Punk!

[Shadow of the Sun]

We have a metal thread, so I thought we could do with a punk thread. Seeing as I haven't seen one in my 3 months here I thought that I could make one instead of looking for one that may not exist to necro.

Anyone else here like punk? I am a big fan of both punk and metal, and happily enough there is a massive punk scene in my hometown. Possibly the coolest band in Toowoomba these days is Jack Flash, an Irish folk/punk band in the same vein as Flogging Molly. The sound is rather different with somewhat less focus on the folk aspect, but it is still there and it rocks. You can find their stuff here (http://www.myspace.com/jackflashband) at their myspace. Have a listen, they are going to be big. The stuff on their MySpace has some swearing, but it is incredibly good for a band that has been together for 4 months maximum.

[Raistlin1040]

Yeah I'm a fan of Punk/Alternative, Nu Metal, and all kinds of rock. Green Day, Three Day's Grace, and the RHCP come to mind.

[Shadow of the Sun]

*smites with incredible vigor* Goddamn I hate Nu Metal. And Green Day. But carry on if you can after that smite. I will stick with my doom metal, my black metal, my death metal, my post metal, my power metal, my sludge metal, my folk/punk and my punk. Essentially if it isn't alternative metal or nu metal I will listen to it.

[Lucky]

Yeah I'm a fan of Punk/Alternative, Nu Metal, and all kinds of rock. Green Day, Three Day's Grace, and the RHCP come to mind.
Except none of those bands you listed are punk. Green Day was, but not anymore.

I love punk, and recently I really got into the Celtic Punk scene when I saw the Dropkick Murphys in concert as they toured with Bad Religion. They left a big impression on me and I went out and got a bunch of their CDs, and became addicted pretty quickly.

EDIT: Hey, those guys are pretty good, didn't like the first song I heard, but "Fight" has caught my interest.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Have a listen to the Jack Flash stuff on their MySpace then, it is really good. I heart them, and I know the violin player.

Take Notice is the best song they have on there. The first song is really just a song about how good they are, but it is still good.

[Lucky]

Beat you to it.

[Raistlin1040]

I prefer Green Day's old stuff to their new stuff acually. The new stuff isn't bad, it's just not as good. And the RHCP have done so many different kinds of songs (Rap, Rock, Pop, Dance, ect.) I'm sure they did a punk album or at least a punk song.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Doesn't stop Nu Metal sucking, though.

[FdL]

Buzzcocks.

[storybookknight]

I've been enjoying the celtic punk as well - but there's some other good stuff I would recommend. The Clash is great "classic" punk, 1970's british stuff at the advent of the punk movement.

I also heartily recommend Gogol Bordello, which is... Gypsy Punk. Throw in some accordion, violin, occasionally some harmonica, and loads of creative lyrics.

If you like Metal, check out In Extremo. They're a german band that uses medieval instrumentation in addition to the usual stuff. Very original, very musical.

[Nightmarenny]

Except none of those bands you listed are punk. Green Day was, but not anymore.

I love punk, and recently I really got into the Celtic Punk scene when I saw the Dropkick Murphys in concert as they toured with Bad Religion. They left a big impression on me and I went out and got a bunch of their CDs, and became addicted pretty quickly.

EDIT: Hey, those guys are pretty good, didn't like the first song I heard, but "Fight" has caught my interest.
Oh God. Ok heres the thing. NO.

Punk is a vague station that alot of people try to claim is very specific. Green Day is Punk(not all their stuff as they change rabidly cd to cd) however they are not "strait Punk" that is rare. Hell most of the bands listed here arn't. There are several style of music that though they have a slight diffrence from Punk(slight enough that no one can get them right, in fact I garentee some one disagree's with whats emo) are still in the over arching Punk deffinition.

Classic Punk-The first bands and those that stick close to the fomula, three chord tricks and power chord were/are the rule, distortion with less variation in that fomula, The Ramones, and The Clash are good examples.

Grunge-Punk and Metal mixed, Nirvana

Pop-Punk- more popular version of punk, more melodic then standard Punk Bad Religion, Fall Out Boy, most Green Day(from the difference in this list you can see how badly defined these things are.

Emo-Hard Core Punk

Scremo-Lots of Screaming Emo

All of those are "punk" like alternate Rock, Classic Rock and Glam Rock are all the same genre "rock" please don't splite hairs there is already to much.

Edit-Wheooooo Flogging Molly

[Amotis]

Punk ain't music, it's a lifestyle.

That being said, I usually don't like most punk. I also usually don't like most hardcore.

