8 mages holding back an ancient horror.

[sideswipe]

hi playground, could any of you spare a cup of optimisation and advice?

ok, one of the main points of the next campaign i am running is that you are in a kingdom with heavy laws but fair enough. and each town is ruled by a lord and his "inquisition" a sort of secret police.
your lord has acknowledged your skill and has initiated you into his inquisition. your town's inhabitants are all well aware of how harsh the laws are and are more awake to the goings on in the world then the average commoners.
when you are inducted you are told that your lord plans to fight against the king and the kingdom in secret, and establish a free state that is fair and prosperous. rather than tax heavy and strict. and so starts the campaign, at level 3 you are tackling insurgents from other "inquisitions" and spys who may be suspicious.

the other part is that there are 8 parts around the kingdom where 8 mages live in their towers and such, the party's objective when they get to higher levels is to kill these as they are a lynchpin in the kings grasp on his kingdom. the mages are high power enforcers.
i am wanting to have all of the mages between levels 8-12. and each one a wizard, sorcerer or similar class as an uber specialist in a different school of magic.

so if 8 wizards, each a focused specialist (dump 3 other schools) at what they do. the weaker schools will obviously be advised to be tackled first.
the hidden information is that the wizards and the king do what they need to do because they are maintaining a sort of ritual that is keeping a homebrew eldar evil imprisoned, one who if unleashed would have god like powers.

my questions, is there any RAW way of doing this or am i goint to just have it as a story plot-fu?

and the next one. can you give advise on each of the 8 mages, classes, abilities, ACF's, feats, races and spells and any advise on how they use it to be powerful?

im not looking for uber OP mages, just specialists who are powerful. they will all be bosses in adventures.

thanks in advance guys.

[Cowardly Griffo]

Incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htmhttp://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm) might be the way to go?

It's a specific effect with specific requirements and specific consequences for failure, none of which necessarily mimic existing spell effects exactly. Seems like a pretty good fit. Though it's still basically homebrew, it's just homebrew with a bit of rules to support it.

[illyahr]

Have you ever played Dragon Quest 8? Similar circumstances: eight specialists, descended from eight sages, maintain and protect mystic jewels that seal up an elder evil. An evil magician is brainwashed and goes around killing the guardians and the MC has to stop him.

Each of the guardians wasn't a wizard. One was a noble knight, one a wizard, another was a priest, another, a successful warrior who opened up a casino. Maybe you could make each of the targets a member of an adventuring party, covering all the aspects of DnD. Make one a rogue, one a wizard, one a ranger etc. Each target would have its own area or keep that the party would have to navigate to reach their goal.

[Hazrond]

hi playground, could any of you spare a cup of optimisation and advice?

ok, one of the main points of the next campaign i am running is that you are in a kingdom with heavy laws but fair enough. and each town is ruled by a lord and his "inquisition" a sort of secret police.
your lord has acknowledged your skill and has initiated you into his inquisition. your town's inhabitants are all well aware of how harsh the laws are and are more awake to the goings on in the world then the average commoners.
when you are inducted you are told that your lord plans to fight against the king and the kingdom in secret, and establish a free state that is fair and prosperous. rather than tax heavy and strict. and so starts the campaign, at level 3 you are tackling insurgents from other "inquisitions" and spys who may be suspicious.

the other part is that there are 8 parts around the kingdom where 8 mages live in their towers and such, the party's objective when they get to higher levels is to kill these as they are a lynchpin in the kings grasp on his kingdom. the mages are high power enforcers.
i am wanting to have all of the mages between levels 8-12. and each one a wizard, sorcerer or similar class as an uber specialist in a different school of magic.

so if 8 wizards, each a focused specialist (dump 3 other schools) at what they do. the weaker schools will obviously be advised to be tackled first.
the hidden information is that the wizards and the king do what they need to do because they are maintaining a sort of ritual that is keeping a homebrew eldar evil imprisoned, one who if unleashed would have god like powers.

my questions, is there any RAW way of doing this or am i goint to just have it as a story plot-fu?

and the next one. can you give advise on each of the 8 mages, classes, abilities, ACF's, feats, races and spells and any advise on how they use it to be powerful?

im not looking for uber OP mages, just specialists who are powerful. they will all be bosses in adventures.

thanks in advance guys.

