View Full Version : Lots of Attacks

2007-03-03, 04:40 PM
I was thinking about creating a character for two weapon fighting, and I was wondering how many attacks you could squeeze out of a 14th level character. Damage doesn't matter, but please state which attacks sneak attack could apply to.

I have access to the PHB, DMG, MM, MM3, CPsi, CArc, MotP, XPH, LOM, TOB:tBo9S, Planar Handbook, Miniatures Handbook, Spell Compendium, Unearthered Arcana, CWar, and CDiv

I would prefer it if the attacks are useable several times per day, and don't depend on unusal circumstances. Also, this will be a gelstalt character, and I will be taking sneak attack fighter on the other side, so assume full BAB progression.

2007-03-03, 05:03 PM
3 attacks primary, 3 secondary with twf feats. Haste or a speed weapon is another one.

Are you talking a number of attacks you can repeat all day, or something you can call on when needed? The latter gets quite sick with some combos, primarily those that allow additional full round actions and such.

2007-03-03, 05:07 PM
I was thinking about creating a character for two weapon fighting, and I was wondering how many attacks you could squeeze out of a 14th level character. Damage doesn't matter, but please state which attacks sneak attack could apply to.
I have access to the PHB, DMG, MM, MM3, CPsi, CArc, MotP, XPH, LOM, TOB:tBo9S, Planar Handbook, Miniatures Handbook, Spell Compendium, Unearthered Arcana, CWar, and CDiv

Fourteen, all of them.

The best I can think of is a Halfling Master Thrower with Palm Throw, Sneaky Shot and Weak spot.

Racial Point Blank Shot
1 Swashbuckler1 Weapon Finesse Precise
2 Fighter(Thug varaint from UA)1 /Swash1
3 Ranger1/Ftr1/Swash1 Quickdraw
4 Rgr2/Ftr1/Swash1 Two Weapon Fighting
5 Whisperknife1(from Races of the Wild)/Rgr2/Ftr1/Swash1 Rapid Shot
6 WKnife2/Rgr2/Ftr1/Swash1 Weapon Focus(Dagger)
7 WKnife3/Rgr2/Ftr1/Swash1
8 WKnife4/Rgr2/Ftr1/Swash1
9 MThrow 1/WKnife4/Rgr2/Ftr1/Swash1 ITWF (Retrain Quickdraw)
10 MThrow 2/WKnife4/Rgr2/Ftr1/Swash1
11 MThrow 3/WKnife4/Rgr2/Ftr1/Swash1 GTWF
13 MThrow 4/WKnife4/Rgr2/Ftr1/Swash1
14 MThrow 5/WKnife4/Rgr2/Ftr1/Swash1

If Strong heart halfling is not available, simply retrain Quickdraw into Precise Shot before taking your first level of Master Thrower, otherwise you have another feat to spend.

You get full bab and I think Six attacks at +13, four attacks at +8, and four attacks at +3, these numbers exclude DEX bonus and weapon enhancements. What's sweet is that they are all touch attacks. You can now flank with thrown daggers, can feint with your sleight of hand skill. Your SA damage is only at +2d6 though.

Don't worry about the Whisperknife since it was just a way of getting Rapid shot for free, preventing AoO's when throwing and making sure you don't suck in melee. It's not Absolutely Necessary, though. If you can't go Whisperknife go: Rog3, Rgr2, Swash3, MThrow5 then Invisible Blade 5 for the rest of the levels before going back to Rog2. You get Insightful Strike damage on thrown daggers as well btw.

2007-03-03, 05:39 PM
Aren't there a bunch of Feats that grant extra attacks, like Flip Kick or something? I seem to remember Fax building something like this.

2007-03-03, 05:42 PM
Snap Kick, for melee.

2007-03-03, 05:51 PM
That's the one, Snap Kick, thanks Ikkitosen.

2007-03-03, 06:01 PM
It's a great feat for many builds, although often not optimum. There should be more feats like that IMO.

2007-03-03, 06:02 PM
The best way to get multiple attacks in a round is to gain multiple full attacks per round.

Probably the best way to do this is to use the Shadow Pounce ability of the Telfamar Shadow Lord (Unapproachable East) or Critni Shadow Marauder (Shining South), combined with the manuevers shadow jaunt, shadow stride, and shadow blink (Tome of Battle). Depending on which PRC you chose and how you juggled the feats for entry (something I'm confidant is possible, but don't really feel like doing), you could end up with something like:

On hand: normal -4, normal -4 (weapons of speed), normal -9, normal -14
Off hand: normal -4 (TWF), normal -9 (ImpTWF), normal -14 (GrTWF)
Other: Unarmed -2 (snap kick)

For 8 attacks per full attack.

