RWBY IV: I Love These Guys [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 09:55 AM

http://i.imgur.com/qnVaWes.jpg
Hello and welcome to the 4th iteration of the RWBY threads!

RWBY is an western made, anime style, 3d computer animation, freely available, web series, with variable length episodes, created by Monty Oum (http://www.youtube.com/user/montyoum/videos) for Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com).

RWBY is pronounced "ruby" and is an acronym for the four main team members: Red, White, Black, Yellow - aka Ruby, Weiss, Blake, Yang. All of the main characters have some folklore, fairy tale, or historical reference, but are very much their own characters and are not based on that reference. In addition, every character (with the only known exception of Ozpin) and team name is based on a colour. While some are obvious, others need to be traced back a fair way to find something that is associated with a colour.

Watch:
First Episode: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?id=7872&v=more) YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sGiE10zNQM)
Latest Episode: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?sid=rwby&v=more)
Playlist: YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUBVPK8x-XMhCW2fW7ZYlD9MHjvmT8IGK), Rooster Teeth (Volume 1 (http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?sid=rwby&v=more&s=1), Volume 2 (http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?sid=rwby&v=more&s=2))

Trailers:
Red: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?id=6052&v=more) YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYW2GmHB5xs)
White: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?id=6934&v=more) YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt9vl8iAN5Q)
Black: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?id=7194&v=more) YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImKCt7BD4U4)
Yellow: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?id=7615&v=more) YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCw_aAS7vWI)

Wikis:
Wikia (http://rwby.wikia.com/wiki/RWBY_Wiki)

Previous threads:
0 - Rwby (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?275554-Rwby)
1 - RWBY (Ruby) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286363-RWBY-%28Ruby%29)
2 - RWBY 2sday: Birdie, NO!!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?304358-RWBY-2sday-Birdie-NO!!!)
3 - RWBY III: These kids just keep getting weirder. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?325186-RWBY-III-These-kids-just-keep-getting-weirder)

New episodes are available to the public first thing every Friday on Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com) at midnight (12:00am) GMT This equates to Friday morning in places like Australia (e.g. 10:00am in Queensland) and Thursday evening in places like the US. Free members can access the new video 30 minutes early (sign up here (http://roosterteeth.com/members/signupAccount.php)), while paid subscribers can access it a total of 4 hours early. It is then uploaded to YouTube a week later.

Volume 1 of RWBY has finished, and Volume 2 is underway!

Rawhide's recommendation:
Watch Episode 1 first, followed by the four trailers in order, then all remaining episodes starting with Episode 2 in order. You can skip all remaining trailers (and bonus footage, such as opening titles animation) as they are your more traditional trailers made from scenes from the show, while the first four trailers are new footage and include story elements not included in the series proper.

Notes on terminology:
Throughout these threads you will see people refer to things as a volume, season, chapter, and episode. There is currently no functional difference between a volume and a season, so these two terms are currently synonymous. In most of their material, Rooster Teeth refer to a season as a volume.

While it is largely synonymous, there is, however, an important distinction between chapter and episode that you should be aware of to prevent confusion. For Volume 1, 10 episodes (termed "chapters") were planned. However, in order to release one episode per week to the internet, Rooster Teeth opted to slice some of these chapters into two parts. This resulted in the 10 original chapters (released on the DVD and BluRay in their original 10 episode form) being split into 16 episodes on the web. This can make some things confusing when referring to the episode numbers between different mediums. Rooster Teeth have promised not to do this for Volume 2.

Chapter

Title

Episodes

1

Ruby Rose

1

2

The Shining Beacon

2 & 3

3

The First Step

4 & 5

4

The Emerald Forest

6 & 7

5

Players and Pieces

8

6

The Badge and The Burden

9 & 10

7

Jaunedice

11 & 12

8

Forever Fall

13 & 14

9

The Stray

15

10

Black & White

16

Official note on spoilers:

After a new episode is posted at Rooster Teeth's site, discussion about that episode will be considered spoilers for no less than one week, and all discussion about it must be done in spoiler boxes.
Anything released prior to that (RTX, leaks, etc.) will be considered spoilers until no earlier than one week after the official reveal in the episode it relates to on Rooster Teeth's site.
All spoiler boxes must indicate clearly in the spoiler box's title (i.e. [spoiler=title]) what episode it is spoiling (even when replying).
This period of one week is a minimum amount only. You should consider using spoiler boxes for longer, particularly for larger spoilers.
It is recommended, but not mandatory, that you consider using spoiler boxes for older information to assist new fans still catching up. Again, please indicate the episode in the spoiler box's title.

The YouTube videos, for one, are a week behind, and on top of new people walking into the thread from YouTube without knowing, we have people who cannot watch it from the official site. Keeping them labelled like this is important for those behind so that they know what is safe to open and what isn't. When replying to spoilers without a title, it becomes difficult to determine which episode it was referring to. e.g. "Was the original post about the current episode or a previous episode but the discussion is still ongoing?"

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 09:58 AM

First of all, that graph for the episode/chapter break down for Volume 1? That's a good idea, nice one Rawhide.

Anyway, lets do it! RWBY episode 2!

Episode 2: Welcome to Beacon (actually the episode title. Still don't know what episode 1 of this volume is called :smalltongue:)

We start with a relatively nice overhead shot of Beacon, rising up to it's tower where Ozpin works and....I just...his tower is "half of a clock tower". There is one half of a clock face on it, with the other half just gone. This is a really stupid design choice.

Anyway, Glinda's with Ozpin, and she's complaining someone named Ironwood is annoying and "takes his work when he travels". Alright. No idea who Ironwood is, probably a teacher, and based on the name he's probably gray colour, and has some tie into a myth (I'm tempted to say he's The Huntsmen from Red Riding Hood, but that's bias from Fables breaching through).

Ozpin says that Ironwood runs a academy and a military...alright. He then says the ships flying around are an eyesore, with relation to Ironwood. So...Ironwood's the head master of Wukong's school and he keeps a ton of fighter jets with him at all times? That's what I'm getting from this.

Then Ironwood shows up! He's the dude from the opening that is with Penny and the other robot friends. So I was right that he IS gray in colour, but I'm guessing he's Ghepetto or something. Or that it doesn't matter what fairy tale thing and I'm just wasting my time thinking about it.

First name James, last name Ironwood. Alright. Fantasy name, gotcha. His voice acting isn't too terrible either. He's kind of a sleaze bag though, disgusting Glinda with his "it's been FAR too long since we've met" comment. She leaves, and Ozpin asks why he's here. And...wait, hold up. He asks Ironwood why he came from Atlas (their school) to watch the Vital Festival. Because the headmasters don't usually go do this. Why the hell not? This is a PRETTY important thing, you'd think all the headmaster's would get together to actually...you know, do headmastery things. This honestly just feels lazy, so they don't have to make other headmasters. And probably also to cover up some plot holes, because if the headmaster's don't show up they can't ask Mr So and So if this team or that team are actually part of their school.

Ironwood reaches into his model and pulls out a beer flask. His jacket doesn't even move an inch despite it allegidily being inside of it. Alright. Also Ironwood only wears one glove because REASONS. Probably has a robot hand.

Oh hey some actual development for the world. Crow said something that's got them all worried that the peace and harmony will be destroyed or something, so Ironwood brought all his army jets as a show of force. But Ozpin says they should try doing this more tactfully. I am really glad for this, because it develops the world. It shows that the people in charge know something is going to go down. They don't know what, and we don't know why they believe Crow, but something is clearly going to happen, and it's clear they're preparing for it.

Meanwhile team RWBY is playing poker in the library. No highschool student has ever used the library for it's intended purposes. I dislike that on principle, at least in real life. Oh, okay, it's some generic fantasy card game that leads to them parodying silly card game anime tropes. How funny. Oh wait not this is terrible :smallannoyed:

Yang randomly has a swirly pattern on his finger because other anime's do that when we get an extreme closeup of their single outstretched finger. Oh my god why is this happening this is the worst ****ing thing.

LOL TRAP CARD REFERENCE LOOK AT HOW FUNNY WE ARE GUYS COMEDY JOKES.

COMEDY JOKES!!!

Meawhile with a team I actually give a **** about, Nora is sleeping on a book with a big cartoon sleep bubble. Ren's...being Ren, and Jaune and Pyrrha are reading comic books. Alright. They ARE teenagers, comic books are a thing they'd read. I can get behind that.

...I'll admit I like the sight gag of Ren turning the page onto Nora's head like he doesn't even care. That is how stoic Ren is. He...kind of needs more then just that, but for now it's good.

Every second spent on this card game is another second of wanting to gouge my ears and eyes out. They're really laying on thick the "here are all a bunch of generic anime tropes that we are doing to prove that this is an anime guys!" ****, and it's really annoying. Also Yang's breasts where jiggling for like 5 seconds, someone forgot how to model again.

Also the waterfalls of tears that are on Weiss and Ruby are clipping through their outfits. This is really terrible.

Okay Jaune continues to prove he's the real protagonist by strait up calling Weiss "ice queen" which is awesome. He brags a little about being called a "natural born leader" and though this isn't really deserved at this point in the series, it'll be interesting (if more pointless time wasting) to see how he handles this esoteric poopy card game risk combination.

...****ing Weiss told team JNPR that Blake's a faunus. Weiss you are the worst person in existence.

Oh hey Wukong showed up. And he called everyone losers. I get it, he's a jokey, ribbing person. Guess what if someone called me loser a bunch, doesn't matter how much friends he is with my friends, I'd stop ****ing talking to him :smallannoyed:

Also everyone just sort of knows who Wukong is for some reason. Wukong says he's here to introduce bluehaired douche, and said Douche said "aren't libraries usually for reading?" to which Ren suddenly shouts "THANK YOU!" and this is actually really funny. The only reason I didn't actually LAUGH laugh is because I'm still steaming about all the other terrible comedy this episode so far.

Wukong says "Shut up, don't be a nerd" and I swear to god I don't understand how anyone thinks Wukong is a good character, let alone a good person. Bluehair says "upupup, intellectual." which also bothers me because just because you read books doesn't mean you're an intellectual.

He's Neptune. I don't care. Neptune tries to hit on Weiss and it works sort of. Blake then rage quits the game, and we cut to night where she's curled up in a ball in her room having audio flashbacks to all the Faunus and Whitefang stuff from last volume. This segways into a flashback to the night they messed up Roman's plans at the end of Volume 1. We also see Ozpin's weapon, which is a cane sword. Still calling that Roman is Ozpin or at least has some connection.

Ozpin mentions that in order to get into Beacon you need to pass a riggerous entrance exam. This begs the question of how Jaune got in. They will never touch on this because "Jaune snuck in" and that's all they really care about saying.

Blake says that since she was born outside the kingdoms, she had to fight to survive every day. This is further painting the picture that the three/four kingdoms are all safe zones in what is an apocolyptic nightmare world, to me at least, but we've yet to see any evidence of this (like when they went to those two forests).

The two have a rather intense discussion, and I have to applaud this. See, this is how you DO CHARACTERS! This is setting up more of Blake's back story, setting up a mystery of "maybe Blake knows more then she's letting on" and helps develop the world. Stuff like this should of happened much earlier. For what it's worth I think Blake is lying when she says she's got nothing else to tell him.

Flashback ends, Ruby Yang and Weiss come in. Yang is angry that the new guy beat them. They're being subtle and vague so we think it's Neptune but I'm guessing it's actually Jaune because that would be good writing. Blake goes to leave and Weiss is like "stop, you're been quiet late- ****ING HELL. Twice I've accidently navigated off the video because Rooster Teeth's site is stupid.

Anyway, Weiss says Blake has been quiet, antisocial, and moody. Yang makes a joke about how that's just how Blake is and I'm not amused because that's actually kind of rude. At first this seems like Weiss is actually concerned for her friend but due to the sudden animated white background with snowflakes on it and Weiss doing a triple flip jump to land infront of Blake and point at her throat that it's clear this is just another stupid generic anime trope **** they're using because "lol anime look at how funny we are". Barf.

Blake says her problem is that...she doesn't know how everyone can be so calm when it's clear the confirmed terrorists are plotting something really big. This is COMPLETELY ACCURATE and how an actual person would react to this situation. I approve of this so hard I don't even care that the models are so **** that their noses are virtually invisible when viewed from the front. Also Blake's hand bandages are clipping through her skin.

Slight problem with this scene. I'm sure Blake's reasoning for why they should be concerned is that they're huntsmen, they SHOULD be concerned, but...you're students. This isn't your fight. You're training, but like Weiss says, this IS a job for the police and the professional hunters. This is not your fight, weather you like it or not.

****ing SHUT THE **** UP RUBY OH MY GOD. She ended all this actually really good scene by having a super fast, poorly animated and lip synced scene where she says they should all take a vote on weather they should be the youngest hunter team to take down a huge crime syndacate. Which basically proves that all the good stuff in this scene is just coincidental, or that someone in the writing staff has no ****ing clue how to write.

Everyone agree's with Ruby's plan because this is terrible, and Ruby is sad that no one explicitly said aye like she asked. Okay that's kind of funny. Ruby forgot her board game though so she runs off to get it. Outside she runs into...Emerald and Mercury, who're dressed up in school clothes. Boy it sure is a good thing none of the HEadmasters from other school's showed up to confirm if the "students" are theirs or not. ****ing stupid.

CINDER IS ALSO HERE. CINDER'S LIKE A GROWN ****ING WOMAN, NO! She's NOT passing for a TEENAGER. This is bull****. And who's their fourth team mate to round out the team? Roman?

...Ruby doesn't immediately recognize Cinder. I'm okay with this because she only ever saw her as a shadow lady but she should at least recognize the voice.

Also, their school uniforms have arm bands on them. Subtle, Monty :smallannoyed:

Credit song is half decent. Credit's involves a picture that I think is fan art but I'm not sure. Yup, it's fanart.

HEY! HEY GUY WHO MADE THE FANART! Hope you realize that these guys are making money off of something YOU drew. If they don't pay you a cut sue them. You are within your right to do so, unless you're a ****ing idiot and let them use it for free.

Also the fan art, even if it's not THAT super well drawn, is still eons better then the poser models.

That's the episode! My thoughts?

IT was better then episode 1, that's for sure. But...there was so much stupid bull****. The card game was a waste of time and that entire scene was overloaded with "here is a bunch of tropes from anime. We are throwing them in even if it doesn't fit with our series because they are in anime and thus we need to. Look at how funny we are lol trap card reference we're funny comedy mans". Just ****ing stop it. Don't use tropes SOLELY FOR THE SAKE OF USING TROPES. THIS IS NOT HOW YOU WRITE. However, as bad as the card game scene was, it did give us the names of all the kingdoms, and told us a bit about them. It's a good way of getting exposition across without coming off as "this is clearly exposition", I just wish it wasn't hidden behind something so unfunny and annoying.

The scenes with Blake, specifically her flashback, and the small bit with Ironwood, where good for RWBY. They served to show growth in the world and characters (not even remotely enough but we'll make do with what we've got). It's clear that Ozpin has good intentions, as does Ironwood. But it's also clear their good intentions do not match and what is good for them may not be good for others. Blake's clearly hiding something, and it's giving a interesting bit of depth to her character. What could it be that she's still hiding? Something she's hiding that even Ozpin can't figure out just by looking at her. It's an interesting bit of character development, and is actually a development! Contrast this with Wukong and Neptune, who continue to be a flaming ******* and a generic douchebag "suave smart guy" character. Wukong's team is bad and three of our four main characters are getting basically zero respect or character growth. I'll admit that this is better then Volume 1, however.

I swear to god I'll be more positive, but it's hard to be when the positive is surrounded by negative. It's hard to be super positive when the positive things are "basic world and character building" and it's hard to elaborate on that beyond "well, this is literally a requirement for a story to work, so good job doing it." I'm really glad they're doing it, but we needed this stuff in higher quantities and earlier. It's much easier to tear into something for clear use of "tropes for the sake of tropes" and so on. I do still think there is a lot of potential, and the good parts of this episode 100% showed that maybe they do have the ability to do this. Now we just have to wait for the part where they DO.

Mrc.

2014-08-01, 09:58 AM

Yay! We're back! Bring on more insightful discussion!

NineThePuma

2014-08-01, 09:59 AM

Can you not lock prior threads unless they're being posted in past link? I had a minor panic attack when the thread was locked for no apparent reason >>;;

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 10:02 AM

Can you not lock prior threads unless they're being posted in past link? I had a minor panic attack when the thread was locked for no apparent reason >>;;

I was closing the book dramatically... :smallwink:

Calemyr

2014-08-01, 10:04 AM

NineThePuma

2014-08-01, 10:06 AM

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 10:08 AM

Neptune strikes me as an attempt to show what Jaune would be like if things worked for him. Everything about him screams "the lucky Jaune" to me. He does the same gleaming teeth smile in the first episode, apparently dominates at tactical games (Jaune wouldn't be called "new guy" - he's probably not even called "vomit boy" anymore), and calls Weiss "Snow Angel" - and she smiles at him. You could see Jaune notices it, too. Neptune is being presented to be everything Jaune is, but better at all of it. Just as the poor kid finally gets something under his feet, it looks like it's being pulled out from under him.

So, yes, Neptune is likable. But there's also a subtly sinister tone to it. If he's not Jaune's rival (if not outright enemy) by the end of the volume, I'll be surprised.

Not seeing how he's likeable in the slightest.

Considering that locking of a thread is usually a sign that the thread has gone past the boundaries of the forum rules and is being examined by the staff so that infractions can be handed out, I think -not- giving people heart attacks might be more valuable than dramatic flare.

Calm your butt, thread's are also locked once they reach 50 pages and the new thread is made or being made.

Ronnoc

2014-08-01, 10:09 AM

I actually like Weiss being included in the anime silliness because it indicates that she's changing as a character. This show uses these tropes to highlight moments of levity, circa volume one Weiss was only drawn into them when the focus was on someone else (usually Ruby or Jaune). The fact that she's the one initiating anime comedy mode shows that over the course of the semester she is beginning to take herself a little less seriously.

NineThePuma

2014-08-01, 10:09 AM

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 10:13 AM

Actually, prior to this just happening, I have never seen a 50 page thread actually get locked. I was a regular poster in the Pokemon thread and am a regular poster in the League of Legends thread, both of which get lots of posts pretty quick.

Noted, just remember to take a deep breath and not over react when something surprising happens. We don't need friends getting hurt because a thread they like got locked and they had a heart attack.

I actually like Weiss being included in the anime silliness because it indicates that she's changing as a character. This show uses these tropes to highlight moments of levity, circa volume one Weiss was only drawn into them when the focus was on someone else (usually Ruby or Jaune). The fact that she's the one initiating anime comedy mode shows that over the course of the semester she is beginning to take herself a little less seriously.

Remember to spoil stuff :smallwink:

As for what you've seen: I can kind of see that, but it doesn't seem like Weiss's character to do that stuff, she's doing it purely because someone has to and she'd be funnier to do it. And again, the "lol anime tropes" stuff isn't good in the slightest.

Prime32

2014-08-01, 10:20 AM

Wukong says "Shut up, don't be a nerd" and I swear to god I don't understand how anyone thinks Wukong is a good character, let alone a good person.Because abs, duh. :smalltongue:

That's the episode! My thoughts? IT was better then episode 1, that's for sure. But...there was so much stupid bull****. The card game was a waste of time and that entire scene was overloaded with "here is a bunch of tropes from anime. We are throwing them in even if it doesn't fit with our series because they are in anime and thus we need to. Look at how funny we are lol trap card reference we're funny comedy mans". Just ****ing stop it. Don't use tropes SOLELY FOR THE SAKE OF USING TROPES. THIS IS NOT HOW YOU WRITE. However, as bad as the card game scene was, it did give us the names of all the kingdoms, and told us a bit about them. It's a good way of getting exposition across without coming off as "this is clearly exposition", I just wish it wasn't hidden behind something so unfunny and annoying.Sometimes RWBY feels like the writing equivalent of the "Such plentiful organs!" scene from Invader Zim.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 10:23 AM

Because abs, duh. :smalltongue:

Sometimes RWBY feels like the writing equivalent of the "Such plentiful organs!" scene from Invader Zim.

For some people that is a serious answer and makes me upset.

Never seen it. That scene, at least. I've seen just a little bit of Invader Zim.

Calemyr

2014-08-01, 10:26 AM

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 10:28 AM

The "rigorous testing" is for people who lack the traditional training, as a means of opening enrollment to a larger pool of applicants. Blake never went to a combat school, she doesn't have any means of qualifying for entry except through this testing. Jaune didn't go to a combat school either, but he obtained a fake transcript that said that not only did he go to one, but he scored well enough to qualify - no need for the special case testing. So Jaune gets in without a problem while Blake has to take the test.

That is not what Ozpin said. He said that to get into the school, you needed to go through rigorous testing. Most students have combat school knowledge, WHICH MEANS THEY ARE PREPARED FOR SAID TESTING. It'd be like if Harvard needed you to do a math test to get into it. Kids who studied math wouldn't get a free pass, they'd have to take the math test. But they'd be more prepared then "random child off the street".

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 10:29 AM

This begs the question

I know this is how it's commonly used, but I should point out that it is not technically correct. See the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

...Ruby doesn't immediately recognize Cinder. I'm okay with this because she only ever saw her as a shadow lady but she should at least recognize the voice.

What voice? Cinder never spoke.

---

Why do you always say "this is not how you write"? I propose an alternative: Maybe it's not that kind of series. This isn't a pure drama series where everything must be serious, it's a slapstick comedy drama. It has a lighthearted comedic tone (where inclusion of all the tropes make perfect sense), with dramatic elements.

Hawkflight

2014-08-01, 10:31 AM

Plerumque

2014-08-01, 10:31 AM

Personally, I think I'd like the cheesier scenes more if they didn't try to keep up the constant stream of jokes so much. They do let us see another side of the characters and it's nice to have a bit of levity to break up the drama, but if they focused more on what they can tell us about the characters they would be better. Even as-is, I still think it's good to have them.

Prime32

2014-08-01, 10:32 AM

Never seen it. That scene, at least. I've seen just a little bit of Invader Zim.
Zim has a medical exam coming up. To prevent being exposed as an alien, he starts stealing organs from other students and swallowing them. Deciding that "more organs = more human" he goes on to take far more than he needs, until he's morbidly obese and occasionally coughs up spleens. In the end the nurse looks down his throat and declares him extra-healthy for having "such plentiful organs".

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 10:34 AM

I know this is how it's commonly used, but I should point out that it is not technically correct. See the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

What voice? Cinder never spoke.

---

Why do you always say "this is not how you write"? I propose an alternative: Maybe it's not that kind of series. This isn't a pure drama series where everything must be serious, it's a slapstick comedy drama. It has a lighthearted comedic tone (where inclusion of all the tropes make perfect sense), with dramatic elements.

Ah, I hadn't known that, thanks.

I forgot that. Hopefully when Cinder reveals her powers Ruby will remember getting facestomped by it.

No there's a big difference between "it's not that kind of series" and what I'm saying. There is no series that should include tropes for the sake of tropes. Trope's are neither bad nor good, it's how you use them, and "hey, other anime does this stuff, so lets just throw in all these things other anime do to be more anime" is a wrong use. That is not how you write, and it ruins what integrity your work should have, be it a comedy or drama or a mix of the two or something else entirely. Putting in tropes because "the genre uses these tropes" is wrong, especially if it clashes with the style, and I feel it does and did.

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 10:35 AM

Considering that locking of a thread is usually a sign that the thread has gone past the boundaries of the forum rules and is being examined by the staff so that infractions can be handed out, I think -not- giving people heart attacks might be more valuable than dramatic flare.

No. The closing of a thread is not the sign that a thread has gone past the boundaries of the forum. There are many reasons why a thread will get closed, and 50 pages is one of them. After a new thread is created, and the link to it is created, the old thread is usually closed. This is especially true with Random Banter. In this case, I was just able to do both at the same time, rather than there being a delay.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 10:36 AM

Zim has a medical exam coming up. To prevent being exposed as an alien, he starts stealing organs from other students and swallowing them. Deciding that "more organs = more human" he goes on to take far more than he needs, until he's morbidly obese and occasionally coughs up spleens. In the end the nurse looks down his throat and declares him extra-healthy for having "such plentiful organs".

That is 100% accurate to what I'm saying. Also hilarious.

Reverent-One

2014-08-01, 10:39 AM

No there's a big difference between "it's not that kind of series" and what I'm saying. There is no series that should include tropes for the sake of tropes. Trope's are neither bad nor good, it's how you use them, and "hey, other anime does this stuff, so lets just throw in all these things other anime do to be more anime" is a wrong use. That is not how you write, and it ruins what integrity your work should have, be it a comedy or drama or a mix of the two or something else entirely. Putting in tropes because "the genre uses these tropes" is wrong, especially if it clashes with the style, and I feel it does and did.

And I'm going to have to disagree that they don't fit the series. Those sorts of things have pretty much been happening since episode 1, so I can't see how they clash with the style.

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 10:41 AM

No there's a big difference between "it's not that kind of series" and what I'm saying. There is no series that should include tropes for the sake of tropes. Trope's are neither bad nor good, it's how you use them, and "hey, other anime does this stuff, so lets just throw in all these things other anime do to be more anime" is a wrong use. That is not how you write, and it ruins what integrity your work should have, be it a comedy or drama or a mix of the two or something else entirely. Putting in tropes because "the genre uses these tropes" is wrong, especially if it clashes with the style, and I feel it does and did.

I disagree. These aren't "tropes for the sake of tropes", these are references to anime staples for the sake of humour. It's not because they want to be "more anime", it's because they (accurately) think it would be funny.

I also disagree with the notion that "this is not how you write". You can write exactly how you want to write. If people don't push boundaries, if people don't try to break old chains, our stories and other art forms would never evolve.