I reccomend that the divination specialist teleport directly into the center of them when they are planning the siege against his tower :smalltongue:, have him bring a bunch of summons or something and essentially turn their plan into chaos

[Cowardly Griffo]

I was kind of worried about similar things, actually. Might I suggest Divine Guardian (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/divine-guardian-template) as a place to start for keeping them in their towers? It makes them powerful within their home turf and provides a rationale to keep them from leaving the towers when they hear their co-workers are getting killed. Or hear that their co-workers are going to get killed, for the diviner.

[sideswipe]

well they will have their hands full with other issues, so the party are a concern only when attacking, i was going to make the diviner the first target. and i was going to have him do things similar to what you said, but maybe not as bad. he will be level 8. preventing teleport, but maybe dim doors are fine.

[Hazrond]

well they will have their hands full with other issues, so the party are a concern only when attacking, i was going to make the diviner the first target. and i was going to have him do things similar to what you said, but maybe not as bad. he will be level 8. preventing teleport, but maybe dim doors are fine.

maybe make him number 3? you could put abjuration and illusions before him that way he gets a bit more of the proper tactics for a diviner :smallbiggrin:

[sideswipe]

maybe make him number 3? you could put abjuration and illusions before him that way he gets a bit more of the proper tactics for a diviner :smallbiggrin:

elaborate please i don't quite follow. i just know that if he knows they are a problem then he can plague them. if he doesn't know they are coming he has little time to prepare, but still more then most. like a day or two, over say 8 hours the rest get from spies.

[Hazrond]

elaborate please i don't quite follow. i just know that if he knows they are a problem then he can plague them. if he doesn't know they are coming he has little time to prepare, but still more then most. like a day or two, over say 8 hours the rest get from spies.

in my mind proper tactics include watching how they act and fight and while informing the other mages of their weaknesses, and tactics that he has seen, besides it would also give you a bit of leeway with making the two before him better prepared because he warned them, as for tactics i would imagine him using illusions and conjurations to work off of the weaknesses he observed if they are going in his tower, he could also be used as a bit of help for the first two, teleporting in and inevitably running when he doesnt have the firepower to beat the party

Edit: trying so hard not to suggest scry and die :smallwink:

[Vorandril]

elaborate please i don't quite follow. i just know that if he knows they are a problem then he can plague them. if he doesn't know they are coming he has little time to prepare, but still more then most. like a day or two, over say 8 hours the rest get from spies.

A Diviner isn't a weak caster. The whole point of the school is that it warns you about things like being ambushed and keeps the caster quite well informed. In the long term perspective of things the Diviner is probably the most dangerous one the players could go up against because their magic would let them know of a possible attack weeks before the PC's even plan it and becomes more and more sure of it the closer they get to the PC's actually MAKING the plan.

Sure a Diviner isn't AS strong in a slap-fight. But that's because they're the Batman of wizards. They don't have to be as strong as Superman. They have the knowledge before the fight even happens so they bring the kryptonite.

In fact, the Diviner may even already know that the lord the PC's work for is planning a rebellion since it would be something that directly impedes their ability to maintain the prison.

[sideswipe]

in my mind proper tactics include watching how they act and fight and while informing the other mages of their weaknesses, and tactics that he has seen, besides it would also give you a bit of leeway with making the two before him better prepared because he warned them, as for tactics i would imagine him using illusions and conjurations to work off of the weaknesses he observed if they are going in his tower, he could also be used as a bit of help for the first two, teleporting in and inevitably running when he doesnt have the firepower to beat the party

Edit: trying so hard not to suggest scry and die :smallwink:

i have already said that i want him level 8 (one level before teleport) so he cannot help the first ones if he is not first. but he can help them prepare.

also i know scry and die is a thing, but i really have never ever looked at what it actually is.

edit. just read it. im not giving him teleport :smallbiggrin:

[Hazrond]

A Diviner isn't a weak caster. The whole point of the school is that it warns you about things like being ambushed and keeps the caster quite well informed. In the long term perspective of things the Diviner is probably the most dangerous one the players could go up against because their magic would let them know of a possible attack weeks before the PC's even plan it and becomes more and more sure of it the closer they get to the PC's actually MAKING the plan.

