen anything substantial. A new casting mechanic, pact magic, and invocations? Yikes! I hope the class features are simple because this class really doesn't need anymore complexity.
Bias is a powerful thing. I saw the preview and thought, "Wow, that looks like it's a really simplistic class!"

Without having any more information other than that two page preview it's hard to judge anything. It seems as if warlocks get a very limited spell selection as well as limited casting ability however they're also getting "Invocations" which is anyone's guess as to how they work. I'm guessing they'll be rather powerful though given the lesser spell-casting ability of the class.

That doesn't seem overly complex to me.

Psyren
2014-07-21, 04:40 PM
That high elf wizard is pretty fugly. Liefeldian spine, mosquito-bite chest paired incongruously with dockside-worker arms, and gnarled man-hands (human man at that). Ick. Also weren't those ear sizes meant for half-elves?

akaddk
2014-07-21, 06:09 PM
That high elf wizard is pretty fugly. Liefeldian spine, mosquito-bite chest paired incongruously with dockside-worker arms, and gnarled man-hands (human man at that). Ick. Also weren't those ear sizes meant for half-elves?

Maybe she was once a he?

StabbityRabbit
2014-07-21, 06:13 PM
*snip*

Yeah going back over the class it looks a lot less complex. There seems like a lot because of all the columns with tons of numbers and words, but after observing more closely it seems relatively simple (for a spell caster). This looks like an extremely customizable class too between spells, invocations, cantrips, pact boons, and patron features.

The only problem I can think of now is that the warlock is a simple spellcaster that doesn't look simple. So players who want a simple spellcaster will be alienated by the eight columns being thrown in their face. Not a big issue, but an issue nonetheless.

On bugbears I don't like the PF one. The head doesn't belong on that body, and that body doesn't belong on those legs. I vastly prefer the 5e bugbear.

Sartharina
2014-07-21, 06:14 PM
Maybe she was once a he?

Or is both? Apparently that's a thing now.

Tholomyes
2014-07-21, 06:43 PM
On bugbears I don't like the PF one. The head doesn't belong on that body, and that body doesn't belong on those legs. I vastly prefer the 5e bugbear.To me, that's part of the thing that I like about them. They feel all the more monstrous by the fact that their body doesn't feel like it belongs all in one package. For your low-level heroes, them being this very alien monstrosity is a good thing in my mind, because it makes them more than just a slightly higher CR common mook.

StabbityRabbit
2014-07-21, 07:04 PM
To me, that's part of the thing that I like about them. They feel all the more monstrous by the fact that their body doesn't feel like it belongs all in one package. For your low-level heroes, them being this very alien monstrosity is a good thing in my mind, because it makes them more than just a slightly higher CR common mook.

See when I hear bugbear I think "Big, hairy, goblin that can pop up behind you." not "Frankenstine's hairy uncle.":smalltongue:

Tholomyes
2014-07-21, 07:17 PM
See when I hear bugbear I think "Big, hairy, goblin that can pop up behind you." not "Frankenstine's hairy uncle.":smalltongue:See, Frankenstein (and, yes, Frankenstein is correct, because the creature was created by Victor Frankenstein, and thus he takes on Victor's Surname, and calling him Frankenstein's monster is a level of editorializing that I won't stand for) is too human for that. PF's Bugbears are actually monstrous, to the point that they should unnerve the heroes, by their appearance. Limiting them to "big hairy goblins" just feels like a waste.

Millennium
2014-07-21, 07:19 PM
Warlock art looks like a goth kid, carrying a pumpkin basket, trick-or-treating. Once you see that, you cannot unsee it.
Yeah, but at least when you're coming from a 3e perspective, warlocks have always looked like goth kids.

The trick-or-treating angle is new, though.

Tholomyes
2014-07-21, 07:29 PM
Yeah, but at least when you're coming from a 3e perspective, warlocks have always looked like goth kids.

The trick-or-treating angle is new, though.4e's warlock art, if I recall correctly, wasn't very "goth" but they weren't very good. I honestly haven't seen much that feels like it captures Warlocks well.

akaddk
2014-07-21, 07:36 PM
Or is both? Apparently that's a thing now.

Yeah, before you know it humans will fall down the slippery slope of this trend and be all confused about gender identity and sexuality. Dangerous times. Vote Republican.

StabbityRabbit
2014-07-21, 07:51 PM
See, Frankenstein (and, yes, Frankenstein is correct, because the creature was created by Victor Frankenstein, and thus he takes on Victor's Surname, and calling him Frankenstein's monster is a level of editorializing that I won't stand for) is too human for that. PF's Bugbears are actually monstrous, to the point that they should unnerve the heroes, by their appearance. Limiting them to "big hairy goblins" just feels like a waste.

The thing about that is I'd say Frankenstine is actually a lot creepier because he's closer to human. (When he's drawn like this (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs19/f/2007/244/b/1/Frankenstein__s_Monster_by_Kipestshin.jpg) anyway) And therefore monstrous (to my eye at least). The PF bugbear just looks silly to me with its weird proportions.

I like 5e's beastial approach a lot more. Look at him (http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/158005_Cloudkill.jpg)! He's like a goblin shifter.

Chaosvii7
2014-07-21, 08:07 PM
Knowing nothing about the Warlock, I assume that their regular spellcasting is per encounter instead of per day, which is very intriguing to me. I like that they kept some of the 3e Warlockisms without just making it a full 9-level vancian caster. I'm really excited to try it out.

Inevitability
2014-07-22, 01:19 AM
Or is both? Apparently that's a thing now.

Does that fall under 'creative uses of Polymorph'?
This thread is getting weird real fast.

Tholomyes
2014-07-22, 01:56 AM
Knowing nothing about the Warlock, I assume that their regular spellcasting is per encounter instead of per day, which is very intriguing to me. I like that they kept some of the 3e Warlockisms without just making it a full 9-level vancian caster. I'm really excited to try it out.That would be the best news, to me, that I'd hear since even the playtest began, but I fear it's unlikely. Capping out at 5th level spells (though, strangely early, relative to playtest versions of 5th level spell Half-casters) makes me think they're more likely to be more heavily weighted to pacts and invocations. Had they not been given so many other features, their spells being per encounter wouldn't seem so far-fetched, even if they all are max of 5th level spells, but with the features that they have, it sounds to me like spells are really just there for stuff their invocations and pact features can't deal with.

da_chicken
2014-07-22, 07:59 AM
See, Frankenstein (and, yes, Frankenstein is correct, because the creature was created by Victor Frankenstein, and thus he takes on Victor's Surname, and calling him Frankenstein's monster is a level of editorializing that I won't stand for)

It's Frankensteen!

http://i.imgur.com/vlzc4zc.jpg

Psyren
2014-07-22, 08:36 AM
Or is both? Apparently that's a thing now.

"And now Mialee... you must lip-synch for your life."

Person_Man
2014-07-22, 09:00 PM
Yeah, before you know it humans will fall down the slippery slope of this trend and be all confused about gender identity and sexuality. Dangerous times. Vote Republican.

"Mazes & Monsters (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/MazesandMonsters) is a far-out game. Swords... poison... spells... battles... maiming... killing!

Hey, it's all imagination!

Is it? I'll be talking to you. "