Math_Mage

2014-08-01, 10:42 AM

Good:
-Basic episode structure is again an appropriate mix of moods and character time and plot advancement.
-Ironwood gets clear character foundation, the way Emerald did, but more so. Explains what he's doing with Penny, anyway. That, IMO, means LaZodiac was right about the "teaching robots to be human" character arc Penny will go through, as part of establishing Ozpin's "children" culture as better than Ironwood's "fight a war" culture. Could be executed well or poorly. Keep an eye out.
-I guess 'the queen' has kept herself a sufficiently shadowy figure that Glinda didn't recognize Cinder as her in episode 1? Not many people have that kind of talent, but hey, good on Cinder for letting Roman be the visible face and potential fall guy.
-The deliberate ridiculousness of the tabletop game is a good mood-setter in the abstract, and yes, that thing with Yang messing around in Weiss' hand is an effective parody of how experienced players of a board/card game act around new players.
-Blake is paying attention. So is Ozpin.

Bad
-Dialogue remains clunky. Whatever. Might as well get used to it.
-Did we really have to see that interaction between Ironwood and Glinda? Lame "setting this character up as a bit of an ass" moment. The best they could do? I hope not.
-Playing melodrama for giggles in silly scenes gets old really quick.
-So do anime references and visual gags.
-Weiss really is a thoughtless ass. Both for revealing Blake's secret and in the 'talk' with Blake.
-Neptune...now that I think about it, I kind of agree with Calemyr that he might be this volume's foil for Jaune, but that still doesn't make him a character, just an irritant with a narrative point. For that matter, Sun's more of an irritant than a character in this episode.
-No, Ozpin, playing both sides of good-cop-bad-cop yourself is not how you get someone to open up, and you should know better.
-Did they really have to do a completely forced callback to the trailers? Just let it come out when it matters, like the train robbery from last volume. Ugh, am I really praising the narrative quality of last season in comparison to this season? This segue makes no sense at all.
-Weiss' argument against forming a vigilante squad precedes the suggestion to form a vigilante squad. Her "we're students!" line would make a little more sense if Blake wasn't a former White Fang member. "Our enemies" is a nonsense construction for Blake to use. Then the writers contrive an immediate about-face for Weiss. It's apparent that the dialogue is driven by the writers rather than the characters, and that takes me right out of the story.
-And can we give Yang something to do?
-Cinder & co. sneaking in as exchange students is silly on so many levels. Come on, guys.

Silly
-Does the game really have to take place in a library? And then be called out for doing so?
-Does Ren really have to be reading backwards?
-Did Yang really have to activate a trap card?
-Everyone has to take a rigorous examination...except Ruby. And Jaune. Well, whatever.

Calemyr

2014-08-01, 10:47 AM

That is not what Ozpin said. He said that to get into the school, you needed to go through rigorous testing. Most students have combat school knowledge, WHICH MEANS THEY ARE PREPARED FOR SAID TESTING. It'd be like if Harvard needed you to do a math test to get into it. Kids who studied math wouldn't get a free pass, they'd have to take the math test. But they'd be more prepared then "random child off the street".

A fair interpretation, I suppose. But not what I got out of it. Ozpin was being very specific about how those tests were meant for people outside of the school system. When I went to college I didn't need to take specific tests to get into it, for example. My GPA and ACT scores were sufficient to get me a place. Oh, there were tests afterwards to decide what level I would start in on subjects like math and so on, but that was after I was already accepted. And Beacon is a college, to my mind, as the age of the average entrant is 17.

Jaune's fake transcript is effectively his GPA and ACT scores. Those are supposed to be his test for entry. They say that he took his lessons, did his work, and proved that he knew the material. He cheated to get them, a fact that has bit him in the keister more than once already.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 10:50 AM

And I'm going to have to disagree that they don't fit the series. Those sorts of things have pretty much been happening since episode 1, so I can't see how they clash with the style.

Yeah, and it was just as bad. The spiral fingerprint thing and the waterfall of tears don't fit the art style of RWBY at all, is part of what I meant there.

I disagree. These aren't "tropes for the sake of tropes", these are references to anime staples for the sake of humour. It's not because they want to be "more anime", it's because they (accurately) think it would be funny.

I also disagree with the notion that "this is not how you write". You can write exactly how you want to write. If people don't push boundaries, if people don't try to break old chains, our stories and other art forms would never evolve.

I'd disagree. I do not find it funny. And references are not inherently funny. Yang referencing Yugioh is not funny. I would argue that throwing in all these anime tropes "for the sake of humour" is the exact same as throwing it in for the sake of tropes. Because instead of actually writing a joke you're saying "and then an anime thing happened".

You can push the boundries without throwing tropes at your plot until a story and characters show up. Nothing RWBY has done is genre busting or boundry pushing. It's derivative shlock at this current point in time, with some interesting possible plot threads for us to grab onto and hold on for dear life.

@Math_Mage: Well see Ren has to read "backwards" because his name is Japanese and Japanese read things backwards. Wait no Japan doesn't exist in this universe he just has a random name and is reading backwards because reasons.

Math_Mage

2014-08-01, 10:51 AM

A fair interpretation, I suppose. But not what I got out of it. Ozpin was being very specific about how those tests were meant for people outside of the school system. When I went to college I didn't need to take specific tests to get into it, for example. My GPA and ACT scores were sufficient to get me a place. Oh, there were tests afterwards to decide what level I would start in on subjects like math and so on, but that was after I was already accepted. And Beacon is a college, to my mind, as the age of the average entrant is 17.

Jaune's fake transcript is effectively his GPA and ACT scores. Those are supposed to be his test for entry. They say that he took his lessons, did his work, and proved that he knew the material. He cheated to get them, a fact that has bit him in the keister more than once already.
I see it as more of a Chinese/Indian system. But otherwise, sure.

But all this is overshadowed by my annoyance at Ozpin's use of "As you know" exposition. :smallannoyed:

GPuzzle

2014-08-01, 10:52 AM

*closes book dramatically* is the RWBY equivalent of thread-locking.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 10:53 AM

*closes book dramatically* is the RWBY equivalent of thread-locking.

Mercury did it four times so does that mean we're only getting four seasons?

Reverent-One

2014-08-01, 11:00 AM

Yeah, and it was just as bad. The spiral fingerprint thing and the waterfall of tears don't fit the art style of RWBY at all, is part of what I meant there.

Yeah, we all get that you don't like it. That doesn't make it not fitting for show though, which was your claim.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 11:01 AM

Yeah, we all get that you don't like it. That doesn't make it not fitting for show though, which was your claim.

I'm not saying it doesn't fit because I don't like it. Other way around. But okay, you think it fits and that's fine.

Reverent-One

2014-08-01, 11:06 AM

I'm not saying it doesn't fit because I don't like it. Other way around. But okay, you think it fits and that's fine.

You admitted it's been going on since the beginning, which makes it hard to say it doesn't fit the style of the series. The series was clearly created with that style in mind. Like Rawhide said, just because it's not the way you would write it doesn't mean it's wrong.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 11:10 AM

You admitted it's been going on since the beginning, which makes it hard to say it doesn't fit the style of the series. The series was clearly created with that style in mind. Like Rawhide said, just because it's not the way you would write it doesn't mean it's wrong.

The overly "trope for tropes sake" anime segments felt off as well, though. To me at least. It'd be like if, in The Walking Dead, characters randomly became chibi during comedy moments. Even if it happened since the beginning, it would still feel off for the show.

But again, that's just what I feel. The chibi Ruby in episode 2 was stupid to me, and to someone else it was good. People aren't always going to agree. I just feel it removes from the show's quality.

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 11:12 AM

Yeah, and it was just as bad. The spiral fingerprint thing and the waterfall of tears don't fit the art style of RWBY at all, is part of what I meant there.

Let's see, we've had Ruby speed eating cookies, Chibi Ruby, Weiss's speed talk, Nora's instant pancake eating, Weiss' internal monologue, Peter Port's blah blah, Nora's vanishing lines, Jaune forgetting how to parabola, and so on. I say it fits in perfectly.

I'd disagree. I do not find it funny. And references are not inherently funny. Yang referencing Yugioh is not funny. I would argue that throwing in all these anime tropes "for the sake of humour" is the exact same as throwing it in for the sake of tropes. Because instead of actually writing a joke you're saying "and then an anime thing happened".

It's funny because I say it is. Ok, let me explain that. I find it funny, many others find it funny, the people who wrote it found it funny. Humour is subjective, but these references are amusing some people, including myself. Not everyone will find them funny, as you clearly demonstrate, bit that doesn't mean that they aren't successful at being humorous.

I personally would prefer if it was less slapstick, more drama, but at the same time I still find them amusing and perfectly in tone with the series now that they have been established as a staple of the series. The first few times were jarring, now they are expected.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 11:17 AM

It's funny because I say it is. Ok, let me explain that. I find it funny, many others find it funny, the people who wrote it found it funny. Humour is subjective, but these references are amusing some people, including myself. Not everyone will find them funny, as you clearly demonstrate, bit that doesn't mean that they aren't successful at being humorous.

I personally would prefer if it was less slapstick, more drama, but at the same time I still find them amusing and perfectly in tone with the series now that they have been established as a staple of the series. The first few times were jarring, now they are expected.

Understandable.

I still think it's jarring.

I also still think that, weather someone finds it funny or not, there's still the thought that it would be funnier if it wasn't such a heavy handed, obvious reference to anime tropes. If they had made the board game just be Risk, but Remnant edition (which would be something fans could buy!) and cooled down the references a bit, it would of be a really good scene that shows us our heroes having fun like Ruby planned, and taught us a bit about the world. The way the scene is presented in the show makes it more about the funny anime references then what it should be about, showing our characters having fun and being people, and showing some more aspects of the world.

GPuzzle

2014-08-01, 11:22 AM

Mercury did it four times so does that mean we're only getting four seasons?

No... That means Rawhide will possibly keep closing the same book over and over again.

And I think this is the first time I "catched the bus running", as some people say here in Brazil, or joined the thing midway. Either I'm one of the first or one of the last, generally.

Reverent-One

2014-08-01, 11:24 AM

Understandable.

I still think it's jarring.

I also still think that, weather someone finds it funny or not, there's still the thought that it would be funnier if it wasn't such a heavy handed, obvious reference to anime tropes. If they had made the board game just be Risk, but Remnant edition (which would be something fans could buy!) and cooled down the references a bit, it would of be a really good scene that shows us our heroes having fun like Ruby planned, and taught us a bit about the world. The way the scene is presented in the show makes it more about the funny anime references then what it should be about, showing our characters having fun and being people, and showing some more aspects of the world.

The thing is, if they had the board game just be Risk, the game would move too slow to give the character's much to react to. Throwing in the trap cards allows for the quick results in the game that prompt the character's reactions. Those reactions are the acutal intended source of humor IMO, rather than Yang simply saying "I play my trap card", which is merely the vehicle to get us to that point.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 11:26 AM

The thing is, if they had the board game just be Risk, the game would move too slow to give the character's much to react to. Throwing in the trap cards allows for the quick results in the game that prompt the character's reactions. Those reactions are the acutal intended source of humor IMO, rather than Yang simply saying "I play my trap card", which is merely the vehicle to get us to that point.

It's pretty clear they're not good at the game, so if they played Risk it'd go fast because they don't think over their moves (beyond Yang, that is). We could of gotten the jokes without the references and such.

Reverent-One

2014-08-01, 11:34 AM

It's pretty clear they're not good at the game, so if they played Risk it'd go fast because they don't think over their moves (beyond Yang, that is). We could of gotten the jokes without the references and such.

Risk is still a lot slower than that, simply from the mechanics of the game. For Ruby's plan to backfire in Risk, she would have had to overcommit her forces and have all of the attacks (of which there would be a significant amount) go really poorly for her, then Yang would have to respond to this weakness on her turn. Meanwhile in the game in the show, Yang played a trap card and it came down to one die roll. Same end result, but a lot quicker.

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 11:34 AM

Please label your spoilers with the volume/chapter number, even when it is a reply.

I just noticed that I forgot to include the red text reminding people of this from the last thread in the first post, oops.

Understandable.

I still think it's jarring.

I also still think that, weather someone finds it funny or not, there's still the thought that it would be funnier if it wasn't such a heavy handed, obvious reference to anime tropes. If they had made the board game just be Risk, but Remnant edition (which would be something fans could buy!) and cooled down the references a bit, it would of be a really good scene that shows us our heroes having fun like Ruby planned, and taught us a bit about the world. The way the scene is presented in the show makes it more about the funny anime references then what it should be about, showing our characters having fun and being people, and showing some more aspects of the world.

You're still saying "should". So, I ask, by who's standard of how people "should" write? Normally I wouldn't be pedantic about language, but in this instance it's part and parcel of what we're discussing. You are saying that people should or shouldn't do something one way, while I'm saying that there aren't any such confines. Essentially, you're trying to lock the writers into formulas people have used in the past, the very thing you accuse RWBY of doing.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 11:39 AM

You're still saying "should". So, I ask, by who's standard of how people "should" write? Normally I wouldn't be pedantic about language, but in this instance it's part and parcel of what we're discussing. You are saying that people should or shouldn't do something one way, while I'm saying that there aren't any such confines. Essentially, you're trying to lock the writers into formulas people have used in the past, the very thing you accuse RWBY of doing.

My apologies, because that's not what I'm trying to get across when I say what I say. What I do mean is that the show might be better if it did what I suggested. It might not be, who really knows. What I want from RWBY is for them to just write their story. Write it, and any tropes that are used are used not because of a choice to put that trope in there, but because that's something that naturally comes about of the story. I do not want the story to feel forced, and my recommendations for how it could change would, I feel, help that. They can do it the way they did if they want, but making it feel like it's natural, not forced, is something that (I'm using that word again) should be done.

Maybe I'm just bad at explaining my points.

Metahuman1

2014-08-01, 11:40 AM

How am I the only one who noticed that Wiess was one step shy of doing the 80's conan movie "Drive my enemy's before me and hear the lamination's of their women!" line?!

Also, no, Wiess is legitimately concerned about them. However, she also recognizes that there not gonna be talked out of this, and that being there means she's got a chance to cover there backs if things go badly. And as for doing Hijinks, she's really awkward at it still, but she is making the effort. And that's a good thing.

To the person who claimed I was using Otaku incorrectly: Yangs making it a recurring thing to reference animes. Activated a Trap Card and the fact that her theme song (And Aside to LaZodiac: that ending credits song you liked? That's one of the 3 versions of Yangs Theme Song, "I Burn".) she refers to the fact that she's "Super Sayian Now!". And I'd wager there's more to come form her. Toward that end, What would you propose we call her since I don't think just saying "Yeah she's a Geek" really applies.

Rawhide: Wait, I didn't catch what Norra said when she woke up. What does she dream about?

And yes, to the several people complaining about the fact that the seventeen year olds are trying to have fun and have a sense of humor after the cops and fully graduated warriors told them "We've got this.", congratulations, the mere fact that the seventeen year olds are enjoying themselves and having fun and goofing around when not immediately in a life or death fight means that this series has hit a better level of realism then most rather pretentious series were the younger characters are there only to wangst about existentialist and nihilistic philosophy or more often Pseudo-Philosphy that the writers are shoving down the audiences throats while demanding they be treated as though they are oh so very realistic when in fact they wouldn't know realism if it put them in the hospital.

There human, it's good for humans to have this kind of release, PARTICULARLY if there gonna have to do things were there gonna be risking there lives later. It is healthy for them to have this kind of interaction. It is realistic that they would seek it out. So congrats, the show with the girl with a .50 caliber sniper rifle scythe and rose powered Speed Force Stunts has done something more realistic then a lot of media who rest there entire existence on being realistic. Congrats, you got you "This is how real people act".

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 11:45 AM

Metahuman1

2014-08-01, 11:49 AM

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 12:01 PM

Ah. I was kinda hoping it was either "The Audience" and thus furthering the theory that she's a 4th wall breaker, or "Ponies", because, well, Ponies.

But Pancakes fits in her case, and it's still funny.

Nah, the cute pony is Yang, Nora's a queen.

Chibi Ruby was jarring enough, I'd personally rather not have the fourth wall broken. Save that for the Deadpool movie that totally should get made. (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22er4q_deadpool-test-footage-released_shortfilms)

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 12:05 PM

Metahuman1

2014-08-01, 12:05 PM

Prime32

2014-08-01, 12:06 PM

My apologies, because that's not what I'm trying to get across when I say what I say. What I do mean is that the show might be better if it did what I suggested. It might not be, who really knows. What I want from RWBY is for them to just write their story. Write it, and any tropes that are used are used not because of a choice to put that trope in there, but because that's something that naturally comes about of the story. I do not want the story to feel forced, and my recommendations for how it could change would, I feel, help that. They can do it the way they did if they want, but making it feel like it's natural, not forced, is something that (I'm using that word again) should be done.

Maybe I'm just bad at explaining my points.For the most part RWBY doesn't include anime tropes so much as anime imagery.

If it was an actual anime, then the line "I start my year off with a Yang!" would immediately be followed by one of:

Yang is surrounded by some of that "blue-ish shadow and vertical lines" screentone, and everyone stares at her with blank expressions until she apologises.
Weiss or Blake punches Yang through a wall, and we see her flying through the air for a few seconds. We then transition to the next shot with a "pop" effect, where Yang is sitting at the table with bandaids on her head, and the hole in the wall has been boarded over.
Weiss or Blake punches Yang through a wall, turning her into a twinkle in the sky. Ruby screams "Yang! Yaaaaaang!" with tears in her eyes. A ghostly image of Yang with a peaceful smile appears in the sky, and we hear her thinking something like "I have no regrets" or "Ruby, please take care of my motorcycle". Move on to the next scene.
Glinda runs out of her office, into the room, and punches Yang through the wall. Glinda then blinks and says "Wait, what was I doing? Why am I even here?"

(accounting for Yang's personality and the tone of the show)

In anime when someone says something that dumb, you give them an over-the-top reaction (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BokeAndTsukkomiRoutine). In RWBY people mostly just have over-the-top reactions to random things, and leave stuff like that alone.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 12:10 PM

For the most part RWBY doesn't include anime tropes so much as anime imagery.

If it was an actual anime, then the "I start my year off with a Yang!" line would immediately be followed by one of:

Yang is surrounded by some of that "blue-ish shadow and vertical lines" screentone, and everyone stares at her with blank expressions until she apologises.
Weiss or Blake punches Yang through a wall, and we see her flying through the air for a few seconds. We then transition to the next shot with a "pop" effect, where Yang is sitting at the table with bandaids on her head, and the hole in the wall has been boarded over.
Weiss or Blake punches Yang through a wall, turning her into a twinkle in the sky. Ruby screams "Yang! Yaaaaaang!" with tears in her eyes. A ghostly image of Yang with a peaceful smile appears in the sky, and we hear her thinking something like "I have no regrets" or "Ruby, please take care of my motorcycle". Move on to the next scene.
Glinda runs out of her office, into the room, and punches Yang through the wall. Glinda then blinks and says "Wait, what was I doing? Why am I even here?"

In anime when someone says something that dumb, you give them an over-the-top reaction (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BokeAndTsukkomiRoutine). In RWBY people mostly just have over-the-top reactions to random things, and leave stuff like that alone.
(Yes there are plenty of serious anime where those reactions would be inappropriate, but in those stories the line "I start my year off with a Yang!" would also be inappropriate)

The reaction to Yang's bad joke was an apple to the face that caused a food fight involving powers and attacks strong enough to smash walls and pillars. Over the top enough?

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 12:11 PM

Yeah now see that? That's funny. It's been confirmed to be being made if I recall too.

Unfortunately not. It's in development hell, and likely won't get made. The budget they need exceeds the expected audience, due to its expected R rating.

They can't both like Ponies? Ponies are awesome in that lot's of people can like them even if they like different things. Besides, there are some similarity's between Yang and Norra.

And as for the 4th wall break, that's part of WHY I want Norra doing it. So I can officially lump her in with Deadpool, Pinkie Pie and Freakazoid! XD!

They can, but I was trying to humorously point out that they don't define her, while sweet foods definitely do.

I see... Well, I personally would still prefer my RWBY to remain 4th wall hijinks free. :smalltongue:

Prime32

2014-08-01, 12:12 PM

The reaction to Yang's bad joke was an apple to the face that caused a food fight involving powers and attacks strong enough to smash walls and pillars. Over the top enough?No, because food was being thrown at Yang already, it might just have missed, and Nora isn't really the type to be offended by people acting silly. It has to be punishment so we can get some schadenfreude. :smalltongue: The punishment itself was not in any way over the top.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 12:12 PM

Unfortunately not. It's in development hell, and likely won't get made. The budget they need exceeds the expected audience, due to its expected R rating.

They can, but I was trying to humorously point out that they don't define her, while sweet foods definitely do.

I see... Well, I personally would still prefer my RWBY to remain 4th wall hijinks free. :smalltongue:

Awe, that makes me a sad.

Same here.

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 12:26 PM

LaZodiac: I think the major "issue" (if you can call it that) here is that your criticisms are wildly hyperbolic. When there's something that doesn't quite fit the mold of what you expect or want it to be, you rant about it as if it's the worst thing ever with exaggerated and definitive terms. This is why some people get the impression that you hate the series.

These notes can be funny to some people, but that's not the way you should* write to express a serious viewpoint.

*Teehee

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 12:31 PM

Prime32

2014-08-01, 12:54 PM

Don't you know that true fans are the ones who complain the most? The OP for the RWBY thread at 4chan has a line something like "You're allowed to love it, you're allowed to hate it, you're just not allowed to think it's good." :smalltongue:
(at least it did when I checked, which was a while ago)

Math_Mage

2014-08-01, 01:21 PM

The visual gags can annoy me when they take me out of the scene for too little payoff. But they're not nearly as bad about it as the dialogue, because at least they're supposed to do that.

Ronnoc

2014-08-01, 01:27 PM

I actually like the visual gags simply because they're so blatant. I generally detest that aspect of anime imagery however RWBY uses it pretty exclusively in comedy scenes and it's sheer heavy handedness makes it fell like a particularly self deprecating parody of the style rather than a direct use.

I realize that may not be everyone's cup of tea but I enjoy a bit of self awareness in my comedy. Just keep it well away from my drama and we'll be fine.:smallsmile:

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 01:30 PM

Just keep it well away from my drama and we'll be fine.:smallsmile:

Unfortunately that didn't happen this episode. I really liked the scene about Blake genuinely being concerned with the fact that "there is literally an army of terrorists running around in our city with tonnes of dust and we don't know what they're going to do and it could happen at any moment" and then they kinda shat all over it with Weiss and Ruby being all anime and stuff. :smallfrown:

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 01:52 PM

Anyone else notice how closely Blake's speech matched the opening theme lyrics?

We can't just wait with lives at stake
Until they think we're ready
Our enemies are gathering
The storm is growing deadly

Unfortunately that didn't happen this episode. I really liked the scene about Blake genuinely being concerned with the fact that "there is literally an army of terrorists running around in our city with tonnes of dust and we don't know what they're going to do and it could happen at any moment" and then they kinda shat all over it with Weiss and Ruby being all anime and stuff. :smallfrown:

Weiss is still over the top. This was less anime hijinks, and more Weiss trying to be a good team member but overdoing it.

Ruby is still very excitable. This is about on par for her when she gets wrapped up in the moment.

Reddish Mage

2014-08-01, 02:02 PM

Nah, the cute pony is Yang, Nora's a queen.

Chibi Ruby was jarring enough, I'd personally rather not have the fourth wall broken. Save that for the Deadpool movie that totally should get made. (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22er4q_deadpool-test-footage-released_shortfilms)

They have broken the fourth while in Volume 1 during the initiation, when Yang and Blake meet, Blake clearly smiles at the camera. I don't think explicit fourth-wall breaking works in RWBY, and I'm not sure its actually present in MLP. Also, Deadpool would be a kickass movie, too bad standards are such that it is too much a danger to the rest of the Marvel franchise to allow such a cheerful bit of violence porn to be made. I'd bet it would make buckets of money beyond what an R-audience would project.

An aside, is there a point in a discussion that goes beyond the episode that we can unspoil a bit of it, perhaps a response to responses that bring up points not having anything to do with the episode? It does get a bit troublesome reading threads when nearly all the discussion has been spoiled

Unfortunately that didn't happen this episode. I really liked the scene about Blake genuinely being concerned with the fact that "there is literally an army of terrorists running around in our city with tonnes of dust and we don't know what they're going to do and it could happen at any moment" and then they kinda shat all over it with Weiss and Ruby being all anime and stuff. :smallfrown:

Except, this seriously is the setup of the show (which is ultimately Shounen-style) that team RWBY (and possibly JNPR) going after the villains that threaten the world, despite being young kids that have no business doing it.

By the way, if the nightclub incident from Yang's trailer did occur when would it have occurred and what would Yang have wanted from Junior and his crowd (and how is any of that connected to Torchwick)?

Prime32

2014-08-01, 02:02 PM

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 02:05 PM

Except, this seriously is the setup of the show (which is ultimately Shounen-style) that team RWBY (and possibly JNPR) going after the villains that threaten the world, despite being young kids that have no business doing it.

By the way, if the nightclub incident from Yang's trailer did occur when would it have occurred and what would Yang have wanted from Junior and his crowd (and how is any of that connected to Torchwick)?

Yeah, but they could of treated it a bit more seriously instead of having Weiss to an overdramatic flip with anime esque energy line background, and without Ruby going into a super rapid rant storm. I'm just saying that, at that moment, it would of been better to calm down and take things more seriously.

Honestly, I figured that happened during Ruby's fight in episode 1, and after being accepted into Beacon she left to go find Yang.

No idea what Junior's connection to Roman is. Maybe we'll learn!

Math_Mage

2014-08-01, 02:10 PM

Weiss' little stunt with the chair was exactly the sort of immersion breaking that irritates me. Ruby's rant didn't seem 'anime' to me so much as 'we couldn't figure out how to set this up with dialogue so we'll just throw it out there and hope no one notices.'

