How to create Chtulu

[.Zero]

Is it possible, within 3.5 rules and sources, to create Cthulu and other beings from the Lovecraftian Pantheon?

No Divine Ranks and (possibly) no epic rules!
What can the Playground do?

[holywhippet]

I assume you mean Cthulhu? I'd assume you could create him or find an equivalent in the manual of the planes. In D&D the Far Realm is basically their equivalent of where the great old ones live.

[Eldan]

With only those abilities he actually shows in Call of Cthulhu? Some form of giant would do it with some reflavouring. A colossal giant, with a template to give him regeneration and another template for outsider type, done.

As in pop culture, some kind of divine colossal epic psion.

[holywhippet]

If you want to keep the proper Cthulu theme though then meeting or even learning much about Cthulu should cause madness.

[Yael]

As mentioned, Cthulhu appears in the book: Call of Cthulhu with a statblock adapted for D&D.

Also features some other lovecraftian gods (Nyarlathotep, Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, Shub-Niggurath, etc.) IMO gods there are somewhat behind of what they should be.

[JusticeZero]

That depends on what you're actually trying to represent. I'm sure you can generate a Cthulhu-like entity easily enough. The concept of an entity sufficiently powerful to be completely oblivious and uncaring about anything on the planet itself is.. curious, because it is both easy to make and impossible to do in a satisfying way. The D&D way of dealing with entities of unspeakable power is to wait until about level 19ish, then punch them in the face repeatedly. The sort of hijinks possible to an Epic wizard are pretty madness-inducing in their own right.

[.Zero]

Oh god, yes i meant "Cthulhu".
Anyways, i imagine it having the body of something like a Glabrezu and the head of an Illithid, but Cthulhu also has dragonscale wings, so i think it's reasonable to give it the dragonborn template. What I'm trying to do here is to create a build that is mechanically legal, starting from a base creature and then giving it templates, equipment, feats and class features., so the illithid-head stuff maybe is something granted by, say, grafts or the like.

So, we have a Glabrezu body and an illithid head, the dragonborn template and most of all, every single Outer God has the Epic Level Handbook's Pseudonatural template. As for powers and abilities, we surely have some sort of "aura of madness", involving a sky high will save DC, planar level telepathy, and a mixture of psionics and arcane magic.
Suggestions?

[sideswipe]

cheese a psion to get a stp erudite to give him insanity. and unlimited power points. use tricks to up caster level and use quicken power. so you can insanity as many people as possible in as little time.

up the DC to as high as possible. and then you can make anyone that see's you insane. close enough.

[Eldan]

The question is, what do you want your Cthulhu to do? The original, out of the story "The Call of Cthulhu" is a pretty big unknown. He's large, he's alien-looking and he doesn't get killed by a boat to the head, so probably regeneration. Apart from that, he isn't showing any abilities. Not driving any people insane, certainly. Even the one guy who saw him and got away was still more or less coherent and he'd also been drifting around on a wreck for quite some time.

He only got insanity powers and telepathy in later versions by other authors. And in the RPGs.

[AMFV]

Cthulu should probably have no in-game stats, he's supposed to be so powerful as to be literally incomprehensible, and anything with stats is comprehensible. As they say: "If it has stats you can kill it" Cthulu should therefore not be statted.

[sideswipe]

Cthulu should probably have no in-game stats, he's supposed to be so powerful as to be literally incomprehensible, and anything with stats is comprehensible. As they say: "If it has stats you can kill it" Cthulu should therefore not be statted.

problem is that things along the power of gods are not meant to be stated. they are meant to be so powerful it is incomprehensible. and they have stats. therefore things like chuthulu which have similar power should be stated. unless you agree with me and say that the gods should not have stats.

[holywhippet]

I think one of the even higher powered elder gods has a move action to let them move to any place in time and space. Not sure if they have other stats, but that alone should make them nigh on impossible to kill.

[ArqArturo]

Cthulu should probably have no in-game stats, he's supposed to be so powerful as to be literally incomprehensible, and anything with stats is comprehensible. As they say: "If it has stats you can kill it" Cthulu should therefore not be statted.

I have to agree.

[Kazudo]

The book "Elder Evils" Is pretty much devoted to this kind of thing. When you're fighting an Elder Evil, you're not really fighting IT most of the time, you're more often than not fighting some aspect or avatar of the thing. Defeating said avatar or aspect doesn't normally grant that the thing is dead, but rather sometimes a sound walloping might just put it back to sleep (Leviathan) send it back into space (Atropos) banish it back to the void (Father Llemic), etc. My EE is a little rusty, I apologize for wrongness.

The point remains though that Cthulhu probably wouldn't have stats per se. As has been mentioned, he's just that powerful. Most deities have stats because they're really just ascended beings. The true powers behind things though should remain just incomprehensible.

The thing's damage output is listed as "enough". Its AC is listed as "don't bother", its DR (in case its AC is bypassed somehow) is "Not happening/-". When it lashes out with a pseudopod, the world quakes and feels pain. Did you get hit by it? Probably. Are you dead? Most likely unless the DM doesn't want you to be for some reason.

A key point though is usually to have a way out somehow. Maybe having enough of its avatars/aspects/tentacles/whatever destroyed sends some kind of cosmic feedback to it which causes trouble. Maybe it has a quota and once it's hit it's done. Maybe there are cosmic keystones in place that were created by ancients on the same level of the Elder Evil which can put the thing back to whence it came. That's great and will work.

The mere existence of an Elder Evil changes the face of the world if not reality itself. Its effects will be felt for vast stretches of time if not permanently, and they're never put down for long.

[Svata]

Well, Cthulhu is statted fairly, what with his regenerating/reforming within 1d6 minutes of destruction. And the memetic devouring of 1d3 investigators /round.

[Ellowryn]

problem is that things along the power of gods are not meant to be stated. they are meant to be so powerful it is incomprehensible. and they have stats. therefore things like chuthulu which have similar power should be stated. unless you agree with me and say that the gods should not have stats.

I don't know, having a Cthulhu stated out with the correct gear, like power armor (http://daily-steampunk.com/steampunk-blog/2014/02/11/cthulhu-in-power-armour/), is something every DM should have in their back pocket just in case! But i agree it isnt something that should be defeat-able without DM fiat.

