Realistic Alignment Shift

[Samwise88]

Magical alignment shift, due to the realism strain of "you put on a hat and your entire mental philosophy changes," is something I generally prefer to avoid. However, in my current game I find myself with a player carrying a spellbook that causes a gradual alignment shift from, in this case, NG, to CN. I'm trying to find a way to implement this subtly so as not to arouse too much suspicion from the characters and the other players.Naturally, the player in charge of this character knows about it, at least a little, and is willing to go along with it.
What's the best way to enact such a gradual shift? and what sort of actions count as "slightly chaotic good" vs actually chaotic good? where does a player start being more neutral without actually being neutral? any advice and examples that you can provide me would be much appreciated. Thanks

~Samwise88

[TandemChelipeds]

Well, the first thing we need to get out of the way(and this isn't really for your benefit so much as it's for the benefit of the rest of the thread) is that chaos isn't about what you can and can't do. That's law's wheelhouse. Chaotic characters can obey orders, they can follow the rules, and they can trust authority figures. But the key is that they place no intrinsic value in doing so. To a chaotic good character, in particular, the law is merely a convenient social fiction, and while it is convenient, and often very useful for doing good, they cannot forget that it is, in fact, a fiction.

I suggest you start with trust. Use Sense Motive a bit more often where authority figures are concerned. Maybe on the goateed vizier at first, but as time goes on this can extend to the various other nobles that hold the king's ear, then the king himself, then the entire court. To the other players, this won't necessarily look like an alignment shift so much as the gradual onset of paranoia, and something that could make perfect sense in the context of an adventure-friendly setting where the courts really are full of intrigue; if you work with this player, you could even make this appear to be a perfectly rational response to circumstances, deflecting suspicion from magic items.

As time goes on and you start shifting your player from CG to CN, I think they could go one of two routes, or possibly both at once. This depends on your interpretation of the neutral alignments; is it neutral to do evil things for good reasons? If so, your character could escalate their methods and get careless about collateral damage in their pursuit of the greater good (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MduM0SCXlqM), essentially becoming a magic-wielding terrorist. This could lead to good filler if you want to set weaker adventuring bands on your party, hammering in this wizard's new villain protagonist role. If not, you could simply have this paranoia overwhelm their personality, breaking their will to do good in favour of ever-more-extreme methods of protecting themselves from perceived assailants on all sides (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOYrCHi7yjM). (NSFW: racism, general time cube level insanity)

[Red Fel]

Magical alignment shift, due to the realism strain of "you put on a hat and your entire mental philosophy changes," is something I generally prefer to avoid. However, in my current game I find myself with a player carrying a spellbook that causes a gradual alignment shift from, in this case, NG, to CN. I'm trying to find a way to implement this subtly so as not to arouse too much suspicion from the characters and the other players.Naturally, the player in charge of this character knows about it, at least a little, and is willing to go along with it.
What's the best way to enact such a gradual shift? and what sort of actions count as "slightly chaotic good" vs actually chaotic good? where does a player start being more neutral without actually being neutral? any advice and examples that you can provide me would be much appreciated. Thanks

~Samwise88

Well, first off, you're moving on two alignment spectra. So you can either do them simultaneously, (NG -> CN) or in shifts (either NG -> TN -> CN or NG -> CG -> CN, depending on whether the stimulus is chaotic-oriented or amoral-oriented).

In either event, you're looking at two factors - first, the PC's feelings about morality, and second, his feelings about structure-versus-freedom. Let's address them in turn.

G -> N: A moral shift is, in some ways, the easier of the two spectra to adjust. It deals with perspective and methodology. Basically, a Good character is defined by having limits - not rules, per se (as those are more of an L than a G thing) but general principles on which they won't compromise, like rape, murder, or theft. The easiest way to shift away from G, then, is to justify bending your principles. Phrases like "for the greater good" come to mind. When it is more expedient to do something just a little non-Good - not something super-Evil, but just less Good than you're used to - and you choose the expedient path over the moral path, you're on your way from G to N.

At that point, it's easy. Just have the spellbook incentivize the "easy" way over the "right" way. For example, if it's an intelligent or empathic item, it might offer subtle reminders that "this is taking too much time" or "this isn't working" or something similar. Or it might contain spells which could be used in morally-questionable ways to produce highly effective results. Basically, have the spellbook either actively or passively encourage the PC in question to choose options based on their effectiveness rather than their morality. That's your G -> N shift.

N -> C: This spectrum is trickier to shift. Tricky, but not impossible, particularly for PCs, who tend to have a slightly Chaotic streak even if they're playing Lawful. There are two popular stripes of Chaos - the Lunatic and the Anarchist. The CN Lunatic (an archetype I deplore) is basically exactly what it says on the tin - he's demented. He acts on a whim, at random. He tends to become either the comic relief or highly unpopular in fairly short order. I discourage the use of this archetype. The other is the CN Anarchist. This is an oversimplification - not every CN seeks the total destruction of all order and law. But basically, this CN character values freedom over everything. Independence, choice, and so forth.