Standard Action: Shadow Jaunt, full attack
Move Action: Shadow Strike, full attack
Swift Action: either Shadow Blink, full attack or White Raven Tactics, full attack

So, it should be possible to get 24 attacks, but initator level requirements most likely will limit you to 16.

For those absolutely insane, I'm pretty sure the math just barely works out for a thri-kreen (or mutant sauhigian, either way, four arms) Dervish/Swordsage to end up with around 72 attacks for one round/day (4 arms with 4 attacks, 1 weapon of speed, snap kick, 3 full attacks, one of which is doubled because of A Thousand Cuts), but that's a level 20 +/- build that's not likely to be more than a math excercise.

2007-03-03, 06:15 PM
How about Druid 8 /Monk 6. Wildshape into a giant octopus. Headbutt/Unarmed strike with flurry for an additional two attacks?

2007-03-03, 10:13 PM
Fourteen, all of them.

The best I can think of is a Halfling Master Thrower with Palm Throw, Sneaky Shot and Weak spot.

Isn't there a thri-kreen Master Thrower build out there that gets more attacks?

Spank the Monkey also starts to click around ECL 14:


2007-03-03, 11:38 PM
18/36 attacks. Not sure how many get sneak.
The 2nd number relys on targets been adjacent.

Human (gross feat shortage)
Monk 11
Flurry of Blows, Evasion, None of the Bonus feats impact the build in the 1st 14 levels, but IIRC there is something that gives you AOO with ranged weapons, and you can go for a Ranged Trip or Disarm option as this build progresses
Master Thrower 3 (Palm Throw, Two with 1 blow)
Quick Draw, Improved Evasion

Feats taken -
Weapon Focus - Shuriken (prereq)
Point Blank Shot (prereq)
Precise Shot (prereq)
Rapid Shot

Equip -
Boots of Speed.

BAB 11 give you 3 attacks.
Flurry of Blows give you +2 Atks at full BAB
Boots of Speed gives you +1 Atk at full BAB
Rapid Shot give you +1 Atk at full BAB, -2 all Atks
TWF gives you +1 Atk at full BAB, -2 all Atks
Imp TWF gives you +1 Atk at -5 BAB,
Palm Throw gives you 2 Atks with each Atk
2 With 1 Shot allows you to hit two targets with one shot if the targets are adjacent.

So, taking into account feats but not Stats or Weapon Enchantments, at 30' range -
x2 all Attacks for Palm Throw,
x2 again if adjacent targets

Progression -
+2 Levels Master Thrower - Weak Spot (you've already given up your Str bonus with Palm Throw) or Trip Shot (stacks with the +4 bonus from Imp Trip feat from Monk 6)
Gain Crit Strike
+1 Exotic Weapon Master - Close-Quarters Ranged Combat (no AOOs with Exotic ranged weapons)
+1 Exotic Weapon Master - Ranged Disarm (if you went the Imp Dosarm route at Monk 6)
+1 Artificer - Infusion Weapon Augumentation, Personal (nothing beats having 50 Bane Shurikens).
Feats - Greater TWF
If possible also get Weapon Specalisation. 4 Fighter or 3 Pious Templar both work, but there are probably other ways.


2007-03-03, 11:43 PM
Master Thrower based builds work well with that. Yes, thri-keen is especially good at this.

Don't forget eventually Master Thrower can touch-attack anything their size or smaller.

I'd suggest thri-keen Master Thrower myself, though I'd point out that Monks get flurry of blows and Sai is a monk weapon which can be thrown (shuriken are too but they're treated as ammunition, which gets annoying to keep track of). Monk 11 + Master Thrower 3 grants the most attacks, though they're not all touch attacks till master thrower gets to 5.

Though thri-keen do have 2 racial hit dice and level adjustment, but if you allow the LA buyoff variant then it's a good build.

Regardless, monk 11/master-thrower3 with sai's gives you:
5 attacks with 2 thrown sai's each in your good hand, 3 attacks with 2 thrown sai's in your off-hand(s). 16 total.