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 02:13 PM

They have broken the fourth while in Volume 1 during the initiation, when Yang and Blake meet, Blake clearly smiles at the camera.

Wait, what? I think you're dreaming there. :smalltongue:

An aside, is there a point in a discussion that goes beyond the episode that we can unspoil a bit of it, perhaps a response to responses that bring up points not having anything to do with the episode? It does get a bit troublesome reading threads when nearly all the discussion has been spoiled

You should generally avoid this if you're replying to a spoiler, but feel free to note in the spoiler title that it's no longer really a spoiler. There is a handy drop down option to expand all spoilers.

Reddish Mage

2014-08-01, 02:29 PM

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 02:34 PM

If they treated it with all seriousness, they wouldn't be talking of playing Superhero-Vigilantes, they would instead have Blake march right to Ozpin.

Seriously though, Blake smiled at the camera, its mentioned in the Bluray's director's commentary

You say that like it's bad. She does so, he says once again to let the adults handle it, have him hint at "you're going to be involved in the future anyway, so try and be children while you have time, please, for my sake and yours, since child soldiers are awful" and then have Blake and the others decide to make a secret child vigilante squad to deal with this. It helps build Ozpin up some more, and gives our heroes a much closer connection to this beyond "well that sounds fun and impressive so lets do it" that I get from Ruby's reasoning for them doing it.

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 02:42 PM

Yeah, but they could of treated it a bit more seriously instead of having Weiss to an overdramatic flip with anime esque energy line background, and without Ruby going into a super rapid rant storm. I'm just saying that, at that moment, it would of been better to calm down and take things more seriously.

Weiss' little stunt with the chair was exactly the sort of immersion breaking that irritates me. Ruby's rant didn't seem 'anime' to me so much as 'we couldn't figure out how to set this up with dialogue so we'll just throw it out there and hope no one notices.'

Are you both saying that you've never done something overdramatic at an inappropriate time then immediately regret it and/or never observed someone do that?

That was Ruby being Ruby, she's like that when she gets excited. No way she's being calm.

Seriously though, Blake smiled at the camera, its mentioned in the Bluray's director's commentary

I know the scene you're talking about, I still say you're dreaming. She looks to the side, which happens to be roughly where the camera is, and smiles. It's a shy smile, and this is exactly what shy people would do. I just watched the director's commentary of it, not a single mention during the scene. The voice actresses only mention it so much in that you should "check out this glance". EDIT: After listening to more after that, the voice actresses do seem to think that she at least comes close to breaking the fourth wall, but I still don't think so, and I seriously hope it wasn't intentional. Thankfully, they're not the writers or animators.

Now, if she had winked at the camera, you might be on to something.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 02:52 PM

Are you both saying that you've never done something overdramatic at an inappropriate time then immediately regret it and/or never observed someone do that?

That was Ruby being Ruby, she's like that when she gets excited. No way she's being calm.

I've genuinely never been in a situation where being overdramatic about something at an inappropriate time would be possible, honestly. But also yes I've never done the above.

Sith_Happens

2014-08-01, 03:34 PM

1. Ah, the joys of connecting your laptop to a 50" TV to watch RWBY. I even took the opportunity to rewatch the food fight.:smallcool:

2. Is it too late to move for this thread's subtitle to be changed to I Thought Libraries Were for Reading?

3. Y U LOCK OLD THREAD? Now I can't quote things from it.:smallfrown:

4. ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE RISK: THE GATHERING.

5. I tentatively second the "Neptune = Jaune + success" theories, and think that the resulting interactions would be hilarious (see: Jaune's "C'mon!" when Neptune magically steals his pickup line).

6. So Ironwood can bring a whole military unit to Vale with him and only possibly cause an uproar? When this show says "time of peace" it really means it.

7. Everyone who finds Team CRME's infiltration of Beacon unbelievable, remember that however hard Beacon tries to look like a high school, it's actually a college. There's no such thing as "too old" to go there, though the image of a 50 year old back-to-school-er wearing that uniform is hilarious (at least the female version, suits tend to be much more age-friendly).

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 03:37 PM

Math_Mage

2014-08-01, 04:11 PM

Are you both saying that you've never done something overdramatic at an inappropriate time then immediately regret it and/or never observed someone do that?

That was Ruby being Ruby, she's like that when she gets excited. No way she's being calm.
No, I'm saying what I said. If you read something else into it, that's on you.

PallElendro

2014-08-01, 04:25 PM

Hi, guys. I made this for all you Major League Baseball and RWBY fans.

Coco Crisp!
http://i.imgur.com/ZAcEsAn.png

Math_Mage

2014-08-01, 04:29 PM

wut did i just see

GPuzzle

2014-08-01, 04:34 PM

4. ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE RISK: THE GATHERING.

5. I tentatively second the "Neptune = Jaune + success" theories, and think that the resulting interactions would be hilarious (see: Jaune's "C'mon!" when Neptune magically steals his pickup line).

4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

5. inb4 Neptune's Jaune's long lost brother.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-08-01, 04:56 PM

Contrast this with Wukong and Neptune, who continue to be a flaming ******* and a generic douchebag "suave smart guy" character. Wukong's team is bad and three of our four main characters are getting basically zero respect or character growth. I'll admit that this is better then Volume 1, however.

I'm not quite sure in which post you wondered how people could like Sun or Neptune, but anyway, I'll try to explain:

Sun is playful and charismatic. Oh, sure, people with a stick up their butt (read: Weiss) will probably hate him. People who take words at face value will hate him too. But... he's actually a nice person. He genuinely likes his friends, both old and new, and tries his best to entertain them, because that's what he does. Yang makes puns, Ruby makes speeches and Sun teases and makes borderline too far jokes. He's honestly excited for his old friend (Douche) to meet his new friends (Ninja Terrorist Kitty Cat and the rest of team BLCK RWBY). He's cocky, but he isn't arrogant in a malicious way like Draco Malfoy, or even Weiss/Cardin to use an in-universe example. He's the Sirius Black of RWBY, and just because you might sympathize with Snape more or think Lupin is a better person, doesn't make Sirius less charismatic. Or for another example, he's Rick Castle, and likes rocking the boat to see how much he can get away with for no other reason than it's fun.

Neptune.. is precisely the stereotypical suave preppy cool smart guy. But there's a reason it's a trope: it exists in real life, and a lot of such people really do tend to be likable and charismatic. From what little we've seen of him, he really is suave, smart, cool, and preppy.

Just because you personally hate either the character, or the personality type, doesn't mean other people do.

In other news, if no-one has dibs on Neptune for an avatar, I want dibs!

PS:

Team CRME

Brilliant, I say! Absolutely bloody brilliant!

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 05:17 PM

I'm not quite sure in which post you wondered how people could like Sun or Neptune, but anyway, I'll try to explain:

Sun is playful and charismatic. Oh, sure, people with a stick up their butt (read: Weiss) will probably hate him. People who take words at face value will hate him too. But... he's actually a nice person. He genuinely likes his friends, both old and new, and tries his best to entertain them, because that's what he does. Yang makes puns, Ruby makes speeches and Sun teases and makes borderline too far jokes. He's honestly excited for his old friend (Douche) to meet his new friends (Ninja Terrorist Kitty Cat and the rest of team BLCK RWBY). He's cocky, but he isn't arrogant in a malicious way like Draco Malfoy, or even Weiss/Cardin to use an in-universe example. He's the Sirius Black of RWBY, and just because you might sympathize with Snape more or think Lupin is a better person, doesn't make Sirius less charismatic. Or for another example, he's Rick Castle, and likes rocking the boat to see how much he can get away with for no other reason than it's fun.

Neptune.. is precisely the stereotypical suave preppy cool smart guy. But there's a reason it's a trope: it exists in real life, and a lot of such people really do tend to be likable and charismatic. From what little we've seen of him, he really is suave, smart, cool, and preppy.

Just because you personally hate either the character, or the personality type, doesn't mean other people do.

"borderline too far jokes" are too far :smallannoyed:. Wukong is not a nice person. We haven't really been shown him doing anything nice.

I continue to fail how anyone likes Neptune in the slightest. He's literally done nothing but say a few lines so far. He has a character design and that's it. What little he's said makes him out to be a "I'm better then you, love me" kind of guy. I don't like anyone on Team Generic Anime Pretty Boy so far.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-08-01, 05:37 PM

"borderline too far jokes" are too far :smallannoyed:. Wukong is not a nice person. We haven't really been shown him doing anything nice.

I continue to fail how anyone likes Neptune in the slightest. He's literally done nothing but say a few lines so far. He has a character design and that's it. What little he's said makes him out to be a "I'm better then you, love me" kind of guy. I don't like anyone on Team Generic Anime Pretty Boy so far.
I'm assuming you completely cannot stand Harvey Spectre from Suits? AKA the man's man, the one man every man should aspire to be if they're not into hunting, woodwork, barbecue and boring government work? (redacted) is basically just a younger version of Harvey.

Sith_Happens

2014-08-01, 05:39 PM

Brilliant, I say! Absolutely bloody brilliant!

Sadly, I can't take credit for it, someone else already pointed it out.

"borderline too far jokes" are too far :smallannoyed:. Wukong is not a nice person. We haven't really been shown him doing anything nice.

He's a Lovable Rogue. Obviously you associate rogues with unlovability. Either way you seem to be alone so far in not liking him.:smalltongue:

I continue to fail how anyone likes Neptune in the slightest. He's literally done nothing but say a few lines so far. He has a character design and that's it. What little he's said makes him out to be a "I'm better then you, love me" kind of guy. I don't like anyone on Team Generic Anime Pretty Boy so far.

I like him for appreciating the intended use of a library.:smallwink:

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 05:40 PM

I'm assuming you completely cannot stand Harvey Spectre from Suits? AKA the man's man, the one man every man should aspire to be if they're not into hunting, woodwork, barbecue and boring government work? (redacted) is basically just a younger version of Harvey.

Never seen Suits.

I should note that my read on Neptune is ALSO just as unfair as your guys is love of him. AGain, he's done nothing but say things that to me, make him look like a self important jerk. When he actually does stuff I will think about his character more.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-08-01, 05:47 PM

Never seen Suits.

I should note that my read on Neptune is ALSO just as unfair as your guys is love of him. AGain, he's done nothing but say things that to me, make him look like a self important jerk. When he actually does stuff I will think about his character more.

So, basically, he's exactly like every other 17 year old boy that actually talks and isn't Jaune?

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 05:51 PM

So, basically, he's exactly like every other 17 year old boy that actually talks and isn't Jaune?

Not every 17 year old is a flaming douchebag asshat. Some are actually respectful. Some are cowardly and dumb like Jaune. Justifying the actions of a pretend monkey man by saying "well all 17 year olds are like that" is silly.

Lord Raziere

2014-08-01, 05:58 PM

Posting this a day AFTER I saw it...Lesse....

ooh intrigue! cool. and the headmasters last line tells a lot about him

yet another reason why I like Yang: we have both made the same joke.

Neptune seems likable. the guy hasn't done anything jerkish in particular so far, so I'm assuming he is just your average smooth ladies man. nothing wrong with that. I tend to take the stance of "innocent until proven jerk." with these things.

Am I the only one who is tilting their head at Nora's last line of "women." there? she is a woman. does she actually realize she is referring to herself as well as half the people in the room with that comment as well? or....nevermind, I'm probably just overthinking it. probably just parodying the line by making Nora say it.

ok, I think here is where we get Ruby's character flaw when she motormouths the whole deal about going off to fight evil-doers at the end of that conversation. She still has romantic ideas about all this. I find the way she states it is a little cringeworthy, but I'm pretty sure its meant to be that way. the hints that things aren't going to be all sunshine and lollipops is being dropped more heavily now, so it looks like its showing Ruby's naivety here.

Blake, I get the whole "I'm introverted and can't talk about these sorts of things, or at least not right away" kind of deal, I'm kind of that way too, but please start talking to him, at least soon? when an adult in an academy is saying they only want to help, they generally mean it. but then again, ex-terrorist racially oppressed survivalist upbringing so I may not know anything at all really.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-08-01, 05:58 PM

Not every 17 year old is a flaming douchebag asshat. Some are actually respectful. Some are cowardly and dumb like Jaune. Justifying the actions of a pretend monkey man by saying "well all 17 year olds are like that" is silly.

I was a 17 year old boy not too long ago. Truth of the matter is, they are either quiet/shy to the point where you don't notice they exist, or they're flaming asshats (ironically, socially awkward bookshy nerds are often the worst at it because arrogant, popular kids are more likely to be nice). Most grow out of this, some don't. But fact is, any guy that likes attention (between 40-60% of them as per Eysenck's cortical arousal theory and statistics on extroversion) is bound to come off as a total douche at least some of the time in his effort to get said attention.

Kd7sov

2014-08-01, 06:56 PM

He's a Lovable Rogue. Obviously you associate rogues with unlovability. Either way you seem to be alone so far in not liking him.:smalltongue:

Not entirely; I don't specifically dislike him, but I wouldn't say I'm more favorably disposed toward him than, say, Weiss at the end of last season.

(I tend to identify with Weiss' views a lot more than I'd expect, actually, considering our wildly different backgrounds.)

I like him for appreciating the intended use of a library.:smallwink:

This, yes. It's not exactly a lot of characterization, but it's certainly a positive sign in my book.

Soras Teva Gee

2014-08-01, 09:26 PM

Blake, I get the whole "I'm introverted and can't talk about these sorts of things, or at least not right away" kind of deal, I'm kind of that way too, but please start talking to him, at least soon? when an adult in an academy is saying they only want to help, they generally mean it. but then again, ex-terrorist racially oppressed survivalist upbringing so I may not know anything at all really.

Since hearing the full version of the Vol. 2 OP I have a vague trust issues (which I'm sure was the intent!) with said character so that may not have been wise. Its probably a red herring, but its at least possible its not.

And if it wasn't wise to not share then said character probably understands anyways. Since said character also rather evidently knows.

And if there was some obvious downside for keeping that a secret (like being able to bring in larger forces or whatever) I'd expect a little more force on the matter.

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 10:29 PM

No, I'm saying what I said. If you read something else into it, that's on you.

I'm making a point, the point is that people do that. I'm wondering why it breaks your immersion, when it is the kind of thing that actually happens. My guess was that you were somehow lucky enough to have never seen it happen, which is why I questioned if that was it.

Math_Mage

2014-08-01, 11:00 PM

I'm making a point, the point is that people do that. I'm wondering why it breaks your immersion, when it is the kind of thing that actually happens. My guess was that you were somehow lucky enough to have never seen it happen, which is why I questioned if that was it.
It has nothing to do with whether or not I've ever been around the sort of person who might have done something like that once in some situation.

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 11:06 PM

It has nothing to do with whether or not I've ever been around the sort of person who might have done something like that once in some situation.

That still doesn't answer my question of why something which happens in reality breaks your immersion.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 11:32 PM

That still doesn't answer my question of why something which happens in reality breaks your immersion.

Because it isn't reality? It's an anime. Lets say Weiss gets shot down by a stray bullet from a shoot out and dies, or nearly dies. That happens in reality. Doesn't make it any less immersion breaking.

Rawhide

2014-08-01, 11:54 PM

Because it isn't reality? It's an anime. Lets say Weiss gets shot down by a stray bullet from a shoot out and dies, or nearly dies. That happens in reality. Doesn't make it any less immersion breaking.

Math_Mage has said something about that scene breaks his immersion. I don't know what, I'm asking what, specifically broke his immersion and why, as well as why it irritates him.

LaZodiac

2014-08-01, 11:58 PM

Math_Mage has said something about that scene breaks his immersion. I don't know what, I'm asking what, specifically broke his immersion and why, as well as why it irritates him.

I'm theorizing as to why he said what he said. We'll see what he actually says when he's the time to :smallbiggrin:

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 12:57 AM

I'm theorizing as to why he said what he said. We'll see what he actually says when he's the time to :smallbiggrin:

Indeed. Only he can answer that question.

To give you a bit of background, I've worked with (and managed) a lot of people with Asperger's Syndrome, this has included a lot of training on the matter as well. While it is a spectrum disorder, which means it affects different people in different ways, and this trait is by no means exclusive to them, one thing all the people I worked with seemed to share is the ability to completely misunderstand the tone of a situation.

Now, imagine you've got someone with no volume dial on their emotions, just a 0 and 11, with no emotion expressed between complete indifference and absolute over the top enthusiasm (whether this be anger, sadness, joy, or so on). Couple this with the ability to misunderstand not only the situation but the tone of the situation. Yeah, well, you have a recipe for this happening rather frequently.

So, to me, the enthusiasm she expressed is perfectly normal, and it does not break immersion for me at all. There are elements about that scene which I think could be improved if done a different way, but I've come to accept as part of the medium. I'm trying to dig deeper to understand what part he meant, why it breaks his immersion, and why it is so annoying to him, but so far I'm not getting very far.

LaZodiac

2014-08-02, 01:01 AM

Indeed. Only he can answer that question.

To give you a bit of background, I've worked with (and managed) a lot of people with Asperger's Syndrome, this has included a lot of training on the matter as well. While it is a spectrum disorder, which means it affects different people in different ways, and this trait is by no means exclusive to them, one thing all the people I worked with seemed to share is the ability to completely misunderstand the tone of a situation.

Now, imagine you've got someone with no volume dial on their emotions, just a 0 and 11, with no emotion expressed between complete indifference and absolute over the top enthusiasm (whether this be anger, sadness, joy, or so on). Couple this with the ability to misunderstand not only the situation but the tone of the situation. Yeah, well, you have a recipe for this happening rather frequently.

So, to me, the enthusiasm she expressed is perfectly normal, and it does not break immersion for me at all. There are elements about that scene which I think could be improved if done a different way, but I've come to accept as part of the medium. I'm trying to dig deeper to understand what part he meant, why it breaks his immersion, and why it is so annoying to him, but so far I'm not getting very far.

As someone who does have Asperger's, I know what you're talking about. I'm curious what Math Mage's answer is as well.

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 01:07 AM

As someone who does have Asperger's, I know what you're talking about. I'm curious what Math Mage's answer is as well.

Oh goodness, I'm no psychologist, and I don't think it was deliberate, but looking back on everything I'm beginning to suspect that Weiss actually might just qualify for a diagnosis...

LaZodiac

2014-08-02, 01:09 AM

Oh goodness, I'm no psychologist, and I don't think it was deliberate, but looking back on everything I'm beginning to suspect that Weiss actually might just qualify for a diagnosis...

Can someone just be a stuck up jerk without having a mental issue? Like, not going to get to into it, but I'm still not certain why these labels even matter.

At any rate I don't think Weiss is anything more then just a character who is stuck up and a bit of a jerk sometimes. Nothing more or less in regards to that behavior.

Math_Mage

2014-08-02, 01:16 AM

That still doesn't answer my question of why something which happens in reality breaks your immersion.
Your question carries the implicit claim that realism matters for immersion. It doesn't. Whether something like what happened in the narrative could happen in reality under some circumstance has nothing to do with whether it maintains verisimilitude in the particular narrative and circumstance in which it is used. I'm pretty sure this has come up in discussion of RWBY's Awesome But Impractical weapons, which aren't realistic but don't break immersion, so I don't know why it's a point of confusion.

Maybe it would be more accurate to say that the visual gag only reminds me of the lack of immersion. Bad dialogue and bad delivery do enough work as it is. But for me, the show hasn't done nearly enough to establish Weiss as a person who does that sort of thing, so I get the impression that the animators are winking at me, and that just takes me right out of it. Which would be fine, if I cared for the joke. But I don't.
EDIT: No, I don't think Weiss has Asperger's. I think she was socially isolated by parental expectations. The real foil to Jaune, for that matter--Jaune, who I'm guessing was all but discarded by his family when he didn't take to their heritage early on.

PallElendro

2014-08-02, 01:24 AM

Wukong is not a nice person. We haven't really been shown him doing anything nice.

Sun's mentioned having to wait for two days before Blake has spoken anything meaningful to him. I don't know about you, but it seems to me like Sun has been caring for Blake those two days, since meeting each other casually wouldn't really qualify as extended contact without conversation.

If my post seems lengthy or disconcerted, I'll just say that Sun has implied letting Blake shack up with him for two days.

Lord Raziere

2014-08-02, 01:26 AM

Eeeeeeh, Weiss? Aspergers? as a person with Aspergers myself, I don't see it. though I might be biased towards Blake.

but yeah, she is probably just a stuck up jerk. but then again the way she tried to make it up to Ruby in that one episode was a little jarring for someone who I'd normally peg as "rich socialite" so.....

still. probably just stuck up jerk.

LaZodiac

2014-08-02, 01:27 AM

Sun's mentioned having to wait for two days before Blake has spoken anything meaningful to him. I don't know about you, but it seems to me like Sun has been caring for Blake those two days, since meeting each other casually wouldn't really qualify as extended contact without conversation.

If my post seems lengthy or disconcerted, I'll just say that Sun has implied letting Blake shack up with him for two days.

Maybe I'm just untrustyworthy but the fact that he lets this random stranger stay with him for two days without talking seems...scummy. Like, she doesn't say anything for two days, but he's totally okay with her because she's a Faunus. That is what it feels like to me, someone looking past a big red warning flag due to race.

Also since Wukong technically snuck into Veil how does he have a place to stay? Or did he just steal some hotel room keys or something?

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 01:29 AM

Can someone just be a stuck up jerk without having a mental issue? Like, not going to get to into it, but I'm still not certain why these labels even matter.

At any rate I don't think Weiss is anything more then just a character who is stuck up and a bit of a jerk sometimes. Nothing more or less in regards to that behavior.

Well, first, Asperger's Syndrome is generally called a neurological condition, not a mental issue/disorder. It is a physical difference in the neurology of the brain from birth.

Now, if she does have Asperger's Syndrome, that wouldn't make her a stuck up jerk, who has not had a great deal of teamwork experience, but instead, someone who just doesn't understand and is trying to fit in the best way she knows how, and the lack of teamwork experience only compounds the issue.

Actually, I wasn't even thinking about the bits you might call "stuck up' so much as everything else. She's very quick to go from indifference in, for example, the card game when she doesn't know what's going on, to absolute power monger when she thinks she's about to win, not to mention her internal monologue about Pyrrha. She's not easily willing to accept that she's not the best leader, but when she does, she tries to make it up in a rather unusual way, almost "I'm going to make you coffee whether you like it or not and you're going to like it whether you like it or not".

It's these kind of emotional outbursts and misunderstandings of the situation which, while it could be explained by simple isolation, lead me to suspect that it might be better explained by her just simply not understanding.

Your question carries the implicit claim that realism matters for immersion. It doesn't. Whether something like what happened in the narrative could happen in reality under some circumstance has nothing to do with whether it maintains verisimilitude in the particular narrative and circumstance in which it is used. I'm pretty sure this has come up in discussion of RWBY's Awesome But Impractical weapons, which aren't realistic but don't break immersion, so I don't know why it's a point of confusion.

My question carried the implication that I didn't understand why it broke the immersion for you, with the reason it seems perfectly ok to me. I'm not talking about the other way, being unrealistic and still keeping immersion, only this direction. If being realistic means breaking immersion, would you rather they be unrealistic and keep the immersion or be realistic and accept it?

LaZodiac

2014-08-02, 01:34 AM

Well, first, Asperger's Syndrome is generally called a neurological condition, not a mental issue/disorder. It is a physical difference in the neurology of the brain from birth.

Trust me, I know that. You don't have to explain it.

Now, if she does have Asperger's Syndrome, that wouldn't make her a stuck up jerk, who has not had a great deal of teamwork experience, but instead, someone who just doesn't understand and is trying to fit in the best way she knows how, and the lack of teamwork experience only compounds the issue.

Still a jerk for apparently willingly not learning what is proper. At least that's the feeling I get from your suggestion here. Lack of experience is understandable, but they've been a team for at least half a year, they should be at least workable.

Actually, I wasn't even thinking about the bits you might call "stuck up' so much as everything else. She's very quick to go from indifference in, for example, the card game, to absolute power monger when she thinks she's about to win, not to mention her internal monologue about Pyrrha. She's not easily willing to accept that she's not the best leader, but when she does, she tries to make it up in a rather unusual way, almost "I'm going to make you coffee whether you like it or not and you're going to like it whether you like it or not".

I would argue that is just a sign of her rich snob attitude. People of that "category" tend to act like that, stereotypically anyway.

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 01:44 AM

Still a jerk for apparently willingly not learning what is proper. At least that's the feeling I get from your suggestion here. Lack of experience is understandable, but they've been a team for at least half a year, they should be at least workable.

Trust me, even after years of working in a team, they can still do things that are out of place and seem like the person is arrogant without meaning to. I'm 100% not saying that having Aspreger's Syndrome makes you a jerk in any way shape or form, and I cringe when I see a news article blaming a crime on Asperger's Syndrome (due to most people with it having high moral codes, it's actually less likely to make you a criminal) but it does mean that some of the things people with it do might seem to come from arrogance to others.

I refer here to two types of empathy. Empathy to interpret a situation, and empathy to feel the same way. People with Asperger's Syndrome generally have an impaired ability to interpret a situation, but an exaggerated ability to feel the same way when that interpretation is finally made or explained. They might say something rude, seemingly arrogant, or completely out of place, but it's not because they are a jerk, it's because they haven't completely interpreted the situation. When they do, they are very apologetic (often overly so).

Math_Mage

2014-08-02, 01:47 AM

My question carried the implication that I didn't understand why it broke the immersion for you, with the reason it seems perfectly ok to me. I'm not talking about the other way, being unrealistic and still keeping immersion, only this direction. If being realistic means breaking immersion, would you rather they be unrealistic and keep the immersion or be realistic and accept it?
The reason you gave for why it seemed okay to you was because it happened in real life. Now you're offering an unrelated dichotomy. Since you did, immersion trumps realism every day of the week, but does not oppose it; they are on different levels of storytelling.

