PDA

View Full Version : Obtaining Flight Without A Personal Fly Speed: Flying Mounts



Segev
2014-07-28, 09:21 AM
We all know that one of the big weaknesses of our poor, disadvantaged Tier 4 and 5 characters tends to be that, even if they can be a serious threat in combat, they're often optimized for melee and many things can just stay away from them. Most notably, anything that can fly can make a melee character rather impotent.

One somewhat silly solution is to make a lot of jump checks, but few builds not geared strictly for maximizing jump can reasonably expect to get in reach of serious flying foes. Worse, such tactics may require heavy investment in feats in order to get Spring Attack, which only grants ONE attack per round. It's questionable whether a Charge can include a jump, but if it can, that might do it. Just have to charge every round (a plus for Ubercharger builds).

Alternatively, one could pursue magical flight, but that often has its own drawbacks (most often in the form of great expense or utter reliance on a friendly spellcaster).

One of the iconic ways, particularly for a fighter or paladin, to obtain unusual movement methods, however, is from one's mount.

Obviously, a paladin gets a mount as a class feature. So, too, can a ranger. These can eventually be flying creatures.

For those without that option, either buying or obtaining a mount as a cohort seems plausible.

Mounts have a few drawbacks, though fortunately, a small rider can use a medium mount, thus avoiding the dreaded problem of getting a horse down into a dungeon. (Of course, any party which includes a Large party member will have similar problems.)

But also, not all mounts can fly. I seem to recall a magic item that was a winged saddle, though I don't remember where it was, nor its price nor uses/day or any other statistics.

Horseshoes of the Zephyr could, with some work, suffice. To pull this off, one would need a way to get arbitrary paths of some material more substantial than smoke. Since they can travel over liquids, it would seem odd if they couldn't, for instance, travel over the tops of tents without crushing the tents beneath them. But still, creating a path out of (say) cloth that holds itself in the air would be tricky.

This brings us to mounts which inherently fly. Again, Medium ones will work well for Small characters, as there are rarely places they could not go that the Medium party members could not.

The lowest-CR flying mount I could find was a Giant Bee. It's Medium, and is CR 1. It's also vermin. I am unsure if Handle Animal will let you train/handle Vermin, nor if there's a way to do it.

Giant Eagles and a few other creatures (griffons, pegasi, hyppogriffs, etc.) have rules for rearing them, including costs, but the specifics tend to gloss over how long it takes them to grow from egg/hatchling/foal to "big enough to carry a rider," and provides next to no rules for buying a fully-trained grown-up one.

Acquiring them as cohorts may just be easier, mechanically.

Similarly, once you get to mid-high levels, youngish dragons become available. Gold are available as wyrmlings at level 15 or so, if you can ride Medium mounts (i.e. you're Small). Level 12, if you pick up Draconic Cohort as a feat.



What other mounts are good, particularly for Small riders, to gain flight? What other magic items or techniques might be used to attain the same? Are there any cool tricks for Medium riders and their Large mounts to make them "dungeon-friendly?"

Red Fel
2014-07-28, 10:11 AM
Easiest method? Dragon Steed, from Draconomicon. You gain a Dragonnel as a mount, sort of like a cohort. If you're a Paladin, it can also be your Special Mount. They're Large, with a 40 foot land speed and 90 foot flight, average maneuverability.

One feat, and you're done.

Oddman80
2014-07-28, 01:57 PM
Buy any animal or beast mount you want. So long as its a WARBEAST (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/warbeast.shtml), the pricing is quite reasonable:
Market Price: The market price of a warbeast is a function of its Hit Dice: 50 gp/HD for a warbeast of 3 HD or less, or 100 gp + 75 gp/HD for one of 4 HD or more.

I had a post that just happened to get raised from the dead today - was looking at how to solve the large mount in the dungeon question... The solution - just grab yourself the shrink collar from Arms and Equipment. It will automatically make your mount Small, regardless of what its original size was. AND it doesn't effect the strength of the mount's attacks like reduce person/animal does. So get yourself a freakin' Roc Warbeast for just 1450 gp! Then throw on a shrink collar for another 10,000, now you can tear up the skies with total abandon, and also unleash your winged nightmare on any dungeon you like. Its been trained to battle, it doesn't flee in fear, and even as a small bird, it has a +21 to hit, flyby attack, power attack, and talons that do 2d6+12 damage each

A_S
2014-07-28, 02:25 PM
Raise Dead to get a zombified version of an appropriately sized Dragon is always a good option.

Vaz
2014-07-28, 02:39 PM
Zhentarim Skymage. Gain a flying creature of HD equal to Cha Mod+Class level (so around 17HD) as your cretin.

Segev
2014-07-28, 03:03 PM
It would also be helpful to have an idea of the earliest level at which you can possibly, and the earliest you can reasonably, obtain each of these.

For example, if you assume that Handle Animal can work on vermin, a Giant Bee could be tamed as early as ECL 1, as it's a CR 1 creature and thus might show up as a fight for a level 1 party.

sleepyphoenixx
2014-07-28, 03:03 PM
Zhentarim Skymage. Gain a flying creature of HD equal to Cha Mod+Class level (so around 17HD) as your cretin.

While certainly a nice class it's both campaign specific and not really an option for a mundane T4/5 character.

Normal animals have the problem that they're usually very vulnerable. If your mount dies, you fall. Intelligent creatures usually can't be trained as mounts and need to be hired or gotten as cohorts.
Either a magical item that grants flight or the Feathered Wings graft are safer options. If you insist on a mount at least get an item of Featherfall.

Vaz
2014-07-28, 03:12 PM
Not necessarily earlier on. A Hexblade or Paladin of Slaughter/Tyranny from 12th level onwards has with certain choices the ability to take it.

Vogonjeltz
2014-07-28, 04:14 PM
Giant Eagles and a few other creatures (griffons, pegasi, hyppogriffs, etc.) have rules for rearing them, including costs, but the specifics tend to gloss over how long it takes them to grow from egg/hatchling/foal to "big enough to carry a rider," and provides next to no rules for buying a fully-trained grown-up one.

I had to go to the trouble of looking at the monster descriptions on the SRD20 to find the answer to at least one of them:


Pegasi mature at the same rate as horses.



These animals are usually ready for heavy work by age three.

These animals are usually ready for useful work by age two.

They usually are not ready for warfare before age three.


I'd go ahead and just rule that Giant Eagles and Hippogriffs have similar maturation rates.
Heroes Of Battle has a bunch of war mounts listed at the back of the book, some of them are fairly awesome.