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Stellar_Magic
2014-07-28, 04:44 PM
After helping a bit with the Apex Predator thread, I decided I really should share some of the guidelines I've developed for myself for creating statistics for the various animals, monsters, and other creatures that can appear in a pathfinder game. Generally most of this is designed for animals (as they are the most common thing ever), though I will later detail some of my thoughts on other types of monsters and creatures.

These are meant as general guidelines, not completely hard and fast rules, and keep in mind I made these for my own use to create a more internally consistent set of rules for designing these creatures. It is meant for more a stimulation point of view, and may contradict most of the official stats for creatures... considering the official stats were designed for making a creature of X CR in most cases and often have alternate stats for creatures if you going looking around, this is to be expected.

Plus, people would be really disappointed if the Giant Squid was realistically depicted in the bestiary as something that has a tendency to die very soon after being dragged to the surface. They want a monster squid, not an animal that's food for sperm whales.

In my case I tend to work the other direction, determining CR only after the whole monster or animal is effectively finished.

Hit Die

For animals, I generally think that the Hit Die is best if its consistent with their weight. A massive creature should obviously have more hit points then a light weight creature... This does tend to increase the hit die of most domesticated mounts quite a bit, since the average horse is over 1,000 lbs. Some light weight animals are much more dangerous then their hit die would make you expect, these are usually ambush predators (leopards, dromaeosaur type dinosaurs, and cheetahs) and would have a higher CR then their Hit Die depicts.

Other creatures have their hit die relatively lower then the official stats. An Allosaur for example weighs about as much as draft horse according to modern scientific estimates, so they have similar amounts of hit die and hit points... Though I shouldn't need to tell you which is more dangerous.

Here are the weights and apparent hit die for animals up to 235 tons (not that anything in the real world breaks 200 tons, but sometimes its good to be thorough). Keep in mind that non-animal creatures will have a different rate of proportionality with dragons having fewer hit die to their average ton for example.



Average Weight
Hit Die
Examples


<40 lbs
1d8
Archaeopteryx, Armadillo, Badger, Barracuda, Cat, Common Bat, Compsognathus, Eagle, Electric Eel, Fox, Velociraptor


80 lbs
2d8
Alligator Gar, Cheetah, Giant Armadillo, Giant Moray Eel, Snow Leopard, Wolf


140 lbs
3d8
Cougar, Giant Octopus, Leopard


160 lbs
4d8
Bighorn Sheep, Blue Shark, Bull Shark, Common Dolphin, Deinonychus, Goat, Jaguar, Llama, Lion, Mule Deer, Nothosaurus, Sheep, Terror Bird, Tiger, Wild Boar


560 lbs
5d8
American Alligator, American Lion, Antelope, Black Bear, Dimetrodon, Elk, Giant Squid, Great Hammerhead, Grizzly Bear, Pony, Quetzalcoatlus, Siberian Tiger, Smilodon, Swordfish


1,100 lbs
6d8
Cave Bear, Colossal Squid, Dromornis, Irish Elk, Light Horse, Moose, Pachycephalosaurus, Polar Bear, Saltwater Crocodile, Tiger Shark


1,700 lbs
7d8
Allosaurus, American Bison, Camel, Giraffe, Great White Shark (average), Heavy Horse, Short-faced Bear


2,600 lbs
8d8
Aurochs, Greenland Shark, Narwhal, Titanoboa


3,500 lbs
9d8
Megalania


4,800 lbs
10d8
Archelon, Elasmosaurus


6,000 lbs
11d8
Asian Elephant, Parasaurolophus, Styracosaurus


7,600 lbs
12d8
Dunkleosteus, Great White Shark (record), Iguanadon


9,200 lbs
13d8
Mastodon, Orca, Stegosaurus


12,000 lbs
14d8
African Bush Elephant, Ankylosurus, Wolly Mammoth


14,000 lbs
15d8
Steppe Mammoth, Tylosaurus, Tyrannosaurus


17,000 lbs
16d8
Sarcosuchus


21,000 lbs
17d8
Giganotosaurus


26,000 lbs
18d8
Diplodocus, Triceratops


32,000 lbs
19d8
Spinosaurus


38,000 lbs
20d8
Apatosaurus, Shantungosaurus


48,000 lbs
21d8
Kronosaurus, Whale Shark


56,000 lbs
22d8
Brachiosaurus, Humpback Whale


68,000 lbs
23d8
Sperm Whale


81,000 lbs
24d8



95,000 lbs
25d8
Pliosaurus funkei 'Predator X',


110,000 lbs
26d8
Megalodon (consensus), Right Whale


130,000 lbs
27d8



140,000 lbs
28d8



160,000 lbs
29d8



180,000 lbs
30d8



200,000 lbs
31d8



230,000 lbs
32d8
Blue Whale, Megalodon (highest estimate)