[A Tad Insane]

He would probably be the easiest to justify statting out, as only a couple of the people who saw him immediately died of MADNESS, and taking a speeding boat to the head equivalent did distraught him enough to not immediately force the entire worlds alignment to chaotic-who-gives-a-flying-damn, but statting out any lovecraftian horror, even the non-deity ones, sort of defeats their purpose, which is why old man Henderson winning call of Cthulhu is considered a major achievement, because you're not supposed to ever win against Lovecraftian horrors

[Sayt]

Pathfinder statted him up at CR 30 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/great-old-ones/great-old-one-cthulhu). It's not strictly 3.5, but it's certainly compatible.

[atemu1234]

Pathfinder statted him up at CR 30 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/great-old-ones/great-old-one-cthulhu). It's not strictly 3.5, but it's certainly compatible.

I'd stick a few divine ranks on him, though.

[AMFV]

He would probably be the easiest to justify statting out, as only a couple of the people who saw him immediately died of MADNESS, and taking a speeding boat to the head equivalent did distraught him enough to not immediately force the entire worlds alignment to chaotic-who-gives-a-flying-damn, but statting out any lovecraftian horror, even the non-deity ones, sort of defeats their purpose, which is why old man Henderson winning call of Cthulhu is considered a major achievement, because you're not supposed to ever win against Lovecraftian horrors

First, Old man Henderson used some pretty flagrant misreading and misapplication of rules. Second that's part of the reason why Cthulu shouldn't be statted out, because once he has stats he can be killed (even by an exploit), which shouldn't happen it defeats the point.


problem is that things along the power of gods are not meant to be stated. they are meant to be so powerful it is incomprehensible. and they have stats. therefore things like chuthulu which have similar power should be stated. unless you agree with me and say that the gods should not have stats.

The God's power is completely comprehensible, as are their goals. Zeus for example generates lightning and such, he controls storms, his goals are mostly boning everything in sight. The Gods in D&D are more like Greek Gods than Abrahamic Gods, and Greek Gods are thoroughly comprehensible, with portfolios and understood agendas and power level, whereas Cthulu is not.


Pathfinder statted him up at CR 30 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/great-old-ones/great-old-one-cthulhu). It's not strictly 3.5, but it's certainly compatible.

I again cite that Cthulu shouldn't be statted, even at CR 30, because his power is beyond understanding. Although I'll accept the reasoning that he would be the easiest of the Elder Gods to stat. I personally think Elder Evils did the best job of this, having you fight signs and harbingers rather than the evils themselves.

[Slipperychicken]

Great Cthulhu

Size/Type: Big/???
Hit Dice: Lots
Initiative: Your initiative roll +1
Speed: Faster than you
Armor Class: You missed.
Base Attack/Grapple: Your grapple modifier +21.
Attack: You die.
Full Attack: You all die.
Space/Reach: He can reach you
Special Attacks: 1d4 Investigators
Special Qualities: No list is long enough.
Saves: He made it.
Abilities: Str ???, Dex ???, Con ???, Int ???, Wis ???, Cha ???
Skills: High enough.
Feats: All the good ones.
Environment: Rl'yeh, aquatic, outer space.
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: Too high for you
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Chaotic Crazy.
Advancement: ???
Level Adjustment: No, you can't play as Cthulhu.

1d4 Investigators (Ex)
Cthulhu grabs and eats 1d4 player characters each round as a free action. He may decide to eat other characters once the PCs are all dead. Characters devoured in this manner are forever lost to his gaping maw and can never be returned to play by any means.

You Lose
Cthulhu's waking marks the end of the campaign setting. Whatever world he wakes on is forever twisted into an insane, blasted mockery of its former self.

[AMFV]

Great Cthulhu

Size/Type: Big/???
Hit Dice: Lots
Initiative: Your initiative roll +1
Speed: Faster than you
Armor Class: You missed.
Base Attack/Grapple: Your grapple modifier +21.
Attack: You die.
Full Attack: You all die.
Space/Reach: He can reach you
Special Attacks: 1d4 Investigators
Special Qualities: No list is long enough.
Saves: He made it.
Abilities: Str ???, Dex ???, Con ???, Int ???, Wis ???, Cha ???
Skills: High enough.
Feats: All the good ones.
Environment: Rl'yeh, aquatic, outer space.
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: Too high for you
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Chaotic Crazy.
Advancement: ???
Level Adjustment: No, you can't play as Cthulhu.

1d4 Investigators (Ex)
Cthulhu grabs and eats 1d4 player characters each round as a free action. He may decide to eat other characters once the PCs are all dead. Characters devoured in this manner are forever lost to his gaping maw and can never be returned to play by any means.

You Lose
Cthulhu's waking marks the end of the campaign setting. Whatever world he wakes on is forever twisted into an insane, blasted mockery of its former self.

I stand corrected.

[JusticeZero]

I'm not sure that the Lovecraftian horrors should be absurdly unkillable. The horrors get beaten in the original stories from time to time, generally because they are oblivious to human action, and they get stopped from doing something that they were doing for incomprehensible reasons. The reason why they were doing the thing may never be known.
For instance, a person wanders out to the back yard to mow the lawn, and is stung by a bee when they go to collect the lawn mower. They say "Ow!" and go inside, leaving the yard untrimmed. That's an example of an Elder Evil being defeated by a mortal.

[Sir Chuckles]

I again cite that Cthulu shouldn't be statted, even at CR 30, because his power is beyond understanding. Although I'll accept the reasoning that he would be the easiest of the Elder Gods to stat. I personally think Elder Evils did the best job of this, having you fight signs and harbingers rather than the evils themselves.

Strongly agreeing here, especially considering that that stat block gives him stats that allow him to be killed fairly easily by an Ubercharger.
With those stats, it would be a minor inconvenience to the Tippyverse, and, in my opinion, he and his counterparts should pose a more than credible threat to the 'verse. It's a decent benchmark.

Extra Credits has an episode on Cthulhu.

[AMFV]

I'm not sure that the Lovecraftian horrors should be absurdly unkillable. The horrors get beaten in the original stories from time to time, generally because they are oblivious to human action, and they get stopped from doing something that they were doing for incomprehensible reasons. The reason why they were doing the thing may never be known.
For instance, a person wanders out to the back yard to mow the lawn, and is stung by a bee when they go to collect the lawn mower. They say "Ow!" and go inside, leaving the yard untrimmed. That's an example of an Elder Evil being defeated by a mortal.

I didn't say unstoppable, just not defeatable at their full force. If a grown man fights a bee, they'll kill the bee, almost every single time. I'd wager with a 98% or greater success rate. It's why fighting their harbingers or wakers is the way to go... that's tantamount to stinging them.

