[PF] Wyrm Hunter PrC - PEACH Ready

[Silus]

Please note that I'll be adding more to this over the next week or so, but suggestions for extra deeds and class abilities are greatly appreciated.

Edit: Please note that this class is still under construction and I'm actively seeking suggestions on class abilities and deeds.

Wyrm Hunter

DESCRIPTION
A Wyrm Hunter is one of the highest class of hunter in the Gear Wastes, having taken out the largest of clockwork creatures in the Wastes, including the dreaded Blenderwyrms. (More to add later)

ROLE
A Wyrm Hunter's primary goal is putting down huge targets, be they fleshy or made of clockwork or cybernetics. (More to add later)

HIT DIE
D10

REQUIREMENTS
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Feats: Amateur Gunslinger or a Grit feat, Big Game Hunter
Skills: Survival 5 Ranks
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with any of the following: Any Advanced Firearm, Pilum-Lance (Read below for details)
Special: Must have taken down a Gears Waste construct of Huge size or greater

Class Skills

The Wyrm Hunter's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Acrobatics (Dex), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Knowledge (Dungeoneering)(Int), Knowledge (Nature)(Int), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Survival (Wis).

Skill Ranks At Each Level: 4+Int

WYRM HUNTER


Level
BAB
Fort Save
Reflex Save
Will Save
Special


1st
+1
+1
+1
+0
Monster Slayer, Hunter Deed


2nd
+2
+1
+1
+1
Deed, More Gun/Lancer, Dragoon


3rd
+3
+2
+2
+1
Hunter Deed


4th
+4
+2
+2
+1
More Gun/Lancer


5th
+5
+3
+3
+2
Hunter Deed, Lance Reload, Dragoon


6th
+6/+1
+3
+3
+2
More Gun/Lancer, Deed, On The Trail


7th
+7/+2
+4
+4
+2
Hunter Deed


8th
+8/+3
+4
+4
+3
More Gun/Lancer


9th
+9/+4
+5
+5
+3
Hunter Deed


10th
+10/+5
+5
+5
+3
Master Hunter, Deed



Monster Slayer: At level 1, a Wyrm Hunter must choose the Way of the Gun or the Way of the Lance. This will determine the class abilities they will acquire as they level. Way of the Gun is more strictly damage dealing with little utility, whereas Way of the Lance is more defensive and utilitarian. There is some overlap of class abilities. This choice CANNOT be changed once chosen. Blue text denotes Way of the Gun specific abilities, Red for Way of the Lance.

Hunter Deed: At levels 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9, a Wyrm Hunter learns new tricks for using their weapons to drop or capture large beasts, be they flesh and blood or metal and clockwork.

One Shot One Kill: Spend 2 grit, make a single attack. If it hits, it's an automatic critical threat and must be confirmed. Performing this deed does not allow you to regain grit from confirming a critical hit. Works with the Pilum-Lance.
Monster Targeting: As the Targeting deed, but with the following locations instead. Works with the Pilum-Lance (as does Targeting)

Hide: This version of this deed target's a creature's scales, thick hide, shell, or other source of natural armor. The creature suffers a -4 penalty to its natural armor bonus to its Armor Class (minimum +0) for 1 minute. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack.
Natural Weapon: This version of this deed targets a specific limb that can be used as a natural weapon. On a hit, the target takes no damage from the hit but cannot attack with the targeted natural weapon for 1 round and drops one carried item of the gunslinger’s choice, even if the item is wielded with two limbs. Items held in a locked gauntlet are not dropped on a hit.
Wings: As normal.

Titan Hunter's Resolve: As long as you have at least 1 grit, you are immune to fear and you gain a +4 dodge bonus to your Armor Class against creatures at least 1 size category larger than yourself.
Just Out of Reach: So long as you have 1 grit, you gain a bonus to acrobatics equal to 1/2 your level for the purposes of moving through squares threatened by a creature of size greater than you.
Eat Lead: As an immediate action, you may expend 1 grit to gain a counter Attack of Opportunity when you are the subject of a larger creature's attack of opportunity. The "counter" is resolved by initiative order and counts towards your AoOs for the round. You are able to take this action only once per attack, up to your AoO limit, and you may make the AoOs with ranged or melee weapons.
Hunter's Mark: You may expend 1 grit as a free action to place your mark on a creature. Doing so causes your allies to have their weapons be treated as "Bane" against that creature for 1 minute.
(More Hunter Deeds to come as ideas come to me/suggestions are made)

Deeds: At levels 2, 6 and 10, a Wyrm Hunter gets access to Gunslinger Deeds with their Wyrm Hunter level "counting as" Gunslinger levels for purposes of qualifying. These levels can stack with Gunslinger levels, effectively allowing a Gunslinger/Wyrm Hunter to obtain full Deed coverage.

