Build advice for a Level 2 Leader

[Oddman80]

Help me Playground, you’re my only hope.
I have very little 4e knowledge (I’m mostly a 3.5 player) – but this 4e game I’m in, is the only one I can find right now.
I need to roll up a Level 2 Leader, and I don’t know where to begin. For the level 1 campaign we just finished (due to TPK), I had been a longtooth shifter cleric. I had the worst luck with rolls (76% of my d20 rolls were below 10, and I would crit-fail 2-3 times during a 2-hour session) so I am not bringing him back for the next module.

I don’t know what module we are playing. Now do I know what the other players are rolling up. We are supposed to keep the same rolls we had during the last game, so if that helps, we had:
Elf Ranger (archery), Dwarf Fighter, Halfling Rogue, Wilder Psion, and me – the Longtooth Shifter Cleric.

I think my problem with the last character (other than bad rolls – and really… they were extremely bad) was I was trying to be too effective in battle, and therefore didn’t have enough buffs to meet my party’s needs.

I love Tom the Dragonborn on the Drunks&Dragons podcast, but I think that if I go warlord, I will once again be a disservice to my party, trying to serve in melee, when we will clearly have that covered between the people who played ranger/rogue/fighter.

So I am torn between Shaman and Bard. I like the idea of being able to help multiple people at the same time versus just healing one player on a turn.

Can anyone give me build suggestions – I really just have no clue where to begin, and I need to have a build ready to go before the end of the week.
Please include Race, Feats, Powers, etc in your suggestions…. Really – I am looking for all the help I can get.

[RubyApple]

Bards are weird as leaders. Yes, they have some pretty good buffs, and some really sweet party utility, but they are are almost as much a controller as they are a leader. The main attraction of bards, in my opinion, is their ability to pick up multiple multiclass feats, which not only gives you the ability to fill in your party's skill needs, but also comes along with some sweet benefits (the invoker multiclass gives you the Ritual Casting feat for free).

From what you're describing, it sounds like you want to play a laser cleric. Don't let the name fool you, a good laser cleric shoots very few lasers. The build is a pure wis-implement build, which leaves your ability points free to buy into some feat requirement or stack up on skill bonuses. They get multiple person heals somewhat earlier than other healers (Spirit of Healing is a nice utility 6 that offers sustained surge-free healing). But more importantly, they get a really nice suite of ranged spells which slap on some really nice debuffs/bufffs for your party. Their damage is mediocre at best, but if you stack up just a little bit of accuracy then you will be consistently pushing your team towards victory. Also, they get Ritual Casting for free, which is HUGE, especially as you get get up to level 5+.

As for shamans, I honestly don't know much about them. One of the players in my game played one once, and he said it was unimpressive. He told me they have a bunch of 'oh, that's neat' moments, and not very many 'omg shaman, you saved my life!' moments.

What resources do you have available? I can give you some feat/power suggestions that should help you get a feel for your role and put you on the right track.

Oh, and for when you need help in the future, never hesitate to look up a handbook. They are an essential tool to sorting out the gold from the... not so much gold?

Cleric Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/forum/4e-character-optimization/threads/2259786)
Bard Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2402306)
Shaman Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/forum/4e-character-optimization/threads/1962136) (looks like this one is way out of date)

[Held]

(the invoker multiclass gives you the Ritual Casting feat for free).

While nice, it's utterly pointless, as bards innately have ritual casting.

OP, what resources are you allowed to use?

[RubyApple]

While nice, it's utterly pointless, as bards innately have ritual casting.

OP, what resources are you allowed to use?

Lawl. I had no idea. I mostly play hybrids, and when I didn't I didn't even know ritual casting was a thing. XD

[Oddman80]

all wotc published books are available for the build.
I doubt dragon mag material will be ok'd - though i haven't been specifically told no for it.

For the record, this (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=891528) had been my level 1 cleric character. I had a pretty bad experience with it - and so I hesitate to roll up another cleric - unless you guys see something I did drastically wrong on the build, and could be viewed as the cause of my problems...

