How to mitigate the annoyance of Duration: Concentration?

[Nettlekid]

I'd like to build an illusionist who keeps a Major Image up at all times and has it react to what's happening, ideally without having to use every turn to prepare an action to do so, or having to waste my actions keeping concentration. How can I bypass this? Sonorous Hum is great except that it makes too much noise for a stealthy illusionist. If there was an arcane Solicit Psicrystal that would be perfect. What else can I use to have a persistent shifting illusion around me?

[Doc_Maynot]

Familiar Concentration feat.
Source: Lost Empires of Faerun
Requires CL9 and the Improved Familiar feat
The it lets you shift control and concentration of the spell to your familiar, "provided the creature is within 5 feet of you and its Intelligence score is at least 10 + the level of the spell." But the feat has it to where you can't switch control back after it is already done.

[With a box]

How about shatter action economy?
Polymorp into devti or something

[Hazrond]

I'd like to build an illusionist who keeps a Major Image up at all times and has it react to what's happening, ideally without having to use every turn to prepare an action to do so, or having to waste my actions keeping concentration. How can I bypass this? Sonorous Hum is great except that it makes too much noise for a stealthy illusionist. If there was an arcane Solicit Psicrystal that would be perfect. What else can I use to have a persistent shifting illusion around me?

Multiheaded template from savage species, for +1 LA you get an extra head, a free mental action (cough, concentration, cough), and the ability to dual wield with no penalties no matter the size :smallbiggrin:

Edit: oh you also get darkvision, a few extra bonuses to spot listen and such, and a vorpal weapon cant one-shot you :smalltongue:

[Hamste]

What level? Extraordinary concentration can do it if you can make a dc 28 (preferably dc 38 if you want that move action, probably mixing it with steady concentration so that the check is relatively easy) it allows you concentrate all day. Familiar concentration allows your familiar to do the concentration for you (already mentioned but might as well mention it as again).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's a skill trick in Complete Scoundrel called Swift Concentration.

[VoxRationis]

Isn't there a spell or something in Complete Arcane? Finding the Center or something like that?

[dextercorvia]

Isn't there a spell or something in Complete Arcane? Finding the Center or something like that?

8th level Wu Jen spell, and it only lasts 10 minutes. It is persistable, though.

If you want to persist something, though, Sonorous Hum will do it much sooner (Bard2, Cleric or Sorcerer/Wizard3).

[bekeleven]

8th level Wu Jen spell, and it only lasts 10 minutes. It is persistable, though.

If you want to persist something, though, Sonorous Hum will do it much sooner (Bard2, Cleric or Sorcerer/Wizard3).

If a DM OKs it, an item of continuous Sonorous Hum is incredibly cheap (I made mine head-slot earbuds).

[Doc_Maynot]

If a DM OKs it, an item of continuous Sonorous Hum is incredibly cheap (I made mine head-slot earbuds).

The OP mentioned the spell. They have issues with the fact the spell causes a noise that can be easily heard.

[Nettlekid]

These are some really good suggestions you guys, thanks!

I think the Familiar Concentration is probably the best bet, being the easiest to accomplish with the most payoff. It also gives a reason to play up the flavor of a Familiar.

Extraordinary Concentration never explicitly bypasses the limitation that you can't cast a new spell while concentrating on one already, which might be important.

Swift Concentration is 1/encounter or 1/minute. Not enough.

Finding the Center is pretty powerful, and Persisting it would be very effective. That's a strong second choice, only made unappealing by the difficulty of getting the 8th level Wu Jen spell (I'd either have to go Wu Jen or Recaster/Wyrm Wizard to grab it), but also I'm not sure how "reactable" I'd be able to make it if it was just passively active.

The thing I really like about that Familiar Concentration is that I can instruct my familiar to, every turn, prepare its action to have the illusion react in a believable way to the attacks of the enemy, to keep up the deceptive appearance.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Swift Concentration is 1/encounter or 1/minute. Not enough.

Skill tricks such as Swift Concentration are usable only 1/encounter or 1/minute, but once you start using it on a given spell you can continue using it on that same spell indefinitely. So cast Silent Image, use Swift Concentration to maintain it for ten rounds or more, and it's available again because it's been a minute since it was activated.

[Nettlekid]

Skill tricks such as Swift Concentration are usable only 1/encounter or 1/minute, but once you start using it on a given spell you can continue using it on that same spell indefinitely. So cast Silent Image, use Swift Concentration to maintain it for ten rounds or more, and it's available again because it's been a minute since it was activated.

What? That's not how I would rule it, nor how I think it's intended. I don't think the skill trick is an "activation" type thing, like it activates the trick for any spell and lasts as long as the spell does. I think it's 1/minute you can maintain concentration as a Swift action. Like, for nine turns, standard action, the tenth, swift, the eleventh, standard.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What? That's not how I would rule it, nor how I think it's intended. I don't think the skill trick is an "activation" type thing, like it activates the trick for any spell and lasts as long as the spell does. I think it's 1/minute you can maintain concentration as a Swift action. Like, for nine turns, standard action, the tenth, swift, the eleventh, standard.

