More questions from a clueless DM

[Silus]

Ah yes, more questions from a would-be DM. I'll try to section these up for ease of reading. Most of these SHOULD be mostly "How do I go about this" kind of questions with some tied to plans for the upcoming (in a few months maybe) campaign I aim to run.


Right, so there's a section of the setting I made that is essentially Slenderman the Tabletop (It's under the Geistwood section in the first link in my signature if you're interested). Long story short, humans that wander the island and are super unlucky get taken and warped into faceless Dopplegangers and used as deep cover sleeper agents that take on the impersonated individual's memories and personality, and only reveal themselves when activated. What I'd like to do is have one of the PCs be switched with a sleeper agent at some point for The Thing style shenanigans.

So what I'm wondering is:

1) Tips on running with this idea without angering the players?
2) Tips on hiding who may or may not be a sleeper agent from the players?
3) Tips on tricking, manipulating or causing an irrational sense of paranoia and unwarranted sense of mistrust in or for the more jaded and experienced players? Of particular note, the two guys in my group that seem to take great joy in manipulating me as a player. A little revenge is in order I feel (I just wanna watch them squirm and sweat it out), and anyone that knows of my group's...exploits will understand why.


Ok so two things I've learned over my games with the current group, 1) the players seem to have no qualms with PvP of any kind (Stealing, manipulating, extortion, etc.) and 2) they often tend to play evil characters unless directly specified not to (And then they go the "Over zealous might-as-well-be-evil" route). So in the campaign I plan on running, I'm going to mandate no evil characters or unwarranted PvP (Barring instances such as above or the like), and while I'd like to think the players would understand, I'd like to be ready for backlash from the players, either IC or OOC.

1) How can I enforce the "no evil characters" rule without having a LG NPC follow them around and police them (Not going to, but you get the idea)?
2) Overt PvP I feel is easy enough to curb, but some of the players (the two discussed in the first bit) seem far better at subtle manipulation than I am. Any tips on how to keep one or two players from Puppet-mastering the others?


Ok, so with the creation of my little homebrew setting has come....grumblings about the races allowed. Short of it, I have Orcs and Half-Orcs, but no Goblins or Kobolds, and some of my group is under the impression that those two races must be in the world for...reasons. Honestly I can't imagine why they'd want or desire them to be in the world aside from "I want to play a Goblin Ninja!" type things.

1) If I as the setting creator can't think of a good reason (aside from PC abuse) to not have the races in, should I add them in?
2) If not, how best to quell the grumblings of "Well I wanna play a Kobold/Goblin"?


Right, short and sweet for this one. The players tend to have a very bland "I wanna rule the world" goal it seems. How can I help curb this attitude, or at least show them that it's not a viable plan?


Right, so it may just be my cynical nature, but the players in my group don't seem to have much in the way of original plot ideas (barring, like, one player). As above, most of their goals revolve around becoming rulers and being all powerful whatnots. Any suggestions on steering them away and actually, you know, having them RP stuff beyond "I want to be the very best"?


Ok so the campaign I've planned is of the "Sandbox with plot rails scattered about" in that the PCs have free reign to wander about and do things but that there will be little plot hooks scattered about. I feel that I've fleshed out enough of the world where they'll be to allow for plenty of freedom and stuff, but what do I do if the players are all "Hey let's go here" and I've nothing planned for that section of the world?

[Diachronos]

Ok, so with the creation of my little homebrew setting has come....grumblings about the races allowed. Short of it, I have Orcs and Half-Orcs, but no Goblins or Kobolds, and some of my group is under the impression that those two races must be in the world for...reasons. Honestly I can't imagine why they'd want or desire them to be in the world aside from "I want to play a Goblin Ninja!" type things.

1) If I as the setting creator can't think of a good reason (aside from PC abuse) to not have the races in, should I add them in?
2) If not, how best to quell the grumblings of "Well I wanna play a Kobold/Goblin"?

Rather than having those races simply not exist, maybe you could rule that they were in the world, but they were rooted out by the "more civilized" races a long time ago and are now extinct.




Right, short and sweet for this one. The players tend to have a very bland "I wanna rule the world" goal it seems. How can I help curb this attitude, or at least show them that it's not a viable plan?

