The Mystic

[Max Caysey]

Why is this awesome PrC never mentioned in any build I read here? Its from dragon mag # 274. And it gives a total of 25 bonus spells slots per day per day divided almost as seen fit, plus a lot of nice auto metamagic.

[eggynack]

Well, it's from dragon magazine, which is a big first strike, it doesn't advance casting, which is a massive second strike, and it has as many feat prerequisites as battledancer, albeit better feat prerequisites, which is a reasonably sized third strike. Not great, in other words.

[Max Caysey]

Am I the only one who thinks thats a mistake from the designers? I mean the fluff says focus solely of spell casting... how can a dedicated casting class not advance spellcasting?

[eggynack]

Am I the only one who thinks thats a mistake from the designers? I mean the fluff says focus solely of spell casting... how can a dedicated casting class not advance spellcasting?
I dunno, but they've made more error-ish errors in the past, and the class still vaguely matches the fluff, even without casting. The text and table match on this one too, so I don't think there's much room for interpretation. I can't say it's not odd though.

[Max Caysey]

I dunno, but they've made more error-ish errors in the past, and the class still vaguely matches the fluff, even without casting. The text and table match on this one too, so I don't think there's much room for interpretation. I can't say it's not odd though.

Hmmm I see your point, though I also see that in more DM other PrC tables do not show the spellcasting progression, though it is written. To me its seems like a mistake though and I must say I have always thought that the PrC advanced spellcasting at every level.

Would you deem the PrC too powerful it it were to advance spellcasting, and if so... How good would it then become?

[eggynack]

Would you deem the PrC too powerful it it were to advance spellcasting, and if so... How good would it then become?
Depends on the game, really. Offhand, I'd probably put it at around +1 on the tier system for PrC's (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5198.0). It's not significantly better than something like mage of the arcane order, or as good as incantatrix, for example, especially with those feat prerequisites. You get a lot of endurance, and free metamagic is always nice, but there's nothing really game changing about what you're doing. You're not especially breaking the action economy, or gaining nigh-invincibility, which is what you're competing with at that level.

[Max Caysey]

Depends on the game, really. Offhand, I'd probably put it at around +1 on the tier system for PrC's (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5198.0). It's not significantly better than something like mage of the arcane order, or as good as incantatrix, for example, especially with those feat prerequisites. You get a lot of endurance, and free metamagic is always nice, but there's nothing really game changing about what you're doing. You're not especially breaking the action economy, or gaining nigh-invincibility, which is what you're competing with at that level.

After re-reading it a couple of times, I do think it fits the class to have full spellcasting, albeit it becomes more powerful. But as you said, your not breaking anything by allowing full spellcasting advancement.

If you were to suggest a more powerful PrC for an epic wizard, what would you advice? And for what reason?

EDIT: Let me be quick to say that he has the following feats: Improved Initiative, Spellcasting Prodegy, Spellfire Wielder, Practiced Spellcaster, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Meta Magic, Eshew Materials, Skill Focus , Spell Focus: Evo/Tra, Great Intelligence x1, Insigthful Caster, Quicken Spell, Automatic Quicken Spell x2.

Important to know is, that Auto Quicked funcions as 3.0 version and so does Spellcasting Prodegy.

The nice thing about the Mystic was that the character at hand actually had all the entry feats needed for the class... So it was "perfect" for him. No spellcasting progression though presents a problem.

[sleepyphoenixx]

An epic character doesn't really need the casting advancement as long as he can raise his CL in other ways. On the other hand the Mystic doesn't really add much.

You get a lot of bonus spells but as an epic wizard you should already have more than enough spell slots. The choices available for Spell Secret are among the weaker metamagic feats.
Permanent maximize/quicken on a single spell is nice, but not especially powerful.

In short, the Mystic doesn't really make your casting that much better. It just lets you cast more, which is of questionable value unless you DM never lets you rest and recover spells.

There's different, better ways to get free metamagic (Incantatrix). There's PrCs that make your spellcasting significantly stronger and/or more versatile (Red Wizard, Hathran, Archmage, Spellguard, War Weaver). There's things like Dweomerkeeper or Mind Mage.
Bonus spell slots and a few weak metamagic effects on a limited number of spells can't really keep up with that, spellcasting progression or not.

[Max Caysey]

An epic character doesn't really need the casting advancement as long as he can raise his CL in other ways. On the other hand the Mystic doesn't really add much.

You get a lot of bonus spells but as an epic wizard you should already have more than enough spell slots. The choices available for Spell Secret are among the weaker metamagic feats.
Permanent maximize/quicken on a single spell is nice, but not especially powerful.

In short, the Mystic doesn't really make your casting that much better. It just lets you cast more, which is of questionable value unless you DM never lets you rest and recover spells.

There's different, better ways to get free metamagic (Incantatrix). There's PrCs that make your spellcasting significantly stronger and/or more versatile (Red Wizard, Hathran, Archmage, Spellguard, War Weaver). There's things like Dweomerkeeper or Mind Mage.
Bonus spell slots and a few weak metamagic effects on a limited number of spells can't really keep up with that, spellcasting progression or not.

So what you are saying is, that this PrC sucks... even with full spellcasting advancement... Ok. If a players approached you, whould you guys allow full casting progression?

[sleepyphoenixx]

As written, yes, it sucks. Losing 10 levels of spellcasting progression is nearly impossible to make up even with fantastic class features, and these are only mediocre. At epic it becomes a little more bearable as long as you keep your CL up but it's still not what i'd call good.

With full casting it isn't that much better than a pure wizard. Especially at epic levels it doesn't break anything that isn't already broken without it. I would allow it.