"You can maintain concentration on a spell or similar effect as a swift action."

I see it as replacing a spell or similar effect's normal concentration time when used. You cast a spell with a duration of concentration, decide to use Swift Concentration, and then you can maintain concentration on that spell as a swift action.

Sadly, its wording is so brief and ambiguous that there's not really any way to determine which reading is correct. The skill trick is mentioned in the errata, but on page 17 where it's recommended for a Divine Scoundrel, and it only subtly changes the wording of the explanation of how it works: “Concentrate on an ongoing spell and then fire off another spell.” It's still entirely open to interpretation, so just be sure to ask your DM how he thinks it should work.

[Rijan_Sai]

Multiheaded template from savage species, for +1 LA you get an extra head, a free mental action (cough, concentration, cough), and the ability to dual wield with no penalties no matter the size :smallbiggrin:

Edit: oh you also get darkvision, a few extra bonuses to spot listen and such, and a vorpal weapon cant one-shot you :smalltongue:

Not entirely relevant to the conversation, but where are you getting that +1 LA from? According to SS, (my copy, at least...) it is +2 HD per head, and minimum +2 LA.

[Miss Disaster]

Biff, that's a great catch. I'm going to go over that with a fine-tooth comb later.

****

Remember, the Familiar Concentration feat is severely limited by the INT score of your familiar. You may need to think about getting it a Headband of Intellect or cast Fox's Cunning on it frequently in order to be able to and transfer such goodies as Manyjaws, Telekinesis and Illusory Pit.

****

Also note, the designer of the Extraordinary Concentration feat has publicly stated that he intended for the feat to allow the spellcaster to get opportunities to cast other Standard Action spells while concentrating with a Move or Swift action. The onerous entry prerequisites of the feat kinda lend credence to that. Sadly, the feat wasn't errata'd ...

****

If you are allowed to craft an item of Sonorous Hum, look into spending extra gold to find a game mechanic that allows dampening of the sound emanation from the spell. You could also look into crafting a 2/day item of Quickened Sonorous Hum (cast as a Swift Action). You shouldn't need Sonorous Hum more than 2 of your 4 combat encounters a day.

[JusticeZero]

Not in front of my books, but isn't there a Wizard ACF in DSP Ultimate Psionics that gives a PF Wizard a psicrystal? One of the main things that those are for is to take over concentration..

[StreamOfTheSky]

"You can maintain concentration on a spell or similar effect as a swift action."

I see it as replacing a spell or similar effect's normal concentration time when used. You cast a spell with a duration of concentration, decide to use Swift Concentration, and then you can maintain concentration on that spell as a swift action.

Sadly, its wording is so brief and ambiguous that there's not really any way to determine which reading is correct. The skill trick is mentioned in the errata, but on page 17 where it's recommended for a Divine Scoundrel, and it only subtly changes the wording of the explanation of how it works: “Concentrate on an ongoing spell and then fire off another spell.” It's still entirely open to interpretation, so just be sure to ask your DM how he thinks it should work.

"Maintain concentration" isn't a one-time check box yes-or-no. It's something you decide to do, or not do, each and every round. Swift Concentration let's you maintain as a swift and can be used 1/encounter, so it will only cover one round. The next you have to maintain it again. It's not some passive thing you have on standby. You can't take a standard (generally) on a given round, you don't concentrate on a spell anymore.

If that errata is true, that *is* very interesting, though. The original version did absolutely nothing to remove the restriction of not being able to cast while concentrating on another spell; the errata would seem to completely and utterly change that.

[Hazrond]

Not entirely relevant to the conversation, but where are you getting that +1 LA from? According to SS, (my copy, at least...) it is +2 HD per head, and minimum +2 LA.

:smallconfused: from what i read if a medium creature took said template it would only be +1 LA?

[Allanimal]

PRobably won't work with your build, but a 10th level spirit shaman has a class feature that allows a concentration spell to be maintained while otherwise acting normally.

[Karnith]

:smallconfused: from what i read if a medium creature took said template it would only be +1 LA?
Are you sure you're looking at the right template? Multiheaded is +2 HD per head, and has a scaling LA based on the number of heads added (+2 for 1 additional head, +3 for 2-4, and so on), as previously noted. Check Savage Species, p. 125.

Size only enters into the picture in determining the maximum number of additional heads.

[AnonymousPepper]

Easy. Be a Planar Shepherd aligned to the Astral Plane. When your Planar Bubble is up, all spells are swift actions. So you can still concentrate, move, and cast on the same turn.

This easy low-op technique can be used in any campaign. I highly recommend it.

[bekeleven]

Easy. Be a Planar Shepherd

I, too, destroy beehives with nuclear weapons.

[Hazrond]

Easy. Be a Planar Shepherd.


