Racial Hit Dice, What do they do?

[Hazrond]

So time and time again i come to a cool looking race in one of the monster manuals that i want to try and then find that the have more than 1 hit die, meaning that if i play one i cant disregard the racial hit dice, i never could understand exactly what benefits a racial hit dice gave compared to a level?

[Cowardly Griffo]

They're generally not that good. They'll give you save bonuses, BAB and skills at each level, and you earn feats on every third HD like you do with class levels, but that's it.

As to what the specific BAB, Saves and Skills per level are, if they're not in the "X As Characters" section, you'll find them in their type entry (Outsider, Monstrous Humanoid, etc.) in the monster manual or SRD.

Ask your DM if you can use the retraining rules to turn them into class levels at some point, honestly. Class features are generally worth whatever stat tradeoff you'd be making.

[Hazrond]

They're generally not that good. They'll give you save bonuses, BAB and skills at each level, and you earn feats on every third HD like you do with class levels, but that's it.

As to what the specific BAB, Saves and Skills per level are, if they're not in the "X As Characters" section, you'll find them in their type entry (Outsider, Monstrous Humanoid, etc.) in the monster manual or SRD.

Ask your DM if you can use the retraining rules to turn them into class levels at some point, honestly. Class features are generally worth whatever stat tradeoff you'd be making.

Ok i have a question about what im reading, from what i can see the 3.0 version of this race had 4 racial hit die, but then the update replaced this with 4 LA, am i reading this wrong? :smallconfused:

Edit: im talkin about Myconids, the mushroom people actually look pretty cool :smallbiggrin:
Edit 2.0: or wait, am i reading this wrong? they have hit dice in the monster block but not in the area with the LA in the update, does that mean they do or dont have racial hit dice?

[Vhaidara]

Generally, 2 RHD = 1 LA. Since RHD do provide benefits (Skills, saves, feats, HP) while LA provides nothing at all, LA is significantly worse to have.

And then you get into LA buyoff, where LA becomes better than RHD as long as there are only 1 or 2 points of LA to work with.

[Hazrond]

Generally, 2 RHD = 1 LA. Since RHD do provide benefits (Skills, saves, feats, HP) while LA provides nothing at all, LA is significantly worse to have.

And then you get into LA buyoff, where LA becomes better than RHD as long as there are only 1 or 2 points of LA to work with.

So would you know how it works with the update then? in the update manual they dont have a list racial hit dice just an LA so does that mean that i would or wouldnt have the RHD?

[Vhaidara]

That means they added the LA (which wasn't really established in 3.0) and kept the RHD. It's why most monstrous campaigns are run in Gestalt: You put the monster on one side and a real class on the other.

[Hazrond]

That means they added the LA (which wasn't really established in 3.0) and kept the RHD. It's why most monstrous campaigns are run in Gestalt: You put the monster on one side and a real class on the other.

From what ive read the various RHD have different levels of suckiness to ok-ness, where would plant be on that scale? :smallconfused:

Edit: wow i just read the benefits from plant, they are actually kinda potent

[Sian]

it means that instead of LA- it have LA+4

[Vhaidara]

The benefits of the plant type are potent. You have those even without RHD. The plant RHD are pretty bad. It's cleric with no casting and bad Will save.

[Sian]

From what ive read the various RHD have different levels of suckiness to ok-ness, where would plant be on that scale? :smallconfused:

Towards the low end, although not the buttom ... its certainly one of the worse if you have many, but rather decent if low or none

HD: D6
BAB: 3/4
Skill Points 2+
Low-Light Vision
Immunity to Mind-Affecting, Poison, Sleep, Paralysis, Polymorph and Stunning
Immunity to Crits
No need for Sleep

[Hazrond]

Towards the low end, although not the buttom ... its certainly one of the worse if you have many, but rather decent if low or none

HD: D8
BAB: 3/4
Skill Points 2+
Low-Light Vision
Immunity to Mind-Affecting, Poison, Sleep, Paralysis, Polymorph and Stunning
Immunity to Crits
No need for Sleep

Fixed that for ya :smalltongue:

Edit: if i went with the race im looking at i would either have 3 RHD or 4 depending on whether i can stomach the extra RHD for a few extra racial abilities, though the 3 RHD one is much more appealing

[Vhaidara]

Towards the low end, although not the buttom ... its certainly one of the worse if you have many, but rather decent if low or none

HD: D8
BAB: 3/4
Skill Points 2+

Fixed that for you. The other benefits are from the plant type. You don't need any RHD to get them.