Sure a Diviner isn't AS strong in a slap-fight. But that's because they're the Batman of wizards. They don't have to be as strong as Superman. They have the knowledge before the fight even happens so they bring the kryptonite.

In fact, the Diviner may even already know that the lord the PC's work for is planning a rebellion since it would be something that directly impedes their ability to maintain the prison.

Glad there was someone around to explain it better than i can, but yeah maybe save the diviner for later on, let him be a plot point, the players realize he has been helping the others as they are getting attacked, like how the abjurer knows to target dispel the wizard and get rid of those nasty contingencies (Example, not sure if they are high enough level when they met the abjurer)

[Hazrond]

i have already said that i want him level 8 (one level before teleport) so he cannot help the first ones if he is not first. but he can help them prepare.

also i know scry and die is a thing, but i really have never ever looked at what it actually is.

edit. just read it. im not giving him teleport :smallbiggrin:

Scry an enemy, look at the area around them, teleport to them, attack

[Hazrond]

i have already said that i want him level 8 (one level before teleport) so he cannot help the first ones if he is not first. but he can help them prepare.

also i know scry and die is a thing, but i really have never ever looked at what it actually is.

edit. just read it. im not giving him teleport :smallbiggrin:

Basically the diviner would be the ultimate threat detection system for the mages, he knows someone is gonna attack his base before THEY know :smallwink:

[sideswipe]

Glad there was someone around to explain it better than i can, but yeah maybe save the diviner for later on, let him be a plot point, the players realize he has been helping the others as they are getting attacked, like how the abjurer knows to target dispel the wizard and get rid of those nasty contingencies (Example, not sure if they are high enough level when they met the abjurer)

ok, well this was why i was going to imply they go and deal with him first. get as much of a "surprise" as possible to get on a divination expert. giving him less time to divine and inform the rest and the enemies. if he is out of the way, it becomes a campaign to hunt down, not a "8 high power wizards turn up". on the other hand, i could leave it as a major plot point.

problem is we play relatively low OP games. i have made the characters a bit more high OP then they would play as relative beginners. and they start at level 3. i wont be getting them to chase any amount of wizards until level 6-7.

any suggestions on how to get around the diviner knowing everything they do? the people who are suspicious are a mundane nearby lord. not any of the wizards.

[Vorandril]

Scry an enemy, look at the area around them, teleport to them, attack

Teleport in, Ethereal Jaunt, and then start mind controlling people in heavy armor. Make a Suggestion that the caster of the party has too much insight. They must be working with the other wizards. They should be detained and interogated.

Once the fighter/rogue/barbarian whatever beats the snot out of the casters, jump back in and start hitting them with spells where the only defense is will saves. Or invisibility with Ranged Touch spells.

Or just teleport in and drop a series of Delayed Blast Fireballs and then on the last round when they detonate just cast a normal fireball. The Rogue won't make all 5 saving throws.

[Vorandril]

Any suggestions on how to get around the diviner knowing everything they do? the people who are suspicious are a mundane nearby lord. not any of the wizards.

That's unfortunately like asking how to stop an Evoker from blowing things up. "How do I keep the whole point of the caster from doing the stuff they do."

My best suggestion for if you don't wanna have it be as powerful as it should be, just skip the Diviner being around. Say the lord the PC's work for had a second group that was equipped specifically to deal with the Diviner by having things like anti-magic necklaces or some such. Which conveniently get destroyed in their fight with the Diviner.

[Hazrond]

ok, well this was why i was going to imply they go and deal with him first. get as much of a "surprise" as possible to get on a divination expert. giving him less time to divine and inform the rest and the enemies. if he is out of the way, it becomes a campaign to hunt down, not a "8 high power wizards turn up". on the other hand, i could leave it as a major plot point.

problem is we play relatively low OP games. i have made the characters a bit more high OP then they would play as relative beginners. and they start at level 3. i wont be getting them to chase any amount of wizards until level 6-7.

any suggestions on how to get around the diviner knowing everything they do? the people who are suspicious are a mundane nearby lord. not any of the wizards.

