"Storm Wind" TOB

[Anlashok]

Player, for the purpose of making a certain theme fit, wants a lightning-instead-of-fire desert wind school. The school isn't great on its own and the theme still lines up, so I'm tempted to allow it, but as I'm not much of a swordsage player I figured I'd ask the forum if there was anything I'd need to worry about by allowing this.

[ngilop]

switching it to lightning is good

heck
I have 4 different version of desert wind in my game one fore each element

desert wind for fire
artic wind for cold
vitriolic wind for acid
and cackling wind for electricity

the only thing you are going to have to worry about is the fact that its a different damage type and now is not useless against 50+% of the creatures you encounter, which is a good thing like I said in my first line.

[Vhaidara]

I would personally go with Voltaic Wind.

Yeah, switching Desert Wind is easy, and good for the school

[Adverb]

This is just about how common fire resistance/immunity is. Electricity is better, and you're giving the player a boost by doing this, but DW is otherwise pretty weaksauce, so you'll be fine.

[Silva Stormrage]

Was I the only one expecting the storm wind fallacy and how it related to ToB? :smalltongue:

But ya I wouldn't worry that much about it. While it is a buff (Fire resistance is everywhere) fire vulnerability is also a lot more common that lightning vulnerability and it still isn't that strong of a school.

[HammeredWharf]

You're fine. Converting Desert Wind to sonic or force would be a major buff, but this isn't.

[Seppo87]

Not to mention, it's fluff-wise perfectly coherent. Desert wind emphatizes speed more than anything else.
It goes with lightning like cheese on maccheroni.

[INoKnowNames]

Was I the only one expecting the storm wind fallacy and how it related to ToB? :smalltongue:

Actually, that's -exactly- what I was thinking this was.:smallbiggrin:

I'm trying to imagine some of the new maneuver names and effects actually occurring, though. It's... actually pretty cool looking.

[PraxisVetli]

I have a player that we backported PoW's Solar Wind for, refluffed as Cold Damage. Obviously, that's less of a jump than Electric, but nonetheless.
We haven't noticed any major power difference.
Though I agree, Sonic, or especially Force, would be a jump significant enough to be hesitant about.

[Rijan_Sai]

This topic got me thinking (always a dangerous thing!)

Desert Wind is usually looked down on due to fire, fire, and MOAR FIRE!!! ...or something like that.

So I was thinking, what about allowing the SS to choose his energy when he declares the attack, and giving each energy type a "rider effect" of some sort.

I came up with this:


Fire - Ref save or catch on fire for 1 round/level (1d6 damage/round; full round action or submersion in water to extinguish)
Cold - +1 per die - Fort save or -2 Dex penalty for 1 round/level
Electricity - +2 save DC - Fort save or -2 Str penalty for 1 round/level
Sonic - -1 per die - Fort save or deafened for 1 round
Acid - +1 damage/round/level
Force - damage die reduced by 1 / "Inferno Blast" cannot be changed to force damage

Saves (and extra Acid damage) only apply on the first (successful) attack in a round; subsequent attacks do not apply rider effects.

Explanations/Reasonings:
1) Fire: Fire is the basic form of damage, and this gives is a little bit of "utlilty," without going to overboard. Still the most resisted/immunized type.
2) Cold: The +1 comes straight out of psionics...no real other reason. The Dex penalty seems like a nice little (de)buff, without wrecking the opponent. (Besides, if you want to target stats as a primary attack, go with Shadow Hand...)
3) Electricity: Same as Cold, the main effect comes from psionics. The Str penalty just sounded right...right?
4) Sonic: Can you guess where this comes from? This rider effect...???
5) Acid: Now, this one I had to make up. Could potentially add up to a lot of extra damage...eventually! :smallbiggrin:
6) Force: Added for completion...I realize that Force is a powerful energy, which is why the damage gets dropped. For Inferno Blast, I really could not find any "balanced" way of applying Force damage in a large AoE. Honestly, this whole energy could be removed if need be.

So, that's what I came up with. What do you think? To powerful? Needs more? Needs to be tweeked? P.E.A.C.H.

[Gemini476]

Just for reference, Rijan_Sai, here's what Psionics did for their multi-type powers.

Cold
A burst of this energy type deals +1 point of damage per die. The saving throw to reduce damage from a cold burst is a Fortitude save instead of a Reflex save.

Electricity
Manifesting a burst of this energy type provides a +2 bonus to the save DC and a +2 bonus on manifester level checks for the purpose of overcoming power resistance.

Fire
A burst of this energy type deals +1 point of damage per die.

Sonic
A burst of this energy type deals -1 point of damage per die and ignores an object’s hardness.

This power’s subtype is the same as the type of energy you manifest.

I'd also consider looting the [energy type] Orb spells for rider effects. In that case Fire dazes, Acid sickens, Cold blinds, Electricity entangles people wearing metal armor, and Sonic deafens. Restricting riders to specific maneuvers might be a good idea.

