Eyes on the Horizon ((perception rules))

[Loki Eremes]

Hello there Playgrounders!

i have played D&D for almost a decade by now.... and never bother myself with this.
But today i simply clicked and wanted to know.

Perception Rules.

60ft (18m)....120ft (36m) of (insert type of vision here)
but this not clarifies a real range of vision a person has right? i mean...its to short for anyone with avarage eyes.

Does this mean there is something like a fog of war beyond those points??
If thats the case...Its difficult to say: when you apply the existence of it and when not?
in and out of battle? that would be a little unfair and sometimes silly, especially when your some ranged weapons exceed that gap.

The same applies to hearing.
which is the limit? there has to be a limit of some sort based on something.....


- Are there RULES for this questions of mine? i demand to know!

[Loki Eremes]

sooo......:smallfrown:

[Aegis013]

In the case of standard vision, there are penalties associated with distance, maximum encounter distance rules based on environment, and other rules. However, you really have to just use whatever you find to be common sense for the most part; a character not being able to see the sun or moon due to needing a spot check of several million is silly, for example.

As far as darkvision, and other forms of special vision, yes, the ability to see via that particular ability/style of sight simply cuts off at the specified range.

[Bacchanalian]

I'd imagine lighting should play a big role. Seeing 60 feet in a dark dungeon with only torchlight may even be a bit far, but seeing only 120 feet outdoors in daylight in a field is silly--I can easily see players on a golf course putting on the green 500 yards away from the tee box, or at least make out that there are moving things that appear to be humanoid in nature out that far.

[Loki Eremes]

Yeah, i know....its common sense most of the time....
but.... lets state an example

you are in a mountain.
about 1~2km down lies a town. You'll see very small houses and i doubt a normal person will see people from that far.

But...a lvl 20 Ranger is no normal being...



Thats why im asking if there are rules OR houserules for this predicament.
Something asociated by how far you could see or listen according to their respective skill maybe?
Im bringing this topic also, for making the rules with all of you if they dont exist....i think it would fill a hole thats normally avoided by DM as well as players.

[Loki Eremes]

ok...
i really dont get how people make threads on "how much damage a hulking hurler will do with a mountain" and everyone gets into it, throwing physics and math, killing catgirls in the process, and when talking about perception (something i judge important for the game and there are problems with it from time to time), i have only 2 answers.

so...if you dont find it somehow interesting, you simply dont help. Thats sad :smallfrown:

[PersonMan]

1 - 2 km is about 3 - 6 thousand feet. So 300 to 600 10 foot increments.

So, by the rules, said Ranger would need to make a DC 10 or 0 Spot check to see people. They'd have a Spot penalty between 300 and 600.

[ace rooster]

A spot check is only required to spot something that is hard to see, so the penalties do not apply when looking at the sun for example, or a character that is not hiding. Hiding generally requires concealment, which is not small thing. Spotting a hiding character at 300ft will obviously be massively hard, when you think that you have a 20% chance of missing it if you are standing right next to it, and staring right at it. Opposed spot checks are asked for to determine who notices who first in low visability distance encounters, and the penalties are not used for that.

The penalties in the PHB refer to opposed spots against hide checks, and reading lips. DMs are expected to Ad Hoc the difficulty of other spot checks (for example identifying a target at range). There are no set in stone rules.

[Loki Eremes]

1 - 2 km is about 3 - 6 thousand feet. So 300 to 600 10 foot increments.

So, by the rules, said Ranger would need to make a DC 10 or 0 Spot check to see people. They'd have a Spot penalty between 300 and 600.



A spot check is only required to spot something that is hard to see, so the penalties do not apply when looking at the sun for example, or a character that is not hiding. Hiding generally requires concealment, which is not small thing. Spotting a hiding character at 300ft will obviously be massively hard, when you think that you have a 20% chance of missing it if you are standing right next to it, and staring right at it. Opposed spot checks are asked for to determine who notices who first in low visability distance encounters, and the penalties are not used for that.

The penalties in the PHB refer to opposed spots against hide checks, and reading lips. DMs are expected to Ad Hoc the difficulty of other spot checks (for example identifying a target at range). There are no set in stone rules.

these are the type of answers i was hoping for :smallbiggrin:

So this is a no-zone for rules.....

PersonMan: those 10 foot increments for vision are described in the PHB somewhere? if so....could i ask you WHERE exactly?

[hamishspence]

PersonMan: those 10 foot increments for vision are described in the PHB somewhere? if so....could i ask you WHERE exactly?

In the Spot skill description, I would have thought.

In the SRD - it's in this little sidebar:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm

Also - the Stormwrack splatbook has some guidelines.

page 89
DC 20 spot check to spot an object at the base distance. Automatically spot target at half the base distance.

Range depends on your height, and the height of the target,

A flying spotter, can:

spot a person in the water at 1 mile (automatically spot at half this)
spot a small boat in the water at 12 miles (automatically spot at half this)
spot a ship in the water at 25 miles (automatically spot at half this)
spot a hilltop or peak at 100 miles (automatically spot at half this)