Enough Gun: At levels 2, 4, 6, and 8, the Wyrm Hunter begins calibrating their firearm to their personal specifications. At each level, the Wyrm Hunter may choose from the following upgrades to their chosen firearm. Unless expressly stated, the upgrades can only be taken once. The initial addition of each upgrade is free, and transfer to other firearms costs 200g x the number of upgrades on top of the weapon cost. They may also craft the upgrades themselves at half the cost at DC15 with +5 per upgrade. Anyone trying to use a Wyrm Hunter's upgraded firearm (others treats it as "Broken"). Due to the complex nature of construction, Golem-Stopper Rifles are not able to be upgraded.


Machine Tooled Barrel: The Wyrm Hunter retools their weapon's barrel, making it more accurate. The firearm gets +1 to hit.
Giant Bore: The Wyrm Hunter has totally overhauled the barrel and loading mechanism of their firearm to allow larger caliber of ammunition to be loaded. The damage die increases by 2 (1d6 => 1d10 for example). Must take Machine Tooled Barrel and Variable Breach first.
Ammunition Accelerator: Either through magic or clever engineering, the Wyrm Hunter has increased the stopping power of their firearm. The firearm gets +1 damage. Can be taken only twice.
Deadly Accurate Sights: Even the slightest adjustments can make the difference in scoring a critical hit. With each adjustment, a Wyrm Hunter increases their firearm's Critical range by +1 (18-20 would become 17-20 for example).
Magitech Targeting Array: Through the clever application of magic, the Wyrm Hunter has turned their weapon into a deadly marksman's weapon. They may use True Seeing as a Swift Action 3/day that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. In addition, the base range of the Wyrm Hunter's firearm doubles. Requires Deadly Accurate Sights and Elemental Capacitor.
Reaper Sights: Having constructed the most accurate mechanical sights possible for themselves, the Wyrm Hunter finds it far easier to score Critical Hits. The critical hit range for the upgraded firearm is doubled. This does not stack with Improved Critical. Requires Magitech Targeting Array, Deadly Accurate Sights and Elemental Capacitor.
Expanded Capacity: With reworking the internal chambers or magazines of your firearm, you're able to load additional shots. The firearm gets +1 Capacity regardless of type. Can be taken multiple times.
Drum Magazine: Through a reworking of their firearm's magazine, the Wyrm Hunter is able to not only store more shots, but also increase their number of attacks. The firearm's capacity increases by 4 and the Wyrm Hunter receives one additional attack at their lowest BAB. Requires Expanded Capacity x2.
Internal Ammo Forge: You don't know HOW you did it, but you managed to augment your weapon to change the metal composition of your firearm rounds in the chamber. As a move action, you may set your ammunition to a material from the following list: Silver, Adamantine, Blood Crystal, Elysian Bronze, Cold Iron and Viridium. Bullets augmented in such a way are obliterated on impact and cannot be recovered in any way. In addition, the special material overrides any special material the shots are composed of. You may take this upgrade once and you must choose the material upon applying the upgrade. The material choice may be changed for a cost equal to the weapon's Masterwork cost + the cost of the Special Material used when applied to a weapon. The Special Material is not needed to apply or use the upgrade. Alchemical rounds are not affected by the Internal Ammo Forge.
Double Coated Ammunition: The Wyrm Hunter has not only fixed the Internal Ammunition Forge in their gun, but have actually improved upon it. The Wyrm Hunter may, by supplying a negligent amount of the material (scraps and shavings are enough.), choose a second Special Material from the Internal Ammo Forge list (This choice may be changed at the beginning of the day). When they apply the coating to their shot, it counts as both the selected special materials (So you may have a shot count as Silver and Elysian Bronze). Requires Internal Ammo Forge and Precisely Tooled Mechanism.
Elemental Capacitor: Thanks to integrated magitech, you are able to suppress creature's elemental resistances. Each successful hit with a firearm suppresses the hit creature's elemental resistances by 5 for 1d4 rounds (Fort negates, DC (10 + Wisdom Bonus + Wyrm Hunter level). May be taken multiple times. Each time this upgrade is taken, you may opt to 1) add +5 to the resistance suppressed, or 2) add +2 to the Fort save DC to resist suppression.
Elemental Discharge: The application of elemental chargers along the barrel allows the Wyrm Hunter to add on elemental damage to their shots. Outside of combat, the Wyrm Hunter chooses an elemental type (Fire, Electric, Cold or Acid) and adjusts the sprockets and arcanogyros (This takes about five minutes of work). Their firearm gains +2d4 damage of that element type. Requires Elemental Capacitor and Precisely Tooled Mechanism.
Precisely Tooled Mechanism: While firearms are temperamental, you've managed to slowly work out all the little kinks in your particular gun. The misfire chance drops by 1 every time this upgrade is taken down to a misfire chance of 0 (Cannot misfire).
Variable Breach: You've managed to upgrade your firearm in such a way that it can handle pretty much any type of ammunition for a hand-held firearm. You may load your firearm with firearm ammunition of any type (So blunderbusses may load rifle rounds, rifles may load blunderbuss rounds, etc.). This does come at the cost of increased problems for the firearm however, causing the misfire chance to raise by 2 when using ammunition not for the specific type of weapon. Of note, scattershot (or any rounds that go off a cone such as pellets) loaded into handguns or rifles has a maximum cone of 15ft up to the first range increment at 1/2 the damage. This upgrade may only be taken once.


