Charge and pounce number of attacks question

[gawwy]

I have a player who's built a charger with a 1 level dip in lion barb for pounce. he has just hit 6th level and has 6/1 as his itteratives on a full attack.

he is claiming that as pounce says you can follow a charge with a full attack that he get 3 attacks when he charges 6/6/1.

this goes against how i thought pounce worked (i think he moves and gets his full attack[6/1]).

who is right RAW?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Pounce allows you to full attack when charging instead of the normal single attack you make at the end of a charge. If his full attack is normally 6/6/1 then he gets that, but if his normal full attack is only 6/1 then that's all the attacks he gets to make when charging.

[gawwy]

thank you :)

[Psyren]

If he's hasted (or has a Speed weapon) he will get 6/6/1, could that be the source of his calculation?

(EDIT: And don't forget that since he's charging, it will actually be 8/3 or 8/8/3 before other modifiers.)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Since he has a Barbarian level, he may be using Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) which allows him to make an additional attack when he full attacks.

[Thurbane]

Does he possibly have the Whirling Frenzy ACF? That might explain the 6/6/1 attack routine.

Ninja'd

[Darrin]

This is ambiguous according to the text in the Monster Manual:

"Pounce (Ex): When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack—including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability."
(emphasis added)

If you interpret this very strictly by RAW, then you could argue that the full attack happens after the charge action is complete. That means your Pouncebarian would complete the charge first, including his single melee attack per the Charge rules. A full attack would then follow this.

However, that's not how most people interpret this. The most commonly accepted interpretation is the full attack follows the movement portion of the charge and it replaces the single melee attack with a full attack.

I haven't heard of anyone actually allowing the full attack to happen after the charge action is complete, because most DMs tend to really freak out when melee gets nice things.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This is ambiguous according to the text in the Monster Manual:

"Pounce (Ex): When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack—including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability."
(emphasis added)

If you interpret this very strictly by RAW, then you could argue that the full attack happens after the charge action is complete. That means your Pouncebarian would complete the charge first, including his single melee attack per the Charge rules. A full attack would then follow this.

However, that's not how most people interpret this. The most commonly accepted interpretation is the full attack follows the movement portion of the charge and it replaces the single melee attack with a full attack.

I haven't heard of anyone actually allowing the full attack to happen after the charge action is complete, because most DMs tend to really freak out when melee gets nice things.

There are a lot of monsters with pounce. I'd say it's in the party's best interests if the commonly accepted version is used.

[tyckspoon]

This is ambiguous according to the text in the Monster Manual:

"Pounce (Ex): When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack—including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability."
(emphasis added)

If you interpret this very strictly by RAW, then you could argue that the full attack haP

I haven't heard of anyone actually allowing the full attack to happen after the charge action is complete, because most DMs tend to really freak out when melee gets nice things.
This would actually be less nice for melee - if you have one charge attack followed by a normal full attack, you only get one attack to be boosted by things like Leap Attack and Spirited Charge.