I, too, destroy beehives with nuclear weapons.

May i please sig these two? :smallbiggrin:

[Nettlekid]

May i please sig these two? :smallbiggrin:

Before that, what in the world is your current sig referencing? How did that conversation even happen?

[Doc_Maynot]

Before that, what in the world is your current sig referencing? How did that conversation even happen?

It was the sequel to the Can you Cheat at D&D thread, the Orcus out of nowhere fad came from a poster's house rules with summoning that has a unknown chance to summon Orcus

[Hazrond]

Before that, what in the world is your current sig referencing? How did that conversation even happen?

It was in the Jedipotter Can you cheat at D&D thread, the ongoing joke there was that if you did anything he considered "Cheating or optimizing" orcus would randomly appear

Edit: Swordsage'd

[Miss Disaster]

Biff's Swift Concentration skill trick errata issue made me check out the errata. His point is very valid about the ambiguous definition and intent of the Skill Trick. Although I agree with Stream that the original RAW of Swift Concentration should still hold true. Especially in light of comparing its game mechanic power level to the Extraordinary Concentration feat. The latter of which was supposed to allow standard action spellcasting while a concentration spell was shifted over to move-or-swift action commandeering (according the feat's author). The skill trick looks to be a lesser version of that. Allowing a spellcaster to commandeer the concentration spell via swift action while allowing useful standard action activities such as triggering wands or throwing tanglefoot bag (but not casting another spell).

[AnonymousPepper]

May i please sig these two? :smallbiggrin:

Oh God I can't breathe right now I'm laughing way too hard

yes, yes you may

now will somebody please cast Air Breathing on me or something

[Socksy]

It was in the Jedipotter Can you cheat at D&D thread, the ongoing joke there was that if you did anything he considered "Cheating or optimizing" orcus would randomly appear

Edit: Swordsage'd

I've been lurking in that thread for days, and have not yet posted due to the likelihood of accidentally summoning Orcus :smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

As for your concentration problem, I came in here to suggest a psicrystal, so I'm not of much use :<

[Jack_Simth]

I'd like to build an illusionist who keeps a Major Image up at all times and has it react to what's happening, ideally without having to use every turn to prepare an action to do so, or having to waste my actions keeping concentration. How can I bypass this? Sonorous Hum is great except that it makes too much noise for a stealthy illusionist. If there was an arcane Solicit Psicrystal that would be perfect. What else can I use to have a persistent shifting illusion around me?
Eh, the thread is only about a week old, shouldn't be too far gone, I think...

Craft an Intelligent Magic Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm). One of the possible Lesser Powers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm#intelligentItemPowers) is Major Image 1/day. Duration is Concentration + 3 rounds, no cap, the intelligent item gets it's own actions, and as a construct, can concentrate forever. 6,400 gp to add to an existing magic item (1,000 for it being minimally intelligent, 5,400 for the specific lesser power you're after).

Of course, you'll have to befriend it... fortunately, it inherits the creator's alignment, so that shouldn't be too hard.

[Miss Disaster]

The Major Image will also have the limitation of its static Effect Cubes. So if the OP plans on having the figment follow him while he walks, it will entail multiple castings. Staying static? Not so much a problem.

[Dalebert]

There really should be a spell that concentrates for you within certain limits. You know how they have a spectral hand? There should be a spectral frontal lobe or something.

[Jack_Simth]

There really should be a spell that concentrates for you within certain limits. You know how they have a spectral hand? There should be a spectral frontal lobe or something.

There is. It's called Sonorous Hum, mentioned already by dextercorvia.

[Doc_Maynot]

And by Nettlekid in the OP, who mentioned they didn't want to use it due to the sound it makes.

[Nettlekid]

Eh, the thread is only about a week old, shouldn't be too far gone, I think...

Craft an Intelligent Magic Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm). One of the possible Lesser Powers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm#intelligentItemPowers) is Major Image 1/day. Duration is Concentration + 3 rounds, no cap, the intelligent item gets it's own actions, and as a construct, can concentrate forever. 6,400 gp to add to an existing magic item (1,000 for it being minimally intelligent, 5,400 for the specific lesser power you're after).

Of course, you'll have to befriend it... fortunately, it inherits the creator's alignment, so that shouldn't be too hard.

Hm, that's a good idea, similar to but cheaper/easier than the Familiar Concentration solution, but with the negative side of having a much lower save DC and without the benefit of any of my illusion buffs (like Insidious Magic) that my own spells would have, since it's the item casting it.


The Major Image will also have the limitation of its static Effect Cubes. So if the OP plans on having the figment follow him while he walks, it will entail multiple castings. Staying static? Not so much a problem.

Oh, hmm, I didn't think of this. I guess I sort of assumed that since the effect is a figment which is restrained by the size, so long as the figment isn't big it can go wherever. It's not that it makes a zone of illusion, it just makes an illusion which can't be bigger than 4+1/CL ten-foot-cubes.