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View Full Version : Tome of Battle -> 4e Core?



brian c
2007-03-02, 10:40 PM
So, Ive never felt quite right about Tome of Battle. The maneuvers and stances are really cool, but the whole "martial adept" classes seem like an awkward addition to the core rules. If someone is a "martial adept", that means that they're a good fighter right? So why should those be classes on their own, don't we already have classes who are supposed to be good fighters, like monk, barbarian, ranger, and of course fighter? The whole maneuver system was obviously created after the 3e core had been written, so they're just tacked on to everything else. I really hope that in 4th edition (which I'm aware isn't necessarily imminent, probably at least another 4-5 yrs?) all this martial styles stuff can be incorporated into the core melee classes. Actually, I think I'd like to homebrew that for a campaign (but if I do I'll post it over in homebrew). What does anyone think? I think adding martial styles to the core melee classes could help balance them against casters at higher levels.

Clementx
2007-03-02, 10:58 PM
They put in a supplement to see how it works out. If ToB sells great and everyone loves it (within a 98% snuggle interval), it will probably have an effect on 4th. You wouldn't want to reinvent combat for your new edition, and have the entire concept suck, would you?

cupkeyk
2007-03-02, 11:50 PM
I can't see why the Swordsage can't have his maneuvers and his current class features as well as the saves and class features of a monk. Ditto for Paladin/Crusader, Warblade/Fighter, Swordsage/Barb, Swordsage/Ranger Swordsage/Barb or whatever permutations they can have... like permanently making gestalts the full BAB classes. They will still not be broken but will be competitive to casters.

Of course this makes DnD inhospitable to people with no micromanagement skills.

Khantalas
2007-03-03, 05:37 AM
...don't we already have classes who are supposed to be good fighters, like [...] of course fighter?

I wanna laugh, but my throat hurts oh so much.

Supposed, yes. In actuality, not really.

Matthew
2007-03-03, 07:56 AM
They put in a supplement to see how it works out. If ToB sells great and everyone loves it (within a 98% snuggle interval), it will probably have an effect on 4th. You wouldn't want to reinvent combat for your new edition, and have the entire concept suck, would you?

If the changes they incorporated from the 2.x Player's Option: Combat and Tactics into 3.x are anything to go by (and they are, as 3.x combat uses a *lot* of material from that supplement), it won't matter if Tome of Battle sold bad or well or was hated. They will just go ahead and incorporate it as they feel is best (and probably with regard to how well it worked in their own groups).

Personally, I don't really want to see Tome of Battle incorporated into 4.x, but that's mainly because I am stuck in my ways. We'll just have to wait and see what happens to D&D in a fourth edition (if War Hammer is anythhing to go by, it'll be almost exactly the same, but with more emphasis, and photographs of, models).

Gorbash
2007-03-03, 08:46 AM
Yeah, but Chaos Tzeentch still needs some nerfing. Steam Tank too. :P

skyclad
2007-03-03, 09:14 AM
Yeah, but Chaos Tzeentch still needs some nerfing. Steam Tank too. :P

What about Dark elfs, did they buff those yet?

Sulecrist
2007-03-03, 10:16 AM
Dark Elves are fine. And they buffed them in mid-3rd.

High Elves need a lot.

And I for one would love to see ToB in 4ed.

brian c
2007-03-03, 12:03 PM
I wanna laugh, but my throat hurts oh so much.

Supposed, yes. In actuality, not really.

Well, that's what I'm saying, the fighter should be the most melee oriented class, so they should have access to this stuff

Thomas
2007-03-03, 12:04 PM
So, uh, they should just call the Warblade the Fighter? See, that'd sort of be the point of including ToB stuff in the next edition's core (assuming the next edition is anything like the 3rd).

Yuki Akuma
2007-03-03, 12:40 PM
Well, that's what I'm saying, the fighter should be the most melee oriented class, so they should have access to this stuff

They do. Martial Study and Martial Stance are fighter bonus feats.

Aximili
2007-03-03, 02:53 PM
They do. Martial Study and Martial Stance are fighter bonus feats.
They should have reasonable access...]
(yet again, they should have a lot of stuff... as should the rangers, and the paladins, and the barbarians, and the monks... but I better not diverge from the subject)