Mystery help! - Generating clues

[WarKitty]

*chases players off with a broom*



Ok, for the rest of you, here's the plot I want to run. Long time ago, an adventurer tried to steal from an old witch. The witch put a curse on him, that any time he or any of his descendants stole, they would lose a year of life. Both are long since dead, and the only way to lift the curse is for one of her descendants to brew a particular potion. Player A is a descendant of the adventurer; Player B is a descendant of the witch. Neither of them have any clue about this. Player A doesn't know his dad (though his mom does), and Player B doesn't know either of her parents.

Here's the steps I want to lead them through:
(1) Player A has some sort of curse on him. I plan on telling them this but they'll want confirmation.
(2) Player A's curse seems to have been passed down through the family line.
(3) They need a descendant of the witch to break the curse
(4) The descendant needs to brew a particular potion
(4) Player B is a descendant needed

Now my problem is I'm better at coming up with plots than finding enough clues for my players to get on all the plots. Especially given that I have players with a tendency to latch onto mysteries and intrigue whether or not they exist (and often in the exact places where they don't exist). So any ideas for clues or neat twists would be good.

[JusticeZero]

Throw some random clues at them, let them grind their insane trolls in the hamster wheels, and any ideas that move in the right direction, toss confirming evidence for in their paths.
Also, for supernatural plots like this? Cryptic dream sequences and omens.

[WarKitty]

Throw some random clues at them, let them grind their insane trolls in the hamster wheels, and any ideas that move in the right direction, toss confirming evidence for in their paths.
Also, for supernatural plots like this? Cryptic dream sequences and omens.

This is...kind of telling me to do what I asked for help doing?

Edit: My basic problem is that I'm not good at dropping clues that aren't either blatantly obvious or so cryptic as to go nowhere.

[JusticeZero]

The main issue with that curse is that the most obvious clue is going to be a clear direction, and there isn't much lingering evidence otherwise. Find someone who knows the story, but not who the characters are. That's going to be blunderingly blatant because they don't hear fairy tales in game much, but it's as vague as you can get.
And you appear not to have understood my advice in the first place. I didn't say "craft a clever clue", I said "Dump a bucket of red herrings on them, and retroactively make the ones that they scheme up to mean something that moves them in more or less the right direction no longer red herrings."

[WarKitty]

The main issue with that curse is that the most obvious clue is going to be a clear direction, and there isn't much lingering evidence otherwise. Find someone who knows the story, but not who the characters are. That's going to be blunderingly blatant because they don't hear fairy tales in game much, but it's as vague as you can get.
And you appear not to have understood my advice in the first place. I didn't say "craft a clever clue", I said "Dump a bucket of red herrings on them, and retroactively make the ones that they scheme up to mean something that moves them in more or less the right direction no longer red herrings."

Thanks for clarifying.

Actually I did have some thoughts on that. Basically I had thoughts that they'd need to do research of some sort to figure out what the curse was, but of course that research can only be done in some particular place. Say there is a magically sealed library or something somewhere and they have to figure out how to get in and once they're in they can start iguring things out.

It's a 3.5 game but I've been adding in and making up rituals as I go (ignoring the actual rules because they're stupid), so those are on the table. Divination is highly available if they get the right info.

[Segev]

First of all, does Character A tend to steal?

If so, talk to him about how his character was an "early bloomer" and grew up particularly fast. Maybe he's younger than he looks already.

If not, you're going to need to set up a situation where stealing is desirable. The aging can be made somewhat obvious if it's done at the moment of theft, even if it wouldn't be obvious over the course of a year at his starting age.


Now that he's got a clue as to the nature of the curse, you're probably going to need to provide him a way to investigate its source. Does he know his family? Is there a history of family members who age fast and die young? If he doesn't know his family, or this history isn't clear, he might need to have a mystery involving a man with a similar condition to his from the past. It will turn out he's a relative (possibly a direct ancestor, possibly a branch-family ancestor) who shares lineage back to the original curse victim.