[JusticeZero]

If a grown man fights a bee, they'll kill the bee, almost every single time..
"If".
If the human is actually fighting the bee, then you are no longer in a Cosmic Horror story. It might still be horror, but you have left the realm of Cosmic "Lovecraftian" Horror. And since you are no longer in the cosmic horror genre at all, who cares how tough the monster is or is not? It's just a really tough BBEG. Cosmic Horror is defined by the humans being completely irrelevant to and ignored by the "grand evils", because nothing humans do has any bearing on anything the "monsters" are doing. The horror is in realizing that the supreme "evil" entities you are worried about do not even pay attention to the fact that humans exist, and very likely are completely unaware of them. They simply don't merit the slightest bit of thought.

[AMFV]

"If".
If the human is actually fighting the bee, then you are no longer in a Cosmic Horror story. It might still be horror, but you have left the realm of Cosmic "Lovecraftian" Horror. And since you are no longer in the cosmic horror genre at all, who cares how tough the monster is or is not? It's just a really tough BBEG. Cosmic Horror is defined by the humans being completely irrelevant to and ignored by the "grand evils", because nothing humans do has any bearing on anything the "monsters" are doing. The horror is in realizing that the supreme "evil" entities you are worried about do not even pay attention to the fact that humans exist, and very likely are completely unaware of them. They simply don't merit the slightest bit of thought.

Which further suggests that statting out Cthulu is a mistake. You aren't competing with Cthulu, you're metaphorically stinging his hand, or disabling his alarm clock. Killing him or stopping him from doing something he actually intends to do is impossible, as impossible as it would be for a bee to stop a man (which was the point I was trying to make), which is the stance the Elder Evils book takes, you fight some shadow or fragment or something, rarely the thing itself.

[Slipperychicken]

With those stats, it would be a minor inconvenience to the Tippyverse, and, in my opinion, he and his counterparts should pose a more than credible threat to the 'verse. It's a decent benchmark.

To be fair, though, Cthulhu can be inconvenienced by a steamship crashing into him while he's mostly asleep, and many monsters and villains in Lovecraft's writing are defeated by force of arms, with the possible exception of the creature summoned in The Dunwich Horror.

Also, I do kind of get why people would want to stat/kill cthulhu in their games. It's a power-fantasy, and what better way is there to express your power than by defeating the most powerful and scary things anyone can think of? It's not my preference personally, but I can see where people are coming from on it. And besides, who are we to tell people what they can or can't have fantasies about?

[Sayt]

Strongly agreeing here, especially considering that that stat block gives him stats that allow him to be killed fairly easily by an Ubercharger.
With those stats, it would be a minor inconvenience to the Tippyverse, and, in my opinion, he and his counterparts should pose a more than credible threat to the 'verse. It's a decent benchmark.

Extra Credits has an episode on Cthulhu.

The one I linked is from pf, which doesn't have uberchargers to nearly the same extent(and 50% miss chance+40 ft reach make charging problematic) and iirc, tippyverse doesn't work as well.

But a few notes (I'm at work on my phone, please forgive the terseness):
- The OP asked whether Great Cthulhu CAN be statted, not whether it SHOULD be statted.
-My under standing is that Cthulhu is defeated in his pseudo-eponymous short story.
-He's designed as an encounter for high level, mythic player characters, literal candidates for deification
-Check the either great old one subtype (Hastur and Bokrug both get statted), or his own special immortality clause: it can't actually be killed, just sent back to sleep. (Which requires reducing him to negative con twice)

Nevertheless, not having actual cthulhu, and instead just one of his star spawn is a valid choice. But on the chance that some parties want to face The Great One, that's their GM's decision, and its helpful to them for it to be available.

[Coidzor]

Some kind of Pseudonatural(ELH version) Half-Dragon(not sure about color) Titan or Cloud/Storm Giant. Maybe with the primordial giant template? Maybe with Phrenic for extra gravy? Maybe Paragon(ELH)?

That'll get you the size, squiddlyness, and wings, I suppose.

On the whole you'd probably be better off homebrewing up a unique Cthulhu creature though. Or using someone else's unique Cthulhu.

[facelessminion]

Considering that Cthulhu gets downed by a boat, I don't see how the CR30 version from Pathfinder is at all unreasonable. By the time you're reliably downing CR 30s, you are a nigh-incomprehensible power yourself.

If you're wanting a system where deific beings aren't surmountable, then Dungeons and Dragons is likely the wrong system for it.

[Eldan]

Great Cthulhu

Size/Type: Big/???
Hit Dice: Lots
Initiative: Your initiative roll +1
Speed: Faster than you
Armor Class: You missed.
Base Attack/Grapple: Your grapple modifier +21.
Attack: You die.
Full Attack: You all die.
Space/Reach: He can reach you
Special Attacks: 1d4 Investigators
Special Qualities: No list is long enough.
Saves: He made it.
Abilities: Str ???, Dex ???, Con ???, Int ???, Wis ???, Cha ???
Skills: High enough.
Feats: All the good ones.
Environment: Rl'yeh, aquatic, outer space.
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: Too high for you
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Chaotic Crazy.
Advancement: ???
Level Adjustment: No, you can't play as Cthulhu.

1d4 Investigators (Ex)
Cthulhu grabs and eats 1d4 player characters each round as a free action. He may decide to eat other characters once the PCs are all dead. Characters devoured in this manner are forever lost to his gaping maw and can never be returned to play by any means.

You Lose
Cthulhu's waking marks the end of the campaign setting. Whatever world he wakes on is forever twisted into an insane, blasted mockery of its former self.


Allow me to counterstat:

Lovecraft's Cthulhu

Size/Type: Colossal Outsider
Hit Dice: About 60ish HP?
Initiative: Slow
Speed: Slowish on land, about 40-60 ft. swim speed
Armor Class: -4 size, low dex, some little natural armour, I'm thinking 20-ish
Base Attack/Grapple: Pretty gigantic
Attack: Unknown. Probably claws.
Full Attack: Unknown.
Space/Reach: Never reached anyone. 30 ft. or so?
Special Attacks: None
Special Qualities: Regeneration, Dreams
Saves: Unknown
Abilities: Str ???, Dex ???, Con ???, Int ???, Wis ???, Cha ???
Skills: Swim of +4 or so, otherwise unknown
Feats: unknown
Environment: Rl'yeh, outer space. Certainly not aquatic, water imprisoned him
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 5-10?
Treasure: None.
Alignment: True neutral
Advancement: ???
Level Adjustment: No, you can't play as Cthulhu.