Let them become the ruler of a small area, like a decent-sized village with a good range of wilderness around it. And then have them constantly being pestered by the locals over some issue that's going on: bandit raids, poor harvests/hunting, property disputes, etc. Don't make it something ridiculous just to force them out of the leadership role, but make it enough for them to realize that "ruling the X" doesn't just mean "I'm the one in charge so you have to do what I say." Ruling something isn't just about people answering to you, you're going to have responsibilities to take care of the people you rule.




Ok so the campaign I've planned is of the "Sandbox with plot rails scattered about" in that the PCs have free reign to wander about and do things but that there will be little plot hooks scattered about. I feel that I've fleshed out enough of the world where they'll be to allow for plenty of freedom and stuff, but what do I do if the players are all "Hey let's go here" and I've nothing planned for that section of the world?
If you're not too attached to the way your world is right now, you could just rearrange locations so that instead of "the Mountain of ((WIP))", the party is going to "the Mountain of This Thing." Easier to do if your planned events aren't directly tied to that area, but depending on what you've worked out it might just need a little tweaking.
Maybe also consider admitting to the players that you don't have everything fleshed out for that spot yet, and asking if they could change their plans a little to give you time to finish up.
If all else fails, you can always try to improvise!

[nedz]

Right, so there's a section of the setting I made that is essentially Slenderman the Tabletop (It's under the Geistwood section in the first link in my signature if you're interested). Long story short, humans that wander the island and are super unlucky get taken and warped into faceless Dopplegangers and used as deep cover sleeper agents that take on the impersonated individual's memories and personality, and only reveal themselves when activated. What I'd like to do is have one of the PCs be switched with a sleeper agent at some point for The Thing style shenanigans.

So what I'm wondering is:

1) Tips on running with this idea without angering the players?
2) Tips on hiding who may or may not be a sleeper agent from the players?
3) Tips on tricking, manipulating or causing an irrational sense of paranoia and unwarranted sense of mistrust in or for the more jaded and experienced players? Of particular note, the two guys in my group that seem to take great joy in manipulating me as a player. A little revenge is in order I feel (I just wanna watch them squirm and sweat it out), and anyone that knows of my group's...exploits will understand why.
This gets done a lot so be aware that it might be old to some of your players. Plan on make it a short duration thing, but expect that this plan might go awry. Having the player role-play the situation is good, but which of your players are good enough role-players to do it and still actually enjoy the experience.


Ok so two things I've learned over my games with the current group, 1) the players seem to have no qualms with PvP of any kind (Stealing, manipulating, extortion, etc.) and 2) they often tend to play evil characters unless directly specified not to (And then they go the "Over zealous might-as-well-be-evil" route). So in the campaign I plan on running, I'm going to mandate no evil characters or unwarranted PvP (Barring instances such as above or the like), and while I'd like to think the players would understand, I'd like to be ready for backlash from the players, either IC or OOC.

1) How can I enforce the "no evil characters" rule without having a LG NPC follow them around and police them (Not going to, but you get the idea)?
2) Overt PvP I feel is easy enough to curb, but some of the players (the two discussed in the first bit) seem far better at subtle manipulation than I am. Any tips on how to keep one or two players from Puppet-mastering the others?
1a) Run an exalted campaign
1b) Run an all paladins campaign
1c) Run a campaign focussed on one deity
— that's assuming your player's are up for these.



Ok, so with the creation of my little homebrew setting has come....grumblings about the races allowed. Short of it, I have Orcs and Half-Orcs, but no Goblins or Kobolds, and some of my group is under the impression that those two races must be in the world for...reasons. Honestly I can't imagine why they'd want or desire them to be in the world aside from "I want to play a Goblin Ninja!" type things.

1) If I as the setting creator can't think of a good reason (aside from PC abuse) to not have the races in, should I add them in?
2) If not, how best to quell the grumblings of "Well I wanna play a Kobold/Goblin"?
They don't exist in the setting or have them as a designated antagonist race — so the player could only play an outlaw/traitor to their race.


Right, short and sweet for this one. The players tend to have a very bland "I wanna rule the world" goal it seems. How can I help curb this attitude, or at least show them that it's not a viable plan?
Request their business plan/spread sheets for the accounts/etc. Talk about what their taxation policy is going to be and how they will balance their budget.



Ok so the campaign I've planned is of the "Sandbox with plot rails scattered about" in that the PCs have free reign to wander about and do things but that there will be little plot hooks scattered about. I feel that I've fleshed out enough of the world where they'll be to allow for plenty of freedom and stuff, but what do I do if the players are all "Hey let's go here" and I've nothing planned for that section of the world?
Throw in a random encounter to buy time — ideally something which will add to the verisimilitude.