250,000 lbs
33d8



270,000 lbs
34d8
Amphicoelias


300,000 lbs
35d8



320,000 lbs
36d8



350,000 lbs
37d8



390,000 lbs
38d8
Blue Whate (record)


430,000 lbs
39d8



470,000 lbs
40d8




Size

Size, for most creatures, is pretty straight forward, simply find their length and compare it to the size and reach table you can find online and determine size category by the length. Note, I said its for most creatures. Using this method for bipedal creatures tends to result in rather wonky results. If the creature is a biped like a theropod dinosaur, terror bird, or primate it works better to determine size category based on the height of the creature.

This does tend to give much 'smaller' results for most dinosaurs then you'd expect, with only the very largest theropods getting the huge size category. However, their reach is pretty long, and since the majority of their body length is made up of tail... a smaller fighting space makes sense.

Ability Scores

Now that you've got a nominal hit die and size, next you need the ability scores. These involve quite a bit of calculation. Normally the total number of attribute points should be roughly around 65 + 1 per 4 hit die, which will give you a budget for assigning the number of attribute points for the mental scores, while the physical attributes can be determined by calculation, mental attributes are not so easily determined.

Okay, most important for creatures is strength. Its also the easiest to determine as there tends to be a rough correlation between body weight, carrying capacity, and strength. To calculate a strength score based on body weight...

Take the square root of the creatures weight in pounds and divide it by the carrying capacity multipler for a creature it's size and build. So... say you want to make stats for the largest Great White Shark recorded.

The square root of this 7,300 lb shark is 85.44... At 20 ft, its a huge creature so the carrying capacity multiplier is x4. 85.44/4 gives us a strength score of 21. This seems perfect for a powerful shark like the great white.

Next, we have to find the constitution score. Constitution reflects both the strength of a creature and its ability to handle disease, as a result its better to make it so that the constitution takes into account the number of hit die for the animal. My method to calculate an animals the constitution score is as follows.

Ten time the square root of (Animal weight/Average weight of hit die) + Special Size Modifier

So... the average weight of a 12 HD creature is 7,600 lbs... So (7,300 lbs\7,600) = 0.9605... The square root is 0.98 * 10 = 9.8 + 2 from huge size. So the total would be 12 Con, which seems kind of low, but not unreasonably so.

Next we need to find Dex. To do this, you need to go back to the Space, Reach, & Threatened area table as it includes the average weight for each size category. Generally an animal which weighs less then normal for its size category will have a higher dex score. Therefore to find the Dex...

10*Square Root of (Average Weight of Size Category/Animal Weight). In this case, the 7,300 lb Great White Shark is huge, which has an Average Weight of 18,000 lb.

18,000/7,300 = 2.465... The square root is 1.57... * 10 is 15.7, rounded up to 16. So the physical attributes of the largest Great White ever recorded is...

Str 21, Dex 16, Con 12...

Mental scores are determined mostly by behavior. Animals are always 1-2 int, and something like the Great White shark is certainly 1 Int. As a 12 HD animal, the total number of attribute points it should have would be around 68 (65 + 3 from HD).

68 - (21 + 16 + 12 + 1) = 18... so an average of 9 for Cha and Wis. As this is a solitary shark, I'd consider Cha a dump stat, so... Wis 10, Cha 8. Total Attribute scores...

Str 21, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 1, Wis 10, Cha 8

Now that you have the Hit Die and ability scores, most of the rest of the creation process will flow quite easily as the Hit Die determines so much of the animal, the attributes another bunch...

I'll post more on Natural Attacks, Natural Armor, and Special Abilities later.

Ashtagon
2014-07-30, 07:04 AM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?313164-Making-prehistoric-animals

I tried something similar once before, but got stuck on the enormity of the task. I did, however, reverse-engineer a useable formula for determining HD from animal weight.

Herbivore HD = (((weight in lb) x 1.024) ^ 1/3) * 0.25
Carnivore HD = herbivore HD x 2

(The 1.024 modifier is to match in the weight with the size modifier limits)

Stellar_Magic
2014-07-30, 02:23 PM
Interesting... I'll do some math and see what I come up with based on those values. I will admit that I'm not exactly sure about the doubling Hit Die for carnivores... as some large herbivores are pretty tough animals.