I love Black Flag. Give some love for my California hommies. My favorite eras involve Chavo and Dukowski.

[Nightmarenny]

Punk ain't music, it's a lifestyle.

That being said, I usually don't like most punk. I also usually don't like most hardcore.

I love Black Flag. Give some love for my California hommies. My favorite eras involve Chavo and Dukowski.
Punk isn't music, Punk Rock is. No ones seems willing to call it that anymore though.

[Amotis]

There's punk folk and 2 tone and stuff too. Not all rock as you were still missing a lot of the subgenres of punk.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Yeah, I am using punk as in the music sense- all non pop-punk variations welcome. I keeeeeeeel your pop-punk.

[Cobra_Ikari]

*slaps*...what about ska, hmm?

[Amotis]

That's what I mean. It's not all rock and he missed quite a few.

That being said, I hate third wave ska. With a passion. Just rubs me the wrong way.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I like third wave ska. Streetlight Manifesto and BOTAR are my upstroke gods.

[Amotis]

Bleh. When I'm in a ska mood I likes my The Beats and The Specials. It has a more political "this music is actually fighting for something" feel to it then third wave ska.

[Shadow of the Sun]

There are a few political BOTAR songs. Streetlight's stuff is all over the place in the meaning of the songs though.

[Amotis]

Political as in actively trying to change the bad stuff that was happening then. It's why 2 tone is named what it is. (2 tone, 2 tones of skin color, etc). The Special's multiracial-ness was and still is an awesome statement.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I have a really cool anti-racist song here on my computer. It is from a straight punk band. The vocalist is awesome, I goddamn love our local bands.

It is here (http://www.myspace.com/blamesam). The song is There goes the Neighborhood, a song that discriminates racists. Three out of Three is a punk love song...I think.

[Nightmarenny]

There's punk folk and 2 tone and stuff too. Not all rock as you were still missing a lot of the subgenres of punk.
Yeah, I quickly reliesed that I had taken on a task that I really didn't have the knowledge to complete as I have no exposure to some of them.

Ska- The only Ska bands I know are "Less Than Jake", "Catch 22", and "Reel big Fish" all of whom I like.

[Jorkens]

The only recent ska band I've really been into is the Drug Squad, who are more country / prog ska than skacore. First and second wave are absolute gold, though - I tend to view people who don't like Toots and the Maytals or Prince Buster or the Specials as intrinsically suspect until proven otherwise.

What about post punk, then? Any Fall fans out there? PiL? Gang of Four?

[Silkenfist]

*shrugs* I'm not into punk anymore, but you can still get me with some of the Folk Punk bands like Flogging Molly, Dropkick Murphys or The Pogues.

Anything else...uhm, no. Just not my style.

[ray53208]

okay, kids, when are you gonna learn? punk is dead.

its dead and corporations have skinned it, tanned it, and wear it in the hopes that youll buy something thats ever so "punk" with your paper route and allowance money. there is no new punk. its over. done with. gone.

sold out, co-opted, and drained of all vital essence punk is dead.

this caustic little french kiss has been brought to you by the wretch who loved punk too much.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Heh. Nope. Punk lives. My city has a massive punk scene, music made by people who continue with the punk ethic, producing and selling it themselves or banding together in a record label called Punk Plight Records. No matter how much you burn there is always some of the original left. Punk is not dead. It is dormant, weak, sick of the mutilation it has suffered, but it lives.

[ray53208]

i dont think so my man. i was there that day in the woods when punk was told to close its eyes and think about bunnies as gary sinese pulled the trigger. it was beautiful, man. you shouldve been there.

[SDF]

Punk dead? Ha, come to Boise where close to half of our shows are punk shows. I don't tend to listen to it recreationaly, but I love to go to punk shows. The are FUN.

And please no genre whining, I hate it so.

[Amotis]

Joining the "my local scene has thousand of punks bands consisting of the good, bad, and the horrible" bandwagon. Punk is far from dead.

As for post punk, I tend to like the stuff before and after, the ones that influenced it (Dub, AV punk) and the stuff that came after (Liars, etc).

[Chunklets]

Classic Punk-The first bands and those that stick close to the fomula, three chord tricks and power chord were/are the rule, distortion with less variation in that fomula, The Ramones, and The Clash are good examples.

Grunge-Punk and Metal mixed, Nirvana

Pop-Punk- more popular version of punk, more melodic then standard Punk Bad Religion, Fall Out Boy, most Green Day(from the difference in this list you can see how badly defined these things are.

Emo-Hard Core Punk

Scremo-Lots of Screaming Emo

Ah, the eternal debate over what is and is not punk. :smallsmile: I'd add "Oi" to your list - basic three-chord punk, often with chantable choruses.