The group is pretty much all new players (the 1st level module being our first foray into 4e). The others don't really think much about ideal positioning, combat advantage, AoO, and whatnot, whereas that is often my first thought. As such, I was thinking that a character that could buff them, and also help move them into the best formations on the battle field would be beneficial to the group (is that the Cunning bard?)

I think buffs to help the group hit is better than buffs to protect the group - just based on what I was seeing during their play style - they would be much more frustrated that they didn't hit, than they would be because they got hit.

It looks like if i can get the others melee guys to take the Agile Opportunist Feat, i could really increase our damage output on each round.

I look forward to your advice

[RubyApple]

Yeah, if you can get your other party member to pick up Agile Opportunist in paragon, then bard is going to give your party a huge amount of extra damage output.

Bard doesn't have a ton of outright accuracy buffs, though they are pretty good at causing enemies to grant combat advantage (something that rogue that your mentioned will love you for).

Cleric
I don't think there's anything wrong with Cleric, I would just advise that you get out of melee and pick up an implement. Death's Shadow from Heroes of Shadow or Lance of Faith from the Player's handbook are both solid at-wills that will bolster your allies' accuracy. Sacred Flame is an at-will that let you grant healing or a saving throw to an ally when it hits. Gaze of Defiance is a very situational at-will that grants you allies a small bonus to hit the target (+1), but it increases to (+3) if the target hits you before your next turn. If you want to focus on one person becoming pretty accurate, I would grab Death Shadow or Lance of Faith, and if accuracy is a problem for your whole party, I would grab Gaze of Defiance. Either way, I would pick up Sacred Flame as your heal-y backup at-will.

For cleric encounters, I would pick up Exacting Utterance from Divine Power, Vengeful Flare (if dragon magazine content is an option), or Divine Glow from the Player's Handbook. Exacting utterance doesn't deal damage, but it causes the target to gain vulnerability to all damage and reward all your allies that hit it with some hit points until the end of your next turn. And divine glow is a nice close blast 3 that grants all allies in it a +2 to hit until your next turn, whether you hit with it or not.

For dailies, there's not really any great buffing powers, but Astral Condemnation is a sweet de-buffing power that basically guarantees that the target cannot deal damage until you fail to sustain the power. Really great for solos and elites.
Edit Also, astral condemnation doesn't have to hit to apply it's sweet, sweet debuff.

For the most part, utilities are up to your individual taste, but I suggest you take a look at Divine Aid, Return from Death's Door, and Resurgent Strength.

Give me a few minutes and I'll take a look at some bard stuff and see what I can find.

[RubyApple]

Bard
If you wanna play a bard, it's the same thing as a cleric: Stick to the implement. You will thank yourself for not depending on two weapon types, and you can stay out of melee to let your front line to their job.

Unfortunately, Bard's don't exactly have the best at-wills. They have the excellent Staggering Note, which pushes, deals a few points of damage and let's an ally hit it with a melee attack as a free action. Outside of that though, the option aren't great. You have Cutting Words which deals damage and pulls 2, Misdirected Mark which deals damage and lets an ally mark the target, and Vicious Mockery which deals damage and causes the target to take a -2 penalty on attack rolls before the end of your next turn.

For encounters, Focused Sound can really bring on the pain if your party is just a little lucky. Shout of Triumph can let you shuffle around the battlefield if you have Virtue of Valor. Blunder can set up some nice re-positioning and lets an ally smack the target, but I find that the same effect can be reached by re-positioning yourself and smacking them with Staggering Note.

For dailies, you have your first real accuracy boosting option, but it's not great. Satire of Fortune lets you re-roll one of your allies missed attacks against the target. Oh boy. I think the best choice here is Stirring Shout, which rewards allies with some hit points for smacking the target. Sounds just like an encounter power from the Cleric post. XD

I'm not even going to go into utilities. Bard doesn't really offer you any decent party buffs. They have some amazing utilities and dailies at higher levels, but they really are as close to a controller as they are a leader. If you're looking to buff up your party to help them hit, don't play a bard.

