Witch Spells

[SirWolf312]

I'm working on a witch character and I don't see how many spells I'm supposed to know based on my level (6). Can anyone tell me how many spells a witch starts with and how many they learn when they level up?

[Yanisa]

Same as a Wizard, its hidden under the Familiar Part (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Witch-s-Familiar-Ex-), because (s)he functions as your spellbook.

A witch's familiar begins play storing all of the 0-level witch spells plus three 1st level spells of the witch's choice. The witch also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to her Intelligence modifier to store in her familiar. At each new witch level, she adds two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new witch level) to her familiar. A witch can also add additional spells to her familiar through a special ritual.

So a Level 6 witch has
All 0th level spells, 5+int first level spells, 4 second level spells and 4 third level spells (in all cases lower levels are also an option, but I always prefer to get spells of the highest level avaible) + whatever scrolls you want to spend starting wealth on.

[Dalebert]

It's much harder to learn spells than for a wizard, which is understandable since witches get other stuph and wizards are all about the spells. But knowing that, I would encourage you to invest fully in spellcraft and get a MW tool for +2. If you fail your spellcraft roll, the scroll is destroyed. You might even want to invest in a +5 spellcraft magic item (2500gp). I've managed without that so far. With a 23 effective INT at level 5, I now automatically succeed on learning lvl 1 spells and have a very low chance of failure on 2nd and 3rd.

Also learn Blood Transcription (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-transcription) because spellbooks are useless to you unless you maybe have a party member who can make scrolls of those spells for you. Also try to join or form a coven to share spells and also as a spell backup. If you share all your spells with every witch in your coven (and vice versa, of course) not only will you get more spells, but if you lose your familiar, the other witches in your coven will have a backup of everything. Then you can pick 2 new spells of each level with the new familiar.

[Psyren]

There's an easier way to back up your witch spells actually - Stone Familiar. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/stone-familiar) The main advantage here is that this can be used solo, i.e. without a coven.

If it does come down to it, you can get by with the 2 free spells/level + patron spells in a newly replaced familiar and do fine, if you choose carefully.

Finally, keep in mind that Blood Transcription is [evil.] Witches have no alignment restrictions but depending on who sees you do it you may have some awkward questions to answer.

[Dalebert]

There's an easier way to back up your witch spells actually - Stone Familiar. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/stone-familiar) The main advantage here is that this can be used solo, i.e. without a coven.

Yes, but it is fairly pricey and it's only a backup whereas a coven is a backup and a way to get more spells. Covens also just suit witches, flavor-wise. I feel like they should be encouraged. Also, a coven could split the cost of a stone familiar and it could be an extra backup for all of them, though I think that's getting fairly paranoid. Note that I'm not saying it isn't worth the price. I think it's valued about right. Just saying it's an opportunity cost analysis, i.e. you're giving up 6k of some other item(s) for a sense of security that may very well never come into play. It's worth noting that your fellow witches can only help you up to the levels they can cast themselves, so level disparities will limit this benefit someone.


Finally, keep in mind that Blood Transcription is [evil.] Witches have no alignment restrictions but depending on who sees you do it you may have some awkward questions to answer.

I'm glad I'm in an game without alignments. It bugs me when a spell is deemed to be evil. Evil should be about how you use it. If someone's already dead, draining and drinking their blood is just icky; not inherently evil. Now if you hunt someone down specifically for this purpose, that's pretty dern evil. I realize the implication is the spell is powered by infernal forces or something that makes it inherently evil regardless. *shrug* Psyren's right though. Most games still use alignments so you need to take it into consideration.

[grarrrg]

Yes, but it is fairly pricey and it's only a backup whereas a coven is a backup and a way to get more spells. Covens also just suit witches, flavor-wise. I feel like they should be encouraged. Also, a coven could split the cost of a stone familiar and it could be an extra backup for all of them

If a new member joins the group it would be handy to just have them sit with the Stone Familiar to 'get up to speed' than to have to have another Witch with them the whole time.


Just saying it's an opportunity cost analysis, i.e. you're giving up 6k of some other item(s) for a sense of security that may very well never come into play.

Likely only 3k.
In any reasonably sized Coven it should be likely that at least one of the other Witches can craft things.

[Psyren]

Yes, but it is fairly pricey and it's only a backup whereas a coven is a backup and a way to get more spells. Covens also just suit witches, flavor-wise.

Flavor or not, getting into one is still entirely dependent on the DM's good graces. A Stone Familiar can at least be bought or crafted.

[Dalebert]

Likely only 3k.
In any reasonably sized Coven it should be likely that at least one of the other Witches can craft things.

Yes, in most reasonable games when the DM hasn't banned most crafting. *grumble*


I think it's valued about right. Just saying it's an opportunity cost analysis, i.e. you're giving up 6k of some other item(s) for a sense of security that may very well never come into play.

True story: The other night our party was rather unexpectedly given the opportunity to pick 10k worth of magic items to assist with a long-term mission. A stone familiar is on my wish list and I contemplated it briefly, but at level five, the security of having 6k worth of things that actually help me survive outweighed the security of having a backup for my spells. I expect it to make economic sense at some level when I have more money and more spells of higher level. Regardless, the coven make sense if you can pull it off.

[Psyren]

It's simple really - keep your familiar out of combat and you shouldn't need a backup at all. If your DM is the type who will target a familiar anyway, or destroy a spellbook, then it probably won't matter what precautions you take.