Sith_Happens

2014-08-02, 01:52 AM

Oh goodness, I'm no psychologist, and I don't think it was deliberate, but looking back on everything I'm beginning to suspect that Weiss actually might just qualify for a diagnosis...

Nope, not seeing it. While Weiss does tend to act oddly and/or unbecomingly in assorted social situations, she shows every sign of reading and understanding what's going on in those situations. Her idiosyncrasies aren't due to misunderstandings, but due to her being overdramatic and full of herself.

On an unrelated note, I had a thought re: Jaune:
So people were arguing before about the revelation of Beacon having its own entrance exam and how Jaune could possibly have gotten around that.

But I don't think he did. Remember during initiation when Glynda says that she "doesn't care what his transcripts say, he's not ready for this level of combat?" Jaune hadn't fought anything in the Emerald Forest yet when she said that, so how would she know? Because he bombed the entrance exam but Ozpin gave him the green light anyways because Mysterious Wise Headmaster Guy.

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 01:55 AM

The reason you gave for why it seemed okay to you was because it happened in real life. Now you're offering an unrelated dichotomy. Since you did, immersion trumps realism every day of the week, but does not oppose it; they are on different levels of storytelling.

No, I'm not offering anything unrelated. I stated that the scene did not break immersion for me, I stated why the scene did not break immersion for me, I asked you why it did break immersion for you.

You later raised the immersion is not related to reality bit, I asked a further question related to it to better understand you. Personally, I would prefer to snap out of immersion for a bit if something is done realistically rather than unrealistically.

Nope, not seeing it. While Weiss does tend to act oddly and/or unbecomingly in assorted social situations, she shows every sign of reading and understanding what's going on in those situations. Her idiosyncrasies aren't due to misunderstandings, but due to her being overdramatic and full of herself.

Overdramatic? Yes, exactly. Full of herself? That I'm not so sure about. Without her internal thoughts, it's hard to gauge exactly what she's understood of the situation, and we don't have very much to go on with from them having worked together for a long while yet.

Soras Teva Gee

2014-08-02, 01:59 AM

Btw guys in 2013 Asperger's was stricken from the list of distinct diagnoses in the DSM-5. So nominally doesn't exist anymore having been folded into the autism spectrum.

Also I don't think one should never ever attest IRL psychological conditions to fictional characters without direct statements to the effect. Especially in reference to comedy. They don't have it, whatever it is, lest then we be laughing at someone who isn't funny, they just have a health problem or having to read anything they do in the context of reality. Also we really shouldn't be encouraging armchair expertise in matters that are difficult enough in real-life.

People in fiction when "crazy" are just that, a purely fictional aspect of storytelling with nothing to do with reality.

Sith_Happens

2014-08-02, 02:02 AM

[Part of your post that I definitely saw get edited in]

How'd you do that without the post saying "Last edited?" Is it an admin thing?:smallconfused:

Lord Raziere

2014-08-02, 02:09 AM

Eh, I already knew that bit of update, but I still use "Aspergers" and "high functioning autism" interchangeably. I know my condition is now technically apart of some shallow end of something greater, but its easier to say that its Aspergers because, short and all that. that and there is too much potential for people to start mistaking me for people who are also on the spectrum but have worse conditions than mine. which just feels wrong to put myself under that umbrella when what I have is just not as severe. words have meaning and power. you put a bunch of people under one word and people will think of all those people as the same without recognizing the differences all that much. its just not something I'm keen on doing.

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 02:18 AM

Btw guys in 2013 Asperger's was stricken from the list of distinct diagnoses in the DSM-5. So nominally doesn't exist anymore having been folded into the autism spectrum.

I am well aware of this, it's still much easier and much clearer to refer to it as such.

Also I don't think one should never ever attest IRL psychological conditions to fictional characters without direct statements to the effect. Especially in reference to comedy. They don't have it, whatever it is, lest then we be laughing at someone who isn't funny, they just have a health problem or having to read anything they do in the context of reality. Also we really shouldn't be encouraging armchair expertise in matters that are difficult enough in real-life.

People in fiction when "crazy" are just that, a purely fictional aspect of storytelling with nothing to do with reality.

I never said that she had Asperger's Syndrome, I said that I was beginning to suspect that she might qualify for a diagnosis if one were undertaken, due to said reasons. Specifically, I wasn't giving a diagnosis (I'm certainly not qualified to do so and stated it), but reasons she might be if a qualified person were to actually diagnose her actions.

I'll note that many qualified psychologists do try to "diagnose" fictional characters, because it helps people who have a common frame of reference with those fictional characters to have an understanding of what they are diagnosed with.

And I don't see anyone here laughing at her for having any sort of condition, assumed or not.

How'd you do that without the post saying "Last edited?" Is it an admin thing?:smallconfused:

I try not to edit my posts through the admin channels, but sometimes it's just quicker/easier and I get slack.

Hawkflight

2014-08-02, 02:21 AM

I try not to edit my posts through the admin channels, but sometimes it's just quicker/easier and I get slack.

As someone who was once an admin for another forum (even if it was just me and a couple of friends), I admire your restraint.

Math_Mage

2014-08-02, 02:36 AM

No, I'm not offering anything unrelated. I stated that the scene did not break immersion for me, I stated why the scene did not break immersion for me, I asked you why it did break immersion for you.

You later raised the immersion is not related to reality bit, I asked a further question related to it to better understand you. Personally, I would prefer to snap out of immersion for a bit if something is done realistically rather than unrealistically.
You raised reality. You offered "I bet you've seen inappropriately timed melodrama happen in reality!" as an argument. Also, you put up with the weapons and the magic, so you're taking immersion over reality in at least one respect. Also also, I just explained why.

Note: I am using 'could happen in the real world' as my definition for 'realistic', since that is how you introduced it to the conversation. Perhaps you are defining it differently, in which case we are talking past each other.

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 02:43 AM

You raised reality. You offered "I bet you've seen inappropriately timed melodrama happen in reality!" as an argument. Also, you put up with the weapons and the magic, so you're taking immersion over reality in at least one respect. Also also, I just explained why.

Note: I am using 'could happen in the real world' as my definition for 'realistic', since that is how you introduced it to the conversation. Perhaps you are defining it differently, in which case we are talking past each other.

I raised my reason for it not breaking my immersion, because it is realistic, it happens in reality, I have observed it, it did not break my immersion seeing it. I asked you why it broke yours despite this.

You are the one who raised reality not being related to immersion, not me, and you used it on the opposite direction to how I was discussing it. There are two things here, reality which breaks immersion, unreality which does not break immersion. This appears to fall into the former for you, not the latter as per your example with the weapons.

Math_Mage

2014-08-02, 02:50 AM

I raised my reason for it not breaking my immersion, because it is realistic, it happens in reality, I have observed it, it did not break my immersion seeing it. I asked you why it broke yours despite this.
Because specific trumps general. Anything else I say will get misinterpreted, so I'll leave off.

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 02:57 AM

Because specific trumps general.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean here, or how it relates to the discussion.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-08-02, 05:18 AM

Sorry, I 100% can't see Weiss as an Aspie. Her interpretation of most situations is 100% normal given her background/worldview, and she doesn't show any lack of social skills/awareness. She IS a stuck up rich bitch, and it shows, but her behaviour is consistent with this. She chooses to act as a stuck up rich bitch), not that she doesn't know any different. And she's showing signs of improving and something vaguely resembling a sense of humour.

The only fictional characters (that I know of) that are 100% Aspie are Sheldon Cooper (Big Bang Theory) and Temperance Brennan (Bones). If anything, Ruby is closer to being a high-functioning Aspie than Weiss is, what with her not getting social cues (re: Weiss, Penny) and obsession over (admittedly, awesome) weapons.

There's no evidence Sun is bumming around. A lot of evidence from Vol. 2 Ep. 2 points to Sun not being able to get into the country (White Fang up to stuff so heightened security) than having to stow away because he doesn't have any money. More likely than not, he rented a hotel room and let Blake crash on his couch. Or at the very least, they were hanging out, having ice cream and walking around Vale. All because they shared a sideways glance while Sun was derping around with the cops. He's in no way obligated to do any of that, and while he probably wants to get into Blake's pants (remember, 17 year old boy with abs), he hasn't shown any form of aggression and acted like a nice guy more than anything.

Entrance exam could be in place for people who haven't been to an accredited combat school. So if you went to Signal/whatever, you're fine as long as your marks are high enough. But if you're from the middle of nowhere, are a Shonen protagonist, or raised by Kiritsugu, and therefore think you've got the pre-requisite combat training (literally, Blake), you can challenge the exam in lieu of going to a combat academy for X number of years. It's a system in place in a lot of North America (i.e. if you get a 4 or higher on your AP Calc exam, you don't have to do college calculus). Chances are, Blake did the challenge exam while Jaune just showed his (fake) transcripts.

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 06:23 AM

The only fictional characters (that I know of) that are 100% Aspie are Sheldon Cooper (Big Bang Theory)

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to stop you right there. I can say with 100% certainty that Sheldon Cooper does not have Asperger's Syndrome. If anything, I'd say say he's a sociopath. Leonard Hofstadter, on the other hand, would fit.

Everything you said about Weiss still fits, though. To someone unaware that the person has a difference, they appear rude, arrogant, or stuck up. The difference does not preclude learning, and her upbringing would have included training in formal behaviour (which is structured and easier to follow than typical social interaction, e.g. wear this like this, if this then do this, and so on).

LaZodiac

2014-08-02, 08:25 AM

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to stop you right there. I can say with 100% certainty that Sheldon Cooper does not have Asperger's Syndrome. If anything, I'd say say he's a sociopath. Leonard Hofstadter, on the other hand, would fit.

Thank you for that :smallsmile:

Anyway, concerning Weiss, I always try to take the "path of least resistance" when it comes to stuff like this. Weiss is like how she is because of her raising, which we know in universe to be apparently pretty bad. That's a far easier explanation to swallow then "oh she's secretly got a mental condition on top of being raised poorly."

It just makes things a little less complicated, which I think is generally a good thing.

GPuzzle

2014-08-02, 08:26 AM

Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm an Auspie.

It isn't likely, though. The closest thing I have is autism - but it's just a lot of signs, no official confirmation. Although my therapist said I might have...

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 08:52 AM

To be clear: There are many reasons why someone might act the way they act, a neurological condition being only one of them. I'm not trying to say that anyone has any particular condition, purely that looking at it more closely, her actions match or closely align with the actions of some people I know with a particular condition.

Keep in mind that: it is a spectrum disorder, it affects different people in different ways, with some people having greater or lesser difficulty in different areas
it is quite possible to learn to mask or completely hide the elements of the condition
it is much harder to identify and diagnose in girls, likely to do more with the typical social structure than a physical difference, though that hasn't been ruled out either

Mrc.

2014-08-02, 09:02 AM

I may have to eat some humble pie after this.............

Ok, just had a word with one of my friends and apparently, Monty appeared on a show just after this volume aired and did an interview. Amongst which was the question of whether there are or ever will be LGBTQ characters in RWBY. To which he said maybe.

"Wait a minute Mrc." I hear you cry, "You were the one who told us he was against these things!" Actually, I never did. What I DID say was that when he was asked at a panel during the airing of volume 1 whether any of the main leads were explicitly lesbian, he laughed the guy down. Not only does this mean any of the other characters could be or that RWBY could have a different orientation, it could in fact mean that he wasn't comfortable answering the question or perhaps wanted to say no for now without actually saying no.

Regardless, if he does include characters of orientations beyond straight, I applaud him. Of course, they could get introduced many seasons down the line or possibly not at all, but this is a step in the right direction.

DISCLAIMER: All the information in this post is second hand, and although I trust my mate he could well have been trolling (I doubt it though).

As for Aspergus, it does suck. Still, I get tons through my DSA at university so it isn't all bad!

Prime32

2014-08-02, 09:05 AM

Monty Oum is against lesbiansUm... have you watched Haloid recently? :smalltongue:

Reddish Mage

2014-08-02, 09:05 AM

Entrance exam could be in place for people who haven't been to an accredited combat school. So if you went to Signal/whatever, you're fine as long as your marks are high enough. But if you're from the middle of nowhere, are a Shonen protagonist, or raised by Kiritsugu, and therefore think you've got the pre-requisite combat training (literally, Blake), you can challenge the exam in lieu of going to a combat academy for X number of years. It's a system in place in a lot of North America (i.e. if you get a 4 or higher on your AP Calc exam, you don't have to do college calculus). Chances are, Blake did the challenge exam while Jaune just showed his (fake) transcripts.

Ozpin doesn't describe a two-tract system, he explicitly says that "in order to enroll...applicants have to take a rigorous entrance exam. Most applicants train for years at the "one of the many combat schools around the world" but Blake is one of the "few who did not." We don't know where the exams are or how they are administered, but it is clear that whether you go to a school or not you have to take this exam unless you thwart a dust robbery :smallwink:

In real life, for college-entrance exams in America, they may be administered by a school, or at an accredited testing center. These organizations then transmit the scores to a central organization which then sends it to the school you want to enter. Everyone takes the same exam. Unless Ozpin and Glynda observe every single applicant personally, the information can be faked somewhere along the line. Juane could have simply have somehow convinced a tester to give him very high scores without taking the test, or perhaps a relative (we know there are hunters in his family) is a tester and he forged his papers or sent an email from his relative's scroll).

Gespenst Ritter

2014-08-02, 10:11 AM

Except, this seriously is the setup of the show (which is ultimately Shounen-style) that team RWBY (and possibly JNPR) going after the villains that threaten the world, despite being young kids that have no business doing it.

Shonen protagonists have a tendency to be thrust into those situations by unexpected forces that are usually out of their control. They get powers from a mysterious stranger and keep getting attacked every week until they finally accept that their new life is their new reality. They fall into the cockpit and are now the only one that can use the robot, whether they like it or not. The number of kid protagonists that actually go out and say "I'm gonna save the world!" are lower than you'd expect, and the well-written ones that do are usually either idealists whose expectations are crushed, or people with a highly-warped sense of morality.

I had assumed RWBY would be taking the approach that involved the kids being thrust into the situation. Like Cinder does a major attack and now the students are forced into battle when they're not ready because there are no other options. But instead we've got Team RWBY trying to go after them on their own, which seems...forced, to me. I get the feeling that Monty wants to have the "kid heroes take down the adults" plot but can't figure out how to weave it organically into the story. It's possible he's going for the "idealistic protagonists who get crushed" angle, but that only really works when all of your main protagonists share that idealism. Right now it's a 50/50 split; Ruby and Yang want to go after the bad guys right now, while Weiss and Blake know that they're clearly unprepared. Which means that the story has to contrive itself to make the latter two suddenly change their attitude so the entire team can be on that go-getter streak.

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 10:32 AM

Right now it's a 50/50 split; Ruby and Yang want to go after the bad guys right now, while Weiss and Blake know that they're clearly unprepared. Which means that the story has to contrive itself to make the latter two suddenly change their attitude so the entire team can be on that go-getter streak.

Uhh, Blake was always on the go for role, not the wait. Weiss is the only remaining reluctant one.

Soras Teva Gee

2014-08-02, 10:33 AM

Um... have you watched Haloid recently? :smalltongue:

Monty made that? Not that I'm suprised but I haven't thought about that in years. Though some of RWBY's action did seem vaguely familiar....

LaZodiac

2014-08-02, 10:36 AM

Monty made that? Not that I'm suprised but I haven't thought about that in years. Though some of RWBY's action did seem vaguely familiar....

Yeah, he did. It's the one work of his I didn't get into when I was doing my RWBY volume 1 watch.

Sith_Happens

2014-08-02, 11:47 AM

Ozpin doesn't describe a two-tract system, he explicitly says that "in order to enroll...applicants have to take a rigorous entrance exam. Most applicants train for years at the "one of the many combat schools around the world" but Blake is one of the "few who did not." We don't know where the exams are or how they are administered, but it is clear that whether you go to a school or not you have to take this exam unless you thwart a dust robbery :smallwink:

In real life, for college-entrance exams in America, they may be administered by a school, or at an accredited testing center. These organizations then transmit the scores to a central organization which then sends it to the school you want to enter. Everyone takes the same exam. Unless Ozpin and Glynda observe every single applicant personally, the information can be faked somewhere along the line. Juane could have simply have somehow convinced a tester to give him very high scores without taking the test, or perhaps a relative (we know there are hunters in his family) is a tester and he forged his papers or sent an email from his relative's scroll).

I still like my idea better. I can't be the only one who was confused by Glynda's "not ready for this level of combat" line, right? Jaune bombing the entrance exam would examine it.

Gespenst Ritter

2014-08-02, 12:00 PM

Uhh, Blake was always on the go for role, not the wait. Weiss is the only remaining reluctant one.

Blake expressed that something should be done about Torchwick, but never specified that that something was going after him head-on or expressed that Team RWBY should be the one to do that something. Like Weiss, she expressly stated that they weren't ready to take him on, so why exactly would she be a proponent of taking him head-on? It's more likely that what she wanted to do was get themselves prepared more quickly than the speed set in their courses. Or at least, that's what would have made sense for her to think.

Even if Blake was on-board from the beginning (which she definitely wasn't), it still doesn't change Weiss's sudden about-face, where she goes "We're just students; we're not ready for this level of combat" to "Well, I guess it could be fun" in the span of 45 seconds. The whole segment was just shoddy. They needed more time developing that scene and less time spent on D&Diplomacy-Oh.

Sith_Happens

2014-08-02, 12:43 PM

Blake's "we may never be ready" was in response to Weiss's "we're not ready" as a reason to not do it. As in, she was arguing that it's not a matter of what they can do, it's that they need to at least try.

Weiss didn't actually come around so much as she was outvoted. Pay less attention to the words out of her mouth ("I guess it could be fun") and more attention to how she says it; that was clearly Weiss "this is an awful idea, but as your teammate I can't just let you do it without me" Schnee talking.

Gespenst Ritter

2014-08-02, 01:10 PM

Blake's "we may never be ready" was in response to Weiss's "we're not ready" as a reason to not do it. As in, she was arguing that it's not a matter of what they can do, it's that they need to at least try.

That's not what the context of the line and its vocal delivery said to me. Blake sounded incredibly panicked when she said they weren't ready. Not exactly the kind of attitude that inspires confidence and a "Let's go kick some ass" attitude. If they wanted to more clearly convey a "We're not ready but we need to do something anyway" response from Blake, they only needed to alter her tone of voice and add a single word to the existing dialogue. "And we may never be ready. But our enemies aren't going to wait for graduation, blah blah blah." And maybe a line afterwards saying "And we should do something about it," if they wanted to make it extra clear. Because right now, their choice of words and inflection place Blake in a position where she looks like she's inconsistent on her stance of what actions they should take.

Weiss didn't actually come around so much as she was outvoted. Pay less attention to the words out of her mouth ("I guess it could be fun") and more attention to how she says it; that was clearly Weiss "this is an awful idea, but as your teammate I can't just let you do it without me" Schnee talking.

Again, this is a problem with delivery and word choice. Because they way she said that line sounded less like she was resigned to the plan or reluctant to do so, but rather that she just said "**** it, I'm in." She needed something like "*Sigh* I guess you'll need someone to watch your back so that you don't get killed," or even something that just blatantly expressed that she still thought it was a terrible idea.

Soras Teva Gee

2014-08-02, 01:40 PM

Shonen protagonists have a tendency to be thrust into those situations by unexpected forces that are usually out of their control. They get powers from a mysterious stranger and keep getting attacked every week until they finally accept that their new life is their new reality. They fall into the cockpit and are now the only one that can use the robot, whether they like it or not. The number of kid protagonists that actually go out and say "I'm gonna save the world!" are lower than you'd expect, and the well-written ones that do are usually either idealists whose expectations are crushed, or people with a highly-warped sense of morality.

I had assumed RWBY would be taking the approach that involved the kids being thrust into the situation. Like Cinder does a major attack and now the students are forced into battle when they're not ready because there are no other options. But instead we've got Team RWBY trying to go after them on their own, which seems...forced, to me. I get the feeling that Monty wants to have the "kid heroes take down the adults" plot but can't figure out how to weave it organically into the story. It's possible he's going for the "idealistic protagonists who get crushed" angle, but that only really works when all of your main protagonists share that idealism. Right now it's a 50/50 split; Ruby and Yang want to go after the bad guys right now, while Weiss and Blake know that they're clearly unprepared. Which means that the story has to contrive itself to make the latter two suddenly change their attitude so the entire team can be on that go-getter streak.

Generalizations are easy to make when you don't have to attach numbers and percentages to them yes?

Now if you want thrust into the situation that already happened via Blake at the end of season 1. They're already involved through that and its amply organic reasoning for a bunch of foolhardy but super-empowered teens to take matters into their own hands whatever they do.

Heck not doing so would imply they you know... trust that the responsible adults have it all under control and totally don't need their help in anyways. Which is totally every teen hero ever amirite?

Gespenst Ritter

2014-08-02, 02:32 PM

Generalizations are easy to make when you don't have to attach numbers and percentages to them yes?

Now if you want thrust into the situation that already happened via Blake at the end of season 1. They're already involved through that and its amply organic reasoning for a bunch of foolhardy but super-empowered teens to take matters into their own hands whatever they do.

Heck not doing so would imply they you know... trust that the responsible adults have it all under control and totally don't need their help in anyways. Which is totally every teen hero ever amirite?

Most people who go and stop a robbery aren't exactly inclined to immediately go and stop more robberies. When the police and other authorities tell them that they'll handle it, they leave it to those authorities and go on about their business. They're not thrust into the situation of interacting with more criminals unless they stopped a Mafia crime or something and someone blows up their house in revenge.

You could argue that since Team RWBY is training to become Huntresses, that they'd be more inclined to immediately go out and stop crime than the average person, but then remember exactly what happened during those robberies. In both cases, they relied on the timely intervention of outside help to stop the villains. Ruby would have been toasted by Cinder if Glynda hadn't stepped in. Blake and Sun weren't making any real progress in their fight with Torchwick, and he still had three airships on standby. If things had drawn out a bit longer before Penny blew everything up, it's likely they would have lost. They're clearly not ready for dealing with true high-level combat, which is why they're in school to begin with. What Team RWBY's doing right now is akin to a cop who just got his badge deciding to bust open a major crime syndicate like he's an ace detective. They're jumping the gun way too much.

In a significant number of works that focus on a teen hero, the teen is the only one with superpowers or otherwise capable of stopping the works' menace. They handle things instead of the authorities because they're literally the only ones who can. In the world of RWBY, not only do all of the adult authorities have superpowers, but they're more superpowered than the kids, so the notion that the kids wouldn't trust that the adults have the ability to handle it doesn't really work for anyone except Blake, who doesn't trust humans in general. And even then, her answer being "Let's go attack them ourselves even though I just fearfully stated that we're not ready" seems silly. Hell, even Yang says at the beginning "I'm sure that the police and Hunters can handle things" before jumping onto Ruby's go-getter plan because **** it she's Yang and she's a ****ty character so she can do these things.

On a side note, it really hurts my brain when I think about the "police are incapable" situation here. Because a part of the reason why Blake thinks the police can't handle the situation is because they don't know certain info about the White Fang. Info that she refused to give when asked for it. So she's partially responsible for the police's supposed incompetence that she's complaining about.

Math_Mage

2014-08-02, 03:14 PM

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean here, or how it relates to the discussion.
Meaning I don't particularly care if something can happen in a general case like "in reality" when evaluating a specific case like "in Remnant, in RWBY's narrative, with Weiss, in this conversation."

Reddish Mage

2014-08-02, 06:54 PM

I still like my idea better. I can't be the only one who was confused by Glynda's "not ready for this level of combat" line, right? Jaune bombing the entrance exam would examine it.

re watch that scene. Glynda's line is "I don't care what his test scores are, he is clearly not ready for this level of combat.

In a significant number of works that focus on a teen hero, the teen is the only one with superpowers or otherwise capable of stopping the works' menace. They handle things instead of the authorities because they're literally the only ones who can. In the world of RWBY, not only do all of the adult authorities have superpowers, but they're more superpowered than the kids, so the notion that the kids wouldn't trust that the adults have the ability to handle it doesn't really work for anyone except Blake, who doesn't trust humans in general. And even then, her answer being "Let's go attack them ourselves even though I just fearfully stated that we're not ready" seems silly. Hell, even Yang says at the beginning "I'm sure that the police and Hunters can handle things" before jumping onto Ruby's go-getter plan because **** it she's Yang and she's a ****ty character so she can do these things.

true we see the military has the guns (or the Penny) and that Ozpin and the gang knows something, but RWBY does not see it and Blake has said explicitly she doesn't believe it (nor do I think she believes they'll take it seriously enough, and she certainly has reason to be afraid to talk). As a police matter, this is clearly, as they said before, above their pay grade.

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 07:21 PM

Soras Teva Gee, please don't try to be clever and attempt to skirt around the spoilers. If you're responding to a spoiler and/or discussing a spoiler, even in general or "hypothetical" terms, use a spoiler box.

Blake expressed that something should be done about Torchwick, but never specified that that something was going after him head-on or expressed that Team RWBY should be the one to do that something. Like Weiss, she expressly stated that they weren't ready to take him on, so why exactly would she be a proponent of taking him head-on? It's more likely that what she wanted to do was get themselves prepared more quickly than the speed set in their courses. Or at least, that's what would have made sense for her to think.

Even if Blake was on-board from the beginning (which she definitely wasn't), it still doesn't change Weiss's sudden about-face, where she goes "We're just students; we're not ready for this level of combat" to "Well, I guess it could be fun" in the span of 45 seconds. The whole segment was just shoddy. They needed more time developing that scene and less time spent on D&Diplomacy-Oh.