[RubyApple]

I was thinking about making a post for you about Shamans, but I opened up the class on the character builder, realized I don't know the first thing about them, then closed the builder. So instead, I'm gonna throw down some feats on you.

Improved Defenses is straight up amazing. It grants a +1/tier bonus to all defenses. It's not flashy, but you will never regret taking it. On anyone. Ever.

If you play a cleric, Holy Symbol expertise is pretty good. It make it so after using an implement power you can't grant combat advantage to your enemies unless a power you use or is used against you specifically says you grant combat advantage. Being prone, grabbed or being attacked by an invisible enemy all of a sudden means nothing to you. Oh, it also makes you more accurate with implement attacks.

If you have reckless allies and you play a cleric, grab Shielding Word. It grants an untyped bonus to an ally's defenses when you use healing word on them. Pretty dang good.

On the same note, Defensive Healing Word makes your healing word grants the target a significant bonus to all defenses for the next attack against them. The best part is, it stacks with Shielding Word.



Final note: If you have generally bad luck with rolls, try playing a human. The Heroic Effort encounter power they receive is amazing for turning a subpar roll into a hit and shaking off a pesky condition.

[masteraleph]

Bards are actually phenomenal enabling leaders.

As noted by Ruby Apple, the most enabling type is a Valor bard. Staggering Note is, as noted, a great power to grant a basic attack. Blunder is too, as an Encounter power. Echoing Weapon effectively grants an extra damage instance to an ally, and I'd go with Rhyme of the Blood Seeking Blade at level 3 or 7. A Sorcerer multi-class gets you daggers as an implement and it can double as a ranged weapon, as well.

There's not really a huge difference between bard types in heroic, but Valor bards get the first half of Paragon in a way that's head and shoulders over other bards, because of their Paragon Path War Chanter. If you have a way of getting action points every encounter (Sidhe Lord theme is often used, specifically the level 2 Utility), then the bonus you get from action pointing becomes very silly very quickly. Going towards higher levels, you can multiclass into different classes- the Warlord ones are very good, and you could potentially grab Hail of Steel at 17 to grant basic attacks all over the place.

If you want more controllery, Cunning bards are probably better, but they don't really get going until upper paragon.

[Held]

all wotc published books are available for the build.
I doubt dragon mag material will be ok'd - though i haven't been specifically told no for it.

For the record, this (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=891528) had been my level 1 cleric character. I had a pretty bad experience with it - and so I hesitate to roll up another cleric - unless you guys see something I did drastically wrong on the build, and could be viewed as the cause of my problems...

I'm pretty sure no amount of charop will save you when you consistently low awfully. Thankfully I'm an expert on the matter; I grow nostalgic when I remember the times I hit twice over the duration of a session. Wait, I hated that time.

Ruby's outlined some good stuff on the classes above. I'll talk about the Warlord a little, or rather, a Warlord that doesn't need to hit! We also call him the 'lazylord'. (Resources needed are the PHBs and Martial Power, maybe Martial Power 2.)

Basically what you do is, you pick standard Warlord attributes (combat leader for better initiative, standard armour proficiency because you still don't want to get hit!), and then your choice of either resourceful presence or tactical presence; I personally like the former, but the latter gives a no-questions asked +1/2 Int mod bonus to an attack roll if your allies use an Action Point. Generally solid. I like resourceful presence because it's a hefty damage boost on a hit, and a nifty tHP buffer on a miss.

For ability scores, don't bother with too much Strength: Make Intelligence your primary score. Why? Because your at-will powers will be commander's strike, which gives an Int bonus to damage rolls, and direct the strike, which uses no attributes at all. The kicker? Both of these let your allies attack instead of you. You can stack on bonuses to your to-hit, or you can just make them roll more often and correct any misses they may have suffered. Best of all, you don't have to roll, so don't fear the dice!

For your encounter power, pick powerful warning: again, you don't make a roll, your ally does. Finally, your daily should be lead by example, which is better on a miss. (and you'll miss)

Utility powers depend: if you picked resourceful presence, get adaptive stratagem. If you got tactical presence, well, I can't help you there. There's a bunch of good choices, and adaptive stratagem is still solid at the lower levels.