If he goes for divination, try to push him towards a more witchy source of divination. One which can identify it not just as an ancestral curse, but which can point out that witches' curses can only be lifted by the witch or her heir. That it requires a specific potion can come up now or later, depending on how you expect that knowledge to be available at all.

I have less helpful advice for revealing Character B's ancestry.

The one idea there would require, for it to work narratively, that Character A not steal too terribly often. You can obscure the curse by making it cause not just aging, but a retcon in everybody's mind about his age. So not only did he age 1 year, but everybody now thinks he was always born 1 year earlier. Except descendents of the witch, who recall reality and can see the rapid aging.

Character A might have a family with a reputation of a lot of "do-nothings" in its past. Perhaps he had a "great-uncle" who did absolutely nothing with his life, and was caught stealing towards the end before he died of old age, an embarassment to the family. In truth, this "great-uncle" was his older brother, who was a thieving scamp...and so everybody gradually had their memories of him say he'd been around for decades and just never accomplished much in that time.

You play this version out by, when Character A steals something, telling Character B's player about the aging. Explain to him that Character A was a year younger a moment ago. Have everybody else insist nothing's changed. This is a trickier version of the tale, because you need to get Character B on board with pretending that he met Character A as ever-younger than what Character A (and the rest of the world) remembers. If Character A is a fighter who started as a 20-year-old, for example, and steals 5 times, Character B will need to be aware that he STARTED by traveling with a 15-year-old who has rapidly aged to 20. And if A steals again, it was actually a 14-year-old with whom B started traveling.

This will take a little longer to get the message across, IC, to Character A, but should give hints that something's up with Character B, as the only one who can perceive the truth. Definitely will want to curb A's desire to steal before he ages himself into having been too young for there to be a good explanation as to why B started traveling with A on adventures in the first place.

[ReaderAt2046]

A way to hint at Player B's ancestry:

Have them need to break into the witch's cottage for some reason. She put up some permanent magical defenses around the cottage: guardian monsters, curses, a forcefield, whatever. The important thing is that whatever the defenses are, Player B automatically bypasses them. The monsters just step aside, the curses don't trigger, she can walk through the forcefield as though it weren't there, whatever. Everyone else, the defenses still attack. Should be a big clue that there's something going on.

Also, if you'd like to throw in another clue at the same time, have the witch have a diary of some sort, where she bragged about what she did to the adventurer. This will tell them what the curse entails, but not that it applies to them or how to break it.

[Pyromancer999]

A way to hint at Player B's ancestry:

Have them need to break into the witch's cottage for some reason. She put up some permanent magical defenses around the cottage: guardian monsters, curses, a forcefield, whatever. The important thing is that whatever the defenses are, Player B automatically bypasses them. The monsters just step aside, the curses don't trigger, she can walk through the forcefield as though it weren't there, whatever. Everyone else, the defenses still attack. Should be a big clue that there's something going on.

Also, if you'd like to throw in another clue at the same time, have the witch have a diary of some sort, where she bragged about what she did to the adventurer. This will tell them what the curse entails, but not that it applies to them or how to break it.

This would be quite good. Maybe also include she has hidden a cure for her descendants to find if they can find a descendant of the person that robbed her, provided the descendant thinks they have outgrown their ancestor's thieving blood.

For Player A:

-His father/mother always told him that thieves always meet an early end, and that thieving takes years off your life, and they should know.

-A comes into contact with his parent, and notices they've fallen on hard times and look much more more aged than they should. Parent asks son to search a familial property owned by A's now dead uncle/grandpa/aunt/other relative, as they are too old and tired to .

-A comes across family papers from an ancestor , preferably a religious one, saying sins never pay, and they show their toll on their body, as his father did after he committed one too many acts of theft.

-Find the family treasure, which turns out to be a cache of expensive, rare dried herb and seeds of that herb, plus a few coins, with it turning out that the specific herb is a key ingredient in making the potion that can lift the curse(may want to have Player B find out they are a descendant of The witch first). The herb was purposefully made part of the cure because it was part of the stuff the ancestral thief took from the witch, to prove that the descendant valued the lives of themselves and their family over money(herb is really expensive and rare).

This may or may not be good, but hope it at least sparks some ideas.

