Throwing feats?

[TheCrowing1432]

So I got bored one day and decided to look into hulking hurler and make a character based around that. As I was looking for relevant throwing related feats I found these.

Fling Ally
Fling Foe
Throw Anything.

Then theres the Hulking Hurler Class Feature which you get Really Throw Anything.


My confusion arises when a lot of these feats dont really make a lot of sense.

Fling Ally and Fling Foe are two seperate feats that are basically the same thing, and according to the feat decription they dont actually do any damage, you just toss them. SO why would there be two seperate feats for largely the same thing?

And even more confusing, why would you need a feat for this type of action at all. No where in the rules does it say you CANT throw an enemy after you've grappled them. I mean as long as you're strong enough you can throw them, right?

And then theres the hulking Hurlers Really Throw Anything, where you can pick up well...anything you can pick up as a light load and throw it. If you're strong enough to pick up a creature as a light load (which you probably are) then couldnt that be qualified for it? What if that creature is an ally, or an enemy?


I dunno these throwing feats all seem kinda weird to me.

[SciChronic]

thats because thrown weapons didn't really receive much attention in 3.5, and without some cheesing, they pretty much lose viability past level 5.

[TheCrowing1432]

thats because thrown weapons didn't really receive much attention in 3.5, and without some cheesing, they pretty much lose viability past level 5.

hulking hurler and quickdraw lets you throw weapons good as any archer.

[SciChronic]

to get real good use of hulking hurler you need to cheese a bit i.e.: half centaur to double carry weight, and a custom made weapon super weight object to toss around.

Comparing to an archer isnt that great since archery falls behind melee and magic, and getting a weapon to deal decent damage puts you under the 30ft range which is arguably the best part about being an "archer."

[Delcor]

to get real good use of hulking hurler you need to cheese a bit "

Personally I found it difficult to make a balanced hulking hurler. Every time I tried with as little cheese as possible and I just ended up out damaging most of the party.

[Vogonjeltz]

You may want to stick to brutal throw and the like.

Thrown weapons are ok, they let melee characters focus on str solely and still get some range, so for that purpose, not terrible. It get better if you're throwing a returning great axe or the like.

[Jowgen]

Most throwing related feats are sub-optimal. Making throwing a viable tactic depends mostly on class abilities and equipment. Hulking Hurler, Master Thrower and Whisperknife are the main ones, as far as I know. For 10k there are gloves in one of the faerun books that give everything throwing and returning.

[SciChronic]

the issue with returning weapons, is that at most you can only use as many hands as you have, because they all return at the start of the round and if you threw more than you have hands then the rest will just fall to the floor. The best option for multiple throws in items is the gloves of endless javelins. They deal +1 javelin damage as force damage. Otherwise you'd have to go bloodstorm blade.

[heavyfuel]

What you want matey, is a Freaking (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-eberron--10/boomerang-daze--254/) Boomerang (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-eberron--10/boomerang-ricochet--255/).

Add in Power Throw (much better if your DM is chill with the prerequisites), Master Thrower's Trip Shot and Weak Spot, you're now tripping and dazing on touch attacks. And if someone else is nearby, they're also tripped and dazed.

As for fixing throw weapons, ask your DM for "magical gloves". It works just like a magical bow, but for throw weapons. There zero reason to not allow something like this, and makes throwers viable after everyone starts getting those magical weapons. (Bonus points for convincing the DM to also fix TWF, this will make you almost on par with the charger or the guy shooting 20 arrows per round)

[Curmudgeon]

And then theres the hulking Hurlers Really Throw Anything, where you can pick up well...anything you can pick up as a light load and throw it. If you're strong enough to pick up a creature as a light load (which you probably are) then couldnt that be qualified for it? What if that creature is an ally, or an enemy?
Throwing a creature isn't the issue; getting them in your hands first is. I know of only one way to do that in D&D, and that's if you're grappling that character. So successfully start a grapple, and then you've got them in hand and can throw them using Really Throw Anything.

[Urpriest]

Throwing a creature isn't the issue; getting them in your hands first is. I know of only one way to do that in D&D, and that's if you're grappling that character. So successfully start a grapple, and then you've got them in hand and can throw them using Really Throw Anything.

Not just a grapple, though. If you want them in your hands specifically, you'd have to take a -20 penalty (and have Improved Grab IIRC). Otherwise, by default, you use your whole body to grapple your opponent, and thus probably can't throw them.

[Curmudgeon]

You're probably right about that. Of course, I wouldn't build a grappling character without Improved Grab anyway; that omission would make it only a half-hearted attempt.

[Vogonjeltz]

Not just a grapple, though. If you want them in your hands specifically, you'd have to take a -20 penalty (and have Improved Grab IIRC). Otherwise, by default, you use your whole body to grapple your opponent, and thus probably can't throw them.

There's also the Scorpion's Grasp feat. Only works on creatures smaller than you though.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I'm just gonna say that Fling Enemy is bloody amazing in any ship-based campaign. Or any campaign that takes place in bars.

[Darrin]

Fling Ally and Fling Foe are two seperate feats that are basically the same thing, and according to the feat decription they dont actually do any damage, you just toss them. SO why would there be two seperate feats for largely the same thing?


The mechanics for picking up the creature you want to throw have to be different because an ally is actively cooperating with you to be thrown, and an enemy is actively resisting you. For Fling Ally, picking up a cooperative ally is a move action, and the distance you can throw is based on a range increment. For Fling Enemy, picking up is part of a grapple, and the distance thrown is determined by the grapple check. Given how different the two mechanics are, it somewhat makes sense to have them as separate feats (although you might argue they would work better as two options under a Tactical feat).



And even more confusing, why would you need a feat for this type of action at all. No where in the rules does it say you CANT throw an enemy after you've grappled them. I mean as long as you're strong enough you can throw them, right?


The grapple rules are difficult to understand... they restrict what you can do while you're in a grapple, and "throw opponent" isn't one of them. You could use Improved Grab (or Scorpion's Grasp) to start a grapple but keep yourself out of the grapple. Then, assuming you're strong enough to lift your opponent, you could throw them as an improvised thrown weapon.



And then theres the hulking Hurlers Really Throw Anything, where you can pick up well...anything you can pick up as a light load and throw it. If you're strong enough to pick up a creature as a light load (which you probably are) then couldnt that be qualified for it? What if that creature is an ally, or an enemy?


Again, you need to be outside the grapple to use a thrown weapon, because inside a grapple you're very restricted with what weapons you can attack with. But if you do have Improved Grab and Really Throw Anything, then this is the best way to throw people around in the same round, since you can use all your iterative attacks for grabbing/throwing. Fling Ally/Enemy requires you to use a standard action, so you can only throw one creature a round.

D&D is quirky in that the projectile itself doesn't take any damage. You can make up for this a little bit by throwing your enemy straight up or to a square that's above the floor. They take falling damage when they arrive at the target square and then fall to the floor. The other way I got around this for my King of Pong (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?107248) build was I use War Mind's Sweeping Strike to hit both the target and the projectile.