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View Full Version : Sorcerer improvements (Is this ok continued) [fix]



Marcotic
2007-03-02, 07:48 PM
This is my attempt to make taking 20 levels of sorceror a good decision, but im worried that this will mean no wizards. I think the main breaking point may be the Inspired Spell, but checking things through, the ability is only usable once or twice a day at the highest level, so maybe not. Inspired spell is designed to make a sorceror capable of fufilling the magic tool boxness of the wizard.


Sorcerer Every thing is the same except where noted.

Arcane Inspiration Pool

This is a pool that a sorcerer draws his special abilities from. He gains this pool at 1rst level, and it is composed of 4 points. For each level of sorcerer he takes he gains an additional 1 point. Points are recharged whenever his spells are recharged



Inspired Metamagic

At 1rst level the sorcerer can attempt to use a metamagic feat that he doesn't quite know. He can choose 2 metamagic feats at 1rst level and gains an additional one at 5th 10th 15th and 20th level. He must qualify for any Inspired Metamagic feat. If he later gains one of his Inspired Metamagic as a regular metamagic feat, then he may substitute one of his Inspired Metamagic feats for another. Inspired metamagic feats only count as a prerequisit for other feats.

As a full round action he can put any of these Metamagic feats on a spell, as though he knew it fully. He must succeed a sorcerer level check dc= 10 plus spell level + level increase, or the spell fizzles, using up one spell slot as though it they were lost due to failed concentration. This ability costs him 1 point per spell level increase, and there must be at least spells of the appropriate level available for consumption.

For example, if his silencing a fireball a 3rd level spell with a level increaser of +1, the dc would be 19, further it would cost him 1 point of AI because Silent spell increases the level by. If this spell fails, either through a bad inspired metamagic check or a failed concentration check, he loses two spell slots of 4th level for that day.

Practiced Metamagic

At 5th level the sorcerer gains the ability to cast metamagic spells without increasing their casting time. Using this ability uses 1 from the AI pool. If used with inspired metamagic, the cost of AI points are added together.

Inspired Spell

At 4th level, a sorcerer can cast a spell that isn't on his list of spells known, (it must still be in the sorcerer/wizard spell list) the spell must be of 2 levels lower then his highest level spell. Further the spell have a casting time no greater then one full round action. The casting time automatically changes to 10 minutes.
You must make a sorcerer level check = to 15 plus spell level, or the casting fails, using 1 spell of that level.
Said spell would take up 1 spell per day of that level. (So a sorcerer casting fireball with this method would lose a spell 3rd level slot) Using ability depletes his AI pool by 2 per spell level (0 level spells use 1 point). This ability cannot be combined with the Inspired Metamagic, or any type of metamagic. This ability cannot be used in item creation. This ability uses 2 AI points per spell level


Notes, You may never take 10 or 20 on any of these checks, though a natural one is not an automatic failure.

Marcotic
2007-03-02, 07:59 PM
Thanks to Khantalas I know what peach is! so I am adding a PEACH to the title

Krellen
2007-03-02, 08:12 PM
You've got conflicting AI costs for Inspired Spell; is it two per spell level, or three?

Jack_Simth
2007-03-02, 09:12 PM
Let's see if I have this right...

At 1st, the Sorcerer can attempt to Silence a Detect Magic at a DC of 16 with a modifier of 1; 15 or higher does the job, 30% chance of success.

At 5th, the Sorcerer can attempt to Silence a Detect Magic at a DC of 16 with a modifier of 5; an 11 or higher does the job, 50% chance of success, or the Sorcerer can attempt to silence a Magic Missile at a DC of 17 with a modifier of 5; a 12 or higher does the job, 45% chance of success, or the Sorcerer can also attempt to try Prestidigitation, DC 15, with a 55% chance of success.

At 10th, the Sorcerer can attempt to Silence a Detect Magic at DC 16 with a modifier of 10; a 6 or better does the job, 75% chance of success, or the Sorcerer can attempt to Empower a Fireball at DC 20 with a modifier of 10; a 10 or better does the job with a 55% chance of success. The Sorcerer can also attempt to try Prestidigitation, Dc 15, with a 60% chance of success, or the Sorcerer can attempt a Lightning Bolt, DC 18, with a 65% chance of success.

At 15th, the Sorcerer can attempt to Silence detect magic with no problem (100% chance), Empower a Prying Eyes for DC 22 (70% chance), attempt to try Shield with no chance of failure (DC 16, roll of 1), or attempt to Fabricate something with an 80% chance (DC 20, roll of 5).

At 20th, the Sorcerer can Empower an Enervation with no chance of failure (roll of 1 makes the DC 21 exactly), Empower a Spell Turning with an 85% chance (roll of 4 makes DC 24) or improvise a Sequester with a 95% chance of success (roll of 2 makes DC 22).

As a Sorcerer level check, it gives a lot of incentive to stay a Sorcerer.

Hmm... a Sorcerer-20 can cast an Inspired Simulacrum faster than a Wiz-20, the way you've worded it. I might suggest making it add 10 minutes to the casting time. Actually, I might suggest making it add 15 minutes to the casting time - the same amount of time the Wizard would need to prepare a spell he didn't think he'd need in a blank slot.

