Wheel of Time Rand al'Thor

[TeslaJr]

I've been pondering the idea of a character based on Rand al'Thor, but honestly I don't have much. I was thinking some sort of Sorcerer/Tainted Sorcerer/Warblade. I chose Tainted Sorcerer because in the books Rand is driven insane due to taint on Saidin, so the Taint system fits the fluff. Also, it makes more sense than the Tainted Scholar. Warblade is an obvious choice for the martial part, because Rand is a master swordsman that uses a maneuver based style. Other than that, I'm drawing a blank.

[Psyren]

Wheel of Time casting is best modeled with psionics, and everybody has Overchannel.

Beyond that you really have to define how far into the series you're using Rand because his abilities change rather drastically between books. (Including the Taint thing.)

[TeslaJr]

I was thinking pre-cleansing. Psionics do make sense, but I'd like to keep the taint system. Is there any way to do that?

[Promises Kept]

Have you ever heard of the Subverted Psion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20051125a)?

[Dorian Gray]

I was thinking pre-cleansing. Psionics do make sense, but I'd like to keep the taint system. Is there any way to do that?

Adapt the Tainted Scholar PrC for psionics? Remember, the stuff characters do in WoT (or really in any book) rarely needs to be modeled as higher than 10th level or so- Gandalf is a 5th level magic-user (http://kuoi.com/~kamikaze/RPG/gandalf.txt). Rand teleports around, but that is probably his highest level spell. He blows up battlefields, but he did that only a few times, and never without serious external help- either a sa'agrael or the power in the eye of the world. Aside from that, most of what he does could be 3rd or 4th level spells, at most.

[TeslaJr]

Have you ever heard of the Subverted Psion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20051125a)?

Ooh, that looks nice.


Adapt the Tainted Scholar PrC for psionics? Remember, the stuff characters do in WoT (or really in any book) rarely needs to be modeled as higher than 10th level or so- Gandalf is a 5th level magic-user (http://kuoi.com/~kamikaze/RPG/gandalf.txt). Rand teleports around, but that is probably his highest level spell. He blows up battlefields, but he did that only a few times, and never without serious external help- either a sa'agrael or the power in the eye of the world. Aside from that, most of what he does could be 3rd or 4th level spells, at most.

Yeah, and that many levels let's me pick up Metaconcert (Rand does use circles quite a bit). The rest would probably be Warblade.

[Bluydee]

Probably should put those spoilers in a spoiler tab, since not everyone has read the wheel of time.


Can't forget he has one arm, meaning he basically has to grab still spell and go einhander.

[Promises Kept]

His teleporting really can't be modeled as anything less than a (refluffed) Teleportation Circle or Gate, given that he can move small armies. And, even without angreal, Balefire is probably better than a 5th-level spell/power. I'd call it at least 9th - it's a Ranged Touch that doesn't require Line of Effect No-Save-Just-Die that reverses time and prevents Resurrection. He's also said to be at least as powerful as anyone else in the setting, which means he has the raw power to match any other destructive feat managed by a channeler, up to and including *raising a mountain*, admittedly at the cost of his own life (Lews Therin, EotW Prologue). I'd call Rand and the Forsaken as easily Epic level, though admittedly multi-classed and with some severe limitations on what they can do. And Angreal/Sa'angreal just can't be ported to 3.5 without destroying any semblance of balance, given that middling angreal can straight-up double the power of a channeler.

[Dorian Gray]

His teleporting really can't be modeled as anything less than a (refluffed) Teleportation Circle or Gate, given that he can move small armies. And, even without angreal, Balefire is probably better than a 5th-level spell/power. I'd call it at least 9th - it's a Ranged Touch that doesn't require Line of Effect No-Save-Just-Die that reverses time and prevents Resurrection. He's also said to be at least as powerful as anyone else in the setting, which means he has the raw power to match any other destructive feat managed by a channeler, up to and including *raising a mountain*, admittedly at the cost of his own life (Lews Therin, EotW Prologue). I'd call Rand and the Forsaken as easily Epic level, though admittedly multi-classed and with some severe limitations on what they can do. And Angreal/Sa'angreal just can't be ported to 3.5 without destroying any semblance of balance, given that middling angreal can straight-up double the power of a channeler.