That's not what the context of the line and its vocal delivery said to me. Blake sounded incredibly panicked when she said they weren't ready. Not exactly the kind of attitude that inspires confidence and a "Let's go kick some ass" attitude. If they wanted to more clearly convey a "We're not ready but we need to do something anyway" response from Blake, they only needed to alter her tone of voice and add a single word to the existing dialogue. "And we may never be ready. But our enemies aren't going to wait for graduation, blah blah blah." And maybe a line afterwards saying "And we should do something about it," if they wanted to make it extra clear. Because right now, their choice of words and inflection place Blake in a position where she looks like she's inconsistent on her stance of what actions they should take.

Again, this is a problem with delivery and word choice. Because they way she said that line sounded less like she was resigned to the plan or reluctant to do so, but rather that she just said "**** it, I'm in." She needed something like "*Sigh* I guess you'll need someone to watch your back so that you don't get killed," or even something that just blatantly expressed that she still thought it was a terrible idea.

I disagree completely.

First, Blake never says that they are not ready, she only says "and we may never be ready" in response to Weiss. Weiss is the only one who says that they are not ready, and she says it twice. Blake's words are a clear indication that if they keep holding off until they are "ready", it will be too late.

Second, the entire reason Blake went off alone was because she was concerned that no one else was doing anything and that only she knew how dangerous upcoming events were. She was already thinking that she may need to get involved herself somehow.

The words, the tone, they all convey that Blake was already ready to take it into her own hands, she just needed to sort through everything and get a little nudge. If the team hadn't been willing to back her up, she may even have gone it alone, as she is wont to do.

Blake's "we may never be ready" was in response to Weiss's "we're not ready" as a reason to not do it. As in, she was arguing that it's not a matter of what they can do, it's that they need to at least try.

Weiss didn't actually come around so much as she was outvoted. Pay less attention to the words out of her mouth ("I guess it could be fun") and more attention to how she says it; that was clearly Weiss "this is an awful idea, but as your teammate I can't just let you do it without me" Schnee talking.

This, exactly.

Meaning I don't particularly care if something can happen in a general case like "in reality" when evaluating a specific case like "in Remnant, in RWBY's narrative, with Weiss, in this conversation."

Well, in that case, it still makes perfect sense to me that Weiss would do that right then, especially in the world of RWBY. I'm still unclear as to what part of that scene is causing you grief, which is why I queried it in the first place, but it seems that will not be forthcoming, so I'll leave it at that.

Reddish Mage

2014-08-02, 08:49 PM

We should totally decide a name for the game they were playing. So far I've seen Risk: The Gathering and D&diplomacy GI Oh. Personally I think the board looks more like Axis & Allies, but I'll go with risk since each player is also a side and the heavy emphasis on trap cards sounds like Yu GI Oh. So I'll call the game Risk-Gi-Oh.

GPuzzle

2014-08-02, 09:37 PM

We all wanna play that game. TO THE SKETCH NOTEBOOK!

Soras Teva Gee

2014-08-02, 09:46 PM

Soras Teva Gee, please don't try to be clever and attempt to skirt around the spoilers. If you're responding to a spoiler and/or discussing a spoiler, even in general or "hypothetical" terms, use a spoiler box.

*checks*

Ugh I can't deal with a week when that's how often their coming out, see you folks after the season wraps and there aren't any.

Rawhide

2014-08-02, 10:01 PM

*checks*

Ugh I can't deal with a week when that's how often their coming out, see you folks after the season wraps and there aren't any.

There is a handy dropdown link on every post to expand all spoiler boxes.

Sith_Happens

2014-08-02, 10:39 PM

re watch that scene. Glynda's line is "I don't care what his test scores are, he is clearly not ready for this level of combat.

I've seen that episode at least three times, and the line is "I don't care what his transcripts say, I don't think he's ready for this level of combat."

geonova

2014-08-02, 10:40 PM

In regards to why they are going out to attempt to stop Cinder's gang, everyone in team RWBY, except for Weiss, are overconfident and, even though they are stating that they are dangerous, they are still underestimating their opponents. This is a common set up in many series in which teenagers are in training tfor anything.

Silverraptor

2014-08-03, 01:26 PM

I just watched the first episode of season 2. And I just have to say:

That was sooooo stupid and soooooo funny!!!:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

I must've coughed up a lung.

*Cough cough*

Durkoala

2014-08-04, 05:50 PM

LaZodiac

2014-08-04, 05:57 PM

Also, can I sig the 'taking a/the piss' exchange? :smallbiggrin:

It's alright with me and I was half of that. And unendingly embarrassed by it :smallbiggrin:

Durkoala

2014-08-05, 04:33 AM

It's alright with me and I was half of that. And unendingly embarrassed by it :smallbiggrin:
Thanks! I'll wait to see what Rawhide says as he did contribute to the other half of the conversation.

also, a couple of things that I meant to put in my last post:

Really, the card game makes a lot of sense: all the weapons in Remmant are complex combinations, so it shouldn't be surprise that the games are too.
In the library, Nora's sleeping. This is because she can't read the books or join in the game (because you have to see the cards to play). She wakes up to join in the conversation because it's something she can join in.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-08-05, 05:39 AM

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to stop you right there. I can say with 100% certainty that Sheldon Cooper does not have Asperger's Syndrome. If anything, I'd say say he's a sociopath. Leonard Hofstadter, on the other hand, would fit.

Everything you said about Weiss still fits, though. To someone unaware that the person has a difference, they appear rude, arrogant, or stuck up. The difference does not preclude learning, and her upbringing would have included training in formal behaviour (which is structured and easier to follow than typical social interaction, e.g. wear this like this, if this then do this, and so on).
I've seen numerous analyses online regarding Aspies in media, if you want I could probably dig up a few. Bones is the harmless adorable geek subtype (focuses way too much on one thing and doesn't understand social conventions), while Sheldon is the arrogant douche subtype (considers himself smarter than everyone, which may or may not be justified, but doesn't understand social conventions so comes off as an arrogant buttface). Leonard is perfectly fine, just lacks confidence and was raised like a robot by his mom. Otherwise he's quite socially aware, probably the most out of anyone on the show that's not Penny.

Sheldon is definitely not a sociopath. Does he feel guilt? Yes. Can he lie well? Nope. Is he superficially glib? Nope. Does he selfishly manipulate everyone to get what he wants? Sure, if you define manipulation as whining until everyone gives in so he shuts up. He's also terrified of negative consequences so much, this alone prevents him from being a psychopath. Sheldon really only has 2 of the main traits: grandiose sense of self worth and inability to form deep emotional attachments. On the other hand, he entirely does not understand social conventions (or even the reasons behind them), is unable to read body language or sarcasm, does not know when he comes off as rude, uses rules of etiquette in lieu of empathy, does not actually display much empathy, is completely entranced by trains... the list goes on, but it all boils down to "he can't read people or understand social interaction." He just comes off as flamboyant and animated because his actor is.

Sociopaths/psychopaths are characters like Tom Zarek (BSG), Devon Banks (Will Arnett's character on 30 Rock), Petyr Baelish or Joffrey Baratheon (Game of Thrones), Lex Luthor (at least in the cartoons I've watched as a kid)... They may or may not be violent, but they're superficially charismatic, extremely manipulative, always seek power, don't feel guilt or anxiety over consequences, and are unable to form emotional attachments. Sheldon fits none of these traits.

In regards to RWBY, if anything, Penny is closer to Asperger's as per DSM than Weiss. May or may not be because she's a robot. She's just overly formal and polite than unintentionally rude.

But anyway, this discussion is neither here nor there and irrelevant to RWBY, so I'll stop.

EDIT: to clarify, the "adorkable geek" and "arrogant douche" aren't actual subtypes, obviously. Just the stereotypical ways autism can manifest itself.

Reddish Mage

2014-08-05, 11:56 AM

In regards to RWBY, if anything, Penny is closer to Asperger's as per DSM than Weiss. May or may not be because she's a robot. She's just overly formal and polite than unintentionally rude.

But anyway, this discussion is neither here nor there and irrelevant to RWBY, so I'll stop.

I would be hesitant to talk about diagnosing fictional characters with psychological illnesses without having at least a fairly good summary in front of me or intimate experience with a particular illness. Weiss has a...certain... personality but I haven't seen anything to indicate she isn't "with it" so much as being just a little full of herself and her own attitudes (she's more evocative of that middle aged woman on the homeowners board, or my upper middle class aunt and her strong opinions). To even have even "illness-"personality (not having the traits present in a disruptive enough fashion for the diagnosis but a personality that is reminiscent of the traits) one needs to at least evoke those traits and not others. Weiss is fairly balanced, hates the "ice queen" monicker, is rather quick to warm, and can be quick to apologize with grace. I think it might be more interesting to ask whether Weiss really qualifies as "tsundere."

Penny, on the other hand, the writers certainly intended her to be socially inept and quite a bit "off." Whether of not Penny is intended to be and actually looks a sort of high functioning autistic, the fact that her difference is a matter of nuances in her interactions instead of just being wooden or limited is something rather unique and interesting.

Lord Raziere

2014-08-05, 02:04 PM

EDIT: to clarify, the "adorkable geek" and "arrogant douche" aren't actual subtypes, obviously. Just the stereotypical ways autism can manifest itself.

I have been both. those types are more like moods: if I'm feeling good, I'm probably adorkable geek, if I'm feeling bad, I'm probably arrogant douche. It depends on what I'm reacting to. Heck, there are times when I can be arrogant douche until I realize I'm wrong and then I collapse into adorkable geek who is sad that he got that wrong and was being a jerk about it, and there are times when I can start an adorkable geek being happy about something but then someone else talks about it and the discussion gradually turns me into arrogant douche if it goes the wrong way. they're more like two sides of the same coin than anything else.

Edit: but yeah, if there is any character that is most likely to possess the Asperger condition (I don't use "illness" or "disability" as I'm not "ill" from autism, its just how I am) its Penny. but you can't be sure of it, its just a likelihood, not a hard rule. and it really, it doesn't matter if they are Aspergic or not. it matters that I, as a person with high-functioning Autism, can identify and relate to them. and I can relate to Penny in some ways.

Math_Mage

2014-08-05, 02:58 PM

Should be noted that Sheldon has his adorkable geek moments too. They're usually in the episodes that treat him like Leonard/Penny's adopted manchild, though. :smallsigh:

LaZodiac

2014-08-05, 03:01 PM

Should be noted that Sheldon has his adorkable geek moments too. They're usually in the episodes that treat him like Leonard/Penny's adopted manchild, though. :smallsigh:

As much as I dislike RoboPenny for all the potential bad story telling she implies by existence, I'd take her over anyone in Big Bang Theory. Can not wait for that show to suck on a bullet. THAT is a show I hate.

Silverraptor

2014-08-05, 03:02 PM

When do the episodes usually come out on youtube? I'm wanting to know because my current location only allows youtube access currently.

LaZodiac

2014-08-05, 03:06 PM

When do the episodes usually come out on youtube? I'm wanting to know because my current location only allows youtube access currently.

A week later. So this Thursday, Episode 2 comes onto Youtube.

Silverraptor

2014-08-05, 03:46 PM

Okay thanks.

Ramza00

2014-08-05, 04:23 PM

Calemyr

2014-08-05, 04:31 PM

I want more rwby music, they need to release more songs for rwby (like previewing the vol 2 soundtrack if they have a vol 2 soundtrack.)

----

Do we have any evidence that Penny is a robot or a cyborg. I am not doubting she is one, just that I do not believe we have confirmation. She could just have a stylish personality after all :)

Well, that backpack is too small to have that many swords stashed in it for one, and when she drew them it looked awfully like her actual back was opening. There's also the obvious Pinocchio parallels (such as the focus on string/wire), as well. Finally, there's also the fact that her plane buster beam didn't have the arcane stylings that Glenda and Weiss have. She's pretty clearly not playing by the same rules as anyone else on the board.

LaZodiac

2014-08-05, 04:32 PM

Ramza00

2014-08-05, 04:38 PM

The backpack thing could be just the rule of cool. Crescent rose when it is scythe form is much larger than crescent rose in carry mode. I am not sure we have the conservation of mass in the rwby world like we do in the real world.

----

So all we have is Penny is socially awkward and oblivious, and she is a good fighter with a unique fighting style. Thus she must be a robot.

(Not saying she is not a robot, we just do not know yet.)

Calemyr

2014-08-05, 04:47 PM

Ramza00

2014-08-05, 04:50 PM

All I'm saying is that it takes much more suspension of disbelief at this point to believe she's not a robot.

This is a world where are seeing magical things daily. Do not take anything for granted.

If she is not a human then does she have an aura?

Calemyr

2014-08-05, 04:55 PM

This is a world where are seeing magical things daily. Do not take anything for granted.

If she is not a human then does she have an aura?

We don't know crap about Aura. Presumably, as a robot, she wouldn't have any Aura to start. However, as Aura is equated to having a soul, it seems that would be a plot-relevant upgrade for the future. She'd make up for it in the mean time by having tech based weaponry and inhuman durability due to being a machine. Like she has so far.

Landis963

2014-08-05, 04:56 PM

This is a world where are seeing magical things daily. Do not take anything for granted.

If she is not a human then does she have an aura?

We don't know. Possibly not. Assuming of course that she is something other than organic sophont.

CaDzilla

2014-08-05, 07:45 PM

None of those gears in Ozpin's room are interacting with each other.

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 12:21 PM

Math_Mage

2014-08-07, 12:52 PM

Ramza00

2014-08-07, 12:55 PM

Has there been a sense that the characters can be threatened?

Physical harm no if the person is paying attention, makes no mistakes, and has enough aura.

Accidental mistakes making you vulnerable yes.

Running out of aura and thus you go unconscious yes.

We also know people can die off screen (such as the shop owner) so we know that people can die due to violence.

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 01:05 PM

They seemed to be having a hell of a time with the Deathstalker/Nevermore, and with Torchwick at the end of last volume. And Ruby had to have Goodwitch save her bacon twice in ep 1 form Torchwick and Cinder and Goodwitch was quick to rub in that if it wasn't for her Ruby would be in a hospital or a morgue right now.

Calemyr

2014-08-07, 01:17 PM

Just had a thought.

How does the food fight destroy any sense of tension/the characters being people who can end up in danger when the freaking Landing scene in ep 4 or 5 showed them surviving as bad or worse?

Honestly, I don't think it does. I think the whole scene was there for several reasons:
1) Refresh audience with the fighting styles and known skills of all eight main characters.
2) Provide a nice slab of red meat for an audience that has been starving for a good RWBY-style fight scene for more than half a year.
3) Provide 1 & 2 without the requisite buildup for an actual battle, so that it can be included ASAP.
4) Show that all eight of our main characters, despite their immense talent and durability, are still kids who rough-house and play and laugh about it after the fact.
5) To stress the concepts of 'fun' and 'innocence', likely as a contrast to the later part of the volume.

Going from the song, this will be where idealism starts to die. V1's song was a victorious and driven song about people trying to prove themselves - both to their own selves and to others. V2's song starts at a breaking point and gathering enemies and leads into the unsettling suggestion that our guys and gals may have signed up not to be heroes but merely weapons for someone else's war. The first volume lived up to it's song. If this one does as well...

As for why it could be seen as a destruction of tension, I could see the argument being made that it sets a tone for the volume of being light-hearted and never-say-die. I see it as a sign that things are going to get a bit dark, honestly.

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 06:56 PM

Right, so, Penny really is a robot and her "Dad" is probably telling her he values her, but the thing is that he doesn't love her, he loves the idea that he thinks he's finally gotten it worked out to where you can declare war/put down a rebellion/enforce your laws/kill Grim with out having to risk your own people in order to do it.

And yeah, Wiess evidently has a sister, and I'm betting form what we saw of Wiess in this that the Abusive family idea is solid. Maybe not physically abusive nessissarily, or at least directly physically abusive, but I'm betting money on emotionally abusive to at least some level.

Also, poor Dust Shop guy can't win for loosing, and Yang continues to be funny!

Lastly: Lazodiac: No, they don't need to teach the Robot to love or have friends. They need to teach her how to be at peace with herself. it's not "Can the machine have feelings" its "Helping a sentient being that's new to the world understand and cope with her feelings."

Oh, and convincing other people that she's not Just a gun with legs, a voice box and a face.

Lord Raziere

2014-08-07, 07:37 PM

and YUP! Penny is a robot!

Weiss.....huh....he was so clearly putting on a mask, and not in a comfortable way. for someone I first pegged as social rich girl, she seems bad at being social, or at least uncomfortable with applying the techniques of being social. she even practiced facial expressions before having the conversation and she was clearly not liking having to do it. a lot of Weiss seems to be a facade. she puts on a mask of leadership and superiority at first to strangers, she puts on a mask of bitterness and logic to people who know her, she puts on a mask of politeness when speaking to anything related to her family. who is the real Weiss here?

and hm, it seems unusual even for other Aura users to do the strength thing that Penny just did. or its notable because no Aura was used for it at all.....

and it seems the Alesian (did I get that right?) military created Penny. my theory now: that headmaster guy who was talking with Ozpin is Penny's "father" and either considers her a secret weapon, and/or not a real person at all but wants to keep her secret for some reason.

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 07:49 PM

Lord Raziere

2014-08-07, 07:53 PM

Perhaps he's concerned Ozpin will actually pay attention to what he's done if he doesn't control things a certain way first before Ozpin get's wind of it and get some silly notion like "She's just as alive and sentient as anyone else" that would interfer with his moral high ground sending her into battle instead of others like team RWBY?

Good possibility. Ozpin is theoretically equal in power to him. politics between headmasters going on.

also, those new robots that just came off the truck seem a little human themselves. I mean stomping their previous guys underfoot? flexing for the crowd? that screams "these guys are sentient to!" to me. but then again, could be pre-programmed responses or something, who knows?

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 07:57 PM

Good possibility. Ozpin is theoretically equal in power to him. politics between headmasters going on.

also, those new robots that just came off the truck seem a little human themselves. I mean stomping their previous guys underfoot? flexing for the crowd? that screams "these guys are sentient to!" to me. but then again, could be pre-programmed responses or something, who knows?

My money says either pre-pro-gramed for demo purposes, or they have people with remote control operating them.

I'm expecting sentient robots to be uniqe to Penny, at least for awhile, else I doubt keeping just her secret would be such a high priority.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-08-07, 08:09 PM

...Hey, I wasn't the only one thinking it.

Also, Neptune confirmed as a cooler Jaune. But hey, Neville Longbottom Jaune might finally notice that Ginny Weasly Pyrrha has been there for him the entire time!

Is it just me, or are they setting up several parallel adventure episodes? This one was Ruby, Weiss and Penny. Next one is monkey business. But hey, they might even make it to the White Fang hangout later. Tonight at 10, local crime hangout - a literal warzone, after a suspected rival gangster was insulted by never actually getting a little umbrella in her drink. Interview with a well-armed college kid at 10:30 - what did innocent bystanders think about the whole affair? In other news, club favourite, DJ Deadb3ar, cancels his upcoming concert due to a hiking accident with a shotgun.

Gespenst Ritter

2014-08-07, 08:19 PM

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 08:21 PM

Jeez, looks like I'm getting in early this time (Spoilers may not be accurate at time of posting).

Episode 3: A Minor Hiccup

Spoilers I don't think it'll be minor.

We open with Jaune talking to Weiss while Professor Port blathers on about nonsense. He's hitting on her, but at least it's not obnoxious. Though the "Spruce Willis movie" reference is...just please, don't. It takes me right out of a show when you directly reference something like that in a setting that isn't intended to be Earth. "The Devil's a Part Timer" calls it's version of McDonalds "MgRonalds" in order to avoid copy right, and that's good and makes sense. It takes place on Earth. But Remnant...doesn't. So Spruce Willis is just...too much. I'm rambling.

Weiss's block hits 4:00 so class ends, so she leaves without even responding to Jaune. An understandable and measured decision given that they WERE in class, even if the class was just the teacher rambling about how awesome he is, apparently. Oh wait she did hear him, as when asked she goes "No, no, no, yes" in response to his four questions, the first three of which where various things they could do together. As she and team RWBY leaves Yang pats Jaune on the head and says "someday". Please no.

Oh hey randomly new outfits. All of them look really...not good. Blake's has a popped collar (stop taking clothing advice from Wukong. Thinking on it, her outfit really does just seem like she borrowed some clothes from the stupid monkey man. Huh.). Weiss...looks slightly different but in a way I can't quite point out (upon reflection she added buttons, and it's less of a dress and more of a shirt with a skirt). Ruby's outfit looks...weird, like she's put a garter belt or something ontop of her clothes. Yang's is the most sensible of an upgrade since it looks liker her normal outfit, just more armoured everywhere but her breasts. Subtle.

I...don't see any reason for this outfit change, but alright. Lets see where it goes. If this is a super secret mission maybe this is "sneaking clothes" or whatever.

OH, I see, Blake's outfit is meant to be a ninja suit with the top being a popped collar v-neck shirt instead of an actual neck high ninja suit thing. This makes sense in my head but when writing it out it looks weird. Also it just occured to me, EVERYONE'S got a popped collar except Ruby.

Anyway, the plan. Ruby and Weiss are going to check out the Schnee family...logs, I suppose, to see if any other robberies happened. I'm sure this will lead to them discovering Blake stole from Dust and thus will make Weiss mad. Blake will be going to the Whitefang recruitment meeting to get information which is 200% setting up for her to betray the heroes at some point, I'm so looking forward to this. I'm also lying.

Yang's got a contact that just "knows everything that's going on in Veil" and she mentions he's from the shady side of town. Yang's kind of punk. Suddenly Wukong shows up, hanging from his impossibly strong tail, saying "yeah, lets do this!"

Everyone jumps back from him using the same "animation" that Wukong and Neptune had when they entered the food hall in episode 1, only with a blur effect to cover how ****ty it looks. Stop doing this.

Wukong wants to get involved so they can get back at Roman. Understandable, especially given he ran away like a coward. Blake implies "no go home" by saying they're investigating this "as a teeeaaaam", emphasizing the team part. Ruby adds that they don't want to involve friends with this. He responds that that is stupid. Friends should always be involved! That's why he brought Neptune.

...guys, stop, this isn't funny. Okay, so when Wukong showed up they asked how he get up there and he says "easy, I do it all the time" and when pressed he says "I climb tree's all the time." It's not a joke I found funny, but alright. When they see Neptune is standing on the edge of the wall just outside their window, they ask HIM how he got there, and he says "I have my ways". Haaaaaaaaah. I don't get why this is funny. I also don't know where that tree came from because it looks like it should be visible from the window but it isn't. But whatever. The joke about him wanting to come inside because it's reeeaaly high up though, that's kind of funny.

Wukong will be going with Black, and Neptune will be going with Yang. While saying this Ruby just pushes Neptune along and he stays ram rod straight with his doofy grin on his face and I...is this supposed to be funny? After he gets pushed next to Yang he rocks in place like a model making...weird plastic sounds and stuff. This...I don't understand why they are doing this. It doesn't really seem funny to me. Whatever, to each their own.

Anyway, Weiss wants Ruby to go with Yang instead cause she luuuurves her some Neptune for no reason what so ever other then "he's hot" which I guess works since they're like 16 and thus stupid.

Ruby brushes off the suggestion and drags Weiss away by the scruff of her popped collar. This made me smile, I'll give em that much.

Oh man exposition that these characters should all know. On the other hand Weiss is the type of person who WOULD do this. Weiss is describing what the trains are. Ruby makes fun of her "Oh look at me, I'm Weiss. I know facts. I'm rich." This gets Ruby to crack up, and makes me smile a bit. It's cute and kind of funny. Also just realized there is a random metal shoulderpad on Ruby's outfit that makes no sense.

...Ruby thinks the tower is cool, and says she's gonna take a picture, so she...she reaches into her stomach and pulls out what looks like a psp before bumble****ing the thing 15 feet. Someone gif this. Someone teach me how to gif so I can gif all the stupid **** in this. Also, closer look at the psp thing shows it's one of those...screen things that Ospin had last volume.

The screenthing lands in front of familiar black and green shoes. It's Penny! Yay? Her voice acting seems a lot better. This is very good. Penny gets nervous, says they are mistaken, and runs off. Ruby completely ditches The Mission to chase after Penny, which I'm not sure is in character or not. It could go either way really.

Okay, the entire scene with Ruby trying to talk to Penny, that was good. And Penny's response of "it isn't safe to talk here" gives me sliiight hopes that we might not get what I suspected from Penny back in Volume 1. This is another very good thing. We'll see how it develops.

Meanwhile Weiss is just walking into the Schnee corp building and stuff. Makes sense. Her hand clips through her dress a few times. Is it really that hard to just...not have that happen?

...the psp things are called Scrolls. Alright.

Okay, Weiss trying to put on a fake smile is really good. I'll continue to say it would look better if it was in hand drawn stuff, but whatever that's just preference.

OH hey a reveal that Weiss has a sister. Winter and Weiss Schnee. Unless Winter's last name is also different because THEMEING. Also her father is alive so that's...interesting, and throws a lot of theories out.

...well then. So far it seems that if we can get the characters away from each other, doing things that advance the plot, we actually get fairly well acted, good scenes. Perhaps we should do more of this. Just a suggestion.

Meanwhile back with Penny, Ruby shows up at a cafe. For a brief moment every colour on Ruby is heavily washed out. Just noticing errors. During the conversation we hear that Penny's father (who we know to be Ironwood because of the opening) is very protective of her (which we know because of common sense is because she is a robot). Ruby mentions she knows the feeling, which maybe confirms she has a father. I don't know.

Penny and Ruby just happen to come across a display of Ironwood's robot soldiers. There's a weird audio and visual glitch where the hologram of Ironwood bows and says "wouldn't you agree" twice, the second time garbled. I'm unsure if this is intentional or not though. It feels like it's an accident though.