You should make the Transmuter the final boss and when he on his last legs (like a few HP left) he casts Teleport Through Time (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b) using Eschew Materials and the party has to hunt him down in the past where it turns out HE founded the mage order keeping it imprisoned! :smallcool:

Edit: also the "Eldritch abomination" is actually the party, from the future/past :smallamused:

[sideswipe]

You should make the Transmuter the final boss and when he on his last legs (like a few HP left) he casts Teleport Through Time (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b) using Eschew Materials and the party has to hunt him down in the past where it turns out HE founded the mage order keeping it imprisoned! :smallcool:

Edit: also the "Eldritch abomination" is actually the party, from the future/past :smallamused:

cool ideas, i may use some of them. but if at all possible i am really set on this idea of 1 mage from each school.
the diviner would have to know something is up or a rumour before he could divine the party though right? any spells 4th or lower that don't require at least some information?

[Hazrond]

cool ideas, i may use some of them. but if at all possible i am really set on this idea of 1 mage from each school.
the diviner would have to know something is up or a rumour before he could divine the party though right? any spells 4th or lower that don't require at least some information?

im pretty sure he could use one of the yes/no divinations to figure if anybody is plannin anything against him then proceed to narrow things from there :smallsmile:

[sideswipe]

im pretty sure he could use one of the yes/no divinations to figure if anybody is plannin anything against him then proceed to narrow things from there :smallsmile:

yes but being the kings diviner and having an entire section of the country to maintain he wouldn't have much resources to spend on it. thats my thinking. he is busy until it gets to the point that he cannot ignore it.

so what about the rest?

[Vorandril]

yes but being the kings diviner and having an entire section of the country to maintain he wouldn't have much resources to spend on it. thats my thinking. he is busy until it gets to the point that he cannot ignore it.

so what about the rest?
Wizards can prepare their spells every day. And if the king is so concerned about maintaining that the big bad monster is kept in prison not only would the wizards all work in coordination with one another, but the wizards would have the backing of the kingdom's pocketbook, right?

Having something this important to deal with, the Diviner would have the time and resources to cast his spells even once a week. He would have to. If not, it would only make sense to leave the management responsibilities to some Lord that takes care of the area and let the wizards do their thing. Cast a couple simple spells once a week and if an alarm goes off, he starts looking into it. Plus Contingency is a thing, "If a plot against my life is made by individuals capable of storming my tower, start flashing red lights through the tower." Oversimplified but the idea is sound.

Ultimately the issue I think comes down to the fact that the players are being set up in a lose-lose situation if they stay with this upstart lord. By staying on that lord's side they limit themselves to the options of
1) We succeed and get the wizards out of the way and make it so we can secede from the kingdom. which leads to, "oops, did we accidentally Cthulhu in ur kingdom?"
2) Leave the wizards alive or fail in killing them, and be executed as traitors to the crown.

The only way this ends even KINDA well for them is if they catch wind of what the wizards actually are there for, and switch sides or leave. Not saying it can't be done as a fun and engaging game. But this is one where you will have to tread VERY carefully. Not every game needs to be set up for the PC's to win, but setting them up to fail is usually a bad idea.

Now as for the Necromancer, I suggest that the guy has on the third or 4th floor of his tower a wide open room. When someone crosses it without speaking the proper password a Dimension Door trap goes off. Teleporting them into a room nearby that happens to be full of a ton of uncontrolled zombies whos last order was "Eat every living thing but me." before the wizard released them from his control.
Should they survive that and manage to get back to the tower, he has a hydra zombie as a personal bodyguard. Keep in mind, wizard necromancers don't prepare things like Raise Dead every day. That's something clerics are better at. Wizards are better at things like stealing your soul, and using it as a spell reagent to kill the rest of the party.

For the Diviner I really do suggest just letting a group of NPC's handle that one and let the anti-scry items that they had be destroyed in the fight with him, so that you don't have to justify why the PC's don't get them.

[Phelix-Mu]

I'd suggest having the diviner be a non-combat opportunity. While slaying all the mages is the goal, perhaps the key to that goal is to first get rid of their threat-detection system. And how to do that when they can (in theory) detect threats well in advance, and in fact specialize in such? Well, better go for a more non-threatening approach.