For feats, you can go wild and pick some you like; I'm pretty confident your group isn't going to be all about optimisation, but I personally like imaginative reaction from dragon magazine. If that's not an option, directing inspiration from martial power 2 gives ranged allies a +1 to attack rolls, whereas lend might lets allies who get a BA out of your commander's strike enjoy a +1 to attack rolls too.


Addendum:
What you can do with this type, for example, is go eladrin warlord, pick bonuses to Int and Cha, raise both of those to 18 post-racial and enjoy the benefits of not needing to hit at all ever. You're at your best when you grant others their attack rolls.

[GPuzzle]

Or you can MC Swordmage and poach Intelligent Blademaster to gain stuff like Vengeance is Mine and Death from Two Sides.

[Sartharina]

I love Tom the Dragonborn on the Drunks&Dragons podcast, but I think that if I go warlord, I will once again be a disservice to my party, trying to serve in melee, when we will clearly have that covered between the people who played ranger/rogue/fighter.As far as I can tell, this might make everyone love you even more - And Martial Power 2 makes Ranged warlords possible!

[Oddman80]

As far as I can tell, this might make everyone love you even more - And Martial Power 2 makes Ranged warlords possible!

Are you just talking about the one at-will power, "Paint the Bull's Eye"?

[GPuzzle]

Well, and Direct The Strike.

Personally, a mix of both is good. Get a dagger and throw it at people. It works. There's some pretty nice powers from the ranged set.

[Inevitability]

Well, and Direct The Strike.

Well, and all those other ranged powers. And the feats that let you turn some of the great melee powers into ranged ones.

[Oddman80]

Well, and all those other ranged powers. And the feats that let you turn some of the great melee powers into ranged ones.

Like which feats? And with which powers do they synergize well?

[RubyApple]

Like which feats? And with which powers do they synergize well?

I believe they are referring to the Adamant Arrow feat line
Adamant Arrow Student effects Nimble Strike, and Paint the Bulls-Eye.
Adamant Arrow Hunter effects Blow-Through Assault, Hammer Shot, Hunter’s Shot, Knockdown Shot, and Thwarting Shot.
Adamant Arrow Commander effects Deadly Inspiration, Denying Smite, Inspiring War Cry, Sunder Armor, Warlord's Doom, and Wounding Focus.

Have you considered playing a hybrid? I just finished up playing a Bard/Lazy Warlord that focused on using teleportation repositioning using Walk Among the Fey to turn slides into teleports. Bring along Moment of Escape with your utility 2 and the pick up Virtue of Cunning with Hybrid talent to get slides galore. It's a pretty solid build, especially if you botch attack rolls more often than not. Walk Among the Fey IS paragon however, but the build still works out nicely without it. It's not critical, just really good.

[Sartharina]

Are you just talking about the one at-will power, "Paint the Bull's Eye"?Archer Warlord (STR for Bow attacks instead of Dex, and proficiency with bows... at the cost of armor and shield proficiencies, obnoxiously.)

Any Warlord Presence, but especially Skirmisher Presence or Insightful Presence

At Will:Paint the Bullseye. Risky Shot. And weapon+range-agnostic Direct The Strike.
Encounter 1: Pin Cushion. Race The Arrow. And many Weapon+Range agnostic powers throughout MP 2 and previous books
Daily 1: Inspiring Shot. Relentless Wounding. And many Weapon+Range agnostic powers throughout MP 2 and previous books
Utility 2: ... just weapon+range agnostic powers throughout all books. But those are important too

And looking ahead throughout Heroic Tier:
Encounter 3: Deadly Distraction. Inspiring Shot. And Weapon+Range agnostic powers throughout previous books
Daily 5: Archery Commander. Create Opportunity. And Weapon+Range agnostic powers throughout previous books
Utility 6: ... just weapon+range agnostic powers throughout all books. But those are important too
Encounter 7: On My Mark. General's Gift. And many Weapon+Range agnostic powers throughout MP 2 and previous books
Daily 9: Eviscerating Shot. Tactical Withdrawal. And many Weapon+Range agnostic powers throughout MP 2 and previous books
Utility 10: ... just weapon+range agnostic powers throughout all books. But those are important too

[GPuzzle]

ArcherLord is pretty bad. Personally, I like a combo of Drow Long Knife+Hide+Shield, since Tactical is superior due to Battle Captain and the sheer numerical buffs people gain on APs but some Insightful and Skirmishing powers are awesome (RACE THE ARROW!).