[AMFV]

Considering that Cthulhu gets downed by a boat, I don't see how the CR30 version from Pathfinder is at all unreasonable. By the time you're reliably downing CR 30s, you are a nigh-incomprehensible power yourself.

If you're wanting a system where deific beings aren't surmountable, then Dungeons and Dragons is likely the wrong system for it.

But Cthulu isn't deific... he's beyond that to a level we can't even understand. And furthermore he's not downed by a boat. It just irritates him enough that he decides to go back to sleep. Who knows, maybe he was going to go back to sleep anyways and the boat didn't even really bother him. After all who can comprehend the incomprehensible. It is unlikely that anything can kill him, at least anything mortal or divine as we know it, it can only inconvenience him a little.

Well there are several PL X things.

[Eldan]

But Cthulu isn't deific... he's beyond that to a level we can't even understand. And furthermore he's not downed by a boat. It just irritates him enough that he decides to go back to sleep. Who knows, maybe he was going to go back to sleep anyways and the boat didn't even really bother him. After all who can comprehend the incomprehensible. It is unlikely that anything can kill him, at least anything mortal or divine as we know it, it can only inconvenience him a little.

Well there are several PL X things.

Cthulhu is not beyond deific. He is a lowly priest of the Outer Gods. He is potentially mighty compared to humanity, but ahe has, in canon, not a single mighty deed or powerful to his name. In all the story where his name is mentioned, he is left vague at best and a bit unimpressive to today's reader at worst. He is imprisoned and powerless and when awoken, he does nothing except slowly walk and swim around a bit, then go back to sleep. People are shocked to see him, but get over it. All the theories that he would eat the earth when awoken are just that, theories, with nothing behind them to substantiate it.

[Coidzor]

Yeah, there's Memetic Badass Cthulhu, who still isn't Nyarlahotep. And then there's Lovecraftian Cthulhu.

[facelessminion]

But Cthulu isn't deific... he's beyond that to a level we can't even understand. And furthermore he's not downed by a boat. It just irritates him enough that he decides to go back to sleep. Who knows, maybe he was going to go back to sleep anyways and the boat didn't even really bother him. After all who can comprehend the incomprehensible. It is unlikely that anything can kill him, at least anything mortal or divine as we know it, it can only inconvenience him a little.

Well there are several PL X things.

Cthulhu is a middling priest of the Outer Gods who is downed by a boat. He gets better, but he is still downed by a boat. I think that you are confusing him with the things that he serves.

The scurrying little investigators that deal with him are horrified and go insane, but they are, in the end, a bunch of low level investigators. This is Dungeons and Dragons, a game where we are given the stats for Thor. Just how many Thors should Cthulhu be worth, in your estimation?

Edit: I do still feel that the Pathfinder version of him is pretty darn well ideal. He is beefy, has a high enough reach that he can grab uberchargers before they get to him, self-resurrects, and if you avoid his miss chance via True Seeing you have a chance to go insane. Awesome, but surmountable.

[Serafina]

Lovecraftian horror doesn't mean you can't fight it - occasionally people beat them or at least escape. The cost of doing so is another matter.
Cthulhu got beaten by having a lot of kinetic energy delivered to his head while waking up - without dying, so the knowledge remains that he can come back and might not be as easy to stop next time, and whether you can escape the nightmares...

So the Pathfinder statblock (considering that there are no epic levels in Pathfinder) is actually pretty good. He explicitly can't be permanently killed, has the ability to influence dreams and his followers and any survivors are likely to be at least somewhat unhinged.


The horror from Lovecrafts stories doesn't come from "oh look there's a scary monster" anyway. It comes from loads of buildup where the protagonists realize that their view of the world is wrong, that there are things going on they can't understand, that they are insignificant.
The latter part is important since Lovecrafts protagonists were mostly intellectuals, scientists etc. - something that doesn't describe a lot of D&D-adventurers, so you have to challenge their specialities in other ways.

[AMFV]

Cthulhu is not beyond deific. He is a lowly priest of the Outer Gods. He is potentially mighty compared to humanity, but ahe has, in canon, not a single mighty deed or powerful to his name. In all the story where his name is mentioned, he is left vague at best and a bit unimpressive to today's reader at worst. He is imprisoned and powerless and when awoken, he does nothing except slowly walk and swim around a bit, then go back to sleep. People are shocked to see him, but get over it. All the theories that he would eat the earth when awoken are just that, theories, with nothing behind them to substantiate it.


Cthulhu is a middling priest of the Outer Gods who is downed by a boat. He gets better, but he is still downed by a boat. I think that you are confusing him with the things that he serves.

The scurrying little investigators that deal with him are horrified and go insane, but they are, in the end, a bunch of low level investigators. This is Dungeons and Dragons, a game where we are given the stats for Thor. Just how many Thors should Cthulhu be worth, in your estimation?

Edit: I do still feel that the Pathfinder version of him is pretty darn well ideal. He is beefy, has a high enough reach that he can grab uberchargers before they get to him, self-resurrects, and if you avoid his miss chance via True Seeing you have a chance to go insane. Awesome, but surmountable.

The problem is that you two are both confusing and conflating incomprehensibly powerful with infinitely powerful. Cthulu isn't worth NI Thors he can't be measured in Thors at all. His purposes and his powers cannot be understood. Hell you can't even use Geometry to understand his city. He cannot be understood so the concept of statting him makes him into something else, something that can be understood, and that makes him not cosmic horror, he's just Godzilla, which is scary but not in the same way.

He's certainly not unstoppable, I'd imagine the Gods in that universe would go to great lengths to prevent him waking, and would likely be successful because they are very powerful, but his power, and his designs are not things that we can understand, there's a reason why Lovecraft didn't write up his exact dimensions and physical description, because the imagination can only touch on what he is, because he's not comprehensible.

So in summary NI Power != Incomprehensible Power.

[facelessminion]

The problem is that you two are both confusing and conflating incomprehensibly powerful with infinitely powerful. Cthulu isn't worth NI Thors he can't be measured in Thors at all. His purposes and his powers cannot be understood. Hell you can't even use Geometry to understand his city. He cannot be understood so the concept of statting him makes him into something else, something that can be understood, and that makes him not cosmic horror, he's just Godzilla, which is scary but not in the same way.