Be sure to distinguish CG (everybody deserves freedom), CE (I deserve freedom at the expense of those around me), and CN (I deserve freedom, period). Basically, this is a character who values his self-agency and ability to shape his own destiny - really, quite a reasonable desire. What distinguishes him is his lack of explicit morality - he doesn't care if he has to be a good guy or a bad guy, as long as he can be himself.

Handling the shift actually partners very nicely with the method described above for going from G to N. Basically, as he chooses what is expedient over what is right, have him feel victimized, criticized, or judged for his choices (whether he is actually being judged or not). The natural reaction to such reception is to become defensive. ("I did what I had to! And it worked, didn't it? So stop ordering me around!") A very slight streak of paranoia or defensiveness won't hurt. This influence will gradually convince the PC that only he knows what's best for him. People just don't seem to understand. And that's fine. Maybe they never will. But they don't get to tell him what he can or cannot do. And that's your N -> C shift.

Those are just a few options, of course. I find that passing notes to/from the player will help too, just offering suggestions, impressions, or possible cues to take. And obviously, out of character conversation will be quite helpful.

I love a well-played gradual alignment shift. I hope you'll tell me how it works out.

[Flickerdart]

Be sure to distinguish CG (everybody deserves freedom), CE (I deserve freedom at the expense of those around me), and CN (I deserve freedom, period). Basically, this is a character who values his self-agency and ability to shape his own destiny - really, quite a reasonable desire. What distinguishes him is his lack of explicit morality - he doesn't care if he has to be a good guy or a bad guy, as long as he can be himself.
Chaos doesn't have to be selfish. A CN character might not want freedom for everybody, but he might want freedom for anybody. A puppy on a leash? Freedom! A peasant under the yoke of a baron? Freedom! A murderer in the baron's dungeon? Freedom for him too! An ancient evil bound by dark magics for centuries? Time for some freedom! A clerk going about his daily paperwork? He really needs some freedom, he just doesn't know it yet. Better let him know how free he can be by getting him fired and dragging him with you on an expedition into the Death Pits of Certain Doom.

[Red Fel]

Chaos doesn't have to be selfish. A CN character might not want freedom for everybody, but he might want freedom for anybody. A puppy on a leash? Freedom! A peasant under the yoke of a baron? Freedom! A murderer in the baron's dungeon? Freedom for him too! An ancient evil bound by dark magics for centuries? Time for some freedom! A clerk going about his daily paperwork? He really needs some freedom, he just doesn't know it yet. Better let him know how free he can be by getting him fired and dragging him with you on an expedition into the Death Pits of Certain Doom.

Yeah... That's a bit of a caricature, though, isn't it?

More importantly, that's a pretty un-subtle shift in personality, and the goal here is for the change to be gradual and insidious.

But I do like the anarcho-radicalist freer of puppies and savior of clerks idea. Then we can see the violence inherent in the system!

[TandemChelipeds]

Yeah... That's a bit of a caricature, though, isn't it?

More importantly, that's a pretty un-subtle shift in personality, and the goal here is for the change to be gradual and insidious.

But I do like the anarcho-radicalist freer of puppies and savior of clerks idea. Then we can see the violence inherent in the system!

Judging by the fact that the item's a spellbook, I'm guessing this character's a wizard. An intellectual. I could see a character becoming obsessed with adhering to their own internal logic, given that they have the arcane power to enforce their will, but I agree that it sounds more like a chaos strawman than a genuinely plausible chaotic character. Then again, tone it down a bit and you basically have Tyler Durden, the ultimate CN ubermensch, so...

[Flickerdart]

Yeah... That's a bit of a caricature, though, isn't it?

More importantly, that's a pretty un-subtle shift in personality, and the goal here is for the change to be gradual and insidious.
It's unsubtle if all he does all day is free the downtrodden and then dump them straight into the same streets that he released a horde of rampaging orcs two minutes ago. The whole point of CN is that it's fickle, inconstant.

[Susano-wo]

aside from the obvious advice of"make it subtle," I would present situations to the player that tempt him(?) to compromise his current principles. With every compromise, he makes his way across the alignment chart, bit by bit. :smallamused:Shouldn't steal? but it might save so and so's life. can't just kill someone who's in my way? but the need is so dire, and every second counts!

Stuff like that, starting small, and building to the point where the character is rationalizing everything he is doing to be moral, and ordered, no matter how far from the truth it is

This is all made easier by the player being on board, so hopefully, he'll take the bait willingly.:smallbiggrin:

[Grytorm]

I like to think that Law and Chaos would interact with the fundamental logic of the universe. So law sees the world as an ordered place where Chaos sees it is inherently unordered. So Law might see an unjust baron as an imperfection in an idealized order. While Chaos would see him as a jerk.