Oh, and Reorient the Axis. That power's just THAT cool.

[Oddman80]

well... you have now totally lost me.

is any of what your saying relevant to a level 2 leader build, if so how... your not referencing any books, levels, classes... and it is much more difficult to track down 4e feats/powers than it is to do so for 3.5.

any additional specificity would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

[GPuzzle]

Actually it's a lot easier.

Here, have a Compendium:

http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/database.aspx

And yes, we're deviating a bit. Roll with a Warlord, they're fun.

[Dimers]

your not referencing any books, levels, classes... and it is much more difficult to track down 4e feats/powers than it is to do so for 3.5.

Finding what book something is in is relatively easy -- even without a DDI account, you can see where a power/feat/etc. was printed, you just can't view the text directly. If you want to try that out, go to http://www.wizards.com/dnd/subscription.aspx and click the "D&D Compendium" button.

But I don't think that's going to help out someone who's just trying to make a level 2 Leader-role character in a week starting from almost no previous 4e experience. Let's go back and look at what you've said so far, and see if that provides any direction.

The dice are out to get you. A completely non-rolling character isn't really a viable thing in 4e, but you can get closer -- especially at lower levels -- with a "lazylord"-style warlord than you can with any other class, at least given that your party is (was?) melee-oriented. Alternatively, you can build for accuracy, such that your hits can connect despite low rolls. That's not class-specific. It does imply melee, because flanking is by far the easiest way for a leader to get combat advantage to improve their own accuracy along with their party's. It's not at all bad to have a fourth melee character! More flanking opportunities, really, which means that even your move actions can aid your group as you get into position.

You want to buff your party to the gills. Well, there's only so much of that that's possible at second level, but you should go with warlord, shaman or bard for cherrypicking strong buffs starting early. Just don't expect every power to have a buff attached.

You like Tom the Dragonborn. I haven't partaken of the podcast, but I gotta tell you, dragonborn warlord is never a bad idea mechanically. A fourth melee character works fine, as I said before. And my first rule of optimization is "If you like what you're playing it doesn't have to be optimal anyway." So there's one more vote for warlord.

You want to help multiple party members at once. For low levels that's probably the domain of the shaman, specifically predator shaman, a Wis+Int build.

The party doesn't think about tactical movement. That suggests bard to me because that's the easiest way (at low levels) to put everyone where you want them to be.

The party love to hit and don't mind being hit. Warlord is the best way to hand out attacks to other people, so if you don't care much about getting hits in yourself, go for lazylord.

You want to optimize, e.g. getting synergy between feats and powers. Well, level 2 doesn't give you a lot of leeway for optimizing, but once again, melee warlord is the strongest possibility, with plenty of room to grow.

All in all, it looks very much like you want a warlord, possibly one with "lazy" potential in case your dice curse continues. Then, your race ... What's both simple and optimal is to go with a combination you've already seen a good example of -- dragonborn melee warlord. It works, it really does.

If you want to make sure you have ranged options as well, you can take a heavy thrown weapon with the Distance Weapon enchantment as one of your starting magic items -- that plus some kind of enchanted melee weapon that has a +3 proficiency bonus so your personal accuracy is as good as possible. The heavy thrown weapon lets you use Strength for ranged attacks, while the enchantment makes the weapon go a lot farther and then come back to your hand so you only need one.

I'm not the guy to ask about specifics for a warlord build; I can only tell you dragonborn warlord fits what you've said you want. (The stuff about the weapons is just general advice.) Tell us what's important to you from this list, and I'm sure someone else here can chime in with good optimization for it.

never having to roll
taking advantage of different tactical situations
cutting an awesome figure
actively buffing allies
passively buffing allies
healing
having great accuracy yourself
maximizing your party's damage total in whatever way
something else: FITB __________________

[GPuzzle]

In case you go Dragonborn, use Bravura Presence.

