Bogroll=Balrog

[Maerad of Pellinor]

I don't think there's been a thread on this before, I did a search and got nothing. Anyway, Bogroll sounds a lot like Balrog....Is this proof that Gobwin Knob is evil?

[BabbageCliolog]

I don't think there's been a thread on this before, I did a search and got nothing. Anyway, Bogroll sounds a lot like Balrog....Is this proof that Gobwin Knob is evil?

I find better proof in the following:

1. Gobwin Infantry
2. Uncroaked Infantry
3. Unbridled ambition to get all the arkentools

Goblinoid and Undead are usually signs of evil, especially in most literature and RPGs. Actively going to war to get the arkentools also fits the "evil" side.

That's just my view.

Doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the comic. Go badguys!

/BC

[Luvlein]

Bog roll is toilet paper.

[Maurog]

Balrog wasn't really evil, he just did what the Doctor told him because he must obey the Demon Crown...

What?

[Jarelk]

Yay! Another Doukutsu Monogatari/Cave Story player =D!

Anyway, I think the names Balrog and Bogroll are irrelevant(Did I spell this right?) to each other. Balrog, Schmacktot.

[Jacob_Gallagher]

I still don't see stuff like this as proof that Gobwin Knob is evil. Do we even know that the troops are? In real life, very few soldiers (and they are on all sides) were actually 'evil', the majority just do what they're told and believe as they've been raised.

[Luvlein]

Well, this isn't real life.
And who needs 'proof'? As long as there is absolutely nothing to indicate that Gobwin Knob might be something other than evil, I'll go with Stanleys personal evilness and the general cliché evilness of his troops and call Gobwin Knob evil, period

[Jacob_Gallagher]

Um, what has Stanley done to suggest that he's evil? Torture? No, at this 'time in history' every nation used torture. Goblins? Perhaps mercenary, perhaps this isn't fantasy cliche. Undead troops? There are emos where I live, and they seem very depressed, but not evil. Necromancy is just another magic. There has been no evidence at all to suggest that Stanley is evil.

[Luvlein]

There is no 'this time in history'. And even if Ansom used torture as well, which I doubt, it still would be evil to do so. Being good is not about majority votes.
Emos aren not undead. Undead are not real. In stories, undead tend to be evil. Very much so.
Gobwins just the same; and for them being mercenaries, that would not matter, but the city is named Gobwin Knob, after all.
And Stanley, he uses every opportunity to be mean and selfish, even in normal conversation.

[Maurog]

I never seen the uncroaked do anything evil. What's with the accusations?
Don't go with stereotypes like "vampires are evil" or "shady elves are evil".

Good rulers should be "selfish and mean". Hippies are not ruling material.

[Luvlein]

I see. Because the Gobwin Knob people had most of the screen time, they cannot be evil, no matter what.
And Stanley is obviously an excellent ruler. He is winning the war, his land is prospering. Harassing his minions over petty issues ensures that.

[Jacob_Gallagher]

No, because they had most of the screen time, you cannot assume that Ansom is all good and noble just because we haven't seen much of him.

[Luvlein]

I don't. I do not claim that Ansom is good. I never did. But when I look at Gobwin Knob, there is plenty of reason to assume it is evil, while none at all to assume it is good. That is why I call it evil.
This is a story after all; why should I refuse hints given by the authors?
Even if those hints should prove to be red herrings, the story will be more fun if I follow them for now.

[Gygaxphobia]

Good rulers should be "selfish and mean". Hippies are not ruling material.

Et tu Machiavelli? ;)

[Ave]

At least some Hippiemancers appear to be on Stanley's side.
At least Findamancers appear to be on Stanley's side.
At least some vampires appear to be on Ansom's side.
I believe both sides got the same morality, except that Stanley's side got seriously whooped and uses only crap material to keep the army running.

[SteveMB]

Stanley's side got seriously whooped and uses only crap material to keep the army running.
Well, Sizemore's golems are presumably useful, but Stanley isn't dependent on them alone. :smallwink:

[seans23]

Bogroll appeared in PartiallyClips at least once:

http://www.partiallyclips.com/index.php?id=1009

[Vreejack]

"Bogroll" comes from "blogroll," just as "Webinar" comes from ..."webinar." They are just cool-sounding names of interweb stuff.

[Kraggi]

Et tu Machiavelli? ;)

Speaking of Machiavelli... "Someone who is loved can inspire more fear than Machiavelli ever dreamed of"-Bob Dylan

[JazzManJim]

This is a story after all; why should I refuse hints given by the authors?