[WarKitty]

Ok a few clarifications:

(1) I already told PC A that he has a curse and matching birthmark.

(2) I determined the curse comes from PC A's father. PC A has never met his father; his backstory states some violence towards his mother.

(3) PC B was a slave girl, determined to have been separated from her family at a young age. She has no connection to either parent.


I like the cottage idea. I've got them set up for a nice magic dreamquest time and I'm thinking I could give PC B a dream about the cottage. PC B already wants to find out who her family is

I don't think the aging a year thing would work for the simple reason that I think PC A would have to be negative years old.

[Segev]

I don't think the aging a year thing would work for the simple reason that I think PC A would have to be negative years old.

I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean?

[WarKitty]

I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean?

Couldn't do the visibly age a year thing with PC A because PC A is listed as 22 and has committed more than 22 thefts in his backstory.

[Segev]

Couldn't do the visibly age a year thing with PC A because PC A is listed as 22 and has committed more than 22 thefts in his backstory.

Ahh. Yes, that would make that an issue.

I was under the mistaken (now that I read back) impression that the curse being "age a year per theft" was something the OP had declared was the case. I see now that the nature of the curse is still to be decided. Is that accurate?

[WarKitty]

Ahh. Yes, that would make that an issue.

I was under the mistaken (now that I read back) impression that the curse being "age a year per theft" was something the OP had declared was the case. I see now that the nature of the curse is still to be decided. Is that accurate?

Right. My working idea is that the character loses a year of life for each theft - but that it would be more of a drop dead while young deal than an aging deal. Though since I haven't said anything in game, that's up for changes if I hear a better idea.

[JusticeZero]

The curse might have been held off for a bit by another thing going on - say, if the curse only applies to the elder, and they have a brother who is about to keel over from extreme old age..

[The_Werebear]

If Player A doesn't know the nature of the curse, I think having the visible aging would probably be best for making the point clear. Especially if you include, as was suggested earlier, that he was an early bloomer.

He could experience a sharp pain (growing/aging pains) when he does steal, so they have some idea what the trigger for the activation is (this will help avoid him aging himself to death very early in the campaign).

[WarKitty]

If Player A doesn't know the nature of the curse, I think having the visible aging would probably be best for making the point clear. Especially if you include, as was suggested earlier, that he was an early bloomer.

He could experience a sharp pain (growing/aging pains) when he does steal, so they have some idea what the trigger for the activation is (this will help avoid him aging himself to death very early in the campaign).

The main issue is this is a thief character. Per backstory he was a bit of a thief before becoming an adventurer. Plus there were several thefts in the opening session of the campaign. So wile the premature aging would be a good idea with a different character, I just don't feel like it's feasible for this particular character without making things insanely complex. I've actually been debating having an age cutoff (say 25) for thieves rather than losing a year, just to avoid issues.

[Couronne]

Edit: Expanding a bit on JusticeZero's idea - credit where credit is due.

Story idea rather than a clues thing, but could Player A have an older sibling who Player A finds out about and meets and could the curse only trigger as an ageing effect on the oldest living heir?

If so, then you've got an obvious way to show the effects of the curse wihout hamstringing Player A (the older sibling) added to the mystery (why Player A insn't suffering yet) and once the nature of the curse comes out in full you've also given Player A an extra goal of keeping his older sibling alive lest Player A suddenly become the oldest living heir, the curse trigger on him and suddenly all his past thefts catch-up to him and instantly render him geriatric.

[WarKitty]

Edit: Expanding a bit on JusticeZero's idea - credit where credit is due.

Story idea rather than a clues thing, but could Player A have an older sibling who Player A finds out about and meets and could the curse only trigger as an ageing effect on the oldest living heir?

If so, then you've got an obvious way to show the effects of the curse wihout hamstringing Player A (the older sibling) added to the mystery (why Player A insn't suffering yet) and once the nature of the curse comes out in full you've also given Player A an extra goal of keeping his older sibling alive lest Player A suddenly become the oldest living heir, the curse trigger on him and suddenly all his past thefts catch-up to him and instantly render him geriatric.

