Help with a RAW Duskblade.

[ABEW19043]

Alright, so pretty soon, I'm going to be starting a new campaign, and the DM I'm playing under is a notorious powergamer. He has a lot of love for story and is really good with roleplaying, but minmaxing is where his heart lies.

He stated ahead of time that he was okay with certain levels of cheese in this campaign, so long as it's nothing akin to Pun Pun or the D2 Crusader. He's allowing this knowing ahead of time that his campaign will be quite difficult.

The rules for character creation are as follows: (I'm copying and pasting, so the formatting might be a bit weird)



Everyone has survival skill.

Ignore alignments.

Books allowable: Phb 1 and 2, The complete series (except complete psionics), cityscape, dungeonscape, tome of magic, frostburn, sandstorm, races of destiny, races of stone, dungeon master’s guide, and miniatures handbook. You can pull anything from those, so long as it’s not a class with access to 9th level spells.

Spells: No divination spells that do not give mechanical bonuses exist. True strike would be a thing, locate object does not. The only exception is the paladin’s detect evil or other class abilities which provide detections.
Detection abilities (such as a paladin’s detect evil) are lessened, will be explained later

With this in mind, I've decided to play a Duskblade. No laptops or internet are allowed at the table, and turns are timed (if you take more than 30 seconds before you decide what to do (rolling and the like not included) you lose your turn), so I don't want to play something like a binder which is overcomplicated, or a Factotum which would die out quickly (There are a lot of other starvation and thirst rules, that are CON based). I also want something with a bit of flavor so that I won't get bored to tears playing. (If things go right, this character could last for up to a year or longer in a once a week 6-8 hour session. He'll hopefully see a lot of play bar death, so I want to make sure I'm having fun).

So, with the books listed and RAW in effect in mind, what suggestions can you guys give? I've checked out a few online Duskblade guides/handbooks, and I'm not asking for you to build me a character from scratch.. I'd just like to see what things I'm overlooking that some of the more knowledgeable players would catch.

[ABEW19043]

...Shameless self-bump.

[Snowbluff]

What level are you?

You can't go wrong with arcane strike, but watch out for how long it takes to roll the extra d4s. Power Attack, Knowledge Devotion, and Travel Devotion are considered standard for DB.

[Turok124]

Getting chilling touch on your spell list might give the dm something to think about.

[TiaC]

Sandshaper is nice for your spell list.

[Vhaidara]

Well, duskblade is pretty straight forward. IIRC, the standard combo is Shocking Grasp or Vampiric Touch, then nova pump with Arcane Strike.

Also, I would like to point out that Binder wouldn't really be a problem. You only have a handful of abilities (no more than 3 actives per vestige, I think) at a time. Most of your decision making is out of combat (binding your vestiges)

[ABEW19043]

What level are you?

You can't go wrong with arcane strike, but watch out for how long it takes to roll the extra d4s. Power Attack, Knowledge Devotion, and Travel Devotion are considered standard for DB.

Starting off at level one, I'm fairly sure. The time taken to roll is perfectly fine, I just have to be decisive about what I'm doing within the time limit, as opposed to sitting there deciding what spells to use or the such (We've had problems with this in the past)


Sandshaper is nice for your spell list.

They have eventual access to a 9th level spell, so it's a no-go


Well, duskblade is pretty straight forward. IIRC, the standard combo is Shocking Grasp or Vampiric Touch, then nova pump with Arcane Strike.

Also, I would like to point out that Binder wouldn't really be a problem. You only have a handful of abilities (no more than 3 actives per vestige, I think) at a time. Most of your decision making is out of combat (binding your vestiges)

I have literally zero idea what I'm doing with a Binder, and that's another part of the reason I'm not intending to play one. I know the class is straightforward, I was just wondering if somebody had an idea for some cheese due to using a RAW system where the DM says to ignore alignments, mainly =P.


Getting chilling touch on your spell list might give the dm something to think about.

That's definitely a spell I'll keep in mind here =P

[heavyfuel]

Chilling touch is an OK spell for the Duskblade. It's an average of 10.5 Dex damage, which is nice. But if your DM is the optimizer you claim he is, you can bet your bottom on the fact that most of his enemies will be immune or at least resistant to ability damage and/or SR.

What you want my man, is Wraith Strike. This is THE spell for the Duskblade. Learn it, use it (with 2handed Power attack), and love it.

[erok0809]

They have eventual access to a 9th level spell, so it's a no-go

They do, but only if you have a 9th level spell slot with which to cast it, assuming you don't use a build that gives you 9th level spell slots. You would "know" the spell, but have no way of using it. I would ask your DM before shutting down the idea, since although you "know" the spell, you can't use it, and thus you might as well not have it at all. Check with your DM.

[Eldaran]

Why have three people mentioned Chilling Touch? Duskblades have Chill Touch on their list, so nothing to change there, but I assume you're talking about Shivering Touch which is a totally different spell.