Oh hey Ironwood is from Atlas. Right, I forgot that. Anyway, he's speechifying that the robot guards that we...just sort of have, are just "Fine", and "fine" isn't good enough, so he reveals his sleeker, cooler models that totally won't kill everyone or be secretly evil. They're called The Elysium Knights, which...is about as blunt a name as you can get.

"And admitidly a little less scary" and then the robots start doing jokey poses. I...I don't know, that's just not funny in the slightest. Also, question, he mentions that "Elysium has always tried to think of ways of keeping men safe from the battlefield", and I GET that, but if that's the case why have Huntsmen then? Also the actual question I had because I got side tracked if he's from Atlas, what is Elysium? Is it his company? Because if so that's REALLY unsubtle. I get it dude, robot>humans, make robot paradise. Hooray.

Ironwood has a bandaid on his forehead. Unless it's just some random metal patch connected to him, it looks weird. Anyway, he reveals the mechwalker from the trailer, the Elysium Paladin. Again, very subtle, much robot, wow. I'll be honest I think this is REALLY cool, I just don't care because I know this is going to go to a "humans are much more better at saving the day then robots" plot line.

Anywy, Penny says they should leave, but only after the entire presentation is over. This allows the guards time to spot them, and two chase after. As our heroes run off said guards almost get run over by a car. Quality villains right here folks.

Ruby knocks over a whole scaffold of boxes to block the guards, and on the one hand this is stupid and ruining someone's stuff but on the other it's Ruby I don't think she cares. She then...randomly runs on the wall for some reason, and only NOW starts using her Speed power, making a weird random crackling noise with her teeth after grabbing Penny and using it to speed off again.

Oh hey we finally get the first time I can do this. I call bull****! Ruby drops Penny on the ground and collapses as she speeds away, and tumbles to the ground into the road. If she can't handle holding a person at that speed, how was she able to do a gigantic high speed drill attack that completely ruined a huge wall and immobilized four people WITHOUT killing said people despite how powerful the attack was?

Penny pushes Ruby out of the way of the oncoming truck instead of Ruby just dodging it so we can learn Penny is a robot. We didn't need this scene because not only did we just...know, this doesn't ACTUALLY prove she's a robot because "anyone with Aura could do this". Also the truck is barely damaged, does it have aura to?

Penny looks at her hands which although are undamaged we know are going to be revealed to be damaged to show her robot bits. Everyone looks at this with interest, including NPCs that just showed up. I don't understand why. Aura exists. This is an every day thing. They're just assume she's a student and move on.

For some god awful reason Ruby asks "how did you do that?" after catching up with Penny, ignoring once again that Aura exists and basically everyone has it. And ignoring the fact that SHE SAW PENNY SLAUGHTER A BUNCH OF WHITE FANG WITH PUPPET SWORDS AND THEN DESTROY LIKE TWO PLOTJETS WITH A GIANT LASER. God Ruby is stupid.

...oh. Oh. OH. **** YOU! **** YOU! **** YOOOOU! I'm ACTUALLY angry about this. The episode is called a minor hiccup because the damage caused by the truck being blocked by her hands is CAUSING HER TO HICCUP. I want to shoot myself. Hyperbole or not this is UNBELIEVABLY STUPID.

Why does it matter that she's a robot? For what it's worth Ruby's reaction is BASICALLY what I'm getting at. "oh". Yeah, you're a robot. Whatever.

And that's the episode! My thoughts: It was alright. Had some decent scenes. They continue to push this "limited animation look at how silly it is for Neptune to wobble like that" joke which isn't funny, and the reveal of the robots isn't really that impressive.

My BIGGEST flaw with this episode is like the last minute of it. Penny stops a truck with her bare hands. We've seen people shatter giant stone pillars by hitting people into it with watermelons. This is stuff that is known to happen and exist. Aura makes all of this completely impossible and stupid because they have no reason to not assume it's just Aura. I do not understand what they are trying to accomplish here.

GPuzzle

2014-08-07, 08:25 PM

Weiss.....huh....he was so clearly putting on a mask, and not in a comfortable way. for someone I first pegged as social rich girl, she seems bad at being social, or at least uncomfortable with applying the techniques of being social. she even practiced facial expressions before having the conversation and she was clearly not liking having to do it. a lot of Weiss seems to be a facade. she puts on a mask of leadership and superiority at first to strangers, she puts on a mask of bitterness and logic to people who know her, she puts on a mask of politeness when speaking to anything related to her family. who is the real Weiss here?

I'm gonna place my bets on "none of those".

I'm interested in Weiss' sister, actually.

By the way, crazy theory time:

Jaune doesn't know how to fight because his father died before he could teach him - you know, since the sword has been passed down by so many generations, they've got to have perfected a technique. But something made it so Jaune didn't learn that technique, and now he's haunted by the idea of being a failure.

A theory, perhaps not the best.

And a second thing:

What, exactly, is RWBY's genre?

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 08:28 PM

Lastly: Lazodiac: No, they don't need to teach the Robot to love or have friends. They need to teach her how to be at peace with herself. it's not "Can the machine have feelings" its "Helping a sentient being that's new to the world understand and cope with her feelings."

Oh, and convincing other people that she's not Just a gun with legs, a voice box and a face.

We'll see. I don't see how it can be a question as she obviously has feelings.

Also I'm so happy to see more then just me calling bull**** on Penny stopping the truck being at all exceptional.

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 08:31 PM

So I have no strong feelings about this episode one way or the other. It wasn't great, but it wasn't bad, either. Although I'm starting to venture more into the "Sun is a total douche" camp now.

This episode did, however, have several fridge logic moments for me.

1. Why do the elevators require scrolls to use?

2. How can Remnant have killer robots and holographic communication displays, but no cell phones? And why is the public communication room that public, with all of the calls taking place in one room with nothing preventing people from eavesdropping? Seems like bad design.

3. Does Weiss really have the authority to obtain "sensitive documents" from the Schnee company? It's her father's company, not hers, and I severely doubt she's a shareholder, or at least a large enough shareholder to have that kind of pull. If the documents are sensitive enough that the employee had to question transferring them to Weiss, it was kind of stupid that she would transfer them over a public channel to an insecure Scroll.

4. Why is everyone so shocked at Penny's ability to stop cars with her bare hands when we've previously seen Aura-users perform similar feats, like Ren KO-ing the snake?

5. Why is Ironwood doing his weapons demonstration in the middle of the town square, instead of a more closed-off area like a stadium or a military base? Why is it that no police or military personnel seem to be watching his demonstration? Hell, why isn't Ironwood at his own demonstration? And why is he giving this demonstration in Vale instead of in Atlas, whose citizens are going to actually be the ones protected by these things?

1: We don't know that they do. We know that one elevator in one building does. If it's a Schee building per the implications, it might have been an employee elivator.

2: I'm willing to bet the Scrolls work like higher tech smart phones, among possible other things. Beyond that, why do internet cafe's and Wifi hotspots get so many people using face time and skyp? Same basic thing.

3: Decent question. but given that she's probably next or one after next in line to inhearet said company, as her father inhereted it form his father, that would tend to boost her pull. And it's certainly not to late for it to be reveiled that the employee was also talking to someone on the board including possibly her father or sister off screen (I.E. with out wiesses knowledge.) who Oked it for reasons that will be explained later.

4: When Ren did it there was a visable energy effect. Penny didn't have that. Or the kind of wind up that would suggest it was a thing she learned to do with training. It was more the stance of someone who's just got that kind of muscle strenght.

Even if there assuming she's a huntress or something over that, meeting a hunter/huntress on the street is implied to be not that common in ep 1.

5: Wanted and easy to impress audiance so he could get a favorable reaction? (Getting people out of harms way in combat sells better to general masses then hardend military brass in ficiton usually.) Is doing it as part of a PR campaign to try and get the public behind the project cause Military Brass arn't sold on the idea but if he can get public opinion and possibly by exstention politial winds behind him it might make them change there tune? Take your pick.

Lord Raziere

2014-08-07, 08:33 PM

Ramza00

2014-08-07, 08:50 PM

1. Why do the elevators require scrolls to use?

They did not require scrolls to enter the elevator. They required scrolls to enter a certain floor. A communication tower which is the only way to reach other continents is a logistical landmark that has strategic strength if you want to rule or do something nasty to the rulers.

Thus make sure only certain people can board the tower, and tracking their movements is only tactical sense.

Point 2 and 3
You assume their society and technical knowledge is similar to ours. We can't assume democratic things such as a share holders for a public company. For all you know they work on feudalism.

As for holograms, perhaps Dust makes it easier to make visual technology over sound. Or the creators just like the flavor this type of technology brings.

5. Why is Ironwood doing his weapons demonstration in the middle of the town square, instead of a more closed-off area like a stadium or a military base? Why is it that no police or military personnel seem to be watching his demonstration? Hell, why isn't Ironwood at his own demonstration? And why is he giving this demonstration in Vale instead of in Atlas, whose citizens are going to be the ones actually protected by these things?

It is showing off such as a world's fair. It is a way for nation/company X to be nationalistic. Flex those ideological muscles, show how person X is making the world a better place.

Going door to door showing it off to the common man means it is on everyone's mind. You want it to be in public spaces so the public sees your demonstrations.

We also have no indication that it has not been before show off to world leaders. Ruby is not much of high status person in this world...so far.

I...don't see any reason for this outfit change, but alright. Lets see where it goes. If this is a super secret mission maybe this is "sneaking clothes" or whatever.
merchandising. See OOTS 959 (aka the most recent one)

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 08:51 PM

merchandising. See OOTS 959 (aka the most recent one)

This isn't a good excuse, you realize.

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 08:51 PM

Well perhaps if Aura was involved, there would be more of a lightshow on Penny's super strength thing? Aura/Semblance does tend to have certain special effects associated with them, so maybe people assume that if someone were to have a super-strength semblance, it would be y'know.....more like a Solar Exalted lighting up all golden like while doing it, rather than just it happening without anything flashy, and people are confused, because don't people normally light up all magic like when they do that?

This. And again, the implicaton from earlier on is that Hunters and Huntresses are not all that common in the grand scheme of things. So yeah, the suprise isn't that big a deal.

Incidentally Zodiac, Ruby was probably expecting withing 10-20 libs of her own body weight at most when she tried that super speed stunt to get them out of there. Being that penny unbeknownst to Ruby at the time is a Robot, its safe to assume that Penny is a very good deal heavier then she seems (Lots of combat grade real world metals weigh more then bone and skin for example, and who's to say in a world like Remnent they don't weight even more?" and that caught her off guard. If ruby had known in advance, she likely would not have had a problem.

And incidentally, this is a way you challenge powerful protagonists. Have them be caught off guard at times.

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 08:55 PM

This. And again, the implicaton from earlier on is that Hunters and Huntresses are not all that common in the grand scheme of things. So yeah, the suprise isn't that big a deal.

Incidentally Zodiac, Ruby was probably expecting withing 10-20 libs of her own body weight at most when she tried that super speed stunt to get them out of there. Being that penny unbeknownst to Ruby at the time is a Robot, its safe to assume that Penny is a very good deal heavier then she seems (Lots of combat grade real world metals weigh more then bone and skin for example, and who's to say in a world like Remnent they don't weight even more?" and that caught her off guard. If ruby had known in advance, she likely would not have had a problem.

And incidentally, this is a way you challenge powerful protagonists. Have them be caught off guard at times.

I still feel from the level of power she is shown to have, that Ruby would of been fine. I do however also note that this is probably the case, and would explain the weird noise she made.

Also, no. Almost ever NPC we've seen so far, in or out of school, has had a Beacon school uniform on. These are hunters and huntress's literally just walking around the streets. It is impossible to assume that "people just don't encounter them very often". Additionally, even if they didn't, they'd still KNOW about them, and be going "oh wow, was that a Huntress?" instead of "How'd she do that". The fact that Aura is universal enough for random smucko Whitefang goons to have it so that they don't die from an airplane being exploded around them invalidates the ability for people in universe who are smarter then Jaune to know what it is.

Either that or it's just a straight up plothole.

Gespenst Ritter

2014-08-07, 09:01 PM

1: We don't know that they do. We know that one elevator in one building does. If it's a Schee building per the implications, it might have been an employee elivator.

2: I'm willing to bet the Scrolls work like higher tech smart phones, among possible other things. Beyond that, why do internet cafe's and Wifi hotspots get so many people using face time and skyp? Same basic thing.

3: Decent question. but given that she's probably next or one after next in line to inhearet said company, as her father inhereted it form his father, that would tend to boost her pull. And it's certainly not to late for it to be reveiled that the employee was also talking to someone on the board including possibly her father or sister off screen (I.E. with out wiesses knowledge.) who Oked it for reasons that will be explained later.

4: When Ren did it there was a visable energy effect. Penny didn't have that. Or the kind of wind up that would suggest it was a thing she learned to do with training. It was more the stance of someone who's just got that kind of muscle strenght.

Even if there assuming she's a huntress or something over that, meeting a hunter/huntress on the street is implied to be not that common in ep 1.

5: Wanted and easy to impress audiance so he could get a favorable reaction? (Getting people out of harms way in combat sells better to general masses then hardend military brass in ficiton usually.) Is doing it as part of a PR campaign to try and get the public behind the project cause Military Brass arn't sold on the idea but if he can get public opinion and possibly by exstention politial winds behind him it might make them change there tune? Take your pick.

1. Don't most employee elevators require you do swipe in your ID card before you get inside the elevator?

2. I don't think they do. Ruby mentions that the communication towers were designed as a way for people across the world to be able to communicate with each other, implying that that's the method they still use. Additionally, Weiss said if they needed to make a call, they could have done it from the library, not from her Scroll. This means they needed some sort of communication device other than their scroll to make the call and get the files. Which is odd seeing as the Scrolls can apparently send and receive data already.

3. How could she be talking to someone without Weiss's knowledge? It's a video phone. What, was she making sign language or written notes under the table or something? She may be next to inherit the company (we don't even know that much), but she's still a minor who likely has little to no control over the company's activities. And even if she somehow was in authority to have those files, there's still the fact that sensitive information was sent over a publicly-accessible channel to a teenage girl's Scroll.

Also, you're going to use company secrets in a "school project?" Really? That doesn't sound the least bit suspicious?

4. There aren't any shiny visual effects when Aura is used to survive crashing through solid brick or deflecting bullets. And even if you assume that the general populace would be surprised to see an Aura-user on the streets, there's no reason why Ruby should be going "How did you do that!?" instead of "Oh, you're a Huntress, too."

5. I see no reason why the military wouldn't be behind it. Good military commanders always want more ways to preserve lives. And even if they're the typical fictional evil "All our men are expendable!" type of military brass, Ironwood could still sell them as being "Soldiers that are easier to control and will always obey your orders." That tends to go over well with them.

If this was still going to be a public event aimed to the people (but why it would be to the people of Vale and not that of Atlus I have no idea), I still think it should be in a stadium or something instead of the town square. In the event that one of your killer robots goes haywire, you'd have an easier time containing the situation in a more closed-off area than if they went rampaging in the middle of the streets, in what I'm assuming is one of the more densely-populated areas of the city.

Kd7sov

2014-08-07, 09:17 PM

Also, no. Almost ever NPC we've seen so far, in or out of school, has had a Beacon school uniform on. These are hunters and huntress's literally just walking around the streets. It is impossible to assume that "people just don't encounter them very often". Additionally, even if they didn't, they'd still KNOW about them, and be going "oh wow, was that a Huntress?" instead of "How'd she do that".

This, I feel, is a considerable exaggeration. There were a lot of uniforms at the tower today, but that struck me as particularly unusual. Season 1, of course, was full of shadows, but in non-tower city scenes this season it's looked to me like almost exclusively civilian clothes - very little that particularly resembles either Beacon uniforms or the general aesthetic of the major characters' battle clothes. Or RWBY's new clothes, which I don't even.

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 09:19 PM

This, I feel, is a considerable exaggeration. There were a lot of uniforms at the tower today, but that struck me as particularly unusual. Season 1, of course, was full of shadows, but in non-tower city scenes this season it's looked to me like almost exclusively civilian clothes - very little that particularly resembles either Beacon uniforms or the general aesthetic of the major characters' battle clothes. Or RWBY's new clothes, which I don't even.

Yeah, I probably got a little to loud there. Still though, the point stands that Aura is a thing that everyone knows about, and the abilities of the Hunters and Huntress's are well known. It still confused me that anyone is even remotely surprised by that Penny did, even if they've never met a Hunter in person before. And ESPECIALLY RUBY shouldn't be surprised by this.

Gespenst Ritter

2014-08-07, 09:25 PM

They did not require scrolls to enter the elevator. They required scrolls to enter a certain floor. A communication tower which is the only way to reach other continents is a logistical landmark that has strategic strength if you want to rule or do something nasty to the rulers.

Thus make sure only certain people can board the tower, and tracking their movements is only tactical sense.

Hurry for the lack of freedom of information? Somehow Vale doesn't seem like the type to do something like that.

It would have made more sense if she got on the elevator like normal without an ID, but upon reaching the communications floor she had to present her scroll to use the terminals, like showing a library card or something.

You assume their society and technical knowledge is similar to ours. We can't assume democratic things such as a share holders for a public company. For all you know they work on feudalism.

As for holograms, perhaps Dust makes it easier to make visual technology over sound. Or the creators just like the flavor this type of technology brings.
I'd sooner believe that there exists some hierarchy in the Schnee Dust Company that extends beyond Father -> Weiss -> Winter. Not to mention, whenever they're talked about, it's always as if they're like a modern corporation doing modern corporation things.

Transmitting visuals is easier than sound? Take even a small glance at the history of communication technology and you'll see that's incredibly untrue. And it would suspend my disbelief too much to imagine that Remnant's physics are so screwed up that that visuals are the easiest data to transmit.

(Unless you meant visuals overlapping with sound, in which case scratch that prior statement.)

In any case, we know portable wireless communication technology already exists in some form. We've seen Ozpin getting email, and there has to be some remote control timing Ironwood's robots. So it's not at all a stretch to think that with that, and all the other high-tech goings on here that they'd have cell phones.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-08-07, 09:30 PM

Quite a bit of it here now that I think about it.

Vale festival is starting to look like a cross between World Expo and the Olympics.

The fact that Ironwood sells combat frames to the public as an effort to preserve human lives suggests either an extremely high cost of training a soldier, or high value of human life. Or, likely, both. Brass in all ages has always been receptive to something that saves the lives of professional soldiers. Why? Because they take a long time to train and get significantly better as they gain combat experience. They're also damn hard to replace, and the value of high-quality veteran soldiers has been demonstrated by everyone from Leonidas, Caesar and Belizarius to Frederick I and Zhukov. It's levies/conscripts generals don't care about and use as cannon fodder, since they're crappy soldiers, and "there's always more."

They don't have satellites or a world-wide wired network (else Weiss could just call from her scroll). Either option suggests a small population, since their technology is obviously ahead of ours. Remnant just doesn't have the resources to lay down dozens of cables under the ocean. The comm tower is probably a giant radio antenna or a microwave relay.

The poor guy from Dust to Dawn. He's like the Hans Moleman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Moleman) of RWBY.

So I have no strong feelings about this episode one way or the other. It wasn't great, but it wasn't bad, either. Although I'm starting to venture more into the "Sun is a total douche" camp now.
Ans is all the more awesome for it!

1. Why do the elevators require scrolls to use?
Most likely as some form of sign-in before entering a strategic communicaitons area or something. You know, like showing your ID before boarding a plane/crossing the border. Or she might have just used it as a credit card to pay for access.

2. How can Remnant have killer robots and holographic communication displays, but no cell phones? And why is the public communication room that public, with all of the calls taking place in one room with nothing preventing people from eavesdropping? Seems like bad design.
Have you been living under a rock? :smallbiggrin: iScroll 6 is coming out in a few months. It's set to feature either a 4.7' or 5.5' projectable screen. But it's made by Schnee Fruit Company so good luck changing the interface and you're paying double for rounded edges and a snowflake on the back. Still better than AnRobot.

3. Does Weiss really have the authority to obtain "sensitive documents" from the Schnee company? It's her father's company, not hers, and I severely doubt she's a shareholder, or at least a large enough shareholder to have that kind of pull. If the documents are sensitive enough that the employee had to question transferring them to Weiss, it was kind of stupid that she would transfer them over a public channel to an insecure Scroll.
They're sensitive, but they're not Google's-new-patent sensitive. The kind of stuff you usually wouldn't let strangers know about for reasons, but not the kind of stuff you send assassins after people either. Secretary's behaviour seems perfectly reasonable.

5. Why is Ironwood doing his weapons demonstration in the middle of the town square, instead of a more closed-off area like a stadium or a military base? Why is it that no police or military personnel seem to be watching his demonstration? Hell, why isn't Ironwood at his own demonstration? And why is he giving this demonstration in Vale instead of in Atlas, whose citizens are going to be the ones actually protected by these things?
He's probably doing multiple demonstrations in parallel. Or it's a recording. In either case, he's likely showing off cool stuff to an allied nation - there's a bunch here in Canada where Yanks come by with tanks, fighter jets, new guns, etc, and show them to whoever wants to come by. There's probably similar stuff in NATO countries too. He's not bidding and showing classified technology for a defense contract to government officials.

Well perhaps if Aura was involved, there would be more of a lightshow on Penny's super strength thing? Aura/Semblance does tend to have certain special effects associated with them, so maybe people assume that if someone were to have a super-strength semblance, it would be y'know.....more like a Solar Exalted lighting up all golden like while doing it, rather than just it happening without anything flashy, and people are confused, because don't people normally light up all magic like when they do that?

Or alternatively, it's like seeing a doctor perform CPR on a random pedestrian going into cardiac arrest. Sure, you might have seen doctors and saw them do it on TV, but it's still a big deal when it happens in the middle of the street because it's not the kind of thing you see or expect to see every day.

...But first, let me take a selfie!

Also, you're going to use company secrets in a "school project?" Really? That doesn't sound the least bit suspicious?

"Hey, Jane. No, I don't want to talk to dad. Can you tell me about the recent break ins we had at the warehouse, like when they happened and how much did the crooks steal? Oh, it's for a school project at the police academy."

That's kinda how that exchange went down in my head. Hunters are heavily hinted to be auxiliary high-firepower law enforcement, and a random secretary probably wouldn't know about much about cirriculum at a hunters' academy.

Rawhide

2014-08-07, 10:49 PM

You guys, jumping the thread ahead ten pages in my absence.

Anyway, I finally saw the second episode. It's pretty good by RWBY's standards. as so many people have posted their reviews, I'll just do my general impressions.

- I liked the conversation between Ironwood and Ozpin. It set up their stances on leadership and the way they both react to the current events sets up ther similarities and differences well. And I loved the bird's eye shots that showed the gears and their shadows on the office.

- The card game is both annoying and funny. Some of it makes me laugh, some makes me ant to do something painful with rusty metal. There is a good amount of exposition in there, but I can't remember it. :smallredface:

- Jaune is still in joke butt mode. I wish we could see another side to him, even if it is his trying-to-hard-to-be-cool from the first volume. I suppose it's a good thing, as it shows that he's matured enough that he isn't as fussed about being the perpetual loser. It's just a bit demeaning to see him being used as the primary joke material when he could be so much more. (I did like 'My mother... and Pyrrha!'/'Hello again! bit, though)

- Sun finally introduces Neptune. Neptune has the personality of a brick. Ok, a nicely polished brick, due to his smooth attitude, but still a rectangular building thing. I like the idea that he's a reflection of Jaune, but he needs a personality to reflect that. Ignoring that, they've set up a nice start if they wish to go that route, with Neptune effortlessly doing what Jaune wants to do, because he's cool.

- I expected the drama scene of Blake to turn up early in the volume and was right. I expect to see the mech rampage by episode 6, and the highway chase by ep 4. Not sure if this needs to be spoiler'd as it was in the trailer, but better safe than sorry. I think the jumping on the idea makes sense: Blake's not got much faith in the current authorities, Yang's up for anything violent, Ruby is impulsive, idealistic and apparently hasn't grasped the idea of harm or death to one's self, while Wiess is probably exercising her Good Teammate lessons. Wacky chair stuff is wacky, but we've seen this before and Wiess does have a tendency to the melodramatic.

- I like the flashback. It shows that once again, Ozpin knows a lot about what goes on in Beacon. My guess is that it takes place after the fight with Roman, but it's just a guess.

- Team CME's infiltration is ok with me, as the problems raised have been answered. I'm not sure why nobody recognises Cinder, as she's probably been a student of one of the academies of the kingdoms. If she hasn't, I'm wondering where she came from and how she got so powerful without formal tution.

Rawhide, let's drop the argument. You'd pretty much won as I'd seen that Rwby were supporting each other, and was more arguing the details, though I hope not to the level of pedantry.

Also, can I sig the 'taking a/the piss' exchange? :smallbiggrin:

Couple of notes:
1) Please remember to label your spoilers. You technically did mention it, in the text above, but it would be handy to keep at least a shorthand version of the episode number in the box's title.

2) You don't need to spoiler box speculation not containing information from the most recent episode and, additionally, if you are already within a spoiler box for the most recent episode, you don't need an additional spoiler. Note: Leaked information and speculation based on leaked information must be within a spoiler box until it is revealed officially.

---

- I like the flashback. It shows that once again, Ozpin knows a lot about what goes on in Beacon. My guess is that it takes place after the fight with Roman, but it's just a guess.

I'm fairly certain is was pretty soon afterwards. Possibly even at the police station after they had given their formal statements, Ozpin may have asked to speak with his students afterwards before they had been let go.

Rawhide, let's drop the argument. You'd pretty much won as I'd seen that Rwby were supporting each other, and was more arguing the details, though I hope not to the level of pedantry.

I don't like to see it as winning or losing, and the word argument can have two very different meanings. So, to be clear, I am more than happy to, as I term it, argue in the academic sense, to present positions and counter positions, discuss, and hopefully reach a conclusion. I don't ever want to be arguing in a sense where people are getting angry or just trying to be "right".