[Hazrond]

Fixed that for you. The other benefits are from the plant type. You don't need any RHD to get them.

Do you think dropping the RHD is worth it in exchange for small size? the reason i looked at the 3 RHD one is because it is the cheapest one that can talk, the small size mute one is only LA 2 and with only 1 RHD that would get replaced by class levels

Edit: actually i misread, its Tiny size

[Vhaidara]

I would probably just put the Elder Worker at 2 LA no RHD. It would be a solid 2 LA (+2 Str, Dex, Con, +4 Wis, Cha, with Plant immunities)

[Hazrond]

I would probably just put the Elder Worker at 2 LA no RHD. It would be a solid 2 LA (+2 Str, Dex, Con, +4 Wis, Cha, with Plant immunities)

if i play a myconid it would either be a Elder or a Junior, junior has interesting possiblities but at the same time suffers from the penalties of tiny size, could be interesting though...

Edit: there is the rather annoying lack of speech, though he could write stuff for the party to read, as well as the -2 to strength and int

[Bronk]

if i play a myconid it would either be a Elder or a Junior, junior has interesting possiblities but at the same time suffers from the penalties of tiny size, could be interesting though...

Well, depending on your campaign, you could eventually get older and grow into the average or elder worker form over time...

[Vhaidara]

Depending on your class, Tiny can be a massive advantage. In fact, I would put junior myconid at +2 LA as well. Tiny is a huge advantage for a lot of classes, and the stats (-2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, with plant immunities) are amazing for those classes. You're not building an ubercharger with them, but any divine caster or Cha based caster would love it. Walrocks would go absolutely nuts over them.

[Hazrond]

Well, depending on your campaign, you could eventually get older and grow into the average or elder worker form over time...

i just got the funny mental image of a myconid hitting its 8th birthday then suddenly growing 4 feet in height :smallbiggrin:

[Hazrond]

Depending on your class, Tiny can be a massive advantage. In fact, I would put junior myconid at +2 LA as well. Tiny is a huge advantage for a lot of classes, and the stats (-2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, with plant immunities) are amazing for those classes. You're not building an ubercharger with them, but any divine caster or Cha based caster would love it. Walrocks would go absolutely nuts over them.

Now imaging a 1 foot tall myconid eating a blueberry like a melon or something then suddenly firing a blast in someones face :smallbiggrin:

[Hazrond]

Depending on your class, Tiny can be a massive advantage. In fact, I would put junior myconid at +2 LA as well. Tiny is a huge advantage for a lot of classes, and the stats (-2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, with plant immunities) are amazing for those classes. You're not building an ubercharger with them, but any divine caster or Cha based caster would love it. Walrocks would go absolutely nuts over them.

is it good enough that casters would be willing to have LA for it? :smallamused:

Edit: i bet those nasty Walrocks would! :smalltongue:

[Vhaidara]

The standard is a sparrow Hengoyaki (spelling is probably wrong). You turn into a sparrow. Fly around, and then start firing death lazors.

[Hazrond]

The standard is a sparrow Hengoyaki (spelling is probably wrong). You turn into a sparrow. Fly around, and then start firing death lazors.

Not everybody allows such levels of cheese in their games, i have played with a few DMs who would say a flat no to a race that seems so widely regarded as being so good

[Vhaidara]

The thing is, they're not a strong race for anything but warlock. They get -2 Wisdom, +2 Dex, and a 20ft fly speed, at the cost of +1 LA. The only reason they're good for warlock is because warlock doesn't care about your stats.

[Hazrond]

The thing is, they're not a strong race for anything but warlock. They get -2 Wisdom, +2 Dex, and a 20ft fly speed, at the cost of +1 LA. The only reason they're good for warlock is because warlock doesn't care about your stats.

:smallyuk: i cant really stomach Wis penalties, i just feel like my will save is too important to lower

[Urpriest]

The thing is, they're not a strong race for anything but warlock. They get -2 Wisdom, +2 Dex, and a 20ft fly speed, at the cost of +1 LA. The only reason they're good for warlock is because warlock doesn't care about your stats.

They're not LA +1 anymore, as of 3.5.

That said, Warlocks can get a better flight speed, so they're not that great for them really. They're better for characters who get a lot of benefit out of being Diminuitive.

[atemu1234]

:smallyuk: i cant really stomach Wis penalties, i just feel like my will save is too important to lower

Reminds me of a time I had a high intelligence, low-wisdom rogue. He was considerably smarter than the rest of the group but was never focused enough to really use it. He basically had A ADHD, or as my group called it, "Ooh, Shiny! Disorder".