[A_S]

Piggy Knowles posted a very nice Duskblade build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286800-Merry-Gishmas!-19-BAB-9th-level-spells-and-full-attack-channeling) designed around Nar Demonbinder spellcasting a while back. His version invests in a bit of light cheese to get its hands on 9th level spells, but since 9ths are banned in your campaign anyway, you can just...not include those parts. *edit* Oh, in case it wasn't clear, the reason I mention this build in particular is that Nar Demonbinder gets 8th level spellcasting, but not 9th, sneaking in under your campaign's ban.

More generally, strong Duskblade builds are generally going to include:
-13 levels of Duskblade
-Arcane Strike
-Ideally, some way of getting some more spells to cast/channel than the very limited Duskblade selection

[Turok124]

Why have three people mentioned Chilling Touch? Duskblades have Chill Touch on their list, so nothing to change there, but I assume you're talking about Shivering Touch which is a totally different spell.

*embarrassed*
Yeah...that one. :p

[ABEW19043]

Piggy Knowles posted a very nice Duskblade build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286800-Merry-Gishmas!-19-BAB-9th-level-spells-and-full-attack-channeling) designed around Nar Demonbinder spellcasting a while back. His version invests in a bit of light cheese to get its hands on 9th level spells, but since 9ths are banned in your campaign anyway, you can just...not include those parts. *edit* Oh, in case it wasn't clear, the reason I mention this build in particular is that Nar Demonbinder gets 8th level spellcasting, but not 9th, sneaking in under your campaign's ban.

More generally, strong Duskblade builds are generally going to include:
-13 levels of Duskblade
-Arcane Strike
-Ideally, some way of getting some more spells to cast/channel than the very limited Duskblade selection

I'd actually be pretty likely to use that build, but I don't think I have access to the Nar Demonbinder, as it's from Unapproachable East (I think). However, I'll definitely be picking up Arcane Strike.


Chilling touch is an OK spell for the Duskblade. It's an average of 10.5 Dex damage, which is nice. But if your DM is the optimizer you claim he is, you can bet your bottom on the fact that most of his enemies will be immune or at least resistant to ability damage and/or SR.

What you want my man, is Wraith Strike. This is THE spell for the Duskblade. Learn it, use it (with 2handed Power attack), and love it.

I definitely see where that could be extremely helpful. I'm going to have to find a way to get it.

[heavyfuel]

I definitely see where that could be extremely helpful. I'm going to have to find a way to get it.

Just an FYI, I meant Shivering Touch and not Chilling Touch. But still, you can get Wraithstrike with Extra Spell if your DM allows you to access other spell lists.

[ABEW19043]

Just an FYI, I meant Shivering Touch and not Chilling Touch. But still, you can get Wraithstrike with Extra Spell if your DM allows you to access other spell lists.

Well, it's RAW, and it never specifically says your spell list ^_^. He's making it RAW for a reason, no interpretations. And I meant Wraithstrike for trying tog get it, I kind of figured you guys meant Shivering Touch after I saw what Chilling Touch actually did

[heavyfuel]

Well, it's RAW, and it never specifically says your spell list ^_^. He's making it RAW for a reason, no interpretations. And I meant Wraithstrike for trying tog get it, I kind of figured you guys meant Shivering Touch after I saw what Chilling Touch actually did

Yeah.that's what I get for being on the board at 2am hahaha.

Anyways... The only issue with Wraith Strike is that it only becomes available at lv 9, which is also the same lv you qualify for Arcane Strike. This can be problematic. Personally, I'd go for Wraithstrike because, at best, AS will give +3 attack and a 7.5 average damage (3d4) if you sacrifice a 3rd lv spell. Wraithstrike on the other hand, will effectively give you more to hit than +3 and after converting attack into 2H Power Attack your damage will be similar to, if not greater than with Arcane Strike, it also costs you only a 2nd lv slot, unlike our Arcane Strike example that cost you a 3rd lv slot.

[Magma Armor0]

Yeah.that's what I get for being on the board at 2am hahaha.

Anyways... The only issue with Wraith Strike is that it only becomes available at lv 9, which is also the same lv you qualify for Arcane Strike. This can be problematic. Personally, I'd go for Wraithstrike because, at best, AS will give +3 attack and a 7.5 average damage (3d4) if you sacrifice a 3rd lv spell. Wraithstrike on the other hand, will effectively give you more to hit than +3 and after converting attack into 2H Power Attack your damage will be similar to, if not greater than with Arcane Strike, it also costs you only a 2nd lv slot, unlike our Arcane Strike example that cost you a 3rd lv slot.

check this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?38084-Raise-a-glass-for-the-underpowered&p=2252831#post2252831) on why arcane strike is nuketastic for Duskblades.

Also, Reach is a HUGE consideration here. Lvl 13 arcane channeling grants the spells on all attacks for the round, which includes AoOs, so the more attacks you get, the happier you'll be.

For fun: Enlightened Fist, from Complete Arcane, has the ability to turn a ray spell into a touch spell at lvl 7. You can use this to channel rays. (disintegrate on a Full-attack? wheeee)