But, to answer your question, yes sure. Discussion over. :smallwink:

Also, can I sig the 'taking a/the piss' exchange? :smallbiggrin:

Seems like you already have.

---

Sheldon is definitely not a sociopath. Does he feel guilt? Yes. Can he lie well? Nope. Is he superficially glib? Nope. Does he selfishly manipulate everyone to get what he wants? Sure, if you define manipulation as whining until everyone gives in so he shuts up. He's also terrified of negative consequences so much, this alone prevents him from being a psychopath. Sheldon really only has 2 of the main traits: grandiose sense of self worth and inability to form deep emotional attachments. On the other hand, he entirely does not understand social conventions (or even the reasons behind them), is unable to read body language or sarcasm, does not know when he comes off as rude, uses rules of etiquette in lieu of empathy, does not actually display much empathy, is completely entranced by trains... the list goes on, but it all boils down to "he can't read people or understand social interaction." He just comes off as flamboyant and animated because his actor is.

I have not seen every episode, because, well, it's an absolutely terrible show I just don't enjoy or find funny, but from what I've seen he fits none of the characteristics of Asperger's Syndrome and many of those of a sociopath.

I disagree with most of that, such as: Does he feel guilt? He's shown to feign guilt when the damage he's caused comes back to affect him. This is one of the most important parts. He lacks the empathy necessary to care about his friends, even after it has been made clear to him how he has hurt him.

But, as I'm not exceptionally well versed in sociopathy/psychopathy/antisocial personality disorder, I won't argue this point, only to maintain that it is definitely not Asperger's Syndrome. I have no training in sociopathy, while for Asperger's Syndrome, as part of the training, I've even watched diagnostic assessment training DVDs, presented by the leading psychologist for other psychologists. It is also provided to teachers in order for them to identify students with it and refer them to a psychologist for a formal diagnosis. I am definitely not qualified to make a formal assessment, but I know enough about it to argue against it in Sheldon's case. Leonard fits much closer to the diagnostic criteria and common characteristics.

---

When do the episodes usually come out on youtube? I'm wanting to know because my current location only allows youtube access currently.

A week later. So this Thursday, Episode 2 comes onto Youtube.

Okay thanks.

In case anyone was wondering, this is one reason I ask for you to keep spoiling it for a week.

---

...Hey, I wasn't the only one thinking it.

Also, Neptune confirmed as a cooler Jaune. But hey, Neville Longbottom Jaune might finally notice that Ginny Weasly Pyrrha has been there for him the entire time!

Is it just me, or are they setting up several parallel adventure episodes? This one was Ruby, Weiss and Penny. Next one is monkey business. But hey, they might even make it to the White Fang hangout later. Tonight at 10, local crime hangout - a literal warzone, after a suspected rival gangster was insulted by never actually getting a little umbrella in her drink. Interview with a well-armed college kid at 10:30 - what did innocent bystanders think about the whole affair? In other news, club favourite, DJ Deadb3ar, cancels his upcoming concert due to a hiking accident with a shotgun.

Please include the volume & chapter number in the spoiler title.

---

So I have no strong feelings about this episode one way or the other. It wasn't great, but it wasn't bad, either. Although I'm starting to venture more into the "Sun is a total douche" camp now.

This episode did, however, have several fridge logic moments for me.

1. Why do the elevators require scrolls to use?

2. How can Remnant have killer robots and holographic communication displays, but no cell phones? And why is the public communication room that public, with all of the calls taking place in one room with nothing preventing people from eavesdropping? Seems like bad design.

3. Does Weiss really have the authority to obtain "sensitive documents" from the Schnee company? It's her father's company, not hers, and I severely doubt she's a shareholder, or at least a large enough shareholder to have that kind of pull. If the documents are sensitive enough that the employee had to question transferring them to Weiss, it was kind of stupid that she would transfer them over a public channel to an insecure Scroll.

4. Why is everyone so shocked at Penny's ability to stop cars with her bare hands when we've previously seen Aura-users perform similar feats, like Ren KO-ing the snake?

5. Why is Ironwood doing his weapons demonstration in the middle of the town square, instead of a more closed-off area like a stadium or a military base? Why is it that no police or military personnel seem to be watching his demonstration? Hell, why isn't Ironwood at his own demonstration? And why is he giving this demonstration in Vale instead of in Atlas, whose citizens are going to be the ones actually protected by these things?

1. It's a form of Universal ID. That level requires special access and verification on your ID, it's not uncommon for elevators to require ID to certain floors.

2. They needed to transfer large amounts of digital information.

3. You don't question the daughter of the owner. Seriously, even non family can get amazingly far within a company just by looking like they should be there. When the daughter of the owner, who has likely done some form of work for the company and/or been given special treatment within it, asks you for information like she's entitled to it, most people are unlikely to say no. It's called social engineering.

4. I was a little surprised at this one too, but at least as far as the snakes go, they didn't quite have as much momentum.

5. This was likely either a show of power or an attempt to sell them to to the local kingdom. At a guess, there were probably several locations where this was being demonstrated and he was being broadcast to all of them.

---

Also her father is alive so that's...interesting, and throws a lot of theories out.

Which theories? I don't remember any with Weiss Schnee having no father.

Also, question, he mentions that "Elysium has always tried to think of ways of keeping men safe from the battlefield", and I GET that, but if that's the case why have Huntsmen then?

Because they don't yet have robots good enough to replace humans. The Moneypenny secret prototype not withstanding.

---

They did not require scrolls to enter the elevator. They required scrolls to enter a certain floor. A communication tower which is the only way to reach other continents is a logistical landmark that has strategic strength if you want to rule or do something nasty to the rulers.

Thus make sure only certain people can board the tower, and tracking their movements is only tactical sense.

You assume their society and technical knowledge is similar to ours. We can't assume democratic things such as a share holders for a public company. For all you know they work on feudalism.

As for holograms, perhaps Dust makes it easier to make visual technology over sound. Or the creators just like the flavor this type of technology brings.

It is showing off such as a world's fair. It is a way for nation/company X to be nationalistic. Flex those ideological muscles, show how person X is making the world a better place.

Going door to door showing it off to the common man means it is on everyone's mind. You want it to be in public spaces so the public sees your demonstrations.

We also have no indication that it has not been before show off to world leaders. Ruby is not much of high status person in this world...so far.

merchandising. See OOTS 959 (aka the most recent one)

Please include the volume and chapter number in the title. e.g. In your case you might say: "Response to Xyz re V2C3", or "V2C3, response to Xyz"

---

1. Don't most employee elevators require you do swipe in your ID card before you get inside the elevator?

2. I don't think they do. Ruby mentions that the communication towers were designed as a way for people across the world to be able to communicate with each other, implying that that's the method they still use. Additionally, Weiss said if they needed to make a call, they could have done it from the library, not from her Scroll. This means they needed some sort of communication device other than their scroll to make the call and get the files. Which is odd seeing as the Scrolls can apparently send and receive data already.

3. How could she be talking to someone without Weiss's knowledge? It's a video phone. What, was she making sign language or written notes under the table or something? She may be next to inherit the company (we don't even know that much), but she's still a minor who likely has little to no control over the company's activities. And even if she somehow was in authority to have those files, there's still the fact that sensitive information was sent over a publicly-accessible channel to a teenage girl's Scroll.

Also, you're going to use company secrets in a "school project?" Really? That doesn't sound the least bit suspicious?

4. There aren't any shiny visual effects when Aura is used to survive crashing through solid brick or deflecting bullets. And even if you assume that the general populace would be surprised to see an Aura-user on the streets, there's no reason why Ruby should be going "How did you do that!?" instead of "Oh, you're a Huntress, too."

5. I see no reason why the military wouldn't be behind it. Good military commanders always want more ways to preserve lives. And even if they're the typical fictional evil "All our men are expendable!" type of military brass, Ironwood could still sell them as being "Soldiers that are easier to control and will always obey your orders." That tends to go over well with them.

If this was still going to be a public event aimed to the people (but why it would be to the people of Vale and not that of Atlus I have no idea), I still think it should be in a stadium or something instead of the town square. In the event that one of your killer robots goes haywire, you'd have an easier time containing the situation in a more closed-off area than if they went rampaging in the middle of the streets, in what I'm assuming is one of the more densely-populated areas of the city.

1. Not when some of the floors are publicly accessible, and some are limited to different groups.

2. The towers allow communication across vast distances, not unlike our own towers. The library would need to connect to the tower to make the call. They could have transferred the data through the library's systems (though it may have been slower), however even modern day phones are often extremely limited regarding data transfer.

3. I don't think she was, but it is easily possible, we don't see what she's looking at or doing with her hands. If she was, which I really don't think she was it was likely typing/text, not sign language. But, like I said earlier in this post, it makes much more sense as social engineering. The information would have been sent encrypted, through the only channel they have.

4. Ruby was surprised at Moneypenny's capabilities in Volume 1, Episode 16, and is surprised again here at how effortlessly and easily she can do this. As I said earlier in this post, the surprise people showed did surprise me too, but that was a heavy and solid truck going at a decent pace, and Monypenny stopped it in place without moving with it at all, while causing a lot of destruction to the ground. this seems to be greater than what a hunte(ress) can do and walk away seemingly without a scratch.

5. As I mentioned earlier in this post, it's either a show of power or an attempt to sell these robots. Why do it on the streets? To win over the hearts and minds of the general population.

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 10:54 PM

Which theories? I don't remember any with Weiss Schnee having no father.

Weiss mentioned that her Grandfather was really strict to her, right? People theorized that oh maybe her Dad was killed by Faunus or whatever. I forget if it was her Grandfather or Father though.

4. Ruby was surprised at Moneypenny's capabilities in Volume 1, Episode 16, and is surprised again here at how effortlessly and easily she can do this. As I said earlier in this post, the surprise people gave did surprise me too, but that was a heavy and solid truck going at a decent pace, and Monypenny stopped it in place without moving with it at all, while causing a lot of destruction to the ground. this seems to be greater than what a hunte(ress) can do and walk away seemingly without a scratch.

Yang was launched so far up in the air that she didn't fall for three minutes. And went through a stone and wood and presumably metal cieling twice. She was perfectly fine.

Math_Mage

2014-08-07, 10:57 PM

I has reactions.

-Yay, character time that's actual character time!

-Spruce Willis is dumb.

-Aren't there White Fang members who can identify Blake and Sun from the dock incident? Hope they have disguises.

-I guess Sun wanted to hang out for the afternoon? I'll buy that. And yes, you should always get friends involved.

-Yang and Neptune...I'm gonna wildly guess they get relatively little screen time and I'll continue to be frustrated by both characters. Neither of them is exactly a natural viewpoint character. At least we don't have to deal with Weiss chasing Neptune for no reason, Weiss-Neptune-Jaune is the least interesting triangle I've ever seen, and I've seen Legend of Korra.

-Random exposition augh. But these scenes in town make me think about how little of a role society has played in the show up to now. Please change that. I don't want my only interactions with you to be through exposition. :smallfrown:

-Totally normal for Ruby to go after Penny, I approve. But what's Penny doing out and about in the first place? If she snuck out, why doesn't she want to talk? If she didn't sneak out, didn't Ironwood learn anything from the last time he let her wander around unsupervised?

-It's actually pretty normal to have an elevator with the security pass on the inside if only certain floors are secured. But it's not normal to apply that security to a phone booth floor. Security passes are for actual security.

-Weiss' character development certainly beats her character exposition from last volume. If we hadn't had that, we might have actually learned something about her from this episode. Ah, well. At least Schnee Co. employees like her. And Winter exists.

-Ruby and Penny running off to the town square is bad and wrong and bleh. They're supposed to be looking for a quiet/safe/secret place to talk, as in, not in the town center. Vale isn't so large that they can get lost in a crowd. "We couldn't figure out how to get to the next scene so we're forcing it" is written all over this.

-Ironwood doing the Tony Stark thing is fine and all, but trying to make the robots jocular is just silly. Maybe it's supposed to show that he's a touch robotic himself and bad at PR. I dunno. Obvious authoritarian setup is obvious.

-Ruby waiting so long to use her speed is kind of irritating, but we already know that RWBY moves at the Speed of Plot so whatever.

-Penny stopping the truck should have been taken as a Semblance ability by the bystanders, but enough people have already covered that.

-hiccups y

-"I'm not a real girl!" *groan* Okay, fine, Oum, I'll spot you that one.

Better than the first two, for sure. A lot of forced connections, but at least the content being connected is stuff that could hold my interest.

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 11:02 PM

I has reactions.

-hiccups y

-"I'm not a real girl!" *groan* Okay, fine, Oum, I'll spot you that one.

Better than the first two, for sure. A lot of forced connections, but at least the content being connected is stuff that could hold my interest.

Because hiccups in robots mean damaged also gotta make the episode title joke work some how AM I RIGHT GUYS *shoots self*

I was so busy focusing on the sheer audacity of that scene that I didn't really register that she said THAT, specifically. Unsure if want.

Rawhide

2014-08-07, 11:04 PM

I...don't see any reason for this outfit change, but alright. Lets see where it goes. If this is a super secret mission maybe this is "sneaking clothes" or whatever.

Aside from the fact that people don't wear the same clothes day in and day out, and the fact that they have a bigger budget to design and rig new clothing? Well, they could also have been trying to look slightly less conspicuous, especially since many of them had been seen by that roman candle dude.

---

Weiss mentioned that her Grandfather was really strict to her, right? People theorized that oh maybe her Dad was killed by Faunus or whatever. I forget if it was her Grandfather or Father though.

Ah, I think I remember. Either way, I don't think there were a lot of these theories.

Yang was launched so far up in the air that she didn't fall for three minutes. And went through a stone and wood and presumably metal cieling twice. She was perfectly fine.

She had a landing strategy.

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 11:08 PM

Aside from the fact that people don't wear the same clothes day in and day out, and the fact that they have a bigger budget to design and rig new clothing? Well, they could also have been trying to look slightly less conspicuous, especially since many of them had been seen by that roman candle dude.

Noted, though I fail to see how these outfits are less conspicuous then their normal designs.

She had a landing strategy.

She landed on her face Rawhide. I'll accept Aura protected her from damage, but I'll note that if anything weaker the being sent flying into the stratosphere through an apparently concrete roof twice takes her out I'm going to make a fuss about it. Same with every other overpowered feat of amazing awesomeness that was in the food fight. They've made their bed.

Rawhide

2014-08-07, 11:13 PM

Noted, though I fail to see how these outfits are less conspicuous then their normal designs.

We don't yet know a great deal about the fashions of the area.

She landed on her face Rawhide. I'll accept Aura protected her from damage, but I'll note that if anything weaker the being sent flying into the stratosphere through an apparently concrete roof twice takes her out I'm going to make a fuss about it. Same with every other overpowered feat of amazing awesomeness that was in the food fight. They've made their bed.

I was mostly making a joke :smalltongue:. If we want to analyse it, though, both the ceiling and the table she lands on gives way.

---

I'm not a real girl. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_M95CWviH4)

Math_Mage

2014-08-07, 11:14 PM

She had a landing strategy.
And Penny had a truck-stopping strategy...? I mean, this is yet another scene where Oum makes us fridge-logic his narrative when he has no reason to do so. The viewers should be feeling what the bystanders feel, not having to explain away the bystanders' reactions.

Rawhide

2014-08-07, 11:14 PM

And Penny had a truck-stopping strategy...? I mean, this is yet another scene where Oum makes us fridge-logic his narrative when he has no reason to do so. The viewers should be feeling what the bystanders feel, not having to explain away the bystanders' reactions.

Moneypenny is a robot.

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 11:16 PM

I was mostly making a joke :smalltongue:. If we want to analyse it, though, both the ceiling and the table she lands on gives way.

I'll admit I'm just teasing on that one. I know you made a joke :smalltongue:

Brief aside why are you calling her Moneypenny?

Rawhide

2014-08-07, 11:19 PM

Brief aside why are you calling her Moneypenny?

Moneypenny. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Moneypenny)

Math_Mage

2014-08-07, 11:20 PM

Moneypenny is a robot.
Yes, and...?

Though I should amend my previous point--the viewers should be in sympathy with Penny, going "Oshi-, she blew her cover!" instead of wondering "How is this blowing her cover when there are boatloads of mages Hunters/Huntresses running around?" We've already seen her BEAM CANNON so there's no point trying to make us feel like the bystanders do.

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 11:20 PM

Moneypenny. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Moneypenny)

Aaah, okay. This is exactly the type of reference I'd expect from Oum, so good job :smallbiggrin:

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 11:21 PM

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 11:25 PM

Zodiac: I'm 95% sure that she had said it was her father in that ep. Not her Grandfather. I'm also rather certain I recall a lot of the theory's being that her mother died. More specifically, that her mother was killed by the white fang.

As for the stopping the truck. Go look at the snake scene with Ren. You will notice a visible, glowing force field around his hands when he stops the big hit that otherwise would have finished him. When pulling stunts like that, Aura is visible. Semblances are More Visible. And it would follow that this is common knowledge. Thus the crowd is confused at how she stopped the truck with no visible signs of aura of semblance.

Lastly, the Hiccups? What did pinocchio due when he wasn't telling the truth? His nose grew. That's probably a bit much even for this series, but Hiccups? That's doable. Think about it.

When Nora sent Yang flying through the cieling there wasn't any special aura. Same with basically every other feet of extreme strength. We've seen nothing that suggests anything but a specific Aura power like Ruby's speed or Ren's assumed barrier powers create an actual effect that can be seen.

She was not lying in that scene. She was talking around the subject, or preparing Ruby for it, ensuring things would be okay, but she was not lying.

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 11:28 PM

When Nora sent Yang flying through the cieling there wasn't any special aura. Same with basically every other feet of extreme strength. We've seen nothing that suggests anything but a specific Aura power like Ruby's speed or Ren's assumed barrier powers create an actual effect that can be seen.

She was not lying in that scene. She was talking around the subject, or preparing Ruby for it, ensuring things would be okay, but she was not lying.

And the only times we've ever seen them head on stop something big coming at them cold in it's tracks with any success till now there has been a special effect involved.

Also, she was being less then 100% forthright and honest about the information. By omission and all that. There are people who will insist that even that much is lying. And all it would take is one of them to be writing some of the code for her morals/ethics, and there you go.

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 11:31 PM

And the only times we've ever seen them head on stop something big coming at them cold in it's tracks with any success till now there has been a special effect involved.

Also, she was being less then 100% forthright and honest about the information. By omission and all that. There are people who will insist that even that much is lying. And all it would take is one of them to be writing some of the code for her morals/ethics, and there you go.

She also just took a truck to the face. Although it might be interesting if, when trying to "lie" and therefor break her code since she's a robot and programed to always tell the truth, her voice disc "skipped" and thus caused a hiccuping like sound, I don't think that's the case JUST this second.

Rawhide

2014-08-07, 11:33 PM

Yes, and...?

I'm sorry, but I don't have a clue what point you're trying to make.

---

Moneypenny also hiccups in their first meeting, right after she lies about Ruby being confused.

Also relevant. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXKlC8ph7mM)

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 11:34 PM

Based on the fire power we've seen her use and the sheer strength you'd need to stop the truck (note: done with hands, not face, she was ready and blocked it instead of tanking it.) I've gotta assume she's a military design with combat in mind. I'd hope she'd be a lot tougher then that, particularly given the power curve for the rest of the world we've seen so far.

Math_Mage

2014-08-07, 11:35 PM

And the only times we've ever seen them head on stop something big coming at them cold in it's tracks with any success till now there has been a special effect involved.

Also, she was being less then 100% forthright and honest about the information. By omission and all that. There are people who will insist that even that much is lying. And all it would take is one of them to be writing some of the code for her morals/ethics, and there you go.
As with Rawhide, my response is "Yes, and...?" The only reason we can even surmise that Penny's feat was unusual was because the bystanders reacted that way. That shouldn't be the only indicator. It's a sloppy way of telling the viewer what to think.

LaZodiac

2014-08-07, 11:38 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't have a clue what point you're trying to make.

---

Moneypenny also hiccups in their first meeting, right after she lies about Ruby being confused.

Also relevant. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXKlC8ph7mM)

I don't recall that at all.

Based on the fire power we've seen her use and the sheer strength you'd need to stop the truck (note: done with hands, not face, she was ready and blocked it instead of tanking it.) I've gotta assume she's a military design with combat in mind. I'd hope she'd be a lot tougher then that, particularly given the power curve for the rest of the world we've seen so far.

The face comment was a joke. And firepower does not equal defensive power. And trust me I've seen my fair of ****ty robots designed for combat that get ganked by boomerangs. And at one point a normal human cold cocked one in the face and killed it. Just because it's military design doesn't mean it's actually good.

Oh man subtle plugging myself sort of and then unsubtlting it by saying this~

Rawhide

2014-08-07, 11:39 PM

As with Rawhide, my response is "Yes, and...?" The only reason we can even surmise that Penny's feat was unusual was because the bystanders reacted that way. That shouldn't be the only indicator.

I disagree. Bystander reaction can be a very important part of film making. Watch the special features for Fight Club.

There is a particularly grotesque fight scene. They showed that scene to test audiences and got no reaction. They added bystanders being horrified, the test audiences were horrified by the fight. Nothing else changed.

Math_Mage

2014-08-07, 11:45 PM

I disagree. Bystander reaction can be a very important part of film making. Watch the special features for Fight Club.

There is a particularly grotesque fight scene. They showed that scene to test audiences and got no reaction. They added bystanders being horrified, the test audiences were horrified by the fight. Nothing else changed.
I used the word "only". I didn't say bystander reaction wasn't important. Bystander reaction was presumably not the only way one could tell the fight scene was grotesque--it added an emotional layer to what was already there.

The reason I say things like "Yes, and...?" is because you keep doing this sort of thing--making arguments that don't address the point I am making, or that assume I meant something more than what I said. It gets old.

Metahuman1

2014-08-07, 11:55 PM

Zodiac: I know it was meant as a joke, but it is kinda an important distinction for this purpose. Also, I like "Programming/mental issue" as an explanation far far more then I like "They spent all that time and energy and money to make a prototype less durable then freshmen hunter/huntress trainee's."

I mentioned the offensive power cause that indicates military, and for something like this in a world with powers at that level being a thing and the kinds of bigger Grim we've seen already, it would be a baseline "duh" kind of thing that something like Penny would need at least a comparable defense. At least when the part that got impacted directly was A: not connected to what allows her to talk, and B: a part you would assume would be taking a lot of the brunt of both offensive and defensive impacts.

Math: by your logic, most anime, fantasy and Sci-fi are horribly done because due to being in worlds that don't play by our rules, we need characters/background characters to inform us when something is out of place for that world. Touch broad of a position to be taking, don't you think?

Gespenst Ritter

2014-08-08, 12:14 AM

I'm sorry, but I don't have a clue what point you're trying to make.He put in an addendum to that post, if you didn't realize.

Math: by your logic, most anime, fantasy and Sci-fi are horribly done because due to being in worlds that don't play by our rules, we need characters/background characters to inform us when something is out of place for that world. Touch broad of a position to be taking, don't you think?

That's not really the point.

Aura and Dust as shown so far in RWBY have displayed an incredibly wide range of effects and have yet to display any quantifiable set of rules or limitations to their usage. There hasn't been anything along the lines of "You can't normally combine two different chakra elements" or "Dying Will Flames come in one of seven types." When one of those rules is broken ("Did he just combine Water and Wind to make Ice?" "There are Dying Will Flames of the Earth, too?"), it's immediately apparent both to the viewers and to the characters in the story. There's no baseline that's been established as ordinary for Dust and Aura. So as a consequence there's no reason to see why Penny's particular feats are abnormal within the context of the universe. She stopped a truck. Normal Aura users have done things that are arguably more impressive. So why such the big deal?

Rawhide

2014-08-08, 12:16 AM

I used the word "only". I didn't say bystander reaction wasn't important. Bystander reaction was presumably not the only way one could tell the fight scene was grotesque--it added an emotional layer to what was already there.

The reason I say things like "Yes, and...?" is because you keep doing this sort of thing--making arguments that don't address the point I am making, or that assume I meant something more than what I said. It gets old.

I completely fail to see what Penny being able to stop the truck because she's a robot has to do with my joke about Yang "having a landing strategy", so I responded the only way possible. Penny was able to stop the truck because she was a robot. It answered what you said exactly. Your response about the "truck stopping strategy" is, as far as I can see, completely irrelevant to what I had said to LaZodiac.

Penny did something extraordinary to a normal human, even one as overpowered as hunters and huntresses. Yang didn't. Penny's "truck stopping strategy" was that she new she could, or should at least try.

Math_Mage

2014-08-08, 12:18 AM

Math: by your logic, most anime, fantasy and Sci-fi are horribly done because due to being in worlds that don't play by our rules, we need characters/background characters to inform us when something is out of place for that world. Touch broad of a position to be taking, don't you think?
That extrapolation is entirely yours, Metahuman--just because you misinterpret my position in a way that broadens it does not make my position broad.

I completely fail to see what Penny being able to stop the truck because she's a robot has to do with my joke about Yang "having a landing strategy", so I responded the only way possible. Penny was able to stop the truck because she was a robot. It answered what you said exactly. Your response about the "truck stopping strategy" is, as far as I can see, completely irrelevant to what I had said to LaZodiac.

Penny did something extraordinary to a normal human, even one as overpowered as hunters and huntresses. Yang didn't. Penny's "truck stopping strategy" was that she new she could, or should at least try.
Your post deflected LaZodiac's point with a (humorous?) proposed break in the analogy. I applied the equivalent to Penny to reestablish the analogy. It should have been clear from the rest of my post that I was talking seriously about the verisimilitude of the reaction to Penny's truck-stopping feat.

My basic point is that Penny's feat doesn't seem extraordinary to the viewer except for the reaction it caused in the bystanders, because there hasn't been any rationalization of Aura/Dust power limits for Penny's feat to defy.