Lancer: Similar to the Way of the Gun's "More Gun" ability, a follower of the Way of the Lance has begun upgrading their Pilum-Lance, and any other Pilum-Lances. The initial addition of each upgrade is free, and transfer to other firearms costs 200g x the number of upgrades on top of the weapon cost. They may also craft the upgrades themselves at half the cost at DC15 with +5 per upgrade.


Prototype Firing Mechanism: The Wyrm Hunter upgrades their Pilum-Lance to be able to fire Pilums at range. The Pilum Lance may fire a Pilum from the end of their Lance with a range of 20ft. With no other upgrades, a Prototype Firing Mechanism may load only one Pilum at a time and reloads as a Standard action (See Lance Reload for more). Essentially they may use the Pilum-Lance's Special ability at a range of 20ft.
Barbed Pilums: Why fight hard when you can fight smart? The Wyrm Hunter has added shards of metal, glass, bone and stone to their Pilums, allowing them to cause horrible bleeding wounds. While the Pilum is inside a creature, the creature takes the Wyrm Hunter's Strength mod in bleed damage a round (Minimum of 1). Taking this upgrade a second time increases the damage to Str+1/2.
Chained Harpoons: The Wyrm Hunter has realized that large monsters running about is generally a bad thing. The Wyrm Hunter's Pilums have been greatly upgraded to allow for more battlefield control. The Pilum-Lance's critical range increases to 19-20/x3 and gains the Grappling quality with a range of 20ft (A Wyrm Hunter that succeeds in a grapple with the Pilum-Lance may move up to 20ft from the grappled opponent). The Pilum-Harpoons are connected by a chain that shares the same break DC. A Wyrm Hunter may disengage a chained Pilum-Harpoon from their Pilum-Lance as a move action. Reattaching a Pilum-Harpoon is a full-round action and retracting (and reloading) a still attached, non-grappled harpoon is a move-action.
Double-Barrel: Why shoot once when you can shoot twice? The Wyrm Hunter adds a second barrel to the end of their Pilum-Lance, allowing for for a second Pilum to be loaded. When used with the Prototype Firing Mechanism, the Wyrm Hunter may fire two Pilums before needing to reload (Still a Standard action to reload the to Pilums). When combined with Chained Harpoons, the second Pilum-Harpoon has their Critical Chance increased to 15-20 for purposes of grappling (15-20 enabled a grapple, but 19-20 still "counts as" a crit).
Clockwork Winch: The Wyrm Hunter has integrated a clockwork winch into the construction of their Pilum-Lance. When using a Pilum-Lance with Pilum-Harpoons, you gain the Improved Reposition feat, even if you do not meet the requirements for it. In addition, you gain a +4 mechanical bonus to Reposition when using Pilum-Harpoons to grapple and the "One size larger" restriction to Reposition is waived, though the DC to drag is increased by +1 for each size category above your own. Must take Chained Harpoons first to take this upgrade.
Automatic Loader: You've taken a page out of the Gunslinger's playbook and added a magazine for your Pilums. Your Pilum-Lance now has a capacity of of 5 (or 6 with Double-Barrel) and automatically loads in new Pilums as a Free Action. Pilum-Harpoons, when fired, add a cumulative +2 to the Grapple attempt and increases the DC to break the grapple by +2 per Pilum-Harpoon. If combined with Clockwork Winch, each Pilum-Harpoon fired and used to grapple increases the Wyrm Hunter's CMB for Repositioning by +2 when using the Pilum-Harpoons on an already grappled/harpooned opponent.
Armor Piercing Pilums: A little more bang for your buck. The Wyrm Hunter has managed to increase the durability of their Pilum's piercing heads, allowing the Pilums to bypass armor and even weaken it. When a Pilum is in a creature (as per the Pilum-Lance's ability), the Pilum lowers the creature's AC by 2. This stacks up to five times. In addition, Pilum-Harpoons have their Critical range increased to 13-20 for purposes of initiating their grapple weapon ability.
Shielding Plate: A good defense is, well, a better defense. The Wyrm Hunter welds, rivets, sews or otherwise attaches armor plating around the grip of their lance, earning them a +2 mechanical bonus to AC. This upgrade may be taken multiple times, adding +2 each time taken.