Using your calculations...

Beagle - 22.5 lb so 1 HD
Horse, Light - 1,025 lb so 2 HD (5 HD if the same progression as a predator)
Horse, Heavy - 1,850 lb so 3 HD (6 HD if the same progression as a predator)
Tylosaurus - 14,000 lb so 12 HD
Megalodon - 106,000 lb so 23 HD
Blue Whale - 380,000 lb (record) so 18 HD (36 HD if the same progression as a predator)

Wow... I'm only +/- 2 HD at the largest scale if you go with the predatory Hit Die progression. So we've basically ended up with basically the same values, just coming from very different directions.

I suppose we could work the calculation in the reverse to find the average weight per Hit Die, but since we're only off by 2 HD at the higher end, I wouldn't bother.

I will say that the whole average weight per size category can rapidly give you a headache, especially when you're dealing with snakes and other serpentine creatures. A good example is Tylosaurus. We're talking about a mosasaur that averages around 35 feet long, and weighs 7 tons, ergo gargantuan (low end gargantuan but still gargantuan).

The average weight of a gargantuan animal is... 70.5 tons, over ten times that of the Tylosaurus. As a result, the Tylosaurus is considered an extremely dexterous creature for its size with a 32 dex. I'm considering giving dex a size category penalty to my calculations, and a size bonus to strength... but still, this is only going to reduce it to maybe a 26 dex.

The thing is, it works really well with the stats my system spat out as it is, and really made it quite a bit of a monster. Something that would make Pliosaurs a bit hesitant to get in a fight with.

Tylosaurus CR 9

XP 6,400
N gargantuan animal
Init +11; Senses blindsense 30 ft., low-light vision, keen scent; Perception +14

DEFENSE

AC 18, 17 touch, 7 flat footed (+11 dex, +1 natural, -4 size)
hp 112 (15d8+45)
Fort +13, Ref +20, Will +2

OFFENSE

Speed swim 30 ft.
Melee bite +18 (3d8+4 plus 1d6 bleed and grab)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks fast swallow, power attack with vital strike (bite +14, 9d8+12 plus 1d6 bleed and grab), swallow whole (2d8+2, AC 10, hp 11)

TACTICS

During Combat a hungry Tylosaurus will attack one target and attempt to kill or swallow its prey whole. It will not continue to fight unless attacked, as the goal of its attack was to satisfy its hunger. An angry Tylosaurus will fight viciously but will not attempt to swallow its foes; instead its focus will be on killing them outright.
Morale normally a Tylosaurus will flee when reduced to half its hit-points, unless it has been trained for warfare (see Handle Animal skill).

STATISTICS

Str 15, Dex 32, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 4, Cha 3
Base Atk +11; CMB +17 (+21 to grapple); CMD 38
Feats Great Fortitude, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Natural Attack (bite), Improved Vital Strike, Power Attack, Toughness, Vital Strike, Weapon Finesse
Skills Perception +14, Swim +16; Racial Modifiers +8 perception; +8 swim
SQ hold breath, powerful bite

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Hold Breath (Ex)
A Tylosaurus can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 6 times its Constitution score before it risks drowning.
Keen Scent (Ex)
A Tylosaurus can notice other creatures by scent in a 180-foot radius underwater and can detect blood in the water at ranges of up to a mile.
Powerful Bite (Ex)
A Tylosaurus applies 2 times its strength modifier to bite damage.
Swallow Whole (Ex)
When a Tylosaurus has an opponent grappled in its mouth (see Grab), it can attempt a new combat maneuver check as a free action (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey, and the opponent takes bludgeoning damage (2d8+2). A swallowed creature can escape by doing 11 points of damage to the inside of the Tylosaurus with a light slashing or piercing weapon (AC 10). A creature that escapes the pin while swallowed whole emerges from the Tylosaurus stomach, not its throat, where it may be grabbed and pinned again.

ECOLOGY

Environment any ocean
Organization solitary, pair, or pack (3-6)
Treasure none

Ashtagon
2014-07-30, 02:36 PM
For ability scores, I know the d20 Modern RPG had guidelines, which I *think* were repeated from the 3.0e Monster Manual. I had been planning on using those as the baseline when generating ability scores, then modify them based on the physical characteristics of the creature itself.