Well considering that the authors basically said, in the voice of Parson, that Gobwin Knob is evil (because they have all the evil creatures), I'd say it's a safe bet.

Even Stanley's answer, which was a whole lot of twaddle about good and evil being constructs (yadda yadda) leads you to that conclusion. Good rarely has to equivocate, though some folks prefer to equivocate to explain why good isn't good.

[TiamatRoar]

Parson's new, so I think it'd be better to look at the Plaid tribe from the view points of those who have been with it longer. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to help either, because although Bogroll and Sizemore aren't evil nor does Sizemore seem like the type to knowingly support evil, Mung wants to be evil and is glad Wanda is evil while Wanda... is plain scary.

*shrug*

I saw someone say that the authors stated they wanted both sides to have their good and bad points, but I never saw that post, myself.

[DraxtonSmitz]

No, because they had most of the screen time, you cannot assume that Ansom is all good and noble just because we haven't seen much of him.

Or we can assume people want to argue just for arguement's sake. ::smallamused:

I don't think some people think that Team Knob is evil, I think they just want to argue.

[Maerad of Pellinor]

I don't think some people think that Team Knob is evil, I think they just want to argue.Was that supposed to imply that you think that Gobwin Knob is good? Or am I misreading it?

[Tor the Fallen]

The torture also sort of makes me think Gobwin Knob is evil.

[Corsair]

The whole 'There is no Good and Evil' is almost exclusively used by the evil characters to justify their actions. Not to mention that all of Gobwin Knob's forces fit the stereotypes of evil. Ansom's forces on the other hand have two groups that could potentially be called evil, the Shady Elves and Vinnie. The Shady Elves are definitely not Drow or even Evil, given their pale skin. At worst, they're goth elves. And 'good' Vampires are not unheard of. Remember, this isn't D&D. On the other hand, Goblins are not unheard of as being good, as evidenced by the Goblins webcomic. I'd frankly let it go for now, except Stanley made that classic evil speech about the nonexistence of Good and Evil.

[Scientivore]

Well considering that the authors basically said, in the voice of Parson, that Gobwin Knob is evil (because they have all the evil creatures), I'd say it's a safe bet.

Even Stanley's answer, which was a whole lot of twaddle about good and evil being constructs (yadda yadda) leads you to that conclusion. Good rarely has to equivocate, though some folks prefer to equivocate to explain why good isn't good.

I disagree with you on every point.


The whole 'There is no Good and Evil' is almost exclusively used by the evil characters to justify their actions.

Funny, that's what I would've said about the "We're Good and They're Evil" speech since it dehumanizes the opposition and invalidates their perspective.

The English language makes it all too easy to falsely pretend to have an objective perspective. "That's good" is shorter than "I approve of that." "You should" is easier than "I want you to" (and more effective at manipulating the gullible). Lies, both of them.

[Driderman]

If nothing else, the forces of Gobwin Knob seem to fit the bill of classical gaming villains rather snugly. Still, it's pretty obvious (to me at least) that the authors have strived to make both sides a bit more 'shades of grey' than black and white. But if someone asked me to assign D&D alignments the Stanley and the Knob would definitely be the evil side.

Also... I'm assuming when you all refer to Machiavelli, for some odd reason, you aren't talking about his masterpiece 'Discorsi sopra la prima deca di Tito Livio' but rather the quaint and much-abused job-application 'Il Principe'?
:smallbiggrin:

[SteveMB]

Well considering that the authors basically said, in the voice of Parson, that Gobwin Knob is evil (because they have all the evil creatures), I'd say it's a safe bet.

I wouldn't. Parson's perception of the situation does not necessarily represent either objective fact or an authorial voice.


Even Stanley's answer, which was a whole lot of twaddle about good and evil being constructs (yadda yadda) leads you to that conclusion. Good rarely has to equivocate, though some folks prefer to equivocate to explain why good isn't good.

That argument is somewhat more convincing (especially when Stanley's bullying presentation of his point of view is added to the mix), but not conclusive IMO. The fact that Stanley can't or won't make a better case for himself doesn't mean that there isn't one.

[Ultimatum479]

The fact that Stanley can't...make a better case for himself doesn't mean that there isn't one.
Are you insulting Stanley's intelligence? Careful. He might have to kill you for that.

[Alchemistmerlin]

Funny, that's what I would've said about the "We're Good and They're Evil" speech since it dehumanizes the opposition and invalidates their perspective.