And no, punk is not dead, although it does smell that way sometimes. It's kind of funny that punk has been around for 30 years, give or take, and people have been proclaiming its death for about 29 of those years. The genre does seem to have a certain survivability.

[ray53208]

kids, i know you want to be a part of something, but its over. its time to send that wedding dress to goodwill, miss havisham.

[Nightmarenny]

kids, i know you want to be a part of something, but its over. its time to send that wedding dress to goodwill, miss havisham.
No its not. Your just not a part of it. Punk is about the people, traditionaly young people, if you were around for the first wave then your concidered to old by alot of the Punk community. Its become something different but its rediculus to claim its dead, thats like claiming democracy, Communism, or individualism were dead at anypoint in time. They(and Punk) are ways of thinking that will never die.

Punk lives; if your not appart of it anymore, well too bad for you, huh?

[Amotis]

Perhaps because our modern punk don't have an overproduced Phil Specter sound, don't belong to the National Rifle Association, and aren't lifelong Republicans.


Dang. We must really suck then.

[ray53208]

nope. dead. as a doornail.

[Nightmarenny]

nope. dead. as a doornail.
Um no, thats not how you argue. Everyone but you has pointed out a thriving punk scene in our cities. We have offered some sort of proof. You don't get to stick your thumbs in your ears and yell ''Its not true, Its not true"

Give some proof man. Give an arguement.

[Catch]

nope. dead. as a doornail.

Go back under your bridge, troll.

I understand the sentiment, though. The cry of "punk is dead" has been flying around for years, and you won't be the last to say it. I'll agree that punk has been diluted by exposure to the mainstream and the pop infusion that tends to be considered as the new punk.

But while Green Day is assembling political commentary out of Lego and Fall Out Boy is pumping out their poppy emo rock through a firehose, there are plenty of bands who still have the ideal at heart. Sure, there's plenty of trend-hopping scenesters that have seeped into the shows, but it's the artists that make the music, not the fans.

I'll be seeing Anti-Flag at the Metro here in Chicago in two weeks and I know for a fact that there will be plenty of suburbanite scenesters there. (Would be going to see the Lawrence Arms, but it's a 21+ show. Blech.) Do I care? Not much. Hell, when I see the Nekromatix next month, there'll be plenty of people there who don't get it. I don't get all flustered and I don't denounce 'em all because I understand that music is subjective, and interpretations vary. Some people don't get it.

I don't call myself a punk or a rudie or a psychobilly because that's not my lifestyle and I don't subscribe to one scene exclusively. I'm far more politically active (now that I can vote) and I'm far more idealistic than any of the studded-belted, hair-in-the-face concert-hoppers, but I don't mind that they're there. Sure, the scene ain't what it used to be.

But is punk still alive and thrashing? Hell f*cking yes.

[Samiam303]

nope. dead. as a doornail.
I just got back from a Flogging Molly concert. That show sold out of tickets a good MONTH in advance. I can barely speak I'm so hoarse. You, sir, are flat wrong.

And I'll say it again: This is where punk rock is.
BTMI! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb_the_Music_Industry%21)

[Shadow of the Sun]

Punk ain't dead, I went to a massive punk/metal concert yesterday with tons of local punk bands. Ray, you may preach that punk is dead and you are entitled to that opinion, I am likewise entitled to the opinion that you are man who is emo about the fact he has been left out of the loop and insists on that loop being dead to ease his pain.

Ain't freedom of beliefs a wonderful thing?

[Tor the Fallen]

The Misfits.
Get loaded, go to parties, hijack the sound system, get more loaded and sing along.

The Distillers. Brody's voice is amazing. She reminds me of Chrissie Hinds of The Pretenders.

And no one's mentioned the Offspring? Many those guys were great. Smash was such an overwhelmingly good album.

[ray53208]

oh contraire mon shadow. indeed not emo, i celibrate what punk was and seek not to cheapen it. people keep throwing names of bands at me like babies onto the sacrificial pyre. sure, they want to be punk, they try to be punk, but that ship is gone.

"troll"? did i attack you? did i make you feel bad? did i belittle you?

maybe you let me. maybe you let my words sink into your heart and ring true. its a pain to the ego when you are challenged, i understand. i empathize. if what i said didnt matter and werent true maybe there wouldnt be an argument. i think its more about who people desperately long to be than the actual state of punk. which is indeed dead.

but, since the issue of trollishness has come up, and out of respect to the mods, ill stop speaking my mind and let those who seek to stifle me have their day. they can dance a little dance and pretend that punk isnt dead. when the masquerade is over they will be left with a stamped hand and nothing else. because punk is dead.

an acidic parting kiss for my lovelies here.