He's certainly not unstoppable, I'd imagine the Gods in that universe would go to great lengths to prevent him waking, and would likely be successful because they are very powerful, but his power, and his designs are not things that we can understand, there's a reason why Lovecraft didn't write up his exact dimensions and physical description, because the imagination can only touch on what he is, because he's not comprehensible.

So in summary NI Power != Incomprehensible Power.


He gets ganked by a boat. He can be killed. Therefore, in Dungeons and Dragons, he needs stats. Cthulhu's power is something that we, as humans, may not be able to properly understand, but when it comes to an RPG system where numbers are everything, he has to be quantifiable.

And more to the point, whether you feel he is supposed to be quantifiable or not really misses the point in this situation, as the person asking the question has directly asked for ideas for stats for him. I'd argue the pathfinder ones are quite good ones.

[AMFV]

He gets ganked by a boat. He can be killed. Therefore, in Dungeons and Dragons, he needs stats. Cthulhu's power is something that we, as humans, may not be able to properly understand, but when it comes to an RPG system where numbers are everything, he has to be quantifiable.

He doesn't get killed, the boat does something to him and then he goes back to sleep. You need to reread the Call of Cthulu and what comes after. I've bolded certain part of your statement for emphasis, because that is a setting where Cthulu can't exist, nor any Cosmic Horror, where humans are a focal point, cosmic horror is impossible, since cosmic horror deals largely with things that are so far above humanity as to be not even things we can understand.



And more to the point, whether you feel he is supposed to be quantifiable or not really misses the point in this situation, as the person asking the question has directly asked for ideas for stats for him. I'd argue the pathfinder ones are quite good ones.

And I'm explaining that I think he shouldn't be statted... it's a difference of opinion. And it also answers the OP's question.

[Prime32]

The problem is that you two are both confusing and conflating incomprehensibly powerful with infinitely powerful. Cthulu isn't worth NI Thors he can't be measured in Thors at all. His purposes and his powers cannot be understood. Hell you can't even use Geometry to understand his city. He cannot be understood so the concept of statting him makes him into something else, something that can be understood, and that makes him not cosmic horror, he's just Godzilla, which is scary but not in the same way.That's not so much a product of Cthulhu as the type of story. There's one Lovecraft work where apes induce more insanity than Cthulhu when a scientist learns the "terrible secret" that he's descended from apes. Not only that, but this madness is infectious and causes other people to have freakouts or try to destroy his work just by being around him. Such is the great and terrible eldritch power of apes.

Hell, Lovecraft characters can't even study non-Euclidean geometry without going mad. I learned that in school, and learned 4D maths in college.

If you put Cthulhu in a game you can't give him special treatment - either make all outsiders horrifying or none of them. It makes no sense to let adventurers travel to the Abyss (a possibly-sentient pile of an infinite number of infinitely vast worlds made of pure evil, against which the Material Plane is less than the smallest speck) and walk away completely unaffected, yet die of fear because there's a giant squidman in front of them.

[AMFV]

That's not so much a product of Cthulhu as the type of story. There's one Lovecraft work where apes induce more insanity than Cthulhu when a scientist learns the "terrible secret" that he's descended from apes. Not only that, but this madness is infectious and causes other people to have freakouts or try to destroy his work just by being around him. Such is the great and terrible eldritch power of apes.

Hell, Lovecraft characters can't even study non-Euclidean geometry without going mad. I learned that in school, and learned 4D maths in college.

If you put Cthulhu in a game you can't give him special treatment - either make all outsiders horrifying or none of them. It makes no sense to let adventurers travel to the Abyss (a possibly-sentient pile of an infinite number of infinitely vast worlds made of pure evil, against which the Material Plane is less than the smallest speck) and walk away completely unaffected, yet die of fear because there's a giant squidman in front of them.


But he's not just a squidman, he's not describable. The Abyss, you've just described. A being of pure evil you can describe and they have measurable clear goals. Cthulu, neither. Which is precisely why he should be given some special treatment. Because if you stat up a giant squid-man, you aren't statting up Cthulu. You're statting up the popular depiction of Cthulu which folks were very against earlier. The Lovecraft one can't be statted properly since it can't even be appropriately described. You can't stat what you can't know, and if it's Lovecraftian Cthulu, you can't know it.

Now one could make an argument that Lovecraftian Cthulu doesn't fit D&D, but they bring in some very similar creatures in the Elder Evils books. So that only holds water if you're avoiding that book entirely.

[facelessminion]

There are plenty of horrible, indescribable, insanity inducing evils from beyond the veil and of the far realms that are described and have stats in 3.5, they just end up being high level. Once you're in the endgame and throwing around 9th level spells, things mostly become hocus pocus and metaphysics anyway.

[AMFV]

There are plenty of horrible, indescribable, insanity inducing evils from beyond the veil and of the far realms that are described and have stats in 3.5, they just end up being high level. Once you're in the endgame and throwing around 9th level spells, things mostly become hocus pocus and metaphysics anyway.

But they are all describable. They're described with Stats, that's a description. The closest we get to indescribable would be something like Pandorym in his full form once completely reconstructed. Or the Lady of Pain, or Ao. Those beings are so far above the ken of mortals as to be practically indescribable, and even they have partial descriptions.

So name one indescribable horror they statted out... How'd they describe it if it can't be described?

[Psyren]

I'd stick a few divine ranks on him, though.

GOOs can grant spells to worshippers. Divine Ranks aren't really a thing in Pathfinder (Mythic is really meant to represent all of that) though you certainly could in 3.P.



I again cite that Cthulu shouldn't be statted, even at CR 30, because his power is beyond understanding. Although I'll accept the reasoning that he would be the easiest of the Elder Gods to stat. I personally think Elder Evils did the best job of this, having you fight signs and harbingers rather than the evils themselves.

You're not really killing him though. All you do by "defeating" a GOO is putting it back to sleep - and they do not exist wholly in our reality to begin with, so you're mostly just fighting the bit of him that was able to squeeze through to the Material. So that would fit with the "harbinger" idea.

[facelessminion]

So name one indescribable horror they statted out... How'd they describe it if it can't be described?

That's my point. They're all describable, to some extent or another, and Cthulhu sure isn't an exception. While creatures like AO and The Lady of Pain get into the outright un-stattable point, Cthulhu is nowhere near there. Cthulhu is able to be vanquished, shoved away to come and torment people again, and therefore the way 3.5 works means he needs stats.

Cthulhu's Gods, on the other hand? Those might be a different story.