Well, that's part of the problem with porting works of literature to D&D. Often, characters from literature have the annoying habit of not having their abilities correspond exactly to D&D classes. Take Spiderman, for example. He can climb walls, has above average strength, dexterity, and constitution, and can swing on webs- all of that could just be a buffed-up sorcerer/swordsage with that one CA feat that lets you swing from vines. But wait! Spiderman's spidy sense is a sixth sense that lets him react to danger before it happens to him! That's almost exactly the description of the spell Forsight, a 9th level spell. Does that mean that Spiderman is a 17th level wizard or an 18th level sorcerer? Of course not.

In the same way, Rand typically just throws fire around or even fights hand-to-hand with a sword. Yes, he can open gateways- but so can most channelers (most of the male channelers do so regularly). Does that mean that every Asha'man is a 17th level wizard? Again, no. It just means that in that particular setting, that particular act of magic is easier.

[Psyren]

His teleporting really can't be modeled as anything less than a (refluffed) Teleportation Circle or Gate, given that he can move small armies.

You're forgetting Wormhole, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html) which is a psionic power and works pretty much like WoT teleportation does.

[Tvtyrant]

Either Psionics or use the Arcanist from Netheril: Empire of Magic. If anyone can cast 10-12 level spells it is Rand, and they are even references to weaving in there.

[Shining Wrath]

Adapt the Tainted Scholar PrC for psionics? Remember, the stuff characters do in WoT (or really in any book) rarely needs to be modeled as higher than 10th level or so- Gandalf is a 5th level magic-user (http://kuoi.com/~kamikaze/RPG/gandalf.txt). Rand teleports around, but that is probably his highest level spell. He blows up battlefields, but he did that only a few times, and never without serious external help- either a sa'agrael or the power in the eye of the world. Aside from that, most of what he does could be 3rd or 4th level spells, at most.

About Gandalf ...
1) Dwarves could use magic, routinely, so much so that they made magical children's toys which show up at the Long-Awaited Party
2) A single balrog destroyed their mightiest kingdom, including slaying a king so like to their forefather that they named him Durin VI
3) Gandalf defeated the balrog in single combat

Gandalf's probably closer to 25th than 5th.

[Arbane]

I know there was a Wheel of Time d20 game, but I don't know how good it was.

[Dorian Gray]

About Gandalf ...
1) Dwarves could use magic, routinely, so much so that they made magical children's toys which show up at the Long-Awaited Party
2) A single balrog destroyed their mightiest kingdom, including slaying a king so like to their forefather that they named him Durin VI
3) Gandalf defeated the balrog in single combat

Gandalf's probably closer to 25th than 5th.

Did you read the article? Nothing that Gandalf (or any other character) does couldn't be explained in low levels. Kill a kingdom of dwarves? Sure, that's easy enough if your AC is high enough so that they can't hit you without a natural 20, and you have DR/Something and fast healing. The magic children's toys are said to be magic, but that could just mean that they were made with the magecraft spell- same with the magic weapons, whose special abilities tended to be along the lines of "It stays sharp and glows". Now, what you said is still somewhat valid, but...

...Gandalf was forced to climb a tree to get away from a pack of worgs and goblins, and his chosen method of self-defense was to throw pinecones. I mean, come on. Level 25? That's just laughable. A level 25 character in D&D is capable of leveling the entire forest. He can cause earthquakes, tear the most powerful of angels from the heavens to fight on his side, and even stop time. He can teleport! But he has to hide in trees from a bunch of wolves? There is no conceivable scenario where a level 25 character would ever have to fear from any threat in LotR.

[Barstro]

There is no conceivable scenario where a level 25 character would ever have to fear from any threat in LotR.

Out of spells.
Intentionally not casting spells to prevent a certain type of scrying
Out of components
Failed concentration checks


On topic
Hard to port WoT into D&D
D&D is about medieval times, but WoT is arguably in the future (spoke about Merc vs. Mosk, the wise sage Anlan (or something similar).

It isn't really so much that they are level 5 characters that can magically cast level 9 spells; some of those powerful spells were just poorly written to be level 3. Problem solved.