So, once the pcs start looking into how to best take down a diviner, they learn some variety of "don't", and maybe investigate other avenues aside from getting the drop on Mr/Mrs Well-Prepared. I'd suggest bribery, corruption, seduction, conversion, diplomacy, or extortion as the go-to methods that might work out, but you don't want to leave too many breadcrumbs to the answer to the problem. A big strength of out-of-combat threats is that it encourages players to use characterization and problem-solving to shape how their characters are acting, as opposed to [optimal attack routine] at everything that register "foe" on their interface.

Extra points if the party can actually convince the diviner to help them, as opposed to just stand aside and let the plan against the rest of the mages have the best chance of success. If it were my campaign, this would be the back-door for an unexpected romantic involvement. Let's see. Having it be between the diviner and the character might be a bit on-the-nose. Perhaps it is between the apprentice/lover of the diviner, who doesn't want to see their master harmed, and who is attracted to one of the party members. Torn, the apprentice undermines their master, hoping to save the life that is so dear to their heart from being harmed by this new soulmate that the apprentice has found.

Subplots for the win.

[sideswipe]

1) We succeed and get the wizards out of the way and make it so we can secede from the kingdom. which leads to, "oops, did we accidentally Cthulhu in ur kingdom?"


the lord is a worshipper of the "chuthulu type" and is trying to get it unleashed. he is a very reasonably powerful lord.
im hoping that the end of it they will end up switching sides, or continuing with the release. its the parties choice. and if they switch and fail to keep it trapped (after killing too many wizards to keep the trap) then it becomes a god killing campaign. in which "chuthulu" will be the equivalent of a level 20 caster with a divine rank. gods in my system are unstated.


I'd suggest having the diviner be a non-combat opportunity. While slaying all the mages is the goal, perhaps the key to that goal is to first get rid of their threat-detection system. And how to do that when they can (in theory) detect threats well in advance, and in fact specialize in such? Well, better go for a more non-threatening approach.

So, once the pcs start looking into how to best take down a diviner, they learn some variety of "don't", and maybe investigate other avenues aside from getting the drop on Mr/Mrs Well-Prepared. I'd suggest bribery, corruption, seduction, conversion, diplomacy, or extortion as the go-to methods that might work out, but you don't want to leave too many breadcrumbs to the answer to the problem. A big strength of out-of-combat threats is that it encourages players to use characterization and problem-solving to shape how their characters are acting, as opposed to [optimal attack routine] at everything that register "foe" on their interface.

Extra points if the party can actually convince the diviner to help them, as opposed to just stand aside and let the plan against the rest of the mages have the best chance of success. If it were my campaign, this would be the back-door for an unexpected romantic involvement. Let's see. Having it be between the diviner and the character might be a bit on-the-nose. Perhaps it is between the apprentice/lover of the diviner, who doesn't want to see their master harmed, and who is attracted to one of the party members. Torn, the apprentice undermines their master, hoping to save the life that is so dear to their heart from being harmed by this new soulmate that the apprentice has found.

Subplots for the win.

this sounds good. i think they will have plenty of opportunities to go around obstacles. i will make sure they are there. with the party built the way they are this will be a good thing to have.

do you guys think that this is a bit beyond what the PC's can do? and would it be a fun campaign?

any improvements/re writes you guys could suggest?

[firebrandtoluc]

If the wizards are optimized, your PCs are gonna have a rough time. Even if they're optimized too. Unless the whole party is wizards anyway. In a low OP campaign with low OP wizards vs low OP PCs this idea is certainly reasonable and could be fun. Remember that even focused specialists have more than one school though. Most will likely be capable of divination.

[sideswipe]

If the wizards are optimized, your PCs are gonna have a rough time. Even if they're optimized too. Unless the whole party is wizards anyway. In a low OP campaign with low OP wizards vs low OP PCs this idea is certainly reasonable and could be fun. Remember that even focused specialists have more than one school though. Most will likely be capable of divination.

yeh, the wizards will not be high optimisation, i moreso want nice fluffy ACF for each wizard past immediate magic and the basic metamagics.

what about a combat wizard for the abjuration specialist and the transmutation one? as in trade wizard feats for fighter ones? i think it might make for a decent fight to have the transmuter polymorph (no abuse) and possibly the abjurer an abjurant champion.