But anyway, Intuitive Strike (Flank and add a huge buff to a character - possibly +5!) is good, Direct the Strike is when you need to make an ally attack, Lamb To Slaughter (Dragon Magazine) is a very good bet for your daily, and the two Immediate attacks at level 1 are pretty grand (Powerful Warning and Vengeance is Mine), so I reccomend you take both of those. For your level 2... No idea. Knight's Move is decent if anyone has minor action attacks, but even then it takes a while for them to pile up on those. An extra move action would be good if anyone needs to shift away, though.

[Held]

It's hard to tell exactly what you're looking for, OP. You've been given quite a few lengthy responses to which you haven't deigned to respond or which you haven't even acknowledged at all.

Being specific about which of the leaders at least has most of your current interest would be helpful. Are you sold on Bard, do you want to give Cleric another try, or do you think Warlord merits use after all?

[Oddman80]

snip

Thanks Dimers!

[Oddman80]

It's hard to tell exactly what you're looking for, OP. You've been given quite a few lengthy responses to which you haven't deigned to respond or which you haven't even acknowledged at all.

Being specific about which of the leaders at least has most of your current interest would be helpful. Are you sold on Bard, do you want to give Cleric another try, or do you think Warlord merits use after all?

well, sheesh! There was a whole lot of information to take in, now, wasn't there? :smalltongue:
I spent over 4 hours last night just trying to track down all the feats mentioned in the posts thus far, while also trying to pore over the Bard handbook...

The Warlord looks really cool - and I might end up with one.... but right now I have been working on a bard build.
(I don't understand hor there can be SO LITTLE information about, or evidence of people playing the shaman!)

If I can get at least two of the three melee party members to get the Agile Opportunist feat, and pair that with the Shout of Triumph encounter power, and the Battle Song Expertise feat, and we can start off any encounter in a tight formation and quickly deal a huge amount of damage in the first round before proceeding to spread out.

Here's the character sheet (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=967213) as it stands so far. I think all I have left to do is pick a level 2 feat and a Level 2 Utility Power.

[GPuzzle]

I reccomend Magic Weapon with Adept Dilletante+Versatile Master, and with Slick Conocotion. It's extremely good with War Chanter as your PP, since it's basically +6 to hit and +10 to damage with positioning at level 11 when you AP.

[Dimers]

I think all I have left to do is pick a level 2 feat and a Level 2 Utility Power.

I see Song Of Courage for level 2 utility ...? If you're thinking of switching that out, Battle Feint is more flavorful and can be used once per encounter. It's a "skill power", meaning you can only take it if you're trained in the right skill, but it doesn't matter what your class is. More specifically, it's a Bluff skill power that lets you roll your Bluff skill to improve an ally's attack. Song Of Courage is probably mechanically better, particularly if your polyhedral plague persists, but is not so interesting. Moment Of Escape bard utility is another good choice so you can impose tactical placement even if your fellow players continue to lack clue in that department.

I'd suggest switching from Dilettante to Knack For Success for your half-elf racial power. Instead of copying someone else's at-will attack once in a while, you can boost an ally (or yourself) in a few useful ways -- an extra save, an extra 2-square shift, +2 attack or +4 skill, choose one once per encounter. I'm sure your friends would love the attack bonus.

Feats ... Battle Cadence for a little more movement and buffing of allies ... Saving Breath is good, but it's defensive so your party wouldn't care as much ... ditto Improved Majestic Word ... Binding Initiate would give you an extra skill training, another Charisma-based attack (though without benefit of the magical songblade and the Expertise feat) per encounter, and another utility per encounter that triggers when you drop a creature or one drops adjacent to you. I'd probably go with that or Battle Cadence.


I reccomend Magic Weapon with Adept Dilletante+Versatile Master, and with Slick Conocotion. It's extremely good with War Chanter as your PP, since it's basically +6 to hit and +10 to damage with positioning at level 11 when you AP.