Dragoon: At level 2, the Wyrm Hunter becomes extremely proficient with a Pilum-Lance. They are able to wield a Pilum-Lance one-handed with no penalty when not mounted and Pilum-Lance tips are now no longer destroyed when used (as Pilums usually are). At level 5, the Wyrm Hunter counts as mounted when charging with a Pilum-Lance and the Wyrm Hunter may apply the following Deeds to the Pilum-Lance (assuming they meet the level requirements): Targeting, Bleeding Wound, Evasive, One Shot One Kill, Monster Targeting, and Eat Lead.

Lance Reload: At level 5, the Wyrm Hunter has tinkered their Pilum-Lance enough to allow them to reload the Pilum-Tips, and to do so quickly. The Wyrm Hunter's Pilum-Lance no longer breaks on a successful attack, though the tip does. Replacing the Pilum-Tips is a move-action, or a free action with Rapid Reload.

On The Trail: At level 6, the Wyrm Hunter gains the quarry class feature. This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name. If they already has the quarry class feature from another class, they instead gains the improved quarry class feature. A Wyrm Hunter can use these abilities on any creature, not just a favored enemy.

Master Hunter: At level 10, the Wyrm Hunter becomes feared by even the greatest of monsters and know how to deal with just about anything. They gain the Frightful Presence Universal Monster Ability (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Cha modifier) and, when using a Knowledge skill to find information on a creature, they receive 1 extra question (Minimum of 1). Lastly, when the target of a Combat Maneuver by a creature larger than you, the creature does not get its size bonus.

[Silus]

Some suggestions are appreciated, as I am slowly beginning to run out of ideas for this class.

[Dyhmas]

Hi there. I like the idea behind your class but as I'm not too familiar with PF I'll have to give it a slower read before I can PEACH it, however, one thing really caught my attention:

What is the main ability of this class?
If it's the Hunter Deed ability, then don't you think it should be given at first level? Seems wierd to acquire a level in a PrC and not get anything.
I think you should decide on a main focus for your class and give it at first level, with scaling bonuses and/or extra features as you progress on the class.
Also, this class has a lot of dead levels...really. Maybe giving more Hunter Deeds and also increasing the list of available ones might fix that, tho.

Anyway, will PEACH in a lil.
Carry on!

-Dyhmas

[Silus]

Hi there. I like the idea behind your class but as I'm not too familiar with PF I'll have to give it a slower read before I can PEACH it, however, one thing really caught my attention:

What is the main ability of this class?
If it's the Hunter Deed ability, then don't you think it should be given at first level? Seems wierd to acquire a level in a PrC and not get anything.
I think you should decide on a main focus for your class and give it at first level, with scaling bonuses and/or extra features as you progress on the class.
Also, this class has a lot of dead levels...really. Maybe giving more Hunter Deeds and also increasing the list of available ones might fix that, tho.

Anyway, will PEACH in a lil.
Carry on!

-Dyhmas

Well I'm still in the process of building the class, so the levels have yet to be, er, "finished". I intend there to be something every level for the class, though for the life of me I can't think of what.

