Is this guy too tough for my players?

[MonkeySage]

I've been having difficulty designing encounters for my players, partly due to having underestimated what they're capable of based solely on the numbers. Encounters that have been classified as "Very difficult", such as the last one they were in, have been breezed through. My players are a level 5 rogue, level 4 cleric, level 4 magus, level 4 wizard, level 4 ranger, and level 3 druid. All of them are core races.
This is the first encounter they've had with a competent spellcaster... last time they faced a level 3 sorcerer, he was dead within the first 4 rounds, thanks to the rogue.

The fight is supposed to be a big, right in the middle of a village square, unexpected thing. Villagers have congregated to witness the beheading of their mayor, whose been accused of heresy and treason.

The caster is the leader of a small compliment of imperial guards, but as yet I don't know how many guards, or what levels they should be. I know that they are human fighters, maybe a cleric thrown in. Some of my players are new, but most of them have been playing since we started last year(this is however, their first 3e+ game). Most are inexperienced in role playing. Should my players choose to fight, they will be joined by 2 level 3 npc rogues, rebels trying to stop the execution of one of their allies. (I intend to give the players control of these npcs so as not to give them too much of an advantage; their presence is a hint at the plot of the story - that the empire is not unchallenged, perhaps sewing a seed for my players).

Given the number of players, and their powers, and taking the presence of 2 additional npcs into account, what in addition to the guy below would constitute a challenging encounter?



Sir Niels von Emmerich
Race: Human---- Class: Wizard 8 CR: 8 Alignment: LE
Ability- Str: 9 Dex: 12 Con: 14 Int: 22 Wis: 10 Cha: 12
HD: 8d6 Hit Points: /50 Speed: 30 ft AC: 12 Touch: 11 Flat Footed: 11
Armor: Ceremonial +1 AC
Weapon: Ceremonial Shortsword 1d6
BAB +4 Attack: +3 1d6-1
CMB +3 CMD 14
Feats(6): Light armor proficiency, Empower Spell, Weapon Focus (Ray), Forge Ring, Magical Aptitude, Acrobatic
Skills: Fly 8, Knowledge Arcana 13, Spellcraft 13, Linguistics 13

Prepared Spells -
Cantrips: 6 Bleed, Flare, Touch of Fatigue, Daze, Ray of Frost, Message
Level 1: 5 Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shield, Mage Armor
Level 2: 4 Protection from Arrows, Scorching Ray, Hideous Laughter, Summon Monster II
Level 3: 4 Fly, Empowered Magic Missile, Ray of Exhaustion, Lightning Bolt
Level 4: 3 Dimension Door, Wall of Ice, Enervation

[Dr.Gara]

I sorta doubt it, but it does hugely depend on how he's played. If he is flying and they don't have any way to shoot him, he is effectively invincible. But they probably do, even if it's just a couple of bows across the party. It would also depend on what the hostile NPC fighters do. If they are there harassing them with the cleric supporting, that would buy the wizard more time to hit them with missiles. You might consider giving him a crossbow, while you're at it, for if he runs out of magic.

Also, they can't shoot him very well even if they have archers and the fighters get close to them, because they'd be AoO'd tons.

[MonkeySage]

I should point that for my players, the front liners are the cleric and magus, with the cleric being the strongest member of the party. The party wizard is in possession of a barely used Wand of Missiles, with a caster level of 2, as well as a short bow, and they have a mist projector with 1 charge(they have not yet figured out what it is or how to use it). Both the ranger and the rogue are well stocked with arrows, the druid has his sling.

The enemy wizard's spell choice is geared towards crowded combat situations, since he is used to dealing with dissent with the help of his personal body guards.

The enemy party also has the help of the executioner, armed with a great axe.

[(Un)Inspired]

Have the wizard drop empower magic missle and lightning bolt in favor of 2 SM IIIs prepared and he should be an ok challenge for your party. Otherwise he's too weak.

With a big party, like your, a single enemy is gonna be in trouble due to the sheer weight of the action economy against him. Let him get some allies onto the field and he might survive enough to be a challenge. Fiendish badgers are my favorite SMIII choice.

[Dr.Gara]

Alright, that does change things a bit. I think figuring out the numbers of the enemy and the levels will help a fair bit, to be honest. Like I said, a number of fighters packed in close to the archer will make things lethal for them, as well as them trying to do something like sunder the wand. Like I said, it will largely depend on the strategy, as well as what the casters have prepared.

[Hamste]

I should point that for my players, the front liners are the cleric and magus, with the cleric being the strongest member of the party. The party wizard is in possession of a barely used Wand of Missiles, with a caster level of 2, as well as a short bow, and they have a mist projector with 1 charge(they have not yet figured out what it is or how to use it). Both the ranger and the rogue are well stocked with arrows, the druid has his sling.

The enemy wizard's spell choice is geared towards crowded combat situations, since he is used to dealing with dissent with the help of his personal body guards.

The enemy party also has the help of the executioner, armed with a great axe.

Are their ranged weapons magic? Also I take it they aren't very optimized (it took them 4 turns to kill a level 3 sorcerer even if they were level 1)? Either way it is unlikely they will be able kill him if he is played well unless he dies in the first turn or if they have flying (flight, dim door and wall of ice make sure of that)

[Red Fel]

Way I see it, he's going to be flying, firing ranged magical attacks, and enjoying DR 10/magic against arrows.

So your Rogue and Ranger are out of the picture. Let's look at the rest.