Didn't you hear? Good and evil are objective now. Yep, ever since the crusades Good and Evil have been clearly defined with no question in between.

*nod*

[SteveMB]

Are you insulting Stanley's intelligence? Careful. He might have to kill you for that.

Actually, I'm just pointing out that that sort of abstract thought isn't his forte. He was evidently smart enough to rise to power, after all.

For instance, taken in isolation, the "Like they're not ruling by violence and fear. Psheh." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0032.html) line could be taken as a comment on the nature of government in general. I don't interpret it that way in this context, because Stanley doesn't strike me as the sort to digress into general political theory while chewing out someone for calling him the leader of "the bad guys".

Of course, he might find even that to be sufficiently insulting to rouse his wrath. :smallwink:

[JohnnyQDoe]

I see. Because the Gobwin Knob people had most of the screen time, they cannot be evil, no matter what.
And Stanley is obviously an excellent ruler. He is winning the war, his land is prospering. Harassing his minions over petty issues ensures that.

He is not winning the war. He has one city, a small army and a general disdain for the opinions of his more mentally advanced generals.

[Alchemistmerlin]

He is not winning the war. He has one city, a small army and a general disdain for the opinions of his more mentally advanced generals.

Someone doesn't recognize internet sarcasm

[JohnnyQDoe]

Someone doesn't recognize internet sarcasm

I wasn't actually sure if they were being sarcastic or not.

Stanley seems to be a poor leader and I think most people will agree with that statement. I'm sure not everyone will agree with me on that.

If anything, the battle seems pretty balanced, and I think it will be one of those small, tiny, little things that will decide the outcome.

[Ultimatum479]

Of course, he might find even that to be sufficiently insulting to rouse his wrath. :smallwink:
Exactly, which was my point. Was just commenting on the alignment issue. ^_^

[Setra]

Is it just me.. one of the main arguements..

"They're evil cause they use evil creatures"

Well here's a thought

A Paladin walks along a street, he sees a Goblin and kills him. The Paladin then falls. Then is later executed. Why? Because the Goblin was a Lawful Good Diplomat, who wanted to negociate a Peace Treaty with the humans on behalf of his race. Whoops, that's what he gets for assuming.

[Pyrian]

I wasn't actually sure if they were being sarcastic or not.

They were incredibly blatant about it. You really don't have an excuse.

[DraxtonSmitz]

Was that supposed to imply that you think that Gobwin Knob is good? Or am I misreading it?

Just to clarify, I think they are evil. But what I was tryig to get at was that the people saying they are "good", I think they are saying that just because they want to argue. I think deep down they don't fully believe themselves but they just want to cause a stir.




A Paladin walks along a street, he sees a Goblin and kills him. The Paladin then falls. Then is later executed. Why? Because the Goblin was a Lawful Good Diplomat, who wanted to negociate a Peace Treaty with the humans on behalf of his race. Whoops, that's what he gets for assuming.

Any paladin played in any sort of Lawful Good fashion would not randomly kill said goblin. He would probably try to see if he was breaking the law and attempt to restrain/arrest him, or try to see if he was evil (detect evil anyone?) and then probably go about the killings.

[Setra]

Any paladin played in any sort of Lawful Good fashion would not randomly kill said goblin. He would probably try to see if he was breaking the law and attempt to restrain/arrest him, or try to see if he was evil (detect evil anyone?) and then probably go about the killings.
I realize many Paladins would use Detect Evil.. but some of them would just assume it's evil, because it's a goblin. Therein lies my point.

[Icewalker]

No, he's Balrog from Cave Story (aka Doukutsu Monogatari)!

He's a toaster! Or possibly lunch box!

[Setra]

Obviously he is a Pie.. a Mud Pie.

[DraxtonSmitz]

I realize many Paladins would use Detect Evil.. but some of them would just assume it's evil, because it's a goblin. Therein lies my point.

Well your point is, in my opinio, bad. A paladin played in any decent role playing fashion wouldn't just assume. Part of being good is also allowing for benefit of the doubt. Any one that would assume the goblin is evil and just attack for no reason, well he shouldn't have been a paladin in the first place.

So far in my reading if Erfworld, there has been no doubut that Team Know is evil. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and looked for evidence of "goodness" but I have yet to find any.

[Heavensfire]

Not sure if this expression is absent from American slang but Bogroll = roll of toilet paper in British/Australian slang at least.