Stellar_Magic
2014-07-30, 04:37 PM
I see the guidelines (I have a PDF of the D20 modern core rules), they're... well, okay. I disagree with sticking to those rules though, as the idea of a creature becoming more disease resistant with size (Con increases) doesn't really seem to make sense to me, and not all small sized creatures are more dexterous then large size creatures either. Considering Hitpoint increases coming from hit die, large con increases are going to be superflous in many cases and won't reflect the difference between a thin, lithe, creature and a heavily built one.

Admittedly what I've come up with is also a baseline, as there are going to be examples of creatures which should have ability scores well outside what I've suggested from calculations. But at the same time, the D20 Modern suggested numbers have problems with them as well.

One that immediately jumps to mind is the three-toed sloth. There is no way they have positive dex modifier, right?

Well my current methodology gives a Sloth a dex of 7. Which seems reasonable for the critter instead of the suggested 18-19 for a tiny sized creature that D20 modern gives.

With the mosasaur example, 32 is still just about completely ridiculous. I'll probably slash the dex score and bring the mental scores up to more sensible levels (10 Wis and 8 Cha) since right now the scores make the thing pretty dumb.

Ashtagon
2014-07-31, 04:27 AM
Size also represents that a disease needs to infect a larger bulk of creature to have a meaningful impact. And RAW has already established that larger creatures have more powerful poison attacks, so their Fort saves based on size need to rise to keep balanced against that.

wrt Dexterity, I have severe issues with really huge creatures having average Dex scores consistently above Olympic-grade athletes. They don't even have opposable thumbs!

Most importantly, since those are the guidelines used in designing all the Monster Manual critters, it makes sense to carry on using those guidelines, in order to keep new critters scaled appropriately with established norms.

Stellar_Magic
2014-07-31, 11:24 AM
Well everything is relative... Olympic Weight lifters regularly manage 500 lb+ in mens and over 400 lb+ in womens for the clean and jerk. Considering a heavy load is defined as the heaviest amount a person can lift over their head, I'd say those lift records are consistent with maximum load in the carrying capacity rules.

This gives Olympic weight lifters around 22 Str... If you apply that to all scores, an Olympic air rifle competitor would probably have a 22 Dex, and a lot of Olympians will have really high Con scores for endurance training. To get those scores in Pathfinder requires a level eight character (18 + 2 racial + 2 from leveling).

Therefore, human ability scores range from 3-22, and average at 10.

As for the Con increases, remember Fort saving throws increase as well by hit die so a heavier animal is already getting a bonus from its bulk if you're using weight to determine Hit Die.

There are other methods for coming up with Strength scores, ranging from bite force to other statistics. Using that method I'm coming up with a 22 Str for the Great White Shark (assuming the powerful bite x2 Str mod special ability). My method is giving me 21 Str based on the world record (20 ft.) Great White Shark. I'm also getting a 14 Dex, and 12 Con for such an animal.

The only time my method is really throwing up really off the wall numbers is when you try to apply it to serpentine creatures: Snakes, Mosasaurs, Eels, and so forth. I'm going to have to think of some way to deal with them without getting totally insane numbers. Still... lets see how well it performs outside the realm of Eels, Snakes, and Mosasaurs.

Cephalopods
Colossal Squid (largest specimen) - 1,091 lb - 14 ft. - Str 17, Dex 14, Con 11
Giant Squid (largest estimates) - 606 lb - 16 ft. (excluding tentacles) - Str 12, Dex 19, Con 11

Okay... we might have a problem. Using the total length (with tentacles) of the Giant Squid produces totally insane results, at 43 feet it'd be in a size category where 70 tons is the average, and yet it only weighs 600 lbs. Maybe just going with the mantle length makes sense for these animals.

Avians
Peregrine Falcon (by body length) - 0.73-3.307 lb - 13-23 inches - Str 3, Dex 15, Con 2, 1 hp
Red-tailed Hawk (by body length) - 1.52-3.53 lb - 18-26 inches - Str 2, Dex 37*, Con 3, 1 hp
Northern Royal Albatross (by body length) - 14-18 lb - 45 inches - Str 5, Dex 16, Con 6, 2 hp

It seems to work okay for birds by body length... Though the Red-tailed Hawk is acting anomalous. For creatures that sit close to the border between size categories, this seems to be a problem. If I calculated its dex as though it were a tiny sized animal (instead of small), it'd get a more sensible 13.

I wonder... If I could find a size to weight ratio calculation I could use to throw out using the size categories average weight and probably have a much better set of numbers to go by or maybe find some ratio between length/height and weight that could give me dex.

