[3.5] Getting Nymph's Unearthly Grace and making it work for you

[hymer]

This is for purely academical reasons (AKA idle curiosity) at the moment. The nymph gets Unearthly Grace as a supernatural ability, which grants charisma modifier as a typeless bonus to saves and deflection to AC. That's a pretty juicy piece of fruit, as it were. But is it accesible in practical play? And how would you make the most of it?
All thoughts, comments, suggestions, ideas, etc. are welcome.

[stack]

Psionics power metamorphosis-turns you into a nymph, feat metamorphic transfer-grants one supernatural ability of the form you take. Works best on a wilder grabbing metamorphosis with expanded knowledge since they tend to have high charisma. Psions less so. Shifter wilders can get it without the feat using substitution levels.

[John Longarrow]

Wish that, upon finishing the casting of your wish, you will die and be true reincarnated as a Nymph?

[Bronk]

Per Savage Species, you could use a wish to wish to become a nymph, and with a high enough spellcraft check you could gain all their abilities as well.

[Sian]

play a Gloura (Forgotten Realms: Underdark), they got the same ability, with 7RHD, LA+2 and casts as a 7th level bard

[hymer]

@ stack: It's a little short duration, but it would do the trick. Thanks!

@ John Longarrow & Bronk: Wishing for it duly noted, thanks!

@ Sian: I had never heard of Glouras, thanks for pointing them out! I don't think we have that book in the group, though.

[Heliomance]

Psionics power metamorphosis-turns you into a nymph, feat metamorphic transfer-grants one supernatural ability of the form you take. Works best on a wilder grabbing metamorphosis with expanded knowledge since they tend to have high charisma. Psions less so. Shifter wilders can get it without the feat using substitution levels.

Does MoMF get the ability to turn into Fey? Because if so, you can Assume Supernatural Ability it.

[Thurbane]

Be a Battle Dancer/Paladin of Freedom? Cha to AC (while unarmored) and saves.

Not exactly what the OP was about, but hey...

[hymer]

@ Heliomance: Yes indeed, at level 4. Good one, thanks! Now, how to get wild shape on a charisma-dependent class...

@ Thurbane: Not exactly the same, but combining what pal/BD with unearthly grace could be... graceful? Sorry, that's horrible. :smallredface: But thanks for the suggestion. :smallsmile:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Gloura (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) was in their web enhancement.

Spell Compendium has Sirine's Grace (Bard 4, Druid 5), which gives you +4 Dex and Cha, a Deflection bonus to AC equal to your Cha bonus, among other benefits. It has a range of personal, so you can use Persistent Spell with it.

[Bronk]

There are a bunch of other ways to get charisma bonus to affect your AC under 'charisma' in the x bonus to y stat thread...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus

[hymer]

@ Biff: Thanks for the Gloura link! I see it's 3.0, so it might look different for 3.5, but otherwise much more attractive than nymph, so to speak. Sirine's Grace looks cute, if you can get it persisted in an efficient manner. Thanks!

@ Bronk: That's all very nice, and would be something to look into. As I said to Thurbane, it would be interesting to combine some of it with unearthly grace. Thanks!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

@ Biff: Thanks for the Gloura link! I see it's 3.0, so it might look different for 3.5, but otherwise much more attractive than nymph, so to speak. Sirine's Grace looks cute, if you can get it persisted in an efficient manner. Thanks!

Why would you think it's 3.0? That page is dated October 2003, when Underdark was released, 3.5 was released in July 2003. It's very much 3.5, but even if it was 3.0, all 3.0 content that wasn't reprinted in 3.5 is still usable in 3.5 games.

Furthermore, relevant build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342828-Damnable-PC-s-need-a-Blackguard-built-that-ll-teach-them-a-lesson!#6). Edit: Current Arcane Duelist link (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a).

[Inevitability]

If you go Gloura, you could also just take a single level of bard, then go Sublime Chord. If LA buyoff is allowed, you can also take two levels of paladin and gain charisma to saving throws and AC a second time.

[Segev]

If you go Gloura, you could also just take a single level of bard, then go Sublime Chord. If LA buyoff is allowed, you can also take two levels of paladin and gain charisma to saving throws and AC a second time.

Only to saving throws; paladins don't get Cha to AC.

Well, PF ones do, but only against targets of their Smite Evil ability.

[hymer]

@ Biff: It uses the 3.0 version of Weapon Finesse and Perform. I'm pretty sure it's 3.0. Are you sure the dates don't mean the 10th of April rather than the 3rd of October?
I don't think I've ever seen a blanket statement to the effect that anything 3.0 goes for 3.5 if it hasn't been updated. IIRC there are caveats that the DM will need to go over 3.0 material and update to 3.5 as s/he sees fit. This almost goes without saying, since some things simply contradict each other, and you have to take one use or another - or take some third option. That doesn't mean the Gloura is unusable or anything, just that you're on slightly less certain footing if you're not the DM.

@ Dire_Stirge: Yep, sounds pretty good. Bardadins can be pretty good gishes. Except for Segev's note, of course.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

@ Biff: It uses the 3.0 version of Weapon Finesse and Perform. I'm pretty sure it's 3.0. Are you sure the dates don't mean the 10th of April rather than the 3rd of October?
I don't think I've ever seen a blanket statement to the effect that anything 3.0 goes for 3.5 if it hasn't been updated. IIRC there are caveats that the DM will need to go over 3.0 material and update to 3.5 as s/he sees fit. This almost goes without saying, since some things simply contradict each other, and you have to take one use or another - or take some third option. That doesn't mean the Gloura is unusable or anything, just that you're on slightly less certain footing if you're not the DM.

Underdark says it was first printed October 2003, so I'm pretty sure that's what the article is dated. It uses the mm/dd/yy format that's standard in the US. You're right about the feats and skills, what was printed in Underdark is a little different: Perform is switched to string instruments, and it has Self-Sufficient, Skill Focus (Heal), and Weapon Finesse, all of which can be switched out if you make it a PC or an NPC with class levels. Chances are they were working on it during 3.0, and updated it to 3.5 for the book but pasted an older version into the web excerpt.

[hymer]

Chances are they were working on it during 3.0, and updated it to 3.5 for the book but pasted an older version into the web excerpt.

That makes sense. :smallsmile:

[Heliomance]

@ Heliomance: Yes indeed, at level 4. Good one, thanks! Now, how to get wild shape on a charisma-dependent class...

Divine Minion?

[hymer]

Divine Minion?

There's a Divine Minion class?? Where?

[Vhaidara]

There's a Divine Minion class?? Where?

It's a template. harder to find now that WotC archives the online articles

[Heliomance]

There's a Divine Minion class?? Where?

Courtesy of the WayBack Machine (https://web.archive.org/web/20140727095027/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a)

[hymer]

@ Keledrath & Heliomance: Oh, right. Should've recognized that! You still have to get the DM to accept it as a class feature (as per MoMF entry requirements), but definitely nifty. Thanks!

[Heliomance]

It's probably easier to just be incorporeal. Creatures with the incorporeal subtype automatically get charisma to ac.

[Segev]

It's worth noting that, aside from other problems incorporeality might introduce, incorporeal creatures never get to apply their natural armor bonus to their AC, so if you have NAC from any source, incorporeality costs you that.