[Catch]

oh contraire mon shadow. indeed not emo, i celibrate what punk was and seek not to cheapen it. people keep throwing names of bands at me like babies onto the sacrificial pyre. sure, they want to be punk, they try to be punk, but that ship is gone.

"troll"? did i attack you? did i make you feel bad? did i belittle you?

maybe you let me. maybe you let my words sink into your heart and ring true. its a pain to the ego when you are challenged, i understand. i empathize. if what i said didnt matter and werent true maybe there wouldnt be an argument. i think its more about who people desperately long to be than the actual state of punk. which is indeed dead.

but, since the issue of trollishness has come up, and out of respect to the mods, ill stop speaking my mind and let those who seek to stifle me have their day. they can dance a little dance and pretend that punk isnt dead. when the masquerade is over they will be left with a stamped hand and nothing else. because punk is dead.

an acidic parting kiss for my lovelies here.


Okay, thanks for stopping by.

[Amotis]

I'm acutally interested in what ray thinks punk was.

[ElfLad]

Paul McCartney?

[Catch]

Paul McCartney?

I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

Wow. Have yourself a pat on the back.

[Nightmarenny]

I'm acutally interested in what ray thinks punk was.
Me too.

What I think

Punk-The belief that everyone should work for themselfs "Do it yourself" is the founding priciple. don't accept the wrongs in sociaty, fix it, don't wait for others to. Freedom is important, to not let anyone take freedom for it. Fight anyone that seeks to slave you to corporate, do not conform. Take direct action.

Is this wrong? Does he really think thats dead? Or how about the music?

Power chords, distortion, three chord tricks. Thats rather common.

[Amotis]

Stun gun guitar is everywhere. So is the standard punk lyrics. So is the image.


No idea. I await his answer.

[JabberwockySupafly]

Wow, Shadow, I keep finding reasons to post in your threads. Also, how did you find Mastodon? I remember suggesting them to you in a previous thread, didn't know if you checked them out yet. Also, just saw Blind Guardian in concert in Melbourne, and wow. What an amazing concert. They did the entire And Then There Was Silence (absolutely stunning live), they did The Bard's Song, Mirror,Mirror , Will of the One, Fly, and so many more just plain awesome songs. I have a hard time listening to them on CD now, it just pales in comparison . Anyways, back on to topic.


Punk Rock is not dead. It is simply not what you hear on the radio these days. Some of the punk bands I listen to are (this includes Ska as well, it just makes it easier than having to subclassify everything):

Flogging Molly, of course
Dropkick Murphies
The Descendents
Sublime (they are punk as much as they are ska and reggae)
The Ramones
The Clash
The Dead Milkmen
Killing Joke (both their new-wave/punk and newer (no, not Nu) metal incarnations)
The Misfits (the Danzig & the Graves incarnations)
Reel Big Fish
Less Than Jake
Black Flag
Anti-Nowhere League
Bad Religion (again, both incarnations)
NOFX
Propaghandi
AFI (again, both incarnations. Yes, I know they're pretty much emo or "goth-punk" but they're still good fun.)
Bad Brains (a bit of reggae/ska & punk)
Pennywise
Bouncing Souls
Toy Dolls


Pretty sure there are more, but off the top of my head I'm not able to put my finger on them. Hmmm...that's an odd anatomically based phrase.


Cheers
JS

[Andiamo]

I love punk, and recently I really got into the Celtic Punk scene when I saw the Dropkick Murphys in concert as they toured with Bad Religion. They left a big impression on me and I went out and got a bunch of their CDs, and became addicted pretty quickly.

Where did you see them? I was at the Toronto show, that was one damn good concert.

Anyways, punk is far and away my favourite genre of music. Authority Zero is my favourite band, check them out at:
myspace.com/authorityzero

[Shadow of the Sun]

Yeah, I loved them Jabber. They have a really cool sound, I like it.

The golden age of punk has passed. But as long as the ethic and the music survives, it will still be punk. The ethic is still there, and so is the music. I agree with the punk ethic, even though I am primarily a metal fan. Kinda funny, I have to say.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

One request: Define what "punk" is. I went to a "punk" show not too long ago; because I was drunk and did not know any better. Everywhere I looked, I saw people with so many piercings they could pick up FM. Enough Black Leather to re-build the Bovine race. In the midst of all this "punk" was nothing but conformity. My thought was that being "punk" was not conforming to what everyone else is doing; but they were conforming to what the other "punks" were doing.