This assumes that sai's are allowed with the Palm-Throw feature, it only specifically states shuriken, darts, daggers, but says DM's may allow others. Sai's are essentially blunt daggers, so most sane DM's would probably allow it. Else use shuriken. 16 sneak-attack-able attacks, 28 if thri-keen.

Thri-keen could also stand 10ft away, make a full attack with those, then 5ft step up and get in 4 claws and a poison bite.

*EDIT: though come to think of it you get 11 base attack at 14, so you'll have to wait till 15 to get another two-weapon-fighting feat. So I guess that bumps you down to 2 attacks of 2 weapons per off-hand. Still, that's 14 for a standard humanoid. Eventually you get 6 attacks of 2 thrown weapons in a primary hand and 3 per secondary hand. And of course epic levels you can get perfect two weapon fighting (unless it's house-ruled in pre-epic) and get a massive full attack. A thri-keen monk/master-thrower could then get in a whopping 48 throws.

*EDIT EDIT: I see above there was just a post on a monk/master thrower. Boots of Speed is a good idea for any build...thri-keen with them would just be insane...

2007-03-04, 02:26 AM
You have to be careful with the thri kreen thing.

Multiweapon fighting doesn't work that same as two weapon fighting, as I recall. You can't get more then one extra attack with the offhands... you just have MORE offhands.

Unless theres some other book i don't have that breaks that, which is very possible.

2007-03-04, 02:44 AM
Improved Multi Weapon Fighting and Greater Multi Weapon Fighting are in the Epic Level Handbook, Deities and Demigods, and Savage Species. I don't have my books on hand so I can't tell you which of these books say they are epic feats and which don't.

2007-03-04, 02:50 AM
Nvm my previous post, the ELH is in the SRD. According to d20srd Improved and Greater MWF are general feats(and thus can be taken by non epic characters) even though they are in an book mostly about epic characters.

Thus a Thri Keen 2/Monk 11/X 9 (using LA buy off, also monster hd don't count towards when you start epic bab) will have a bab of 19.25 at lvl 22.

That gives him 4 Attack Primary Hand
3 Attacks hand 2
3 Attacks hand 3
3 Attacks hand 4
2 with Flurry
1 with haste

As soon as he gets the epic feat Perfect Multiweapon Fighting he gains 3 more attacks

2007-03-04, 02:53 AM
Throwing in that ToB manuever from Tigerclaw and you can add another 4 attacks. (can't recall its name want to say its mongoose something).

Monk 11+Belt 5+Superior Unarmed Strike 4=Monk 20 damage.
Improved Natural Attack increases the damage by one step.
Greater Mighty Wallop will increase the damage by 4 steps.
2d10 increased 4 steps is 12d8 damage if I recall (DMG p28)

2007-03-04, 03:06 AM
Another option is a Elan Monk/Psionic Fist
Use Elan for the aberration type. Get the draconic template for 1 LA buy it off. Take Rapidstrike Claws. Manifest Claws of the Beast (for more damage), and claws of the vampire for healing.

Do unarmed strikes with your feats, secondary natural attacks with your claws, follow by rapidstrike claws.

The Orange Zergling
2007-03-04, 04:41 AM
You'd have to ask Fax Celestis for the formula, but I believe he made a thri-kreen monk with upwards of 12 attacks.

Bears With Lasers
2007-03-04, 05:12 AM
The Fang of Lolth PrC gets you extra attacks, but screws up your character. Then there's the Insectile template. An Insectile Thri-Kreen Monk/Dervish/Fang of Lolth... um, yeah.

2007-03-04, 05:18 AM
Master Thrower based builds work well with that. Yes, thri-keen is especially good at this.

Don't forget eventually Master Thrower can touch-attack anything their size or smaller.

Correction - Master Throwe gets Touch-attack against their size or Larger.

Remember that Boots of Speed only gives you +1 Weapon Atk, so Thri-keen gain no more from this than any other build does.

Regarding Throwing Sai: If you go to the Exotic Weaponmaster Ranged Disarm option you get a +8 to your Disarm - +4 Improved Disarm (from Monk 6), +4 from Sai.


2007-03-04, 05:35 PM
AFAIR the extra arms from the Insectile template don't add attacks.

2007-03-04, 06:40 PM
What about an anthropomorphic squid?

2007-03-04, 07:15 PM
The simplest way to get a ton of attacks is to Polymorph into a Hydra. (Which is why a lot of DM's ban polymorph). Or you could have a friend cast Fly on you and then Wildshape into a Giant Squid.