*cough*Level2*cough* :smallamused:



EDIT: Oh yeah! Another great choice for the level 2 feat is Skill Power feat, which you can take one time to give you an extra utility. So you could have a bard class utility AND a skill utility.

[GPuzzle]

Tell them to always stay near you.

Have Adept Dilletante.

Use Magic Weapon, move to where you can get all of them in Shout of Triumph, AP, Shout of Triumph.

Repositioning+Buff.

[Inevitability]

Tell them to always stay near you.

Have Adept Dilletante.

Use Magic Weapon, move to where you can get all of them in Shout of Triumph, AP, Shout of Triumph.

Repositioning+Buff.

You missed the part where you explained how you are getting to use an encounter power twice per encounter. And how you avoid having the whole party get caught in an area effect if they 'stay near you'.

[Oddman80]

EDIT: Oh yeah! Another great choice for the level 2 feat is Skill Power feat, which you can take one time to give you an extra utility. So you could have a bard class utility AND a skill utility.

Oh, I like this!
Before seeing your post, I was going to go with the boring (but useful) Improved Defenses... But getting an extra power seems really useful. I couldn't find Battle Feint text anywhere. Can you tell me what it does?

Quick update, the guy who played the ranger is switching to Barbarian, the Half Elf Rogue is staying Rogue, and the Dwarf Fighter is going with Warden this time. I have no cle what the Psion is doing... She doesn't chat with the rest of us (she comes with the DM)

The Knack for Success ability is CLEARLY better for my party than me getting Eyebite through Dilettante. I had just picked Eyebite, as I thought it a useful power in case a high hp enemy came after me and my allies were too spread out to help. It was more of a "just in case" power.

[GPuzzle]

You missed the part where you explained how you are getting to use an encounter power twice per encounter. And how you avoid having the whole party get caught in an area effect if they 'stay near you'.

Try to beat Initiative.

Minor: Natural Terrain Understanding
Standard: Magic Weapon
Move: Move two squares backward.
ACTION POINT
Standard: Shout of Triumph.

Now your allies have a good to-hit, are positioned, and deal a buttload of damage.

[Laserlight]

Have a dice champion. "I will not be rolling my own dice. Paul will be rolling his dice on my behalf."

Worked for our warlock.

[Dimers]

I couldn't find Battle Feint text anywhere. Can you tell me what it does?

You make an opposed check, Bluff vs Insight, against one enemy beside you, while you also have an ally beside you. If your check wins, that ally gets CA against that enemy. The potential for CA is nice for the Rogue and it's a stronger bonus than Song Of Courage. But Battle Feint isn't guaranteed to work, requires some positioning, doesn't help several allies at once, and has no benefit if the ally would get CA anyway.


Quick update, the guy who played the ranger is switching to Barbarian, the Half Elf Rogue is staying Rogue, and the Dwarf Fighter is going with Warden this time.

Good. That's still at least two characters with a strong MBA to take advantage of your Staggering Note.

[Oddman80]

You make an opposed check, Bluff vs Insight, against one enemy beside you, while you also have an ally beside you. If your check wins, that ally gets CA against that enemy. The potential for CA is nice for the Rogue and it's a stronger bonus than Song Of Courage. But Battle Feint isn't guaranteed to work, requires some positioning, doesn't help several allies at once, and has no benefit if the ally would get CA anyway.



Good. That's still at least two characters with a strong MBA to take advantage of your Staggering Note.

Thank you for your help.
I think i'm going to keep Song of Courage. The zone of effect is hard to beat - as it can really help out the entire party and for an indefinite amount of time (so long as i have a spare minor action in subsequent rounds).. And i think I can give it some nice flavor in my own description:

Master Bowie starts to sing a complicated series of notes... At first they seem to be nonsense, but as the cacophony of echoes bounce off the cavern walls, the notes coalesce into a harmony recognizable to all of his allies: Ah yes - it is the intro to his hit "Under Pressure". The rhythm of the notes sets the pace for his allies as they move forward in battle. Whether through magic or sheer musical talent, these same notes and echoes clash in a dissonant wave of noise in the ears of all enemies, causing alarm and confusion among David's foes.
Tell me that isn't Flavorful! And yeah... I am totally making David Bowie my Half Elf Bard.

