3.P Thrown Weapon Rogue

[AvatarVecna]

I've heard bad things about ranged sneak attacks in Pathfinder, and thrown weapons in general, but 3.5 had better options, which are now available. I'm trying to make a combat-worthy thrown weapons rogue, and I need help making sure I've got the rules straight in my head.

My current ideas are using the Aptitude weapon enchantment from ToB to count some light blades as both Light Maces (for using Lightning Mace) and boomerangs (for using Boomerang Daze). It also makes use of both Bloodstorm Blade and Master Thrower. I don't think the dazed condition gives me sneak attack though...any suggestions on how to get it more often? Pathfinder Sniper Goggles are available, so range isn't an issue, unless it's the weapon's max range.

Thanks!

[Feint's End]

See if you can play a psionic race and get Deadly Throw allowed as a feat (both PF). As long as you maintain psionic focus you can then add your dex instead of str to damage. Will be a good start with the amount of attacks you will likely have.

[AvatarVecna]

See if you can play a psionic race and get Deadly Throw allowed as a feat (both PF). As long as you maintain psionic focus you can then add your dex instead of str to damage. Will be a good start with the amount of attacks you will likely have.

I've got a couple other methods of adding Dex to damage that don't involve psionics (one involves a ToB feat that needs Shadow Hand maneuvers I already had; the other is just a 3.5 feat that gives it straight). As great as Dex to damage is, I'm unsure how multiple effects giving Dex to damage will be received by the DM, and the big issue is getting my sneak attack on full attacks at ranged.

[Socksy]

Wow I misinterpreted the thread title at a glance. I thought you were wanting advice with a Hulking Hurler or similar, who threw a rogue specialized in weapon use at an enemy! :P

Things like Fell Shot and that one feat letting you make a Spot check vs. AC to attack using a ranged touch attack might be good.

[StreamOfTheSky]

As long as you're using PF rules as the framework, you're going to have a tough time getting full attack ranged SA, other than the smokestick / Obscuring Mist + item (fog cutting lenses, and...some other goggles) or class feature (Water Sight, Waves mystery Oracle level 1 dip) to see through it combo.

Might be better to focus on other sources of damage like Deadly Aim and the multiple sources of Dex to damage and not bother with SA that much. Shame that Deadly Aim won't work with Master Thrower's Weak Spot. I guess Bloodstorm Blade (to treat it as a melee attack; you also want the lightning ricochet as well of course) and Power Attack would still work, though, just like in 3E.

PF is awful for throwers, but they do have feats in Ultimate Combat to throw without provoking (meh; thrown weapons double as melee weapons anyway) and to full attack 2H throw for MOAR damage (not helpful if doing dagger throwing). They might also have a feat to use Str for thrown attack rolls in UC, but 3E has it if not. There is also the Blinkback Belt in Ultimate Equipment to serve as 90% of the Lightning Ricochet ability, but it takes the same item slot as Str/Dex, so probably best to just do the 4 levels in BSB.
Try to get the DM to allow the 3E version of Far Shot. I have no idea why paizo nerfed a bad feat, but....they did.

In 3E, don't forget the uber cheap Gauntlets of Extended Range and Goggles of Foe-finding in MIC.

[Dragon-Rider]

Other than concealment, the only methods I know of to getting multiple Ranged Sneak attacks in a single round involve a lot of feats and/or depending on your allies. I got these methods from Rogue Eidolon's Guide to Rogues (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/rogue-eidolon-s-lab/rogue-eidolon-s-guide-to-rogues). They involve the Shatter Defenses (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#_shatter-defenses) and/or the Greater Feint (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#_greater-feint) feats. Rogue Eidolon lists the details for these strategies in the Feats section of his guide for what he/she calls the "Archery" style Rogue. Check it out, it's a pretty good read.

~Dragon-Rider

[NightbringerGGZ]

Are you absolutely married to the idea of playing a Rogue, or do you want a character who gets Sneak Attack damage with ranged weapons? If the later, I would suggest a Vivisectionist Alchemist build.

This build gives you full Sneak Attack progression as well as Infusions and Mutagens to provide buffs and boost your stats. The most important of these will be Blend (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blend) which gives you an ability which will function similarly to Hide in Plain Sight. At level 10 you can start picking up Greater Invisibility.

Alternatively, you can go with a Ninja that uses either Vanishing Trick or Smoke Bombs for the same effect.

[caimbuel]

I have yet to see anything in pathfinder that will compete with a bow. Sounds like your character will be interesting, the smoke of one verity or another is a decent way to SA but it may impact the other players in the game. Other then that you can try sniping.

Something that may work even better is the Psyblade with the thrown weapon archtype. Then you atleast are full BAB and get blade abilities to continue getting better.

The other thing I like better is a Vivisectionist, they get the SA but have extracts(spells) and mutagens to make this work a bit more.

[AvatarVecna]

Are you absolutely married to the idea of playing a Rogue, or do you want a character who gets Sneak Attack damage with ranged weapons? If the later, I would suggest a Vivisectionist Alchemist build.

This build gives you full Sneak Attack progression as well as Infusions and Mutagens to provide buffs and boost your stats. The most important of these will be Blend (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blend) which gives you an ability which will function similarly to Hide in Plain Sight. At level 10 you can start picking up Greater Invisibility.

Alternatively, you can go with a Ninja that uses either Vanishing Trick or Smoke Bombs for the same effect.

The character idea started as Rogue Paragon who specializes in thrown weapons. It slowly evolved into Batman. I'm gonna have a wizard cohort (flavored to be my Oracle and "utility belt"), so spell assistance should be easy to get. Yes, I'm married to Rogue.

[StreamOfTheSky]

One nice thing about Rogue is you can grab two bonus feats as talents -- Combat Trick and Ninja Trick (Combat Trick). Yes, the latter is rules-legal. You can also take Weapon Training talent for Weapon Focus (sucky feat, but Master Thrower requires it). That's your rogue 2/4/6 talents right there.

(I still think it's better to dip Swordsage for Weapon Focus [Shadow Hand, probably] around ECL 5 and then after entering Master Thrower go back for Swordsage 2nd level to pick up Assassin's Stance and a 3rd level maneuver and possibly the Wis to AC, picking up Shadow Blade somewhere along the way.)

[AvatarVecna]

One nice thing about Rogue is you can grab two bonus feats as talents -- Combat Trick and Ninja Trick (Combat Trick). Yes, the latter is rules-legal. You can also take Weapon Training talent for Weapon Focus (sucky feat, but Master Thrower requires it). That's your rogue 2/4/6 talents right there.

(I still think it's better to dip Swordsage for Weapon Focus [Shadow Hand, probably] around ECL 5 and then after entering Master Thrower go back for Swordsage 2nd level to pick up Assassin's Stance and a 3rd level maneuver and possibly the Wis to AC, picking up Shadow Blade somewhere along the way.)

All excellent ideas, thank you.