An idea I was kicking around was have the Hunter Deeds on the odd levels, come up with a couple more deeds, allow access to the Gunslinger Deeds at 2, 6 and 10 (With the Wyrm Hunter levels counting as Gunslinger levels for the purpose of qualifying for Gunslinger deeds) and peppering in either some passive buff vs large monsters or a customized Artificer kind of ability where the Hunter just starts upgrading their weapon to the point that it's indistinguishable from a stock version.

I do want to add in some melee abilities as well to work with the Pilum-Lance but I can't really think of anything.

Also, and I've seen it about, but what does PEACH stand for?

[Dyhmas]

@PEACH

I've seen a couple of interpretations already but, as far as I know, it stands for Please Evaluante And Critque Honestly.

[Silus]

Ok, save for the Description and role, I thiiiiiiink this class is ready for a PEACH look over.

Please do keep in mind that the Wyrm Hunters primarily operate in the sections of the setting known for large robots, constructs and massive mutated creatures (Think Monster Hunter sized things).

[Silus]

Okay, gave the class a little tweak or two based off some feedback from the Paizo forums, and now I feel it's ready for it's first round of PEACH whatnot.

[silphael]

Something stroke me : the usual save DC for PrC is 10 + PrC level + ability modifier, not 10+ 1/2 PrC level. (for Elemental Capacitor)

As I'm reading Lancer, you can use Spirited Charge while not mounted with it, intended?

[Silus]

Something stroke me : the usual save DC for PrC is 10 + PrC level + ability modifier, not 10+ 1/2 PrC level. (for Elemental Capacitor)

As I'm reading Lancer, you can use Spirited Charge while not mounted with it, intended?

Ok, fixed the DC.

And...I would rule that so long as you are using a Pilum-Lance, then yes, you could use Spirited Charge in combination with the Lancer ability.

[Silus]

Anymore feedback, or can I go ahead and ship this off for playtesting?

[silphael]

I kinda think "You don't scare me" could be modified into a straight immunity to fear effects. Big creature are nearly never trying to intimidate, and the real terrifying ones aren't intimmidating at all, they have fearfull presence...

[Dyhmas]

PEACH incomiiiing!


Monster Slayer: At level 1, a Wyrm Hunter gains proficiency with either a Golem Stopper or a Pilum-Lance, whichever they are not proficient with when entering the class. If they are proficient with both, the Wyrm Hunter gains a +1 to hit and +2 damage with the weapons.
Are these weapons from your own setting? If so, it'd be nice to post it for reference. Makes it easier to understand where you're going with this class.


One Shot One Kill: Spend 2 grit, make a single ranged attack. If it hits, it's an automatic critical threat and must be confirmed. Performing this deed does not allow you to regain grit from confirming a critical hit.
One of the reasons I want to see these weapons...what are their critical multiplier? How much damage do they make? I can see this ability being either great or broken, depending on the player and weapon used...i like it a lot tho. Also, this is a standard action, right?


Monster Targeting: As the Targeting deed, but with the following locations instead.
These are good....very good. I personally would prefer, in the Natural Weapons one, to cause a penalty to attacks with said weapon for a large period, over disabling it for one turn...just personal preference, tho.


Titan Hunter's Resolve: As long as you have at least 1 grit, you are immune to fear and you gain a +4 dodge bonus to your Armor Class against creatures at least 1 size category larger than yourself.
Very good, as previously said, giving fear immunity is much better, due to the frigthfull presence that many big creatures have.


Just Out of Reach: So long as you have 1 grit, you gain a bonus to acrobatics equal to 1/2 your level for the purposes of moving through squares threatened by a creature of size greater than you.
Oh boy, this is sooo good when coupled with One Shot, One Kill (as long as it is a standard action)...allows you to be very mobile in combat. You almost don't need d10 HD with this, as you can constantly stay out of harms way.


Eat Lead: As an immediate action, you may expend 1 grit to gain a counter Attack of Opportunity when you are the subject of a larger creature's attack of opportunity. The "counter" is resolved by initiative order and counts towards your AoOs for the round. You are able to take this action only once per attack, up to your AoO limit, and you may make the AoOs with ranged or melee weapons.
I believe this ability has more potential as being a defense against manuevers...big breatures have big bonuses in bullrush, grappling and whatnot. Allowing the Hunter to shoot the mouth of the monster as he is trying to eat him whole seems both effective and flavorfull...