[Hazrond]

yeh, the wizards will not be high optimisation, i moreso want nice fluffy ACF for each wizard past immediate magic and the basic metamagics.

what about a combat wizard for the abjuration specialist and the transmutation one? as in trade wizard feats for fighter ones? i think it might make for a decent fight to have the transmuter polymorph (no abuse) and possibly the abjurer an abjurant champion.

You should give the transmutation specialist all 5 levels of Warshaper (http://dndtools.eu/classes/warshaper/), that way you can be polymorphing into all sorts of things as long as the duration lasts :smallbiggrin:, for extra coolness have him persist the polymorph and go ham with it :smallbiggrin:

[sideswipe]

You should give the transmutation specialist all 5 levels of Warshaper (http://dndtools.eu/classes/warshaper/), that way you can be polymorphing into all sorts of things as long as the duration lasts :smallbiggrin:, for extra coolness have him persist the polymorph and go ham with it :smallbiggrin:

persist would mean i would have to make him able to cast epic spells or get meta magic reduction. (the latter is easy) but i want them all to be level 8-10 initially, if the PC's grow too high they will grow a little too. so the PC's may end up with fighting them at level 15 ish. but its not intended.

[jiriku]

I'd agree with your plan, but comment that instead of attacking the diviner first because he's weakest, they're attacking him first because he's most dangerous. If they can catch him off-guard by hitting him while they're still relative unknowns and he's not looking for them specifically, success will be much easier than if they attack after some of his buddies have been killed and he's gone into "paranoid wizard tower defense" mode.

In general, I'd say you have a good plan except that eight sequential "invade the tower and kill the wizard" missions could get repetitive. Make sure you mix it up a little by giving them interesting stuff to do in between tower assaults.

[sideswipe]

I'd agree with your plan, but comment that instead of attacking the diviner first because he's weakest, they're attacking him first because he's most dangerous. If they can catch him off-guard by hitting him while they're still relative unknowns and he's not looking for them specifically, success will be much easier than if they attack after some of his buddies have been killed and he's gone into "paranoid wizard tower defense" mode.

In general, I'd say you have a good plan except that eight sequential "invade the tower and kill the wizard" missions could get repetitive. Make sure you mix it up a little by giving them interesting stuff to do in between tower assaults.

yes i already though of that it might be repetitive, so there will be a big break between the wizards of at least 3-4 sessions, and probably a level up. when they kill enough of them and only a few remain there will be a twist (of which i have not yet planned) so that the remaining few are not just waiting to be killed. this will happen after 4-5 depending on how they do. but yeh, it will be implied that they should go after the diviner first as he is a weaker combat one but would be immeasurably powerful if not taken out due to the enemy being able to counter every move. im thinking they go after (as the weaker ones) divination, enchantment, illusion, and one or two of abjuration, transmutation (not weak but im not using cheese), necromancy or evocation. conjuration and two or 3 of the others will be kept for later. as soon as this point is hit, the ritual/incantation that they have been keeping will start to become unstable. if the party continue then it breaks, if they realise what they have done and want to stop it the can help to contain it. (i have a secret surprise for them that is incredibly evil :smallwink:)

[Nirhael]

Personally, I'd make the Diviner a traitor who's actually working with your lord and is feeding him intel while staying on the king's good side, he'd be well suited for that role thanks to his specialty. Considering his magical inclination, he's likely to have cast something along the lines of Detect Thoughts too close to your elder evil and had his mind broken down and got turned into a puppet working for the EE's release.

So you've got a triple-crosser Diviner who can stay relatively safe and on everyone's good side while they all do his dirty work. Not particularly original or anything but still an interesting type of character to work with and a good plot hook/source of.

[SoraWolf7]

Have you ever played Dragon Quest 8? Similar circumstances: eight specialists, descended from eight sages, maintain and protect mystic jewels that seal up an elder evil. An evil magician is brainwashed and goes around killing the guardians and the MC has to stop him.