I am not trying to flame; I am only making a comment on my perception of what I remember. Decide to reply if you wish; I want to read your opinion.

As far as music that may be defined as "punk" ; some of it was good; but most of it was a little derivative of itself ; meaning all Green Day (for example) songs sound exactly the same.

[Nightmarenny]

One request: Define what "punk" is. I went to a "punk" show not too long ago; because I was drunk and did not know any better. Everywhere I looked, I saw people with so many piercings they could pick up FM. Enough Black Leather to re-build the Bovine race. In the midst of all this "punk" was nothing but conformity. My thought was that being "punk" was not conforming to what everyone else is doing; but they were conforming to what the other "punks" were doing.

I am not trying to flame; I am only making a comment on my perception of what I remember. Decide to reply if you wish; I want to read your opinion.

As far as music that may be defined as "punk" ; some of it was good; but most of it was a little derivative of itself ; meaning all Green Day (for example) songs sound exactly the same.
Let me ask you something. There is a fashion. It involves piercing and tatoos and leather and stuff. You like that stuff and you diside to wear it. Many other people like it aswell and do the same. Are they comforming? No they are just wearing what they like which is unsuprisingly similer to what their friends like. Sure someone there probably whore it to be "cool" but don't you think your making a rather big assumtion?

Me and my friends wear similer cloths and shop at the same store I and, as far as I know, my friends wore the stuff because they like it. Even then we have some outliers that don't wear similer cloths. We don't really care, they just arn't into it. Even the nwe have a bunch of "sub-style's" I for one wear almost nothing but band shirts, some don't have a single one, some wear it as much as me. Does it matter?

[Ethdred]

And no, punk is not dead, although it does smell that way sometimes.


You rotten swine, you stole my line (though I stole it from Kenny Everett).

Punk is not about the music, unless someone wants to show me what the unifying musical theme is on London Calling. Punk is an attitude - it's about being in a band because you want to and your mates want to and regardless of whether you can play or not or have anything to say. It's about starting a fanzine because you are really passionate about some little thing that is of no importance to 99% of the population. It's about doing artwork because you want to put some colour on paper or get something out of your system regardless of whether anyone else can see it. It is about going your own way, whether that way is followed by no-one else or everyone else. It's about doing things that the big companies and the majority populations can't even conceive of doing. So wherever somebody is striking out on their own, doing something they think is new regardless of however many times it has been done before, trying something for the first time, not worrying about what anyone else thinks about it - in all these places, the ghosts of Johnny Thunders, Mick Jones and Fergal Sharkey's credibility can look down and say 'Yeah, verily, punk is not dead'.

Sorry, rant over.

Btw, those who are talking about Celtic Punk or Folk Punk (jeez louise, who thinks up these stupid categories???) should really check out The Undertones and especially Stiff Little Fingers. And I am really surprised that only one person has mentioned the Pogues - I mean, where do you think the Dropkick Murphys got their ideas from? And you should also check out the original folk guys - The Chieftains, the Clancys etc OK, they do some soppy ballads but basically they were punk long before Sid Viscous ripped his first pair of jeans.

As for Ska, a great new(ish) British ska band who are curently clubbing around were refused play on Radio 1 because 'your ska isn't Californian enough'. Anyone who does not appreciate the utter loathsomeness of that statement does not realise how bad things have become. (The band's called The Big - good skanking tunes, lots of swearing and stunningly attractive sax players - and the lead singer/guitarist fills in as bass player for the Beat when they play together.)

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Let me ask you something. There is a fashion. It involves piercing and tatoos and leather and stuff. You like that stuff and you diside to wear it. Many other people like it aswell and do the same. Are they comforming? No they are just wearing what they like which is unsuprisingly similer to what their friends like. Sure someone there probably whore it to be "cool" but don't you think your making a rather big assumtion?

Me and my friends wear similer cloths and shop at the same store I and, as far as I know, my friends wore the stuff because they like it. Even then we have some outliers that don't wear similer cloths. We don't really care, they just arn't into it. Even the nwe have a bunch of "sub-style's" I for one wear almost nothing but band shirts, some don't have a single one, some wear it as much as me. Does it matter?

'tis well understood; The general question was not one of that what someone likes; it was a comment on what on the surface looks to be total conformity. I do applaud that you took the time to reply, thank you. My concern is one of the generalist "need to be oneself"; however, the ones that I have spoken too tell me that it is a matter of "what the other punks are doing". That was the scary part. People can dress how they want; I could honestly not care less. It's their life. Where I was going with the statement is that if someone is trying to be themself, should one not find their own "style" or behaivoir and go with that; instead of conforming to yet another style and behaivior? One thing that I had not mentioned is that in the sea of black leather and metal, there was one dude wearing a fuzzy pink Zoot suit. That, to me, is total non-conformist and ultimate Punk because he was not conforming to what all the others were doing; it may have even been a one day thing; but it was awesome to say the least.