Sith_Happens

2014-08-08, 12:32 AM

Weiss.....huh....he was so clearly putting on a mask, and not in a comfortable way. for someone I first pegged as social rich girl, she seems bad at being social, or at least uncomfortable with applying the techniques of being social. she even practiced facial expressions before having the conversation and she was clearly not liking having to do it. a lot of Weiss seems to be a facade. she puts on a mask of leadership and superiority at first to strangers, she puts on a mask of bitterness and logic to people who know her, she puts on a mask of politeness when speaking to anything related to her family. who is the real Weiss here?

Weiss herself probably doesn't know the answer to that question. See: "Mirror, Mirror" lyrics.

Tonight at 10, local crime hangout - a literal warzone, after a suspected rival gangster was insulted by never actually getting a little umbrella in her drink. Interview with a well-armed college kid at 10:30 - what did innocent bystanders think about the whole affair? In other news, club favourite, DJ Deadb3ar, cancels his upcoming concert due to a hiking accident with a shotgun.

...You win the thread.

What, exactly, is RWBY's genre?

Yes.:smalltongue:

This isn't a good excuse, you realize.

Matter of fact, it's the best excuse of all (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZove4OTtI).:smallwink:

Rawhide

2014-08-08, 12:34 AM

That extrapolation is entirely yours, Metahuman--just because you misinterpret my position in a way that broadens it does not make my position broad.

There have been several instances of people not knowing what you meant at all or apparently misunderstanding you. If you continue to reply to these with a flat "that's wrong" or other flat response which does not further the understanding between people, rather than try to explain your position or ask questions, like the others have done, these discussions will continue to go nowhere.

Your post deflected LaZodiac's point with a (humorous?) proposed break in the analogy. I applied the equivalent to Penny to reestablish the analogy. It should have been clear from the rest of my post that I was talking seriously about the verisimilitude of the reaction to Penny's truck-stopping feat.

My basic point is that Penny's feat doesn't seem extraordinary to the viewer except for the reaction it caused in the bystanders, because there hasn't been any rationalization of Aura/Dust power limits for Penny's feat to defy.

My reply to LaZodiac had absolutely nothing to do with that. Your reply was a non sequitur and irrelevant. You need to include more context and clarity if you wish to take the discussion down a different track.

My reply (made in jest) was entirely about how a human could have taken that fall, that a robot could stop a truck was not in question.

Metahuman1

2014-08-08, 12:37 AM

Gespenst Ritter

2014-08-08, 12:52 AM

Ok, I will make this simple.

Watch the scenes were the REALLY, REALLY impressive stuff happens. What will you notice if you stop to look for it? That these scene's are all in a visual medium and thus have visual effects. Except for Penny.

That is what there noticing, and why they are confused about. The visual effects are different, but they are there. Except for her.

There. Simple.

Not so simple, unless you think surviving being blasted upwards several stories through concrete, or being able to take blank-point gunshots to the face and live to tell the tale aren't considered "impressive." Are you limiting the "impressive" stuff to special attacks and such? Because then Penny's wouldn't qualify since all she did was stick her arm out.

If characters regularly glowed or something whenever they were exhibiting Aura--like they did with Jaune when he first unlocked his--then you might have a point about the absence of any special effects, but people have been doing feats like Penny's while looking entirely ordinary.

Sith_Happens

2014-08-08, 01:10 AM

I'm seconding the "a huntress stopping a truck isn't something you see every day" explanation. That, and Penny probably doesn't look the part.

On a related note, I like how Dust Shop Guy is officially the new Cabbage Guy.

LaZodiac

2014-08-08, 01:12 AM

Rawhide

2014-08-08, 01:13 AM

I'm seconding the "a huntress stopping a truck isn't something you see every day" explanation. That, and Penny probably doesn't look the part.

That, or this is a deliberate attempt to try and draw some boundaries on their capabilities. The bystanders and Ruby reacting in a way to show that stopping a large truck like that in the way she did was not normally possible, even for hunters and huntresses.

LaZodiac

2014-08-08, 01:15 AM

That, or this is a deliberate attempt to try and draw some boundaries on their capabilities. The bystanders and Ruby reacting in a way to show that stopping a large truck like that in the way she did was not normally possible, even for hunters and huntresses.

Then why the food fight that is clearly opposing this? They can't really have it both ways.

Math_Mage

2014-08-08, 01:18 AM

There have been several instances of people not knowing what you meant at all or apparently misunderstanding you. If you continue to reply to these with a flat "that's wrong" or other flat response which does not further the understanding between people, rather than try to explain your position or ask questions, like the others have done, these discussions will continue to go nowhere.
Not helped by the fact that I don't even know which post of mine he's misinterpreting, due to the lack of quotes. I've explained my position (again, and again...), so I think a flat response was due. If it wasn't already clear: no, I was not objecting to the very idea of having character reactions to unusual events inform the viewer in some way. I was objecting to having a scene that is in no way unusual given what's been shown, except for the character reaction telling us we should treat it as a special occurrence.

My reply to LaZodiac had absolutely nothing to do with that. Your reply was a non sequitur and irrelevant. You need to include more context and clarity if you wish to take the discussion down a different track.

My reply (made in jest) was entirely about how a human could have taken that fall, that a robot could stop a truck was not in question.
Regardless of how narrowly you choose to interpret that strand of the comment chain, is it clear by now what point I was making and how it relates to the broader discussion you were having with LaZodiac?

Ok, I will make this simple.

Watch the scenes were the REALLY, REALLY impressive stuff happens. What will you notice if you stop to look for it? That these scene's are all in a visual medium and thus have visual effects. Except for Penny.

That is what there noticing, and why they are confused about. The visual effects are different, but they are there. Except for her.

There. Simple.
You seem to be discounting all the other extraordinary things that have happened without more visual effects than were present in the truck scene. Gepenst has listed a couple such.

Lord Raziere

2014-08-08, 01:34 AM

Then why the food fight that is clearly opposing this? They can't really have it both ways.

Well here is the thing:
fighting good =/= superstrong.

being a great martial artist has nothing to do with being super-strong or anything like that, it just means you can better channel the strength you got into well-executed moves, and Hunters seem to be all about Martial Arts, which while requiring strength inherently to fight, isn't about being super-strong itself- just that that they have lots of weapons and abilities that do that sort of thing for them, while Yang being able to withstand a lot of force and going through a roof isn't super-strength its resilience, which Aura does perfectly well.

what Penny has however IS super-strength. she just plained stopped the truck with her hands. without any indication of a forcefield or something like that.

LaZodiac

2014-08-08, 01:37 AM

Well here is the thing:
fighting good =/= superstrong.

being a great martial artist has nothing to do with being super-strong or anything like that, it just means you can better channel the strength you got into well-executed moves, and Hunters seem to be all about Martial Arts, which while requiring strength inherently to fight, isn't about being super-strong itself- just that that they have lots of weapons and abilities that do that sort of thing for them, while Yang being able to withstand a lot of force and going through a roof isn't super-strength its resilience, which Aura does perfectly well.

what Penny has however IS super-strength. she just plained stopped the truck with her hands. without any indication of a forcefield or something like that.

You completely missunderstand what I'm getting at. Yeah, fighting good doesn't mean superstrong. Shattering a huge stone pillar because you knocked someone into it, using FOOD, is super strong.

Nothing you're saying as an example makes what I'm saying invalid. Yang could of easily stopped that truck without any differences in the scene. I doubt Ruby and Weiss could only because they have spindly arms but at the same time, Aura exists so they would be able to do it anyway.

Rawhide

2014-08-08, 01:54 AM

Then why the food fight that is clearly opposing this? They can't really have it both ways.

It's not.

Yang falls (backwards, not on her face) through a ceiling which gives way, helping to break her fall.

Moneypenny is standing vertically on a horizontal road, trying to stop a heavy truck moving horizontally at a decent pace with the palms of her hands, and didn't move more than a foot or two from her starting position while completely destroying the road and not her, and without flinging her into the distance.

Not helped by the fact that I don't even know which post of mine he's misinterpreting, due to the lack of quotes. I've explained my position (again, and again...), so I think a flat response was due. If it wasn't already clear: no, I was not objecting to the very idea of having character reactions to unusual events inform the viewer in some way. I was objecting to having a scene that is in no way unusual given what's been shown, except for the character reaction telling us we should treat it as a special occurrence.

First, a flat response like that is almost never due. It does not help further the discussion or understanding between parties. I'd suggest that you consider a different tack in the future.

It's pretty obvious what he was replying to, and he mentions it in his post. You've stated that the bystander reaction shouldn't be what we have to go on to learn things. I disagree completely and so does he. He's further expanded upon that to question how you feel about bystander reactions in other films and shows.

Regardless of how narrowly you choose to interpret that strand of the comment chain, is it clear by now what point I was making and how it relates to the broader discussion you were having with LaZodiac?

It is not how narrowly (or broadly) someone chooses to interpret something. Including this kind of language is part of the reason you come off as arrogant and aloof. I again suggest that you consider rewording your replies in the future.

It takes two people to misinterpret a conversation. Your flat replies come off as quite aggressive, as if the only possible person can be at fault is the other party and you should not have to do any clarification, explaining or seek any additional information whatsoever.

If you'd like to discuss how those two scenes are different, see my reply to LaZodiac in this post. If you'd like to discuss how their reactions help us see that, see my earlier replies.

LaZodiac

2014-08-08, 02:00 AM

It's not.

Yang falls (backwards, not on her face) through a ceiling which gives way, helping to break her fall.

Moneypenny is standing vertically on a horizontal road, trying to stop a heavy truck moving horizontally at a decent pace with the palms of her hands, and didn't move more than a foot or two from her starting position while completely destroying the road and not her, and without flinging her into the distance.

And the destroyed stone pillar and the wall that Ruby nearly shattered with her powers? Do you think the people involved with stuff like that would be unable to get the same result from stopping a truck? Or how about the fact that Yang WAS sent flying THROUGH said roof by someone wielding a pipe that has a watermelon attached. Could someone that strong be able to stop a truck from moving like how Penny did? Because I think so.

And for that matter why DID the concrete shoot up like that? The truck wasn't really going that fast, and there's no way that what really does seem to just be a simple truck would cause that big of an impact to shatter concrete.

Lord Raziere

2014-08-08, 02:05 AM

You completely missunderstand what I'm getting at. Yeah, fighting good doesn't mean superstrong. Shattering a huge stone pillar because you knocked someone into it, using FOOD, is super strong.

Nothing you're saying as an example makes what I'm saying invalid. Yang could of easily stopped that truck without any differences in the scene. I doubt Ruby and Weiss could only because they have spindly arms but at the same time, Aura exists so they would be able to do it anyway.

No look:
to get the general super-strength thing, you'd have to train your entire body for it.

To do the martial arts thing, your not actually training to become general super-strong in general, your training so you become super-strong when you execute a specific signature move. Sure Yang could do it- but only by punching it so that fire blasts out of her while she does it, because she has trained to apply the strength she has towards punching.

much like a karate chop- the person can only do it because they hardened their bones and practiced that specific technique a thousand times. and even if Yang tried to do what Penny did, it wouldn't result in her stopping it, just her getting hit to and being run over, granted Aura probably allows her to survive, but it doesn't allow her to stop the car

Penny clearly did completely improvised, completely without practicing. that is what is different.

Rawhide

2014-08-08, 02:06 AM

And the destroyed stone pillar and the wall that Ruby nearly shattered with her powers? Do you think the people involved with stuff like that would be unable to get the same result from stopping a truck? Or how about the fact that Yang WAS sent flying THROUGH said roof by someone wielding a pipe that has a watermelon attached. Could someone that strong be able to stop a truck from moving like how Penny did? Because I think so.

And for that matter why DID the concrete shoot up like that? The truck wasn't really going that fast, and there's no way that what really does seem to just be a simple truck would cause that big of an impact to shatter concrete.

Do you think the people involved with stuff like that would be unable to get the same result from stopping a truck? Yes.

1) Those things gave way and broke their impact.

2) The angles and positions involved were different.

3) Remember that Moneypenny did not budge. She slid a couple of feet, but maintained her stance perfectly with next to no leverage.

LaZodiac

2014-08-08, 02:11 AM

No look:
to get the general super-strength thing, you'd have to train your entire body for it.

To do the martial arts thing, your not actually training to become general super-strong in general, your training so you become super-strong when you execute a specific signature move. Sure Yang could do it- but only by punching it so that fire blasts out of her while she does it, because she has trained to apply the strength she has towards punching.

much like a karate chop- the person can only do it because they hardened their bones and practiced that specific technique a thousand times. and even if Yang tried to do what Penny did, it wouldn't result in her stopping it, just her getting hit to and being run over, granted Aura probably allows her to survive, but it doesn't allow her to stop the car

Penny clearly did completely improvised, completely without practicing. that is what is different.

...so? These people are clearly strong. Hell, back in Volume 1 Ruby lifted the Nevermore by it's neck using her scythe. That's heavier then a truck. I don't understand why "oh Penny is untrained while they're trained, clearly they couldn't of stopped the truck" is a thing with you.

Do you think the people involved with stuff like that would be unable to get the same result from stopping a truck? Yes.

1) Those things gave way and broke their impact.

2) The angles and positions involved were different.

3) Remember that Moneypenny did not budge. She slid a couple of feet, but maintained her stance perfectly with next to no leverage.

1: What does that have to do with anything? Yes, they did, I'm saying that is showing how strong they are. That is the point I'm making.

2: Yes.

3: So? I contest that thanks to how Aura works, and from how strong everyone appears to be, they would be able to do what Penny did. Tell me why they can't and I'll understand why you think they can't.

Bolded for emphasis I'm not mad or anything, just confused.

Rawhide

2014-08-08, 02:23 AM

...so? These people are clearly strong. Hell, back in Volume 1 Ruby lifted the Nevermore by it's neck using her scythe. That's heavier then a truck. I don't understand why "oh Penny is untrained while they're trained, clearly they couldn't of stopped the truck" is a thing with you.

1) That was aided by magic aura/semblance/dust/whatever. 2. That was started from a stationary position and accelerated slowly.

1: What does that have to do with anything? Yes, they did, I'm saying that is showing how strong they are. That is the point I'm making.

2: Yes.

3: So? I contest that thanks to how Aura works, and from how strong everyone appears to be, they would be able to do what Penny did. Tell me why they can't and I'll understand why you think they can't.

Bolded for emphasis I'm not mad or anything, just confused.

1. We're talking the difference between having something break your fall, and not moving at all. Riding a bike with shock absorbers down a rough road vs. riding a bike with none.

2. and 3. Look at Moneypenny's stance. Now, consider how impossible for a human that would be, even one martially trained, even one with magic aura/semblance/dust/whatever. Penny somehow managed to stop the truck without breaking her stance or being flung away.

Lord Raziere

2014-08-08, 02:34 AM

...so? These people are clearly strong. Hell, back in Volume 1 Ruby lifted the Nevermore by it's neck using her scythe. That's heavier then a truck. I don't understand why "oh Penny is untrained while they're trained, clearly they couldn't of stopped the truck" is a thing with you.

They could've stopped it, it just wouldn't be so plain looking. they'd have to apply what they've learned using their training and Semblance to do it, which would be clearly recognizable.

Ruby could lift the the Nevermore BECAUSE she had the Scythe. she was channeling it through the act of combat. through a weapon designed to be a force-multiplier. Penny has no such weapon, while Ren clearly had a special kind of move for what he did.

think of a Hunter as a swordmaster. sure they are skilled- but only at the sword. they aren't the Hulk or the Thing. if the swordmaster were to stop the truck, they'd have to use the sword to do it, and probably a flashy technique while they're at it. like Zorro. or Sanji.

Sith_Happens

2014-08-08, 02:36 AM

What do you mean she doesn't look the part?

I can't really place it, but she just comes across as less... Huntressy then anyone else shown so far.

Mrc.

2014-08-08, 02:36 AM

Only just watched it now, wasn't willing to stay up until half midnight to watch it this time.

I think the clothes the girls are wearing are there to try and add a bit of diversity, given that this is the fourth model we've seen for each of them. Sun really shouldn't listen in on other people's conversations, I guess it's just his thing. Weiss having a sister is a nice touch but I hope it doesn't end up with the entire Schnee family turning up to give her crap. Also, the boxes had 'Breakable Things' on the side, just because collateral damage is funny.

What did everyone think of the new music?

Rawhide

2014-08-08, 02:41 AM

Also, the boxes had 'Breakable Things' on the side, just because collateral damage is funny.

YES! I am so glad someone else noticed this. I had been waiting for someone to comment...

Sith_Happens

2014-08-08, 03:02 AM

YES! I am so glad someone else noticed this. I had been waiting for someone to comment...

Speaking of things I'm surprised no one has commented on yet, Yang mentioned "a friend" who "knows everything that goes on in Vale" and from whom getting information "should be easy." Something tells me the man in question would disagree with the first part of that and futilely deny the third part.:smallwink:

Rawhide

2014-08-08, 03:09 AM

Speaking of things I'm surprised no one has commented on yet, Yang mentioned "a friend" who "knows everything that goes on in Vale" and from whom getting information "should be easy." Something tells me the man in question would disagree with the first part of that and futilely deny the third part.:smallwink:

Yep, I'm fairly certain it's him. :smallwink:

User_Undefined

2014-08-08, 03:32 AM

Tell me why they can't and I'll understand why you think they can't.

Bolded for emphasis I'm not mad or anything, just confused.

I found this description on another forum, and it seems to explain what happened and why it's strange better than I could.

Using Aura to stop the truck? If that's all Penny did, it could be explained away by "aura".

But that's not what happened. Penny's action caused her to become an extension of the truck's force, which transferred the full impact force into the pavement through Penny's feet, shattering it, which happened because it was less dense than both the truck and Penny. The truck's momentum then caused Penny to act as a fulcrum point for the force until such time that Penny and the truck formed a straight line into the ground. This means Penny had to be lifting the entire vehicle's weight, plus the change in weight the vehicle's momentum represented (F=MV after all, so the forces involved in holding the vehicle aloft until such time that the inertia in the system was lower than the force of gravity on the vehicle was many times greater than the vehicles weight).

Based on how we see other uses of Aura in the series, what Penny did is many orders of magnitude higher than what Hunters are capable of. Ren does something similar in that he is stopping force, but he is fighting a much lesser force that is more or less just a steady pressure (over a greater area and over a larger amount of time so it's not a matter of strength, but of endurance).

Assuming any level of competent schooling on Aura and it's capabilities, most people would be concerned because they just witnessed the equivalent of someone plucking a bullet out of the air after learning that human reflexes are too slow to let you catch it.

Swaoeaeieu

2014-08-08, 03:34 AM

I know i don't comment a lot in this thread, but lurking is getting old so my 2 cents on this weeks eppisode:

1) I have yet to see the purpose of Wukong and his pal besides abs and gunchucks

2)I like the new outfits. the old outfits were weird, these are also weird. Fits the theme and variation is good. No one should where the same clothes each day.

3)''Look at me! i know facts!'' actually funny.

4)why does ruby have issues with here speed power now? or was the foodfight overly dramaticised (is that a word) to make the foodfight more ridiculous?

5)Oh nooooo!!! Penny is a robot!?! WHO NEW!!!:smallmad: srsly, plot twists should not been seen coming from the first second we see a character.

6) And in responce to LaZodiac: I don't think the car crash made Penny hiccup, i think she did it before too. And i think she hiccups every time she tells a lie because of reasons (and she is pinocio)

Yep, I'm fairly certain it's him. :smallwink:

i am sure Yang will visit 'Him' in 'that place'. We all saw the trailer, she is already wearing the right outfit.

Also, not RWBY related. My english spelling is kind of garbage, if you see any mistakes could anyone please tell me?

Rawhide

2014-08-08, 04:03 AM

i am sure Yang will visit 'Him' in 'that place'. We all saw the trailer, she is already wearing the right outfit.

From Chapter 2, we know that the trailer has already happened. From Chapter 3 we know that she already knows him. She would be going to see him a second time.

Swaoeaeieu

2014-08-08, 04:10 AM

From Chapter 2, we know that the trailer has already happened. From Chapter 3 we know that she already knows him. She would be going to see him a second time.

I meant the trailer for volume 2. It shows Yang with her new outfit in the club, surrounded by mooks and guns.

Mrc.

2014-08-08, 04:15 AM

Regarding the whole truck thing, I once, whilst high, got my mate to hit me with his car at 10mph and it hurt. Quite a lot. I fell over hard and even with a break fall I had bad bruising.

I don't claim to be a master of martial arts. I've done things on and off for many years, and the only two I'm really anything close to competent with are Mantis kung fu and krav maga. Even with this, I can safely state that absorbing the impact of the truck would be fatal for a human, especially as Penny did it. With arms fully extended your elbows lock up and you are unable to use your arms as shock absorbers by compressing them towards your body with the impact.

Someone with the right training and enough time to get a solid stance could potentially reduce the risk of any significant injury but even people who pull planes with their ears would struggle to decelerate the truck quickly enough to avoid injury.

What RWBY has done wrong is by having scenes where the protagonists get to basically be every anime superhero ever, their power scales are messed up. If Yang could survive the madness of the foodfight, having her survive something like a shotgun shell to the face doesn't seem too ridiculous. This doesn't really hold true with what we've seen thus far in the show, and I think it's this that creates the issue of why people aren't surprised by what Penny did.

Aura is something of a spanner in the works. It doesn't seem to always be active, and even when it is it doesn't really play by its own rules. Could aura prevent a broken arm for instance? We don't know, and nothing in show has given us more than a basic 'it's a magic shield because reasons' to go on. If we knew just how powerful and reliable aura was, we could make better judgments as to whether something is too far fetched, but we don't so we really can't.

Rawhide

2014-08-08, 05:02 AM

I meant the trailer for volume 2. It shows Yang with her new outfit in the club, surrounded by mooks and guns.

Ah, right, yes. That trailer.

LaZodiac

2014-08-08, 08:34 AM

2. and 3. Look at Moneypenny's stance. Now, consider how impossible for a human that would be, even one martially trained, even one with magic aura/semblance/dust/whatever. Penny somehow managed to stop the truck without breaking her stance or being flung away.

I disagree. With how Aura has been presented, and with the power we've seen our heroes exhibit, I DON'T see it as impossible. I'm having a hard time understanding why you do, is the main problem. Even Jaune was able to block an attack from the Deathstalker, and if something like that hits less hard then a normal truck, something has gone wrong.

I found this description on another forum, and it seems to explain what happened and why it's strange better than I could.

Using Aura to stop the truck? If that's all Penny did, it could be explained away by "aura".

But that's not what happened. Penny's action caused her to become an extension of the truck's force, which transferred the full impact force into the pavement through Penny's feet, shattering it, which happened because it was less dense than both the truck and Penny. The truck's momentum then caused Penny to act as a fulcrum point for the force until such time that Penny and the truck formed a straight line into the ground. This means Penny had to be lifting the entire vehicle's weight, plus the change in weight the vehicle's momentum represented (F=MV after all, so the forces involved in holding the vehicle aloft until such time that the inertia in the system was lower than the force of gravity on the vehicle was many times greater than the vehicles weight).

Based on how we see other uses of Aura in the series, what Penny did is many orders of magnitude higher than what Hunters are capable of. Ren does something similar in that he is stopping force, but he is fighting a much lesser force that is more or less just a steady pressure (over a greater area and over a larger amount of time so it's not a matter of strength, but of endurance).

Assuming any level of competent schooling on Aura and it's capabilities, most people would be concerned because they just witnessed the equivalent of someone plucking a bullet out of the air after learning that human reflexes are too slow to let you catch it.

None of this means anything. Again, considering what we've seen people DO in this series, I don't believe for a second that stopping a normal truck like that is beyond them. If a truck is so strong it could run over our protagonist without them having a chance to stop it, how are they going to fight a mech walker, or a giant monster? I do not comprehend why apparently everyone is fine with saying "No, Ruby or Yang or whatever couldn't stop an oncoming truck. But they could totally dead lift a 40 foot monster. This makes sense".

Regarding the whole truck thing, I once, whilst high, got my mate to hit me with his car at 10mph and it hurt. Quite a lot. I fell over hard and even with a break fall I had bad bruising.

I don't claim to be a master of martial arts. I've done things on and off for many years, and the only two I'm really anything close to competent with are Mantis kung fu and krav maga. Even with this, I can safely state that absorbing the impact of the truck would be fatal for a human, especially as Penny did it. With arms fully extended your elbows lock up and you are unable to use your arms as shock absorbers by compressing them towards your body with the impact.

Someone with the right training and enough time to get a solid stance could potentially reduce the risk of any significant injury but even people who pull planes with their ears would struggle to decelerate the truck quickly enough to avoid injury.

What RWBY has done wrong is by having scenes where the protagonists get to basically be every anime superhero ever, their power scales are messed up. If Yang could survive the madness of the foodfight, having her survive something like a shotgun shell to the face doesn't seem too ridiculous. This doesn't really hold true with what we've seen thus far in the show, and I think it's this that creates the issue of why people aren't surprised by what Penny did.

Aura is something of a spanner in the works. It doesn't seem to always be active, and even when it is it doesn't really play by its own rules. Could aura prevent a broken arm for instance? We don't know, and nothing in show has given us more than a basic 'it's a magic shield because reasons' to go on. If we knew just how powerful and reliable aura was, we could make better judgments as to whether something is too far fetched, but we don't so we really can't.

This means nothing to RWBY because of Aura. Aura does seem to always be active. Also getting hit by a car while you're high is not even remotely analogous to someone with legit super powers blocking a truck barehanded. I don't care how skilled YOU are at martial arts, you where impaired and ALSO A HUMAN WITH NO SUPER POWERS, YOU are NEVER stopping a truck. But Yang for example, is a person with super powers. She's able to kick a bear 30 feet. She would totally be able to stop a truck bare handed at the VERY least.