Con is still problematic... Though I don't really have a problem with a -4 con modifier on a 2 lb bird. It is making these animals extremely vulnerable to damage, and while I think that's realistic... there's no way familiars would work with these stats without dying every other encounter.

I'm open to suggestions.

Stellar_Magic
2014-07-31, 04:09 PM
I think I may have figured it out... Huzzah!

Part of the problem I think is I really didn't calibrate the numbers relative to what 10 Str/Dex/Con represent... the average human being.

New calculation for dex and con for all vertebrates. I say vertebrates, because most everything I try tends to be totally derailed by creatures like the Giant Squid (46 ft. long but weighing only 606 lbs!). So this is vertebrates only, I'll try and figure out a functional one for invertebrates some other time.

Human lengths = Total length in inches divided by 66.7 (which is the average human length)
Human weights = Total weight in pounds divided by 137 (which is the average human weight)
Human speed = 15 mph (average human running speed)

Base Str = square root of the Creature's weight / size categories's carrying capacity modifier.
Base Dex = 10 * (square root of (Human lengths3/Human weights) + square root of (Top speed/Human speed))/2
Base Con = 10 * square root of (Human weights/Human lengths3)

These base values are then modified based on the size category.

Medium or smaller = No modifiers
Large = +4 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con
Huge = +8 Str, -4 Dex, +8 Con
Gargantuan = +12 Str, -6 Dex, +12 Con
Colossal = +16 Str, -8 Dex, +16 Con

Tyrannosaurus Rex - 40 ft. - 15,000 lbs - 18 mph - Base Str 15, Dex 15, Con 5
With modifiers... Str 27, Dex 9, Con 17, 112 hp (15d8+45)

Okay, that actually doesn't look so bad. One thing I have noted with this system is birds and theropod dinosaurs tend to get low Con scores, which makes sense for their avian builds. If I'm honest, I'm still not happy with the numbers. Still, lets look at some other examples and see how well it's working out.

Allosaurus - 28 ft. - 3,300 lbs - 22 mph - Base Str 14, Dex 18, Con 4
With modifiers... Str 22, Dex 14, Con 16, 67 hp (9d8+27)

Blue Whale - 98 ft. - 400,000 lbs - 31 mph - Base Str 26, Dex 14, Con 7
With modifiers... Str 42, Dex 6, Con 23, 399 hp (38d8+228)

Diplodocus - 108 ft. - 32,000 lbs - 5 mph - Base Str 7, Dex 31, Con 2
With modifiers... Str 23, Dex 23, Con 18, 161 hp (19d8+76)

Peregrine Falcon - 23 inches - 3.307 lbs - 200 mph - Str 4, Dex 19, Con 8, 3 hp (1d8-1)

Three-toed sloth - 18 inches - 10 lbs - 0.15 mph - Str 4, Dex 2, Con 19, 8 hp (1d8+4)

Woolly Rhino - 12.5 ft. - 7,000 lbs - 30 mph - Base Str 28, Dex 9, Con 21
With modifiers... Str 32, Dex 7, Con 25, 138 hp (12d8+84)

I keep finding the lower paleontological mass estimates tend to make for some really lightly built creatures, and the Diplodocus is downright ridiculous with it's total length and weight being what scientists estimate now. I suppose the 23 Dex is basically representative of the ability of the animal to bat threats aside with its tail or something. Thus far that seems to be the single most glaring anomaly... Perhaps I should include a modifier for quadrupeds for dexterity or something.

Oh, duh! I could just use speed! I suddenly feel stupid. I'll do that test later... That'd certainly stop us from suffering from a dexterous Diplodocus.

Ashtagon
2014-08-01, 12:13 AM
I think that as long a you tie things to a function that keys off the size category table thresholds for length/weight, you'll get anomalies wherever a creature is close to the threshold of each size category jump.

I rejected speed as a serious primary data source, because for the vast majority of creatures, this is unknown. Even for modern-day cretures, this tends to be poorly documented.

Stellar_Magic
2014-08-01, 04:14 PM
I can understand that decision, but then again when we're doing anything prehistoric we tend to have to use estimates and guesstimates a lot. Plus, we're going to need to assign a movement speed at some point, and that will require using some estimate for a creature's speed.

Admittedly one of the first stumbling blocks I found as I started putting together a Dex determined by speed rule is that going by a straight linear ratio (as human speeds actually tend to follow if you take a 22 Dex for 28 mph running Mr. Bolt and a 10 Dex average joe managing 12-13 mph) is that when applied to creatures (even if you restrict yourself to the highest horizontal speed on birds) can produce thing like a 60 Dex Golden Eagle.