Hunter's Mark: You may expend 1 grit as a free action to place your mark on a creature. Doing so causes your allies to have their weapons be treated as "Bane" against that creature for 1 minute.[/list]
How about changing this deed or creating new ones based on marking a foe for different effects...like, "mark a foe and have detect effect cast on it for a duration of 1 minute"...something to help with the "hunt" part of the class, perhaps?


Deeds: At levels 2, 6 and 10, a Wyrm Hunter gets access to Gunslinger Deeds with their Wyrm Hunter level "counting as" Gunslinger levels for purposes of qualifying. These levels can stack with Gunslinger levels, effectively allowing a Gunslinger/Wyrm Hunter to obtain full Deed coverage.
Altho the Gunslinger deeds are very generalistic and usefull, I think you should focus on making more wyrm hunter deeds and giving the option to choose between those OR gunslinger ones. Basically, mergin this ability with Hunter Deeds.


Enough Gun: At levels 2, 4, 6, and 8, the Wyrm Hunter begins calibrating their firearm to their personal specifications. At each level, the Wyrm Hunter may choose from the following upgrades to their chosen firearm. The initial addition of each upgrade is free, and transfer to other firearms costs 200g x the number of upgrades on top of the weapon cost. Anyone trying to use a Wyrm Hunter's upgraded firearm (other treats it as "Broken")
Again, I'd like to see the stats of the this class' trademark weapons...however, as is, these seem to fit the PF guns pretty well, no qualms with it.


Lancer: At level 3, the Wyrm Hunter becomes extremely proficient with a Pilum-Lance. They are able to wield a Pilum-Lance one-handed with no penalty when not mounted and count as mounted when charging with a Pilum-Lance.
Ok, now you HAVE to give me the Pilum stats as this seems to allow me to make a Gunlancer in PF (an old dream of mine...fan of MH, right here)


You Don't Scare Me: At level 4, the Wyrm Hunter has dealt with enough monstrous creatures that intimidation tactics don't work all that well any more. The Wyrm Hunter doubles their Wisdom bonus to the DC of Intimidate checks against them. In addition, creatures do not get the +4 size bonus to intimidate against the Wyrm Hunter.
Considering you already have a deed that covers fear...this is pretty much useless, as the deed is too good to not take, really.


Lance Reload: At level 5, the Wyrm Hunter has tinkered their Pilum-Lance enough to allow them to reload the Pilum-Tips, and to do so quickly. The Wyrm Hunter's Pilum-Lance no longer breaks on a successful attack, though the tip does. Replacing the Pilum-Tips is a move-action, or a free action with Rapid Reload.
...every MH player that plays as a Gunlancer's dream...


On The Trail: At level 6, the Wyrm Hunter gains the quarry class feature. This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name. If they already has the quarry class feature from another class, they instead gains the improved quarry class feature. A Wyrm Hunter can use these abilities on any creature, not just a favored enemy.
Hmm, ok, scratch what I said earlier about a new marking deed...this covers it very well. I still stand by the fact that new Marking deeds would be nice, perhaps check 4e for ideas? Marking is pretty well done in that system.


Dragoon: At level 7, has mastered the use of the Pilum-Lance. Pilum-Lance tips are now no longer destroyed when used (as Pilums usually are) and the Wyrm Hunter may apply the following Deeds to the Pilum-Lance: Targeting, Bleeding Wound, Evasive, One Shot One Kill, Monster Targeting, and Eat Lead.
Just noticed that you give lots of abilities with the Pilum, but not with the golem stopper...any specific reason for that? If not, why not make these Pilum abilities like a Combat Style-esque ability, allowing the player to choose on wich weapon to focus when he takes this class and then giving those bonuses depending on the weapon chosen?


Enough Gun: After much upgrading, trial and error and experimentation, the Wyrm Hunter has finally achieved the height of their weapon upgrade potential. A level 10, they may choose one of the following upgrades. The upgrade replacement/reapplication cost is 5,000g and increases the penalty for anyone other than the Wyrm Hunter using the firearm by -4.
Again, it'd be nice to have these new weapon stats (I may be making a fool of myself, in case these are common knowledge...however, I don't know that much of PF anyway).
While these upgrades seem great and all, I don't like the fact that the capstone of this class is bound to an item (that can be broken, stolen, misplaced, etc...) rather than the character. I think you already have good upgrades with the previous ability, to the point where you could merge this list to the other one (with the due changes for balance, of course) and add something other. Something that makes it pretty clear that, at this point, the Wyrm Hunter is never the prey, no matter the size of his foe...perhaps give him a Frigthfull Presence of his own, that affects all creatures regardless of size? That'd mean he is recognized as a threat by his prey, right?

