Minotaur, monterous humanoid levels and level adjust. What level and why

[evangaline]

Greetings,
One of my players asked if he could play a minotaur, and I said yes. We started to look at what he would get and for what price. I was however amazed with how good it is.

The thing I was wondering concerns their racial hit dice:
Racial Hit Dice: A minotaur begins with six levels of monstrous
humanoid, which provide 6d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus
of +6, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +2, Ref +5, and Will +5.

Does this mean that the minotaur gains six warrior levels (the NPC fighter class) for a +2 level adjust?
Are there any special terms and conditions I have missed?

[Shieldbunny]

Greetings,
One of my players asked if he could play a minotaur, and I said yes. We started to look at what he would get and for what price. I was however amazed with how good it is.

The thing I was wondering concerns their racial hit dice:
Racial Hit Dice: A minotaur begins with six levels of monstrous
humanoid, which provide 6d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus
of +6, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +2, Ref +5, and Will +5.

Does this mean that the minotaur gains six warrior levels (the NPC fighter class) for a +2 level adjust?
Are there any special terms and conditions I have missed?

Don't forget the natural Gore attack. :smalltongue:

He actually gets better than the equivalent of 6 Warrior levels. Just remember he's at least an 8th level character 6 Racial HD + 2 LA.

EDIT: Also don't forget the immunity to maze spells, and never being caught flatfooted, Scent, Darkvision, Massive Strength bonus, Good Con bump, Naturally occurring natural armor. All that is hat leads to the +2 LA.

[evangaline]

Don't forget the natural Gore attack. :smalltongue:

He actually gets better than the equivalent of 6 Warrior levels. Just remember he's at least an 8th level character 6 Racial HD + 2 LA.

EDIT: Also don't forget the immunity to maze spells, and never being caught flatfooted, Scent, Darkvision, Massive Strength bonus, Good Con bump, Naturally occurring natural armor. All that is hat leads to the +2 LA.

So if I get this straight he gets all the abilities while he is being forced to take levels in monsterous humanoid until he is character level 8? We started at level 3 so he would have 1d8 worth of hp and 1 bab? For example he would be a minotaur monsterous humanoid 1 as a level 3 character?

[Shieldbunny]

So if I get this straight he gets all the abilities while he is being forced to take levels in monsterous humanoid until he is character level 8? We started at level 3 so he would have 1d8 worth of hp and 1 bab? For example he would be a minotaur monsterous humanoid 1 as a level 3 character?

Um, no. Savage Species(I believe) has rules for Monster Racial Classes. If you can't find/Don't want to use said rules, He can't be a Minotaur in a ECL 3 campaign, because he starts as a ECL 8 Character.

[Red Fel]

There is a difference between RHD and LA.

LA (level adjustment) basically just makes you start at a higher ECL. But on the plus side, it can be bought off if you're using LA buyoff rules.

RHD (racial hit die) grant feats, extra features, etc., and in that sense does more for the character than LA. On the minus side, however, it cannot be bought off.

Your total ECL equals your character levels, plus LA (if any), plus RHD (if any).

So, a creature with 6 RHD and +2 LA starts as an ECL 8 character, before factoring in character levels. Even if you allow LA buyoff, he'll still start at ECL 6.

The monstrous progression rules from Savage Species have been mentioned, and would allow you to spread that pain across multiple levels, but it's still a general frustration. As a rule, LA is preferred to RHD, because it can be gotten rid of.

[Xaktsaroth]

Um, no. Savage Species(I believe) has rules for Monster Racial Classes. If you can't find/Don't want to use said rules, He can't be a Minotaur in a ECL 3 campaign, because he starts as a ECL 8 Character.

Unless you use the Savage Progression:

Minotaur was the sample class. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030202)

That'll give you the break-down you need for the lower levels.

[Socksy]

Greetings,
One of my players asked if he could play a minotaur, and I said yes. We started to look at what he would get and for what price. I was however amazed with how good it is.

The thing I was wondering concerns their racial hit dice:
Racial Hit Dice: A minotaur begins with six levels of monstrous
humanoid, which provide 6d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus
of +6, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +2, Ref +5, and Will +5.

Does this mean that the minotaur gains six warrior levels (the NPC fighter class) for a +2 level adjust?
Are there any special terms and conditions I have missed?

I used to think it worked like that, but sadly it does not.
Those 6HD means that every minotaur has six levels of monstrous humanoid (not warrior).

So when the rest of the party is level 8, it has no class levels, and when they're level 9, it's level 1 (you add the levels of monstrous humanoid, the class levels, and the LA).

Its 6 levels of monstrous humanoid give it 6d8 HP, BAB +6, three feats (you use total HD for feats, so it won't get another feat until it hits level 3 in its character class), and skill points equal to (2 + INT modifier) x 9.

EDIT:
As a rule, LA is preferred to RHD, because it can be gotten rid of. I suppose you could cosy up to a Wight...

[Shieldbunny]

EDIT: I suppose you could cosy up to a Wight...

Minotaur Pale Master? :smalleek:

[Socksy]

Minotaur Pale Master? :smalleek:

This is retroactively EXACTLY what I meant by "cosy up" :smalltongue::smallbiggrin::smallwink::smallsmile: :smallredface:

[Urpriest]

This has all been (mostly) covered by other posters, but you really ought to read my Monster Handbook. (Link in sig.) It should have everything you need to know about playing monsters.