Ziggy Stardust was from the Forgotten Realms. He had shown great promise in his youth for the arcane musical arts. At the age of 18 he received a mysterious gift. It was a magical shirt that allowed him to 'blink' to another dimension. He spent a fair amount of time in this other dimension. There, the people adored him - they treated him with reverence for his musical powers. It was during his time there that he took on the name David Bowie, as Ziggy Stardust aparently was a bit of an unusual name for that realm.
After several years of stardom, David chose to use the magical shirt again, and return to his home in the Forgotten Realms. Much had happened since he left. and any renown he had built in years before, was now completely gone. The people in his home realm didn't treat him with the reverence he had grown used to, and his heart turned cold. He became a hermit, and changed his name to Jareth. He used his musical charms to take control of a band of goblins up in the The Tortured Land. They treated him like a king. But that was a dark chapter in his life - one that he would rather forget about.
Today, he is recognized by many in the Forgotten Realms, but by no means holds the notoriety he once did. He sees that his winter years are quickly approaching, and does not think that the good he has done in this world yet outweighs the harm he once caused during those dark years... he is looking to fix that imbalance. And he is looking to end his great story on a high note - which is why he has shifted the focus of his life to adventuring, and not just mere entertainment.
Now. since i have been so lazy in my outsourcing of character development ideas... what are the most useful rituals to have? I used make whole once when i was a cleric in the last module (fixing a door we broke down). Thoughts?

[GPuzzle]

I approve of your music choices.

[VeliciaL]

Thank you for your help.
I think i'm going to keep Song of Courage. The zone of effect is hard to beat - as it can really help out the entire party and for an indefinite amount of time (so long as i have a spare minor action in subsequent rounds).. And i think I can give it some nice flavor in my own description:

Master Bowie starts to sing a complicated series of notes... At first they seem to be nonsense, but as the cacophony of echoes bounce off the cavern walls, the notes coalesce into a harmony recognizable to all of his allies: Ah yes - it is the intro to his hit "Under Pressure". The rhythm of the notes sets the pace for his allies as they move forward in battle. Whether through magic or sheer musical talent, these same notes and echoes clash in a dissonant wave of noise in the ears of all enemies, causing alarm and confusion among David's foes.
Tell me that isn't Flavorful! And yeah... I am totally making David Bowie my Half Elf Bard.

Ziggy Stardust was from the Forgotten Realms. He had shown great promise in his youth for the arcane musical arts. At the age of 18 he received a mysterious gift. It was a magical shirt that allowed him to 'blink' to another dimension. He spent a fair amount of time in this other dimension. There, the people adored him - they treated him with reverence for his musical powers. It was during his time there that he took on the name David Bowie, as Ziggy Stardust aparently was a bit of an unusual name for that realm.
After several years of stardom, David chose to use the magical shirt again, and return to his home in the Forgotten Realms. Much had happened since he left. and any renown he had built in years before, was now completely gone. The people in his home realm didn't treat him with the reverence he had grown used to, and his heart turned cold. He became a hermit, and changed his name to Jareth. He used his musical charms to take control of a band of goblins up in the The Tortured Land. They treated him like a king. But that was a dark chapter in his life - one that he would rather forget about.
Today, he is recognized by many in the Forgotten Realms, but by no means holds the notoriety he once did. He sees that his winter years are quickly approaching, and does not think that the good he has done in this world yet outweighs the harm he once caused during those dark years... he is looking to fix that imbalance. And he is looking to end his great story on a high note - which is why he has shifted the focus of his life to adventuring, and not just mere entertainment.
Now. since i have been so lazy in my outsourcing of character development ideas... what are the most useful rituals to have? I used make whole once when i was a cleric in the last module (fixing a door we broke down). Thoughts?

This is perfect. THat's... all I really have to say.