[Amotis]

Individualism is a weird thing. Take example the Grateful Dead/Jefferson Airplane/Mamas And Papas eras of free concerts, legal acid, and lots of change. Now that was an era that really first started embracing individuals, to be cliched. Beat poets, San Fran, MPF, all that stuff. Open emotionally, personally, sexually, and all that good stuff. Really the first revolution of the youth (and if you don't think so watch any public announcement by good 'ol Regan at the time, you'll laugh, cry, and shake your head in shame.) There was this whole "image" of the flower children, hippies, and all that stuff. Now most people, like you, would connect them all together and really question what they're doing.

But in reality, and this extends to punk as well, the revolution was all strength in individualism with unity. The ideal that to break the social bindings and fix the problems, to be who you are, you need the power to do that. And that power comes in groups. You can't revolt with one. You can't change with one. While the whole may share a "image" or attitude, it ultimately leads to more individual freedom.

[Catch]

'tis well understood; The general question was not one of that what someone likes; it was a comment on what on the surface looks to be total conformity. I do applaud that you took the time to reply, thank you. My concern is one of the generalist "need to be oneself"; however, the ones that I have spoken too tell me that it is a matter of "what the other punks are doing". That was the scary part. People can dress how they want; I could honestly not care less. It's their life. Where I was going with the statement is that if someone is trying to be themself, should one not find their own "style" or behaivoir and go with that; instead of conforming to yet another style and behaivior? One thing that I had not mentioned is that in the sea of black leather and metal, there was one dude wearing a fuzzy pink Zoot suit. That, to me, is total non-conformist and ultimate Punk because he was not conforming to what all the others were doing; it may have even been a one day thing; but it was awesome to say the least.

With any subculture, there are fashion trends. Originally, punk fashion was intended to be anti-fashion. Clothes were dirty, torn, dark and contrasting, and often times intentionally offensive. Same goes for hairstyles. (I often make the point that early punks wore swastikas just for the sake of being obscene, and separate from the rise of skinhead punk or that RAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism) garbage.) There wasn't a cohesive style or icon other than looking like whatever the hell you wanted and exactly the opposite of what everyone expected. (If you want a good idea of what today's anti-fashion should be, take a look at Henry Rollins. Nondescript black shoes, generic black slacks, well-fitting black t-shirt, and an unrecognizable watch.)

As with all things, when groups of people get together, ideas spread, and trends begin. As punk shows became more popular (and populated) the anti-fashion look spread and evolved, becoming a fashion of its own. Early punks fed off each other's individuality and came together in a strange stance of unique cohesiveness. Some people point to the bands' influences on fashion, and while they were certainly icons, it was the fans that made the look. Great example: early critics used to blame the rise of safety-pin earrings and such on the Sex Pistols, at least until Johnny Rotten and Sid Vicious came out in an interview saying "We didn't start that sh*t. Kids just stared showing up with pins in their faces."

So after three or so decades of punk, having traversed from the underground, risen up to the mainstream (and started doing heroin), then settling somewhere between, I'll agree that the punk scenes have coalesced into a general semblance of fashion. It's hardly intentional, though. Real punk fashion is a choice, and the kids that really believe in it do so for the sake of portraying their own individuality through their dress. A lot of punks make their own clothes; those studded jackets you see aren't bought in stores. Everything from their hair right down to their shoes is a opportunity for self-expression. Many use the canvas they have, and craft their own image into something original and bold, and some just try to look like everyone else. Just remember that what you see as "all the same" is an entire world of difference to those who really care about it.

Long winded enough for ya? :smallwink:

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

With any subculture, there are fashion trends. Originally, punk fashion was intended to be anti-fashion. Clothes were dirty, torn, dark and contrasting, and often times intentionally offensive. Same goes for hairstyles. (I often make the point that early punks wore swastikas just for the sake of being obscene, and separate from the rise of skinhead punk or that RAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism) garbage.) There wasn't a cohesive style or icon other than looking like whatever the hell you wanted and exactly the opposite of what everyone expected. (If you want a good idea of what today's anti-fashion should be, take a look at Henry Rollins. Nondescript black shoes, generic black slacks, well-fitting black t-shirt, and an unrecognizable watch.)