[One Step Two]

I know there was a Wheel of Time d20 game, but I don't know how good it was.

The d20 system based on 3.0 is passable.

Just a note: while it has rules for it, there is absolutely no way short of DM fiat to make Ta'veren work, which accounts for alot of malarkey.

Also one arguement about Gandalf is that he is a Solar in human form. In the same way Rand is also something with powers beyond human due to the fact he is a Hero that is bound to the Wheel.

[Dorian Gray]

Out of spells.
Intentionally not casting spells to prevent a certain type of scrying
Out of components
Failed concentration checks


At level 10, this might be relevant. But there is no reason why any of these would apply to a level 25 character, who has access to mind blank, spells that don't use components, and a concentration check that would regularly reach into the mid 40s. Hell, a level 25 wizard could just climb down the tree and kill all the wolves by hand (or sword, rather). And in any case, Gandalf wasn't out of spells, having cast perhaps 3 that entire day.

[arclance]

I know there was a Wheel of Time d20 game, but I don't know how good it was.
Looking at it again everything except Channelers, Gleeman, and Wolfbrothers were a ok representation of the books but could use some small lore adjustments here and there.

Channelers are variant sorcerers who can learn spells like wizards and have some additional spellcasting mechanics.

Gleeman are the bardic music ability (they did not even rename some of the options i.e. "inspire courage") stuffed into a 10 level prestige class

Wolfbrothers mostly need an update to reflect the new abilities they exhibit in books published after the d20 was printed (Wolf Dream needs rewritten).

Rand is Lv.18 in the d20 which was published in 2001.
He must have passed Lv. 20 before then end of the series.
The other main characters are ~Lv.15 as presented there.

Padan Fain is the worst thing in the book, he is 100% mundane no special abilities at all.
He could only be worse if he had levels of commoner.

@Barstro
The time period of The Wheel of Time is set in is at the dawn (first couple of years) of it's Industrial Revolution.
For the most part the tech level is late Medieval though
Ogier know how to build skyscrapers out of stone with the help of Channelers.

[Arbane]

There's a hilarious Dork Tower strip (which I can't find online, dangit,) where the gang are playing a Lord of the Rings game, and end up distinctly underwhelmed by Gandalf's by-the-books power. "I can talk to birds...and set pinecones on fire." "Oh! Gandalf fought the Balrog, so he must be powerful!" "How powerful is a Balrog?" "It must be pretty powerful, Gandalf had to fight it!"

...They end up using Gandalf as a battering ram. :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

Padan Fain is the worst thing in the book, he is 100% mundane no special abilities at all.
He could only be worse if he had levels of commoner.


Wasn't that released before several key reveals though? Fain is basically a templated monstrosity by the end.

[arclance]

Wasn't that released before several key reveals though? Fain is basically a templated monstrosity by the end.
The final Fain is definately a monster made of the fineset template cheese, AoE No Save Minnionmancy is no Joke.
He did display some of his abilities before the d20 was published in 2001, details spoilered below.
The Path of Daggers (Book 8) was released in 1998 and Winter's Heart (Book 9) was released in 2000.
The probably were too far in the writing process to consider Winter's Heart though.
Padan Fain first obtained the dagger in The Great Hunt (Book 2, 1990) and he recovered it in The Fires of Heaven (Book 5, 1993) (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/The_Fires_of_Heaven/Chapter_19).
He first demonstrated his Mashadar mist ability in A Crown of Swords (Book 7, 1996) (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/A_Crown_of_Swords/Chapter_35).
He used the daggers decay ability to kill things since he first grew a backbone (by scaring a Myrddraal) in The Great Hunt.
It apprently grew so strong he could kill Jumara (Worms) with a single scratch. (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Jumara_%28Shadowspawn%29)
I guess they did not want to make the "Dark Ones Hound", "Host of Mordeth", and "One With Machin Shin" templates or statup that OP Artifact Dagger.
He had all those templates at the end of Book 2 they just had HD dependant effects so he had not unlocked their full potential yet.They had most of his abilities to work off of already.
Yet he is a Midland Wanderer 16 (Generic PC 16) with a Standard Non-Masterwork Dagger.
He is the least accurate thing in the book and I can't stress that enough.