You have a Magus 4. That means he has cantrips and 1st- and 2nd-level spells. He has a few ranged spells, assuming he knows them and has them prepared, that he can use. Unfortunately, the rest of his class features will be mostly ineffectual.

You have a Cleric 4. He also enjoys orisons and 1st- and 2nd-level spells. His ranged arsenal is rather pathetic. He's probably out of the running for this one.

You have a Druid 3. Again with the spells. He has a few extra options over the Cleric's with those, but again it's rather paltry. And since he's only level 3, he can't even Wild Shape into something more useful.

Finally, you have a Wizard 4. He's probably going to have the most firepower for this fight. So it'll basically be up to him and the Magus (assuming the Magus has the spells needed).

You're pitting a flying enemy who is protected against arrows and can teleport against a party of six, only two of whom have a multitude of ranged options. He's not necessarily too tough, but if he plays at all smartly he is too untouchable.

Can he be beaten? Sure. Let him fly through the village, cackling and wasting ammunition, while the PCs flee for their lives. Let him chase them into an enclosed area where his altitude advantage is negated. Let him conveniently forget his useful spells. Basically, let him be an incompetent moron, and they'll probably beat him.

Barring that? Fly is, on its own, a game-changer. It radically alters the combat dynamic. You have (smartly) combined that with Protection from Arrows, along with an array of effective ranged attacks. Even for a party of level 8 characters, this could be a challenge. And these guys are half that.

[MonkeySage]

What would you suggest so that he is challenging, but still beatable without acting like a total baffoon?

[Red Fel]

What would you suggest so that he is challenging, but still beatable without acting like a total baffoon?

Short version? Take away Fly. It's sad, but true; at this stage for the PCs, facing a flying opponent who can rain death while being mostly immune to their ranged artillery is going to be hideously one-sided. If he can't fly, he can still be a threat, just one they can actually reach.

Keep him mobile, use the landscape, don't let him get cornered, but don't take the fight off of the two-dimensional plane. Instead of pure blasting, give him more battlefield control spells that he can use to divide up or temporarily weaken or disable members of the party. The sort of things that make it difficult, but not impossible, for the PCs to deliver pain.

[arclance]

Barring that? Fly is, on its own, a game-changer. It radically alters the combat dynamic. You have (smartly) combined that with Protection from Arrows, along with an array of effective ranged attacks. Even for a party of level 8 characters, this could be a challenge. And these guys are half that.
Are they the kind of players who would think "Grappling Hook + Long Rope = Get Over Here"?
I had a archer who did that once though he had a 16 STR and 20 DEX so he could make the throw and yank them out of the sky.

[Shieldbunny]

If you have your heart set on a flying Mage battle though, you could instead take away protection from arrows. It's really the combination of those two that takes your mundanes out of the fight.

[arclance]

If you have your heart set on a flying Mage battle though, you could instead take away protection from arrows. It's really the combination of those two that takes your mundanes out of the fight.
Maybe replace the protection from arrows with some AC buff spell, the existing AC 12 is very low.
12 AC is "the wizard took of his shoe and threw it at him" territory.

If you can get his AC high enough he might not get pincushioned too quickly.
Make sure his allies are threatening enough to not be ignored to decrease the chance of them foucus firing him quickly.

[Shieldbunny]

Maybe replace the protection from arrows with some AC buff spell, the existing AC 12 is very low.
12 AC is "the wizard took of his shoe and threw it at him" territory.

If you can get his AC high enough he might not get pincushioned too quickly.
Make sure his allies are threatening enough to not be ignored to decrease the chance of them foucus firing him quickly.

I don't think that 12 takes into account Mage Armor (which should be up before the beheading), and shield (Spell number two of the encounter). So your looking at 20 AC actually. Replace it with Mirror Image or Blur, as a few examples from core of other defensive buffs that still give your physical types a chance with ranged weapons.

EDIT: Make that AC 19 as he apparently has ceremonial armor worth +1, an that wouldn't stack with mage armor.

[Crustypeanut]

I agree - leave him with Fly, but take away Protection from Arrows. A flying spellcaster is much more interesting than one highly durable against arrows who's stuck on the ground. This way, you have to force the players to use different tactics, without necessarily nullifying those tactics as well.

[caimbuel]

Unless you break the rules and give the monster/bad guy 3x or more hps a single BBEG is very bad. They loose out on action economy, and to not have them die in 1 to 2 rounds is almost a miracle.

When it is closer to the same number of bad guys as PC's it is a much more epic fight. I know MMORPG's/books/movies like the single bad guy, but it does not work with this edition of DnD.

[Shieldbunny]

Unless you break the rules and give the monster/bad guy 3x or more hps a single BBEG is very bad. They loose out on action economy, and to not have them die in 1 to 2 rounds is almost a miracle.

When it is closer to the same number of bad guys as PC's it is a much more epic fight. I know MMORPG's/books/movies like the single bad guy, but it does not work with this edition of DnD.

This is also true. Though with the fight being at an execution, I kind of assumed the BBEG would have at least the guards and executioner on his side.

[MonkeySage]

Well, the first step I felt was to balance out the main baddie, the wizard. I think the guards will be level 4 and executioner will be level 5. Thanks to the suggestions you've all given for the wizard, I think I've about got him figured out. Now I just need to know how many friends he's brought with them, within reason.

The "village" is more like a merchant settlement(the mayor was himself a merchant, founded the settlement seeking profit). Population: 20, plus body guards for the merchants, and including 1 shaman. The guards that have accompanied the wizard are imperial soldiers.