I'm really not thinking the idea is going to work. Especially if I'm drawing things out, I feel like if PC A suddenly became super old it wouldn't be any fun anymore. He's a melee character and that would make him useless.

Hm, something I might do...scratch the aging entirely and start applying a luck penalty to all thief-type skills? In-game this could be represented by making extra rolls and taking the worst, with the number increasing. This would certainly be fun too as the player has had abysmal luck with stealth and thieving skills so far due to hateful dice. Trust me this would annoy the player no end.

[JusticeZero]

The issue there would be that curses work best when it's spooling out rope to hang the victim. Aging is just punitive, which is okay, but ineptitude is going to tend make them stop stealing, because it doesn't work. So it's not so much a "curse" as something that a Paladin would wish upon themself.

[WarKitty]

The issue there would be that curses work best when it's spooling out rope to hang the victim. Aging is just punitive, which is okay, but ineptitude is going to tend make them stop stealing, because it doesn't work. So it's not so much a "curse" as something that a Paladin would wish upon themself.

To be fair, I wasn't going to just apply the penalties to stealing, but to any use of stealing-type skills. So all uses of stealth take a hit. Same thing with all uses of disable device.

[JusticeZero]

It still sounds like the kind of thing that an elderly priest of a god of Goodly light Goodness would bestow on someone as a blessing.

[ReaderAt2046]

Another curse idea: Whenever the victim steals something, everyone he encounters is compelled to try and steal things from him until he has lost an equivalent value to what he stole. The witch's offspring is, of course, immune, but everyone else, including fellow party members, has to make a Will save every time there is a reasonable opportunity to steal something from him, with failure compelling them to take the opportunity.

[WarKitty]

It still sounds like the kind of thing that an elderly priest of a god of Goodly light Goodness would bestow on someone as a blessing.

I have to say this would be a very strange game. If you're against the rogue sneaking up on an enemy you're at best Lawful Neutral in my books. It's not like stealing is even universally wrong in my game - in fact I've had a plotline where it was pretty clearly the right thing to do. And rogue-boy comes from a culture where it's definitely much more common and accepted.

I do want something that won't be turned off by not stealing in the future, though. So it's not like he's going to get better; the fact of the matter is there's a lot of damage already done.

[Sam113097]

If Player A has not yet met his father, you could introduce him to give more information about the curse. An old man who claims to be Player A's father but looks to be far too old could be both a clue and a memorable NPC encounter.

[WarKitty]

If Player A has not yet met his father, you could introduce him to give more information about the curse. An old man who claims to be Player A's father but looks to be far too old could be both a clue and a memorable NPC encounter.

Given that I've already declared the aging thing is too impractical to work, not really.

((Why is it that everyone's getting into their heads that this is settled when I said the opposite?))

[Segev]

How about whatever skill he uses to steal from them doubles as a Diplomacy check which specifically is geared towards shifting their attitude towards romantic love/lust for him? The curse makes him figuratively steal the hearts of those whom he robs. Despite the "helpful" mindset, it's not necessarily a boon: jealousy and possessiveness and persistance of undesirable lovers won't be short-circuited by any effort to make them decide "I just want him to be happy." Though there might be some truly good people he could afflict this way, this is no more the norm than it would be without the curse.

Also consider the jealous lovers of those whose hearts he steals.

[WarKitty]

How about whatever skill he uses to steal from them doubles as a Diplomacy check which specifically is geared towards shifting their attitude towards romantic love/lust for him? The curse makes him figuratively steal the hearts of those whom he robs. Despite the "helpful" mindset, it's not necessarily a boon: jealousy and possessiveness and persistance of undesirable lovers won't be short-circuited by any effort to make them decide "I just want him to be happy." Though there might be some truly good people he could afflict this way, this is no more the norm than it would be without the curse.

Also consider the jealous lovers of those whose hearts he steals.

Might be a little hard to do with the past thefts. Maybe modify it a bit so he attracts the attention of spirits? They don't need to be hostile, just sort of annoying.

That might actually work nicely as well if I start gifting the witch's daughter with the ability to see the dead.