Ed: Formatting

[Airk]

Tell them you're tired of them always doing the same thing every game and go find a new group? :P

[draken50]

Non Evil Characters:
Explain that in your game if a character falls to evil, they become an NPC and they'll be re-rolling. I believe that may be what happens if you fall to the dark side as Jedi in the Star wars game. I'd say as long as it's a clear rule the players are aware of game start.

Goblins/Kobolds:
You are the DM, it's your game. If they don't like it they can play with someone else or run their own. I had similar whining about wanting to be half-dragons or have spell-fire or some crap. Set clear boundaries. "If you're going to keep complaining, find another game." Its not fun to say, but it's also not fun dealing with someone trying to manipulate you into getting their way.

Rule the world:
I'm assuming you have younger players, honestly, there's not a lot in my experience that changes the kinds of players you have... actually, yeah...

Goals:
ummm......... Yeah... so basically, talk to the players, tell them the kind of game you want to run, try to engage them. If they still just want to rule the world and screw each other over and stuff. Find players who want to play in the kind of game you want to run.

Off the rails:
Modular encounter design helps. Basically stuff that can happen or things to be found regardless of where the players go. Wanna have a horror adventure in a village, but the players went left instead of right. Well unless you already told them it was left. It's on the right now. A good game world gives ideas to inspire encounters and adventures. A bad one makes you feel confined.

Pause the game and figure out what you want to do. The players you've described probably won't care much about your overarching plot.

[Silus]

Rule the world:
I'm assuming you have younger players, honestly, there's not a lot in my experience that changes the kinds of players you have... actually, yeah...

Eheheh, you'd be surprised. At 26, I'm actually one of the younger members of the group. I couldn't tell ya what everyone's age is, but at least one seems to be in his 30's and the other is easily in his late 30's, early 40's.

[Thrudd]

Ah yes, more questions from a would-be DM. I'll try to section these up for ease of reading. Most of these SHOULD be mostly "How do I go about this" kind of questions with some tied to plans for the upcoming (in a few months maybe) campaign I aim to run.


Right, so there's a section of the setting I made that is essentially Slenderman the Tabletop (It's under the Geistwood section in the first link in my signature if you're interested). Long story short, humans that wander the island and are super unlucky get taken and warped into faceless Dopplegangers and used as deep cover sleeper agents that take on the impersonated individual's memories and personality, and only reveal themselves when activated. What I'd like to do is have one of the PCs be switched with a sleeper agent at some point for The Thing style shenanigans.

So what I'm wondering is:

1) Tips on running with this idea without angering the players?
2) Tips on hiding who may or may not be a sleeper agent from the players?
3) Tips on tricking, manipulating or causing an irrational sense of paranoia and unwarranted sense of mistrust in or for the more jaded and experienced players? Of particular note, the two guys in my group that seem to take great joy in manipulating me as a player. A little revenge is in order I feel (I just wanna watch them squirm and sweat it out), and anyone that knows of my group's...exploits will understand why.


Ok so two things I've learned over my games with the current group, 1) the players seem to have no qualms with PvP of any kind (Stealing, manipulating, extortion, etc.) and 2) they often tend to play evil characters unless directly specified not to (And then they go the "Over zealous might-as-well-be-evil" route). So in the campaign I plan on running, I'm going to mandate no evil characters or unwarranted PvP (Barring instances such as above or the like), and while I'd like to think the players would understand, I'd like to be ready for backlash from the players, either IC or OOC.

1) How can I enforce the "no evil characters" rule without having a LG NPC follow them around and police them (Not going to, but you get the idea)?
2) Overt PvP I feel is easy enough to curb, but some of the players (the two discussed in the first bit) seem far better at subtle manipulation than I am. Any tips on how to keep one or two players from Puppet-mastering the others?


Ok, so with the creation of my little homebrew setting has come....grumblings about the races allowed. Short of it, I have Orcs and Half-Orcs, but no Goblins or Kobolds, and some of my group is under the impression that those two races must be in the world for...reasons. Honestly I can't imagine why they'd want or desire them to be in the world aside from "I want to play a Goblin Ninja!" type things.

1) If I as the setting creator can't think of a good reason (aside from PC abuse) to not have the races in, should I add them in?
2) If not, how best to quell the grumblings of "Well I wanna play a Kobold/Goblin"?