So I went back to my standby measure for incurring a curve... Lets use square roots and squares. XD

This is the chart results.



Base Dex Score
Move Speed
Top Speed (Man)
Top Speed (Other)
Examples


30
250 ft.
-
114.3 mph
-


29
240 ft.
-
106.8 mph
Needle-tailed Swift


28
220 ft.
-
99.6 mph
Eurasian Hobby


27
200 ft.
-
92.6 mph
Frigatebird


26
190 ft.
-
85.9 mph
-


25
180 ft.
-
79.4 mph
Black Marlin


24
160 ft.
-
73.2 mph
Cheetah


23
150 ft.
-
67.2 mph
Peregrine Falcon, Sailfish


22
140 ft.
27.9 mph
61.5 mph
Anna's Hummingbird, Free-Tailed Bat, Mako Shark, Ostrich, Swordfish


21
120 ft.
26.7 mph
56.0 mph
Pronghorn, Springbok


20
110 ft.
25.4 mph
50.8 mph
Blackbuck, Lion, Wildebeast


19
100 ft.
24.1 mph
45.8 mph
African Wild Dog, Greyhound, Horse, Jackrabbit, Kangaroo, Onager, Thompson's Gazelle


18
90 ft.
22.9 mph
41.1 mph
Common Dolphin, Coyote, Tiger, Zebra


17
80 ft.
21.6 mph
36.7 mph
Hyena


16
70 ft.
20.3 mph
32.5 mph
-


15
60 ft.
19.1 mph
28.6 mph
Domestic Cat


14
50 ft.
17.8 mph
24.9 mph
Dilophosaurus, Bearded Dragon, Elephant, Velociraptor


13
50 ft.
16.5 mph
21.5 mph
Allosaurus, Leatherback Sea Turtle, Six-lined Racerunner, Grizzly Bear


12
40 ft.
15.2 mph
18.3 mph
Polar Bear, Roadrunner, Tyrannosaurus Rex


11
30 ft.
14.0 mph
15.4 mph
Black Mamba


10
30 ft.
12.7 mph
12.7 mph
Average Human


9
20 ft.
11.4 mph
10.3 mph
Pig


8
20 ft.
10.2 mph
8.1 mph
-


7
15 ft.
8.9 mph
6.2 mph
-


6
10 ft.
7.6 mph
4.6 mph
Sauropods (estimate)


5
10 ft.
6.4 mph
3.2 mph
-


4
5 ft.
5.1 mph
2.0 mph
-


3
5 ft.
3.8 mph
1.1 mph
-


2
5 ft.
-
0.5 mph
-


1
5 ft.
-
0.1 mph
Three-toed Sloth



The move speeds are derived from the animal speeds listed, and do not include such factors as 'Run' (multiply the move speed by 0.8 if you add the Run feat to the creature list to account for this) nor does it account for creatures that are only able to move at that top speed in sprints or bursts (alligators and so forth) in which case you should adjust the stats downward.

Anyway... with these new changes, lets go back to my last bunch of examples and find the base scores...

Tyrannosaurus Rex - Str 15, Dex 12, Con 5
Modified Scores: Str 27, Dex 6, Con 17

The new system for Dex scores seems to make the penalty for size on Dex to severe for the size categories. You know what, I'm just going to drop the dex penalty for now... New modifiers are

Large - +4 Str, +4 Con
Huge - +8 Str, +8 Con
Gargantuan - +12 Str, +12 Con
Colossal - +16 Str, +16 Con

The results...

Allosaurus
Final Scores: Str 22, Dex 13, Con 12, 49 hp (9d8+9)

Blue Whale
Final Scores: Str 42, Dex 15, Con 23, 399 hp (38d8+228)

Diplodocus
Final Scores: Str 23, Dex 6, Con 18, 161 hp (19d8+76)

Peregrine Falcon
Final Scores: Str 4, Dex 23, Con 8, 3 hp (1d8-1)

Three-toed Sloth
Final Scores: Str 4, Dex 1, Con 19, 8 hp (1d8+4)

Tyrannosaurus Rex
Final Scores: Str 27, Dex 12, Con 17, hp 112 (15d8+45)

Woolly Rhino
Final Scores: Str 28, Dex 15, Con 21, hp 138 (12d8+84)

Looks good to me.