Anyway, sorry I took so long with PEACHing, Real LifeTM keeps getting in the way...
I must say that this is pretty much a MH Gunlancer to me...wich is pretty good, since I've never seen a good conversion of that concept to DnD/PF/D20. If that wasn't really the idea, perhaps checking the Monster Hunter games could give some good ideas.

Good stuff, good stuff! Carry on!

-Dyhmas

[Silus]

Thanks for the review, I'll see if I can go about and change some stuff up a little later today =D

Here's the stats for the Golem-Stopper (This thing needs some tweaking in light of the Wyrm Hunter class I think)


Golem-Stopper Rifles: Price: 7000g, DMG (S): 2d6, (M): 3d6, Critical: 19-20/x3, Range 80ft, Misfire: 1-2, Capacity 5, weight: 30 lb, type: P&B, special

A (mostly) Centaur only weapon, a Golem-Stopper is a magically assisted firearm that is designed to stop not only constructs (notoriously difficult to stop normally) but also vehicles and other animated, normally inanimate objects. Based off of pre-apocalypse anti-material rifle schematics dug up from dwarven archives, Golem Stoppers have been key in securing a foothold in the Gear Wastes. While indeed anyone with firearms training can use it, only a trained Centaur is able to utilize the weapon without undue harm to themselves. This is due to the recoil of the rifle which would knock even a braced biped off their feet.

Special: Full-Round reload, Free Action between shots (Affected by Rapid Reload and Musket Master's reload ability). Removes range restriction on Sneak Attack regarding Constructs with scope, only first range increment if no scope. Non-Quadrupeds (ie: Bipeds) must make a DC20 Strength check or be knocked prone after shooting. Quadrupeds take no penalties (Due to stability). Firing while Prone for bipeds incurs no penalties.


Pilum-Lance: Price: 15g, DMG (S): 1d6, (M): 1d8, Critical: x3, weight: 14 lb, type: P, Double dmg on charge, special

The Pilum-Lance is a standard Lance which breaks upon a successful attack. If the wielder succeeds at a CMB check the Pilum-lance also impales the target, giving it a -4 penalty on Dexterity and allowing you to drag it around by the rope attached to the Pilum Lance unless it removes the attachment. Removing the Pilum Lance requires a standard action as well as a free hand (or similar appendage) to grip it. It is used by Centaur teams in conjunction with well-anchored winches to bear down and kill the larger clockwork monstrosities of the Gear Wastes. Some Pilum-Lances have been modified to allow replacement Pilums to be attached as a move-action (Rapid Reload affects the speed, though only the modified lances).

Yes, Centaur are a thing in the campaign setting (They're medium creatures oddly enough) and a Centaur Wyrm Hunter is up there with Halfling Rogue and Elf Wizard.

Issues of note: If with the current build a player goes all-crit feats and crit-upgrades with a Golem stopper, they're potentially looking at sub-10 crit ranges with a x3 crit chance. Granted that's by at least lvl 16 with a steampunk equivalent of an anti-material rifle, but still.

Edit: Also, I maaaaaay have been a little bit inspired by the Heavy Bowgun users in MH >.>

Regarding some of the suggestions/questions:

1) I wanted there to be some usage of the Pilum-Lance, and the Wyrm Hunter seemed to be a good choice. I'll see about setting up a Combat Style thing for it though. Also possibly the potion to launch Pilums from the end of the lance for more Gunlance goodness.

2) I can't actually think of another ability to replace "You Don't Scare Me". Suggestions are more than welcome. Maybe something to increase CMD vs larger monsters?

3) Regarding "Enough Gun", I could see about dumbing down some of the capstone upgrades and applying them to the lower level upgrades. I do like the concept of Frightful Presence however.

[Dyhmas]

Hmmm, looking at the Pilum and Golem Stopper I come to realize a few things about the class:

-I wouldn't use the Pilum. It's just too much hassle for too little. In fact, it only gets "good" by the later levels of the class and, by that level, the Dex penalty won't matter much and you definetely won't be able to drag anyone around as you'd be at least lvl 13 by then...