Right, short and sweet for this one. The players tend to have a very bland "I wanna rule the world" goal it seems. How can I help curb this attitude, or at least show them that it's not a viable plan?


Right, so it may just be my cynical nature, but the players in my group don't seem to have much in the way of original plot ideas (barring, like, one player). As above, most of their goals revolve around becoming rulers and being all powerful whatnots. Any suggestions on steering them away and actually, you know, having them RP stuff beyond "I want to be the very best"?


Ok so the campaign I've planned is of the "Sandbox with plot rails scattered about" in that the PCs have free reign to wander about and do things but that there will be little plot hooks scattered about. I feel that I've fleshed out enough of the world where they'll be to allow for plenty of freedom and stuff, but what do I do if the players are all "Hey let's go here" and I've nothing planned for that section of the world?

1. The way you handle dopplegangers will depend on the way you handle the game in-general, and how down your players are for cooperating.
The normal doppleganger process is:
a.) isolate one of the PC's and kill them
b.) isolate another member of the party, kill them, and run off with their stuff
c.) if that isn't happening, wait for the party to get attacked by some other monsters, backstab someone, and escape.

Usually this is done with secret side conversations, and asking the player to act like everything is normal until the time when they attack (which is normally pretty soon afterwards).
Also, usually the players have the ability to prevent this from happening by either never letting anyone go-off alone, or by defeating the doppleganger when it makes its initial attack.

If you normally never use secret side conversations and note-passing in your game, it will be immediately suspicious to all the other players. So you need to regularly communicate with each player using notes or side conversations, just for mundane things like hearing a noise or seeing something no one else sees.

If you are planning on forcing somebody to become a doppleganger for story without angering them, they need to be down with it from the beginning, ask them before the game begins if they will be willing to do this. They also should have complete autonomy over how and when to betray the party. Pick a player who tends to be a good role player and won't mind serving the game overall rather than pursuing his/her own goals. Also, they should not be a spell caster (a doppleganger doesn't gain magical abilities when they kill someone and steal their face and memories). If they were a spell caster, it will be a dead giveaway when they suddenly refuse to cast any more spells.

If you want to spread paranoia, let them hear rumors of the faceless ones, and how they steal your memories so you don't even know you've been killed and replaced. Have them find a couple naked bodies hastily buried somewhere, and then soon after meet two people that look exactly like the bodies. One of the players should already be a doppleganger by this point, because once they suspect dopplegangers are about smart players will never let anyone go off alone.

Alternatively, tell all the players before the game starts that anyone could be a doppleganger and not know it. You won't know until a psychic order is given to activate you. If they get upset with you about this prospect, you know they aren't willing to go along with your game and ditch the idea. If they are excited about possibly being justified in backstabbing eachother, then continue with your plan, handing out notes and secret side conversations throughout the game to keep everyone paranoid.

Ultimately, being replaced by a doppleganger means your character has been killed and isn't gaining XP. So I would think this campaign won't be too long, or the reveal of the doppleganger will happen within one or two sessions so the player can start a new character that isn't too far behind the others in XP.

2.) Evil characters: you can't force your players to play in a way they don't want to. You are completely justified to have alignment restrictions and enforce a no-PvP rule, but writing "G" on the character sheet won't change how they play. I think what you really want is for them to act like a team so you don't need to waste time getting to the actual adventure, with the players refusing to go in the same direction because "my character wouldn't trust them". Ask them to create characters together and require that all the characters have pre-existing relationships as friends or associates who have already formed an adventuring party. They can decide the actual nature of the relationships and the circumstances under which their party was formed.

3.) goblins and kobolds: You don't need any reason or justification other than being the DM. It is your campaign setting, be firm about your choices. These are all adults you're playing with, they'll get over it.

4.) ruling the world, player goals: If you want to encourage other character goals, give them some ideas. Have a list of generalized suggestions for goals and motivations that make sense for your game setting. They don't need to be restricted to the list, but tell them that since this is a new custom setting, they may want to take a look and riff off of these things. Since they should be making their characters together, they might share some goals as well.

5.) Going off the map: Have random encounter tables prepared, both for wilderness and for towns/cities. Be ready to improvise. In general, however, anywhere you haven't prepared should not be close or easy to access for the players at the start. If they start heading somewhere you don't have prepared, you will probably know a session ahead of time and be able to get something ready. Throughout the campaign, continually prep new areas in between sessions based on where the players have gone and where you guess they might be going.