As with all things, when groups of people get together, ideas spread, and trends begin. As punk shows became more popular (and populated) the anti-fashion look spread and evolved, becoming a fashion of its own. Early punks fed off each other's individuality and came together in a strange stance of unique cohesiveness. Some people point to the bands' influences on fashion, and while they were certainly icons, it was the fans that made the look. Great example: early critics used to blame the rise of safety-pin earrings and such on the Sex Pistols, at least until Johnny Rotten and Sid Vicious came out in an interview saying "We didn't start that sh*t. Kids just stared showing up with pins in their faces."

So after three or so decades of punk, having traversed from the underground, risen up to the mainstream (and started doing heroin), then settling somewhere between, I'll agree that the punk scenes have coalesced into a general semblance of fashion. It's hardly intentional, though. Real punk fashion is a choice, and the kids that really believe in it do so for the sake of portraying their own individuality through their dress. A lot of punks make their own clothes; those studded jackets you see aren't bought in stores. Everything from their hair right down to their shoes is a opportunity for self-expression. Many use the canvas they have, and craft their own image into something original and bold, and some just try to look like everyone else. Just remember that what you see as "all the same" is an entire world of difference to those who really care about it.

Long winded enough for ya? :smallwink:

I'm with Vaarsuvius, "a bit short for my taste". :smallwink: I do apprecite your feedback; and is very well stated.

I guess it all boils down to a couple of questions: "What do I identify with?", or "Who am I?". Everyone has that time in their life in which they ask these questions, and they endeavor to find and answer. It may be found with the punk culture, or with the hip-hop culture, or what have you. One thing that I hold true, is to be true to thine own self. The persons that I have the highest aversion to are those insinuate being a part of something they do not understand. I was never a part of any "group" or "sub-culture" in school or later years. I felt that how I protrayed myself was being true to me; not to an established pattern. Some enjoy the multitudes of piercings or wearing jeans that are 4 sizes too big; either way, to each their own. If this path helps them to figure who they are, more power to them. If that is punk, then so be it.

Anyway, back on topic... :smallredface: the early Punk music; Black Flag, Ramones, etc. was an important influence on modern music and should be honored as such. I have not heard many of the bands that were mentioened in this entertaining thread; but I am willing to open my mind to it. I do have quite a broad musical taste, in my opinion.

[Nightmarenny]

With any subculture, there are fashion trends. Originally, punk fashion was intended to be anti-fashion. Clothes were dirty, torn, dark and contrasting, and often times intentionally offensive. Same goes for hairstyles. (I often make the point that early punks wore swastikas just for the sake of being obscene, and separate from the rise of skinhead punk or that RAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism) garbage.) There wasn't a cohesive style or icon other than looking like whatever the hell you wanted and exactly the opposite of what everyone expected. (If you want a good idea of what today's anti-fashion should be, take a look at Henry Rollins. Nondescript black shoes, generic black slacks, well-fitting black t-shirt, and an unrecognizable watch.)

As with all things, when groups of people get together, ideas spread, and trends begin. As punk shows became more popular (and populated) the anti-fashion look spread and evolved, becoming a fashion of its own. Early punks fed off each other's individuality and came together in a strange stance of unique cohesiveness. Some people point to the bands' influences on fashion, and while they were certainly icons, it was the fans that made the look. Great example: early critics used to blame the rise of safety-pin earrings and such on the Sex Pistols, at least until Johnny Rotten and Sid Vicious came out in an interview saying "We didn't start that sh*t. Kids just stared showing up with pins in their faces."

So after three or so decades of punk, having traversed from the underground, risen up to the mainstream (and started doing heroin), then settling somewhere between, I'll agree that the punk scenes have coalesced into a general semblance of fashion. It's hardly intentional, though. Real punk fashion is a choice, and the kids that really believe in it do so for the sake of portraying their own individuality through their dress. A lot of punks make their own clothes; those studded jackets you see aren't bought in stores. Everything from their hair right down to their shoes is a opportunity for self-expression. Many use the canvas they have, and craft their own image into something original and bold, and some just try to look like everyone else. Just remember that what you see as "all the same" is an entire world of difference to those who really care about it.

Long winded enough for ya? :smallwink:
Note to self-Learn how to self studd things. Awesome.