-With the class as it is, I can understand why you gave only abilities that affect the Pilum...because the Golem Stopper is too good! Really, I see no point in ever using the Pilum over the Golem Stopper...even as support or utility or whatever. Either you come up with a way to make using the Pilum worthy of the actions expended or come up with a way to use both weapons together...maybe both.

-As you mentioned earlier, the Golem Stopper, coupled with the ability to move+crit every round, is too good. Way too good. (Falling prone is not an issue if you can, pretty much, just get up the next turn and fire another crit) To the point where applying a huge price for it won't matter at all. Again, we're talking about lvl 10+ here, 7k is nothing. You should perhaps downgrade it outright or make it so that some of its power is locked untill you acquire a certain level in your PrC...like the Pilum. In fact, only by lvl 7 of Wyrm Hunter that the Pilum actually starts looking like a real usefull weapon...maybe make it that way for both?

Not really sure how to address those issues...I think one of the main problems I see is the fact that those two weapons don't really interact well. I can see someone picking one (the golem stopper, 99%of the time) or the other (again, the pilum doesn't seem that good), but hardly both.

I apologize if this came out harsh, t'was not intended...maybe too much coffee.:smallwink:

Anyway, carry on!

-Dyhmas

[Silus]

Hmmm, looking at the Pilum and Golem Stopper I come to realize a few things about the class:

-I wouldn't use the Pilum. It's just too much hassle for too little. In fact, it only gets "good" by the later levels of the class and, by that level, the Dex penalty won't matter much and you definetely won't be able to drag anyone around as you'd be at least lvl 13 by then...

-With the class as it is, I can understand why you gave only abilities that affect the Pilum...because the Golem Stopper is too good! Really, I see no point in ever using the Pilum over the Golem Stopper...even as support or utility or whatever. Either you come up with a way to make using the Pilum worthy of the actions expended or come up with a way to use both weapons together...maybe both.

-As you mentioned earlier, the Golem Stopper, coupled with the ability to move+crit every round, is too good. Way too good. (Falling prone is not an issue if you can, pretty much, just get up the next turn and fire another crit) To the point where applying a huge price for it won't matter at all. Again, we're talking about lvl 10+ here, 7k is nothing. You should perhaps downgrade it outright or make it so that some of its power is locked untill you acquire a certain level in your PrC...like the Pilum. In fact, only by lvl 7 of Wyrm Hunter that the Pilum actually starts looking like a real usefull weapon...maybe make it that way for both?

Not really sure how to address those issues...I think one of the main problems I see is the fact that those two weapons don't really interact well. I can see someone picking one (the golem stopper, 99%of the time) or the other (again, the pilum doesn't seem that good), but hardly both.

I apologize if this came out harsh, t'was not intended...maybe too much coffee.:smallwink:

Anyway, carry on!

-Dyhmas

*Laughs* Hey man, don't stress about being harsh, I need harsh. I'm plenty creative but I seriously lack in the mechanically balanced department.

Some ideas to help balance thing out:

1) Rework the requirements for the class to proficiency with any Advanced Firearm (Rifle, Shotgun, Revolver) and make it a point to note that, due to the complex inner workings of a Golem Stopper and how they all have to be custom made by a master gunsmith, they are not eligible for any of the upgrades, but you still may use the deeds. Basically the Golem Stopper would be considered already upgraded and the class ability "More Gun" would be there to turn a Rifle or Shotgun into their own custom Golem Stopper (By level 10 it'd probably have the same stopping power but with greater customization). List of official firearms here. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/firearms)

2) Split the class into either Firearm or Pilum-Lance and emphasize that the Firearm branch is strictly damage, whereas the Pilum-Lance branch is more defensive and crowd control. Take the current Pilum-Lance class features, lower their level and add in an equal number of upgrades, allowing the PC to easily turn the Pilum-Lance from "Oh I charged and it broke" to something approaching a crowd/monster-controlling Gunlance.

[Silus]

Ok, retooled some of the existing class abilities, broke the class into two trees and added a Pilum-Lance upgrade tree.

I fear that I wove the Pilum-Lance upgrades too much into each other >.>

[Silus]

Ok, I consolidated the "Enough Gun" upgrades into the "More Gun" table and gave them pre-requisite upgrades, then took "You Don't Scare Me" and turned it into "Master Hunter" and made it the capstone.

[silphael]

Isn't grit based on wisdom? In that case, make capstone benefit from wisdom instead of charisma, which is probably a dump stat for a wyrm hunter.