[AMFV]

That's my point. They're all describable, to some extent or another, and Cthulhu sure isn't an exception. While creatures like AO and The Lady of Pain get into the outright un-stattable point, Cthulhu is nowhere near there. Cthulhu is able to be vanquished, shoved away to come and torment people again, and therefore the way 3.5 works means he needs stats.

Cthulhu's Gods, on the other hand? Those might be a different story.

We're not even sure he was vanquished!!! He just got hit by the boat and stopped, his designs again are beyond the ken of mortals, maybe he wasn't even getting up, maybe he was still slumbering and partially awoke before drifting off again.

Furthermore he's not really describable at least not in any way that Lovecraft chose to use. You're thinking more of the Derleth Cthulu who is thoroughly describable and defeatable.

Edit: Again I reiterate my challenge, produce one monster described as being not describable with stats... There are no monsters from the Far Realm statted (only things from our realm that were touched by that realm)

[Psyren]

If it makes you feel any better, refer to the statblock as a "harbinger" or "aspect" and then feel free to exhort about how the real thing is unkillable and the players are screwed if that's how you get your jollies. It's easy to stat up something that isn't fightable after all, just say "no" to everything they try. PF provided stats for those groups who do want to take a swing at it, or at least part of it.

[Cocytus]

Yes, you could most definitely design Cthulhu as a boss monster, the pathfinder version does a pretty good job at emulating him. The problem is, this is not where Cthulhu shines. The kind of fear/power that Cthulhu has is not very easily quantifiable, at least not without starting with him as a base point and basing the entire game around him.

There are good reasons why nobody has made a horror RPG and stapled Cthulhu onto the end - it's a fundamentally different kind of fear.

EDIT: Clarifying.

[Prime32]

Edit: Again I reiterate my challenge, produce one monster described as being not describable with stats...Obyriths. They have an ability called Form of Madness which shatters your mind in various ways if you look upon them. The most extreme example is Pale Night:

Truth Beyond the Veil (Su): Pale Night's true form is disguised by her shroud, which gives her a soft, feminine shape. As a result, she does not possess a typical obyrith form of madness. Pale Night's true form is one of such unimaginable horror that reality itself refuses to accept it. Anyone who attempts to part the shroud to get a better look at the Mother of Demons must attempt a DC 34 Fortitude save. Success indicates that the creature's mind simply fails to process what it sees before a new shroud automatically wraps around her incorporeal body. Failure indicates that for a brief moment, the character views the truth, and is immediately slain. Once per day, Pale Night can suppress her shroud as a full-round action. This forces every creature within 30 feet to succeed on a DC 34 Fortitude save to avoid death. Those who are restored to life retain no memories of what it was they saw beyond the veil.

There are no monsters from the Far Realm statted (only things from our realm that were touched by that realm)[citation needed]

[AuraTwilight]

There are no monsters from the Far Realm statted (only things from our realm that were touched by that realm)

Pseudonatural creatures would like a word with you. They're specifically fluffed as Far Realm-y beings taking approximately normal-ish-maybe shapes when they enter the multiverse.

[.Zero]

Well well...
First off, i find the whole "Cthulhu can't/shouldn't be statted" irrelevant. I opened this thread because i'd like to know how you would represent it, and not statting it is not the same as representing it.

Anyways, Cthulhu (and about every other lovecraftian horror) CAN DEFINITELY BE STATTED. And i'll explain why.

If memory doesn't betray me, I'm pretty sure i read that lovecraftian beings "adapted" to our world. This means that when they are not on our planet (or, precisely, on our plane of existence) they are different from how we know 'em. Their real form belongs to the deep spaces of nightmares and madness, they are non euclidean beings, but when they decide to show in our world, they change their composition to the "rules" of this world, and that's how we know that Chtulhu is a gigantic squidman with dragon-like wings. So, when they are "here" they are material beings and thus subjected to this world physics (that's why he was hit by a boat). They can be fought. At least some of them.

We need to start from this assumption in order to stat them.

And more, just remember that we are talking about monsters coming from the early '900, when the fantasy genre wasn't so popular, and when men were scaried by a lot of things that today would make us laught. What i mean is that all of those beings' power seems now (to me at least) far less overwhelming. They are horrible things from outer space, eternally lurking in the deep, and this was sufficient to induce terror. But nowadays we are familiar with a boatload of horrendous things, like zombies, vampires, ghosts and any sort of aberration, which are our frinds now. We know lots of high fantasy and high horror worlds, and in D&D world, Chtulhu is not the scariest of things, nor the stronger, compared to the rest.

If you want to compare Lovecraft's fantasies and Elder Evils, I'm ok if we were talking about Azathoth, the supreme Outer God, it is more similar to things "beyond the game rules" than Chtulhu. Or just look at Thoon. In a game where they gave us numbers for anything, Thoon is the undefined thing on top of everything, and it's a cool concept, but Chtulu is not like Thoon. I mean, it were stopped by a boat to the head! The fact that it was stopped that way means a lot, or means nothing, depends on point of view, but that's it: a colossal++ size half-dragon, pseudonatural squidman, priest of the Outer Gods, the mighy Chtulhu, smashed in the head by a boat. Kind of ridiculous, isn't it?
Or just think about the Dunwitch Horror short story. In the end, during Yog-Sothoth awakening, this powerful being was stopped from devouring the world (or whatever) by three men shouting loud a magic formula like 1000 feets away... it's like if 3 lv1 commoners make a UMD check to cast Miracle from a scroll to stop the Tarrasque. Sure it can be done, but, hey, it's disappointing.

But those were just stories, I'm talking about recreating such beings in a world where people cast 9th level spells. I want justice for those monsters, i want to defeat them in an epic battle! This may be stupid, and probably is, but in order to do this, i need to give those monsters some numbers.

I think 3.5 offers all the sources for achieving this purpose, and i'd like to see what we can do.

I wrote this in few minutes, so if something isn't clear let me know and i'll clarify.

[JusticeZero]

The fact that it was stopped that way means a lot, or means nothing, depends on point of view, but that's it: a colossal++ size half-dragon, pseudonatural squidman, priest of the Outer Gods, the mighy Chtulhu, smashed in the head by a boat. Kind of ridiculous, isn't it?Not really. I mean, Lovecraftian heroes aren't even E6. All of the things done to stop them are fairly reasonable for E6- campaigns.
I'm talking about recreating such beings in a world where people cast 9th level spells. I want justice for those monsters, i want to defeat them in an epic battle! This may be stupid, and probably is, but in order to do this, i need to give those monsters some numbers.
Well, then find some good encounters fit for an epic level party, and retune/refluff them to map to the concepts you want. The enemies in the stories were pretty variable, and your party won't necessarily encounter those ones.
I saw a lot of Lovecraftian monster names browsing the Pathfinder SRD bestiary (d20pfsrd.com). Might check there.