If that doesn't work, get a lot of natural attacks through feats, grafts, and prestige classes. You can always make secondary natural attacks in addition to your normal attack routine. So a Kobold Monk with the right feats could easily get his normal Flurry, plus claws, tail, bite, tentacles, slam, gore, etc.

Another way is through AoO abuse. Pick up Improved Trip, Knock-Down (Divine SRD), Karmic Strike (Comp Warrior), Robilar's Gambit (PHBII), and Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook).

Rob's Gambit gives you an AoO whenever someone strikes at you.
Karmic Strike gives you an AoO whenever someone hits you.
Double Strike allows you to make an attack with your primary and offhand weapon against the same target when they provoke an AoO.
Knock-Down grants you a free Trip attempt on any attack that deals 10+ points of damage, which will be followed up with a free AoO from Improved Trip.

So, they hit you once, you hit them 6 times. Pretty good ratio, especially if you pick up the Claws of the Vampire or Vampiric Blade psionic powers and a Wounding weapon. Just make sure your Dex is sky high.

For uber cheese, instead of Double Hit you can take the mounted combat tree, make a charge attack with a lance for *3 damage, and then use Ride By Attack to continue past as many enemies as you can, provoking AoO all the way.

Or there's always my old Pyro build, Flaming Homer: the Bowling Ball of Doom.


Overwhelming Attack Monk (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#monk) 2/Fighter 2/Psychic Warrior 2/Pyrokineticist 1/Warmind 5/Full BAB class X

Bonus Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Knock-Down.

Feats from levels: Cleave, Knockback, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Hold the Line.

Other Feats for Consideration: Overchannel (Always useful), Mage Slayer, Battle Jump, Robilar's Gambit.

Books: SRD, Complete Warrior, Races of Stone (Knockback), Unapproachable East (Battle Jump), PHBII (Robilar's Gambit).

Before combat, use the Expansion power on yourself to increase your reach.

Charge 10 feet into your enemy. Make a touch attack with your fire lash as a two-handed weapon (as it explicitly says you can in the FAQ). Transfer your full BAB to Leap Attack. Make sure that your initial enemy is close to you when you attack him if possible, as you want to keep your enemies in your threatened area each time you knock him back.

If you hit (you probably will) and deal more then 10 or more points of damage (you will) you get a free Trip attempt (from Knock-Down).

If your enemy is standing next to anyone, each attack also applies to them (Warmind Sweeping Strike). You will also get a free Trip attempt against him and a follow up attack (Improved Trip), which will also apply to someone standing next to him, until pretty much everyone in your threatened area has been hit multiple times and is prone.

Regardless of whether or not the Trip attempts succeed, you get a free Bull Rush attempt (Knockback, which requires that you be a Goliath) on each attack, applying your damage and Power Attack bonus to the opposed Str check.

This should allow you to push your enemy several spaces backwards. For each space you move your enemy backwards, you may also shift him one hex to the left or the right (Shock Trooper). If this pushes your enemy into the same hex as another enemy, you get a free Trip Attempt on each of them (Shock Trooper again - though if one of the enemies is already Prone from a successful Trip, you can't Trip him again).

Again, each successful Trip gets a free follow up attack, and each successful melee attack gets a free Bull Rush, which can start another Trip. And every melee attack can also apply to someone standing next to your enemy using Sweeping Strike.

Plus, if you kill someone (you will) you get a Cleave attack, which will also apply to whoever is standing next to them, and start the Attack+Trip+Attack+Bull Rush+Trip+Attack... combo, again.

If you're feeling really saucy, use Psionic Lion's Charge for a full attack.

If someone charges you (they pretty much have to in order reach you) you get a free AoO from Hold the Line, resolved immediately before the charge attack, in addition to the normal AoO you'd get for them moving through your threatened area.

If you don't like Goliath, you can drop the Bull Rush/Knockback combo and it'll still be a very strong Attack+Trip+Attack build. An Orc with the Headlong Rush feat (Races of Faerun) also works well.

You can even drop Pyro and just rely on Shock Trooper to hit, though doing so will lower your AC a lot. If you are Pyro, be sure to carry around a good magical reach weapon with the trip ability (Guisarme works fine) for when you come across enemies who are immune to fire. You should also buy a few magic items that are effective against flying enemies.

2007-03-04, 07:23 PM
Whisperknife is only available to halflings that's why i selected halfling. That and the fact that they get throwing bonuses, returning weapons return to them even after they moven and return up to twice per round.