Each of the guardians wasn't a wizard. One was a noble knight, one a wizard, another was a priest, another, a successful warrior who opened up a casino. Maybe you could make each of the targets a member of an adventuring party, covering all the aspects of DnD. Make one a rogue, one a wizard, one a ranger etc. Each target would have its own area or keep that the party would have to navigate to reach their goal.

I've played Dragon Quest 8 and this immediately came to mind when I saw the title of this thread. Considering everything, I'd make every "mage" in the party a high-level adventurer with a part in a collaborated Binding (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/binding--2528/)Spell using the Bound Sleep variation on the demon, with a healthy dose of Permanency on top. Then kill the body (which is still comatose and therefore able to be coup de grace'd and killed), and imprison the soul in using a Spell-Researched customized version of Soul Bind (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/soul-bind--2759/)that divides the demon's soul into 8 Black Onyx Gems whose total value equals the demon's HD. This renders the demon split up among the mages and allows you to not only create the killing condition that frees the demon's body, but also creates MacGuffins to find for the demon's soul.

If you're going to stick to 8 mages, I suggest doing a party that while all mages, it still seems like an adventuring party, like a Mage/Fighter, Mage/Rogue, Mage/Cleric, etc. Heck, if you go with the Binding Spell Route, your entire party just needs to be able to cast Suggestion, and that can be done with Bards, Clerics, Urban Druids, Wu Jen (who can also cast the Binding Spell), Spell Thieves, and Hexblades.

[Malroth]

wizard, wizard, wizard, wizard, wizard, wizard, wizard, and wizard is a perfectly fine adventuring party at all levels if a bit overpowered.

[tsroark]

If you're going to use a diviner what if the encounter is used as a possible turning point for the PCs? Maybe one or two other mages are dealt with so the diviner reaches out to the party to give them the whole picture. The party then decides to cross their original quest giver and re-establish the locks, or continue disrupting the mages. You can also throw in something like the fate system in Kingdoms of Amalur, and somehow the PCs have escaped destiny and the diviners readings.

[inertia709]

I think that the Necromancer should be one of the last ones that they fight. Why? Because Necromancers should be liches, and lichdom requires CL 11. Even though Necromancy is generally considered to be a "meh" school, if the Necromancer is high enough level (and hasn't banned Conjuration or Transmutation :smalltongue:) then his level and undead traits will matter more. One cool combo that's good but not overpowering for an undead caster is using the Lord of the Uttercold metamagic feat on big AoE blasting spells so that the lich can blast and heal itself and its undead minions at the same time.

[Hazrond]

I think that the Necromancer should be one of the last ones that they fight. Why? Because Necromancers should be liches, and lichdom requires CL 11. Even though Necromancy is generally considered to be a "meh" school, if the Necromancer is high enough level (and hasn't banned Conjuration or Transmutation :smalltongue:) then his level and undead traits will matter more. One cool combo that's good but not overpowering for an undead caster is using the Lord of the Uttercold metamagic feat on big AoE blasting spells so that the lich can blast and heal itself and its undead minions at the same time.

Unless im mistaken it wouldnt actually heal them naything, doesnt it only make the damage half-negative (im pretty sure it even called out saying that it essentially negates itself on undead targets)

[inertia709]

Unless im mistaken it wouldnt actually heal them naything, doesnt it only make the damage half-negative (im pretty sure it even called out saying that it essentially negates itself on undead targets)

Yes, but liches and most other undead are immune to cold, so they get healed by half of the spell damage. The feat description (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/lord-of-the-uttercold--1791/) is pretty explicit about its healing applications.

[sideswipe]

lots of great ideas. im going to tweak my adventure i think.

im going to have them (after the first adventure which fully gains the lords trust) told of the 8 mages. and the evils they deal to their surrounding villages (lies) and then give them the choice. i will make them choose who to go after first.

i will give them a choice of the illusionist, the enchanter or one of the others but not necromancer, diviner, or conjurer. (the diviner having been driven mad by contact through divinations with the horror over many years, and seeing what the king has to do to keep it imprisoned, now is unclear of what he wants or believes. and now helps everyone but no one. playing a big game of chess. hes not mad crazy, just unhinged).

if they choose to go after the diviner then they can learn of his position on the matter. have him as a possible ally later.