[AMFV]

Pseudonatural creatures would like a word with you. They're specifically fluffed as Far Realm-y beings taking approximately normal-ish-maybe shapes when they enter the multiverse.

I stand corrected. I still think they shouldn't be modeled for what it's worth, both sides on this debate have pretty coherently presented their arguments, so the OP should be able to decide, as he does in the next post.


Well well...
First off, i find the whole "Cthulhu can't/shouldn't be statted" irrelevant. I opened this thread because i'd like to know how you would represent it, and not statting it is not the same as representing it.

Anyways, Cthulhu (and about every other lovecraftian horror) CAN DEFINITELY BE STATTED. And i'll explain why.

If memory doesn't betray me, I'm pretty sure i read that lovecraftian beings "adapted" to our world. This means that when they are not on our planet (or, precisely, on our plane of existence) they are different from how we know 'em. Their real form belongs to the deep spaces of nightmares and madness, they are non euclidean beings, but when they decide to show in our world, they change their composition to the "rules" of this world, and that's how we know that Chtulhu is a gigantic squidman with dragon-like wings. So, when they are "here" they are material beings and thus subjected to this world physics (that's why he was hit by a boat). They can be fought. At least some of them.

We need to start from this assumption in order to stat them.

And more, just remember that we are talking about monsters coming from the early '900, when the fantasy genre wasn't so popular, and when men were scaried by a lot of things that today would make us laught. What i mean is that all of those beings' power seems now (to me at least) far less overwhelming. They are horrible things from outer space, eternally lurking in the deep, and this was sufficient to induce terror. But nowadays we are familiar with a boatload of horrendous things, like zombies, vampires, ghosts and any sort of aberration, which are our frinds now. We know lots of high fantasy and high horror worlds, and in D&D world, Chtulhu is not the scariest of things, nor the stronger, compared to the rest.

If you want to compare Lovecraft's fantasies and Elder Evils, I'm ok if we were talking about Azathoth, the supreme Outer God, it is more similar to things "beyond the game rules" than Chtulhu. Or just look at Thoon. In a game where they gave us numbers for anything, Thoon is the undefined thing on top of everything, and it's a cool concept, but Chtulu is not like Thoon. I mean, it were stopped by a boat to the head! The fact that it was stopped that way means a lot, or means nothing, depends on point of view, but that's it: a colossal++ size half-dragon, pseudonatural squidman, priest of the Outer Gods, the mighy Chtulhu, smashed in the head by a boat. Kind of ridiculous, isn't it?
Or just think about the Dunwitch Horror short story. In the end, during Yog-Sothoth awakening, this powerful being was stopped from devouring the world (or whatever) by three men shouting loud a magic formula like 1000 feets away... it's like if 3 lv1 commoners make a UMD check to cast Miracle from a scroll to stop the Tarrasque. Sure it can be done, but, hey, it's disappointing.

But those were just stories, I'm talking about recreating such beings in a world where people cast 9th level spells. I want justice for those monsters, i want to defeat them in an epic battle! This may be stupid, and probably is, but in order to do this, i need to give those monsters some numbers.

I think 3.5 offers all the sources for achieving this purpose, and i'd like to see what we can do.

I wrote this in few minutes, so if something isn't clear let me know and i'll clarify.

The problem is we have no description of his abilities, ever. We know he can't be killed and that's about it and that he's enormous, and that he has power to influence people with his dreams. So anything past that is extrapolation, at that point you're statting Godzilla with a squidface. I'm not saying that you can't stat something similar, but I'm saying that there is not enough information to stat him. If you want to defeat Cthulu you aren't talking about Lovecraft's Cthulu, I'd read some Auguste Derleth, he has a defeatable Cthulu, so what you're looking to model is close to that.

I'm not saying you can't model a defeatable big evil thing that defies understanding. I'm saying that using the sources available we can't really model Cthulu, cause we never see him do anything other than get up and then fall back asleep. So there's nothing we can model, we can get something the same size, but we don't know enough to model his abilities. Everything that models him is making guesses, and those might be good guesses, but they're still guesses.

[Graypairofsocks]

Edit: Again I reiterate my challenge, produce one monster described as being not describable with stats... There are no monsters from the Far Realm statted (only things from our realm that were touched by that realm)

About the second part: there is the Uvuudaum (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/uvuudaum.htm)(Picture (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery5a/44184_C5_Uvuudaum.jpg)) from the "Epic Level Handbook".

[Psyren]

I stand corrected. I still think they shouldn't be modeled for what it's worth, both sides on this debate have pretty coherently presented their arguments, so the OP should be able to decide, as he does in the next post.



The problem is we have no description of his abilities, ever. We know he can't be killed and that's about it and that he's enormous, and that he has power to influence people with his dreams. So anything past that is extrapolation, at that point you're statting Godzilla with a squidface. I'm not saying that you can't stat something similar, but I'm saying that there is not enough information to stat him. If you want to defeat Cthulu you aren't talking about Lovecraft's Cthulu, I'd read some Auguste Derleth, he has a defeatable Cthulu, so what you're looking to model is close to that.

I'm not saying you can't model a defeatable big evil thing that defies understanding. I'm saying that using the sources available we can't really model Cthulu, cause we never see him do anything other than get up and then fall back asleep. So there's nothing we can model, we can get something the same size, but we don't know enough to model his abilities. Everything that models him is making guesses, and those might be good guesses, but they're still guesses.

Again, this is easily solvable. Call whatever statted version you see an "aspect" and let people who want to fight "Cthulhu" have their fun.

[Mystia]

Throwing in my 2 cents while slowly shying away from the Cthulhu Mythos discussion which I'm loving to stalk (I'm a great Lovecraft fan)...

I think that the best way to stat something like Cthulhu is a Half-Illithid Dragonwrought Kobold (also picking that silly 3rd level feat for Wings), and then using Pun-Pun shenanigans for him to steal Pale Night's Truth Beyond the Veil ability. That, or Dagon's version of Form of Madness, since making you too scared to even look at the sea again is very Cthulhu-esque.
Needless to say, he can also make himself permanently colossal.
So, giant humanoid octopus with dragon wings that drive you insane (or kill you) when you as much as look at him. I believe this is fairly accurate? (though I'm not sure if with Pun Pun tricks one would be able to acquire abilities even from unique creatures)

[AMFV]

Again, this is easily solvable. Call whatever statted version you see an "aspect" and let people who want to fight "Cthulhu" have their fun.