[JabberwockySupafly]

*snip*
Btw, those who are talking about Celtic Punk or Folk Punk (jeez louise, who thinks up these stupid categories???) should really check out The Undertones and especially Stiff Little Fingers. And I am really surprised that only one person has mentioned the Pogues - I mean, where do you think the Dropkick Murphys got their ideas from? And you should also check out the original folk guys - The Chieftains, the Clancys etc OK, they do some soppy ballads but basically they were punk long before Sid Viscous ripped his first pair of jeans.
*snip*



Heheheh...my bad. I completely forgot to mention the Pogues. It's one of those bands I listen to so much I just kind of forget that other people may not know who they are. Another band I forgot to mention is The Vandals.



Cheers.
JS

[Catch]

Note to self-Learn how to self studd things. Awesome.

You can get packs of studs and all sorts of patches here (http://www.angryyoungandpoor.com/store/pc/mainindex.asp), and I think there's a couple how-to guides online for making clothes and such. Also, make sure you buy brass-based studs instead of steel. They don't wear out as fast and getting 'em wet won't be a problem.

[Nightmarenny]

Thanks!:smallsmile:

Could I talk about My Chemical Romance for a sec? Their new CD "the Black Parade". Would it seem inapropriate to call it Post-Punk Metal or Rock? It shares some "Punk-ish feel" I believe alot of people like to call it either emo or Pop-Punk. However its alot more like old rock than punk. The constant score of complicated lead guitar being an example.

[Catch]

Thanks!:smallsmile:

Could I talk about My Chemical Romance for a sec? Their new CD "the Black Parade". Would it seem inappropriate to call it Post-Punk Metal or Rock? It shares some "Punk-ish feel" I believe a lot of people like to call it either emo or Pop-Punk. However its a lot more like old rock than punk. The constant score of complicated lead guitar being an example.

Despite mixed cries from fans and opponents alike, MCR is generally alt-rock. The band themselves have claimed to be just generic "rock" or jokingly, "what-else-ya-got emo."

In terms of The Black Parade, MCR had a lot of really classic influences for the albums sound, including A Night at the Opera (Queen), Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (the Beatles), The Wall (Pink Floyd), and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (Smashing Pumpkins). None of that is really punk, and neither is the album.

Really, people just need to stop tacking "-punk" onto everything.

[Lucky]

Where did you see them? I was at the Toronto show, that was one damn good concert.
The Ottawa concert around September 17th, 2006. Can't remember the exact date, but it really was an amazing concert. My ears were ringing two days afterwards.

[Amotis]

I remember when the My Chemical Romance frontmant (bah, don't know his name) said something at an interview along the lines of "I love musicals."

I couldn't stop laughing. I couldn't imagine anything more out of character coming from his mouth. Not that that's a bad thing or whatever, whatever floats your boat, but from him? Funny.

[geek_2049]

I maybe have missed it but I have not seen any mention of some classic punk bands such as Dead Kennedys, Jello Biafra, Mojo Nixon, Blondie, Siouxsie and the Banshees (pioneers for Goth/Emo Punk), Social D, Circle Jerks, Suicidal Tendencies, No Use For A Name, Op Ivy, Rancid, etc. I recommend Hi Standard, Diesel Boy, and FYP all good 90's punk.

Velvet Underground can be classified as either punk or a great inspiration for punk.

A quick retort on the punk is dead concept. So true that in the 30+ yrs since punk's inception as a form of music people have laid claim that it is dead. Great punk bands that are known internationally throughout all locales where people listen to punk crop up every now and then, it is especially during these in between intervals where there are no new great punk bands that people claim punk is dead. However these people fail to realize that punk in its truest form is grass roots oriented. Iirc punk originated as somewhat of a backlash against mainstream pop music, namely disco in the 70's, so punk bands that are well known are often more of an exception than a standard. Many posters have named various local bands as counter proofs that punk is not dead (which is valid), but also supports my in-betweenness proposition.

I speculate that when people today claim punk is dead, namely those most accustomed with older punk, is because they are subjected to these pop-punk bands on the radio/MTV. They say punk is dead but a mutation of punk, pop punk, has come full circle and now represents the very music which inspired punk hence they perceive the spirit of punk to be dead. However these people ought to check out their local venues first.

[Scorpina]

Not really that into punk. I like the 'Irish punk' type bands, Flogging Molly in particular, and the 'punk caberet' style of The Dresden Dolls, but old fashioned punk? Not so much.

[Warpfire]

Flogging Molly says their punk, everyone else says their punk, but when I listen to them I never really think 'this is punk rock/punk folk/etc..' Maybe it's because I don't listen to a lot of punk music and don't really know what punk is, though.

They're still awesome, in any case.

[NecroPaladin]

I've always liked NOFX and other "smart" punk bands, but unfortunately it's a genre with a lot of open space to fill with crappy music along with the good. Punk is a very hit-and-miss genre when it comes to what I like.