Divine Caster flavor question

[j_spencer93]

Ok we run a role play heavy campaign, and usually my players role play their characters exceptionally well. But one player loves to make divine people who seriously do not follow their gods at all, for example one worshipped Gruumsh but did not want to help orcs....actually he loved to kill orcs.
Would it be unreasonable to say if a divine caster did not follow their Patron Deities beliefs, and even seriously acted against them to keep them from casting spells, maybe even just level 4 and higher spells to represent the god taking the god not granting them the spells?

[torrasque666]

I...... yes! If you're playing a Cleric of Gruumsh and love to kill orcs, then I'd say that you'd fall. Hell, its even included in the class!

A cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by his god (generally by acting in ways opposed to the god's alignment or purposes)
emphasis mine

And Gruumsh, while he certainly isn't a protector of Orcs, certainly wants to see his savages succeed.

[Rebel7284]

for example one worshipped Gruumsh but did not want to help orcs....actually he loved to kill orcs.

While typically taking away power because the god said so is a **** move, when faced with such extreme case of working AGAINST the interest of the god, I think it would be perfectly justifiable to suddenly have certain spells or ALL spells not available until the character atones.

[j_spencer93]

I was just asking. I really hate to see these "holy" character who literally either seem atheist to me or directly oppose the gods they worship. So i needed a way to start punishing this horrible play style. Would never take them away to be a **** but in the orc case it really seems to fit. Only it really bad situations have i even considered this.

[Rebel7284]

If your player really enjoys taking power from the gods and then working against them, may I recommend Ur Priest. :D

[j_spencer93]

Play doesnt see himself as doing anything wrong. He thinks it is fine. Honestly he kinda a whine bag when anyone does anything he doesnt like or mentions his character is off track. A Ur-priest also has never been played as in my game.

[torrasque666]

Then this seems to be the perfect opportunity for him to do so. Lose his cleric casting to start learning how to just steal the spells from Guumsh instead.

[Rebel7284]

You may want to make sure the player is aware that Gruumsh is displeased BEFORE taking away the casting. Less chance of the player feeling blindsided and picked on. Would be less of an issue with a more mature person, but based on your description, it doesn't sound like maturity is a strong suit here. :)

And yes, tempting a fallen cleric with becoming an Ur-Priest can be a fun story arc. I would allow slowly retraining the cleric levels though, no one likes being stuck with dead levels.

[torrasque666]

And yes, tempting a fallen cleric with becoming an Ur-Priest can be a fun story arc. I would allow slowly retraining the cleric levels though, no one likes being stuck with dead levels.
If you allow this, remember to make sure that he doesn't take any other divine casting class. Forever spurned due to Ur-Priest.

[Sian]

reminds me of a quote i heard at some point, although i can neither remember who said it (seem to remember it being a local loudmouth in a national debate about school) or the exact wording but paraphrased:

"If there are no consequeces, there might as well be no rules"

[AMFV]

Ok we run a role play heavy campaign, and usually my players role play their characters exceptionally well. But one player loves to make divine people who seriously do not follow their gods at all, for example one worshipped Gruumsh but did not want to help orcs....actually he loved to kill orcs.
Would it be unreasonable to say if a divine caster did not follow their Patron Deities beliefs, and even seriously acted against them to keep them from casting spells, maybe even just level 4 and higher spells to represent the god taking the god not granting them the spells?

Well it's important to note that Gruumsh is not against killing Orcs, that culls the weak ones out. He's against working against Orckind.

[j_spencer93]

I understand Gruumsh well. And his character seem to just say they worship Gruumsh and then murder any orc he crossed. Really didnt seem a religious character at all. And survival or the strongest is nice, but his character ran away or begged when overpowered. Really...a crappy orc.

[AMFV]

I understand Gruumsh well. And his character seem to just say they worship Gruumsh and then murder any orc he crossed. Really didnt seem a religious character at all. And survival or the strongest is nice, but his character ran away or begged when overpowered. Really...a crappy orc.

Orcs are supposed to surrender or beg when overpowered. They're supposed to yield and follow the most powerful beings around. Murdering any orc you come across seems excessive, but was he working against the interests of Orckind. For example if I'm from the Genericaxename tribe and I'm in the land of the Othergenericaxename Tribe, then I could kill any Orc I come across and not fall afoul of Gruumsh.

[j_spencer93]

See that is the key. He doesnt follow who over powers him. He runs off the first moment he gets. I am fine with that as a character, just not thinking it is fine for someone devout to Gruumsh. If you were a blah blah of gruumsh wouldnt you want to prove you are the beast orc, maybe even get orcs to follow you. Not attack orc on site, if its dead be happy, if it survives first strike, throw a fit and beg for it not to kill you and run off the next round?

[AMFV]

See that is the key. He doesnt follow who over powers him. He runs off the first moment he gets. I am fine with that as a character, just not thinking it is fine for someone devout to Gruumsh. If you were a blah blah of gruumsh wouldnt you want to prove you are the beast orc, maybe even get orcs to follow you. Not attack orc on site, if its dead be happy, if it survives first strike, throw a fit and beg for it not to kill you and run off the next round?

It depends, Gruumsh doesn't care about individual Orcs. He cares about power and destruction. Secondly there's nothing wrong in his mind with running off, or betraying your responsibility (he's not Lawful, he's Chaotic). If I was an Antipaladin of Gruumsh, I would do whatever I thought was the strongest thing to do. If that meant killing orcs (trimming the fat off the race, I'd do that). Now retreating after an enemy survives a single is probably not in line with Gruumsh, there are other more cowardly Orcish deities.

[Urpriest]

You could just ask about motivations. Basically, every time the player does something that's inconsistent with his god (or personality in general) you ask why. Keep asking until the player gives you a plausible answer that's consistent with their backstory/motivation/religious beliefs, and don't let the game move on until they do.

Takes more time than falling, but conveys the wider point that there's no plausible reason for a player to not have some sort of motivation in mind for their characters, because come on, it's a roleplaying game.

[j_spencer93]

I love that idea btw, antipaladin of Gruumsh. if he was that i would not be irritated in the least by this. Maybe ill try to talk him into that. BTW idr class build exactly but he had some warcheif or something of gruumsh also. that added to why it irked me.