Marcotic
2007-03-02, 10:04 PM
I feel like such a noob, what is Simulacrum and what book is it in? but yes and thank you for your imput. thats pretty much how I imagined it all working (though i didn't math it out). Is it too much? does it mean no reason to take wizard? if I get rid of the whole make up a spell thing does it still pan out? what about automatic failure on a natural 1? I appreciate the analysis please keep em' coming!!! (and the answer is 2 not 3 thank you for pointing that out)

Jack_Simth
2007-03-02, 10:13 PM
Sorry, Inspired Spell (Simulacrum). Simulacrum is in the PHB, has a casting time of 12 hours.

Marcotic
2007-03-02, 10:17 PM
good, a sorceror can't use it with Inspired Spell (yes yes I am a noob) the target spell can't have a casting lenth of over 1-full round

Jack_Simth
2007-03-02, 10:27 PM
Ah, missed that detail. Nifty.

Krellen
2007-03-02, 11:59 PM
I'd say, considering the risk involved in failing an Arcane Inspiration, the DCs are a tad high. It really doesn't start to become worth it until 10th level or so, when the sorcerer's chance of success is better than 75% - after all, if he fails, he loses two spell slots and an action, because he has failed to cast a spell. Since it's just a level check, DC 10+ may be more appropriate.

Marcotic
2007-03-03, 03:33 AM
actually this too works out better then I thought, because the incentive is to keep being a sorcerer, past level 10, but how about a DC of 10 plus spell level and a half? SO a 3rd level would be a DC of 14 and a 7th level would be 20? I think I'll leave it as is (exept for the Inspired metamagic, that certainly needs changing) thanks for the math!

Marcotic
2007-03-03, 03:42 AM
ok edited class, take a look!

Jack_Simth
2007-03-03, 11:59 AM
Hmm...

Drat.

Mage of the Arcane Order is mostly better, except for familiar advancement. These changes make it really easy for the Sorcerer to qualify, too (as Inspired Metamagic qualifies for pre-requisites) - takes it down to a single non-class based feat (Arcane Preparation) and two class-based selections (Cooperative Metamagic as an Inspired Metamagic choice, one other Inspired Metamagic choice of any metamagic feat).

At 1st level, a Mage of the Arcane Order gets spellpool I - which gives the Sorcerer access to any PHB Sor/Wiz spell on one round's notice. Which is better: The ability to Call any PHB Sor/Wiz spell on one rounds notice, casting normally with no rolls involved (with an effecient build (ignoring things like Kobolds with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage), up to the highest level spell you can cast, with the exception of character level 8) and pay it back later, or the ability to craft any Sor/Wiz spell with a casting time under a full-round action that's at least two levels below the highest level spell you can cast? With the Calling limit being 1/2 your caster level in spell levels (and as it's caster level, other PrC's stack, and anything that boosts your caster level - such as an Orange Prism Ioun stone or the Archmage Spell Power ability - stack) vs. a pool of points that amounts to your Sorcerer level +3, and faking spells at a cost of 2 points per spell level (so essentially 1/2 Sorcerer level +1.5 spell levels per day, if you don't do anything else with them).

Mage of the Arcane order grants two bonus metamagic feats (2nd and 9th, I believe) which cover the two Inspired Metamagic Feats lost (and no rolls needed for them) by taking all ten levels of Mage of the Arcane Order. It also grants bonus languages, extra spells in your spellbook (whether or not you can prepare them is a COMPLETELY different question, but you get them), Speak Language and Knoweledge(All) as class skills (at the cost of bluff, and some cash every now and again, and giving the DM ready-made plot hooks).

If I were going for the best Sorcerer build I could, I'd still take Mage of the Arcane Order with this variant (and Archmage, later). There would be some drawbacks, though.... definately makes a Sor-20 a reasonable choice.

Marcotic
2007-03-03, 04:23 PM
Thanks for the 411, I'll change it so that the inspired meta magic only counts for other feats, not PrC's, thanks dude. wow, I didn't even think that that class would work for sorcerers, but the wording leaves a pretty loose interprutation.
"It requires an open unused spell slot." Would that mean a sorcerer decides not to prep a spell in that level or what? Badly worded.

Marcotic
2007-03-03, 04:32 PM
Ok, I edited it

Jack_Simth
2007-03-03, 06:51 PM
Thanks for the 411, I'll change it so that the inspired meta magic only counts for other feats, not PrC's, thanks dude. wow, I didn't even think that that class would work for sorcerers, but the wording leaves a pretty loose interprutation.
"It requires an open unused spell slot." Would that mean a sorcerer decides not to prep a spell in that level or what? Badly worded.
It requires an extra feat for the Sorcerer (Arcane Preparation) in comparison to the Wizard, but yes, it works for Sorcerers. It works very, very, well for Sorcerers. I'm fairly sure it belongs in the top ten of best PrC's for a primary spellcasting Sorcerer (primarily because it gets around the limited spell list to a goodly extent).

Marcotic
2007-03-03, 10:41 PM
Damn smokey! thats awesome (dm takes out nerf hammer)

Marcotic
2007-03-04, 11:11 PM
Nothing else? Must be perfect!