Another option, of course, is to look around for homebrew disciplines. There are some really cool ones floating around on GitP and other places, and I think I remember some electric one.

[Crake]

This topic got me thinking (always a dangerous thing!)

Desert Wind is usually looked down on due to fire, fire, and MOAR FIRE!!! ...or something like that.

So I was thinking, what about allowing the SS to choose his energy when he declares the attack, and giving each energy type a "rider effect" of some sort.

I came up with this:



Explanations/Reasonings:
1) Fire: Fire is the basic form of damage, and this gives is a little bit of "utlilty," without going to overboard. Still the most resisted/immunized type.
2) Cold: The +1 comes straight out of psionics...no real other reason. The Dex penalty seems like a nice little (de)buff, without wrecking the opponent. (Besides, if you want to target stats as a primary attack, go with Shadow Hand...)
3) Electricity: Same as Cold, the main effect comes from psionics. The Str penalty just sounded right...right?
4) Sonic: Can you guess where this comes from? This rider effect...???
5) Acid: Now, this one I had to make up. Could potentially add up to a lot of extra damage...eventually! :smallbiggrin:
6) Force: Added for completion...I realize that Force is a powerful energy, which is why the damage gets dropped. For Inferno Blast, I really could not find any "balanced" way of applying Force damage in a large AoE. Honestly, this whole energy could be removed if need be.

So, that's what I came up with. What do you think? To powerful? Needs more? Needs to be tweeked? P.E.A.C.H.

I would probably change them to just 1 round, instead of 1 round/level. They're maneuvers after all, 1 round/level is more of a spellcasting duration, but since maneuvers can be used typically round after round, it would be too easy to stack up a stupid amount of rider effects

[Rijan_Sai]

I would probably change them to just 1 round, instead of 1 round/level. They're maneuvers after all, 1 round/level is more of a spellcasting duration, but since maneuvers can be used typically round after round, it would be too easy to stack up a stupid amount of rider effects

That makes sense. I would probably either leave the acid damage alone and add a clause that it cannot be applied again while in effect, or up it to 1d6, and remove the "extinguish" part of the fire damage...that's actually the better idea, I think.

[Rijan_Sai]

Just for reference, Rijan_Sai, here's what Psionics did for their multi-type powers.


I'd also consider looting the [energy type] Orb spells for rider effects. In that case Fire dazes, Acid sickens, Cold blinds, Electricity entangles people wearing metal armor, and Sonic deafens. Restricting riders to specific maneuvers might be a good idea.

Another option, of course, is to look around for homebrew disciplines. There are some really cool ones floating around on GitP and other places, and I think I remember some electric one.

:smallconfused:Somehow, I did not see this post...
Anyway, thanks for the advice! Truth be told, I looked through both of those for inspiration...the riders on the Orb spells were just not quite what I was looking for...thanks though!

So, I've updated the list a little. Please let me know what you think!


Fire - Ref save or catch on fire for 1 round/maneuver level (1d6 damage/round; full round action or submersion in water to extinguish)
Cold - +1 damage per die; Fort save or -2 Dex penalty for 1 round
Lightning - +2 save DC; Fort save or -2 Str penalty for 1 round
Sonic - -1 damage per die; Fort save or deafened for 1 round
Acid - Ref save or take +1 damage/round/maneuver level
Force - damage die reduced by 1 / "Inferno Blast" cannot be changed to force damage

Saves only apply on the first (successful) attack in a round; subsequent attacks do not apply rider effects. Durations do not stack.
Most of it was left alone, (only reducing durations to 1 round).
The ones I should explain are:

Fire/acid: Reducing the duration to 1 round/maneuver level prevents (pretty much any, as far as I know) shenanigans with IL increases, and gives them a fixed duration. These two keep a duration, because one is fire, the other does 1 point of damage, and they are both HP damage... The added restriction that durations do not stack should help. Yes, it would be possible to use, say, Searing Blade (3 rounds) and two rounds later use Inferno Blade, that would be a total of 9 rounds extra "burn." At the cost of two maneuvers...and assuming two failed Ref saves.
These two energy types are also the ones that seem to traditionally have lingering damage.

Sonic: I chose to forgo the bit about ignoring hardness for objects because there are already maneuvers that do that. If breaking things is what you want, Mountain Hammer is just a maneuver/feat/item away!

Anyway, it seems balanced...(to me at least!) Not really trying to give a major increase in power to Desert Wind, just some options to make it a little more useful/versatile, while still keeping in line with the rest of the disciplines. Also, options...

[The-Mage-King]

I'd suggest looking at homebrew for something that might work a little better. Perhaps Raging Storm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?177063-3-5-Raging-Storm-a-lightning-elemental-discipline-LoB-ToB-Discipline)?