It's a fundamental difference in outlook is all I was saying. And you still can't stat an aspect of Cthulu since we have no knowledge of his capabilities. It's all guesswork, which is fine, but you aren't statting something, you're creating your own monster along a similar precept. Many fantasy creatures can be statted since we see them in action, or have descriptions, but Cthulu we don't, so there is insufficient information to the task. Now one could design a monster along a similar theme and call it that, and that's fine, but there isn't enough info for a good interpretation.

[Psyren]

And you still can't stat an aspect of Cthulu since we have no knowledge of his capabilities.

But by that logic, you have no way of saying the stats they came up with are wrong because you're just as much in the dark. For all you know, there is in fact an aspect of the big guy that does exactly the stuff they came up with. So they may as well spitball something.

And even if it's wrong, so what? "All stats = no" is just boring. The Lady of Pain meme is funny and all but at some point you get tired of fighting great wyrm dragons and balors and you want something really scary.

[AMFV]

But by that logic, you have no way of saying the stats they came up with are wrong because you're just as much in the dark. For all you know, there is in fact an aspect of the big guy that does exactly the stuff they came up with. So they may as well spitball something.

And even if it's wrong, so what? "All stats = no" is just boring. The Lady of Pain meme is funny and all but at some point you get tired of fighting great wyrm dragons and balors and you want something really scary.

Well the thing is that for me, anything with stats can never be scary, it has stats, it can be beaten or killed. Which is I think the main split between the statters and the no-statters. Statters view an encounter with stats as potentially scary, whereas for me it's not it can be beaten, and things that can be beaten aren't scary, adrenaline and other things overcome the fear. As far as scariness with stats go I think the best bet is to have frightening motivations rather too much power. Or to have somebody you can't get for whatever reason that's continuing to cause harm. Of course this is, as I was stating earlier a matter of taste, but it's a pretty big divide between different people's tastes here.

[Psyren]

Well the thing is that for me, anything with stats can never be scary, it has stats, it can be beaten or killed.

For high-op players, yeah, almost nothing with stats will be a challenge or scary - but books aren't written with those players in mind anyway because they have the system mastery to come up with something worse on their own (or nothing at all, as you are suggesting.)

Basically, all you have to keep in mind is that if someone came up with "stats" for Cthulhu or whoever to put in a book and sell it - you are not the target audience.

[atemu1234]

Well the thing is that for me, anything with stats can never be scary, it has stats, it can be beaten or killed. Which is I think the main split between the statters and the no-statters. Statters view an encounter with stats as potentially scary, whereas for me it's not it can be beaten, and things that can be beaten aren't scary, adrenaline and other things overcome the fear. As far as scariness with stats go I think the best bet is to have frightening motivations rather too much power. Or to have somebody you can't get for whatever reason that's continuing to cause harm. Of course this is, as I was stating earlier a matter of taste, but it's a pretty big divide between different people's tastes here.

Meh, I never understood the stats=doom crowd. You run a mid to high level campaign, something CR 40 minus the divine ranks tends to be fairly unkillable, and it's better to have stats ready for anything and everything in your campaign.

[AMFV]

Meh, I never understood the stats=doom crowd. You run a mid to high level campaign, something CR 40 minus the divine ranks tends to be fairly unkillable, and it's better to have stats ready for anything and everything in your campaign.

It is most certainly not unkillable, after all a Hulking Hurler build can do more damage than there are particles in the universe, that's enough to kill anything and that's available at mid-high levels. Anything is killable if it has stats. Balors can be killed in E6 as has been demonstrated, giving something stats makes it killable.

[atemu1234]

It is most certainly not unkillable, after all a Hulking Hurler build can do more damage than there are particles in the universe, that's enough to kill anything and that's available at mid-high levels. Anything is killable if it has stats. Balors can be killed in E6 as has been demonstrated, giving something stats makes it killable.

Killable, yes. But at level 15-20? It takes a fair amount of cheese. More than the game is designed for, at any rate. Remember, PCs aren't normal blokes. They've meant to develop in power, challenge the unchallengable, kill the unkillable. Pun-Pun level antics aside, you're liable to be looking at Epic Level adventures before even being able to challenge something like this, at which point the PCs are the heroes of legend capable of fighting the gods themselves.

[Vorandril]

Pick an appropriate giant. Apply the Half Far-spawn template. Whip Winged on there. Go with Gestalt Duskblade/Psion

Have a field day.

[AMFV]

Killable, yes. But at level 15-20? It takes a fair amount of cheese. More than the game is designed for, at any rate. Remember, PCs aren't normal blokes. They've meant to develop in power, challenge the unchallengable, kill the unkillable. Pun-Pun level antics aside, you're liable to be looking at Epic Level adventures before even being able to challenge something like this, at which point the PCs are the heroes of legend capable of fighting the gods themselves.

Again in D&D the Gods themselves are both limited and comprehensible, which makes them not scary. And something that can be defeated with cheese isn't that frightening.

[Vorandril]

If you want to create a giant winged psionic humano-squidoid bag of hit points, you can do that. If you want to create Cthulhu, you first have to change the paradigm of the game you are playing in by banning a huge amount of stuff that is considered ordinary in D&D games.

Like magic.
This says a lot about Cthulhu instead of just tentacle monsters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DyRxlvM9VM

[atemu1234]

Again in D&D the Gods themselves are both limited and comprehensible, which makes them not scary. And something that can be defeated with cheese isn't that frightening.

I don't think when they see it I'll be describing its stats to the PCs. I'll be describing the monster. If it can't show up or be defeated, then why would the PCs decide to play?

Stats aren't a death sentence, but maybe I should start a new thread to discuss that. The OP explicitly asked for stats, so I guess he got them. I'll get this debate taken elsewhere.

[AMFV]

I don't think when they see it I'll be describing its stats to the PCs. I'll be describing the monster. If it can't show up or be defeated, then why would the PCs decide to play?

Stats aren't a death sentence, but maybe I should start a new thread to discuss that. The OP explicitly asked for stats, so I guess he got them. I'll get this debate taken elsewhere.

Stats are a death sentence... anything with stats can be killed, literally. Especially with 3.5 rules. Furthermore there is insufficient information to apply the stats here, since we really have no idea of Cthulu's capabilities, it's all just speculation.