Qualifying for two PrC

[Effero]

I'm trying to help a friend out with a character he wants to use but I've hit a brick wall trying to qualify for both the PrC he was to use (he wants all the levels in said classes if possible). With so few levels to work with, 4 levels, I can't seem to figure out how to do it. So I'm asking the board, again. Is it possible to take both Thrall of Malcanthet 10 and Fiend of Corruption 6, and if so what is the best way to qualify? If not, what is the best way to take as many levels as possible?

Fiend of Corruption requirements: Race must be Outsider with evil subtype; Base save bonus of +7 Will; Bluff 10, Disguise 10, Sense Motive 10; Must be able to use charm person or charm monster

Thrall of Malcanthet requirements: CE alignment; female; Bluff 9, Diplomacy 9; Perform (any two) 5; have Persuasive, Spell Focus (enchantment), and Thrall to Demon (Malcanthet) Feats

EDIT: Any published WotC material is accepted by the DM.

[Vhaidara]

Tiefling should your best race option, but they don't get the evil subtype. I would ask the GM about that.

You aren't getting this pre-epic. No way to get the prereqs without LA, and no way to enter either PrC without at least 6 class levels.

I also can't find where the Thrall is from, but my guess is that your best path is Bard 6/Thrall 6/Fiend 10

[Effero]

Tiefling should your best race option, but they don't get the evil subtype. I would ask the GM about that.

You aren't getting this pre-epic. No way to get the prereqs without LA, and no way to enter either PrC without at least 6 class levels.

I also can't find where the Thrall is from, but my guess is that your best path is Bard 6/Thrall 6/Fiend 10

Thrall is from Dragon Mag #353.

EDIT: My thought was to use the Diaboli race to get the Outsider type and I believe there is a ritual somewhere to gain a subtype of your alignment. Beyond that, Bard was my thought to.

[Vhaidara]

Does it progress casting? If so, then this is possible. If it doesn't, then the build gets pushed back another level, since you need Bard 7 to get Charm Monster.

And without Tiefling being allowed, it forces you into a Demon. Options here
Dretch: ECL4, sucks on every level
Hezrou: ECL 19, way too much ECL
Succubus: ECL 14, best option for flavor, but still ECL 14
Vrock: ECL 18, same problem as the Hezrou

[sideswipe]

4 levels with bloodline cheese only gets you to 8 ranks in skills at level 4. you need 9 ranks at level 4 to take the first level of the thrall.

the feats are simple. and the skills are easy once you have hit into one class and taken it.

to get an outsider with +0 la with the evil subtype - neraphim and the Ritual of Alignment from savage species. you are now an evil outsider.

so now we just need someone to increase bluff and diplomacy by 1 max skill rank at level 4 on top of bloodline cheese and a neraphim who paid 56k and 1000 experience.

isnt there a feat that increases diplomacy by 1 rank? i'm not sure about bluff.

if that is true then you can take X 4/Thrall of Malcanthet 10/ Fiend of Corruption 6.

but you need that extra 1 rank boost in two skills without gaining a level.

one level in a spell casting class like wizard or beguiler is enough for charm person. and if a skill was once a class skill you can have ranks in them up to maximum, only spending is level/class dependent.

[Rubik]

Favored + Primary Contact from Cityscape would give you +1 skill rank above your normal total in one skill. And I believe there's a similar feat in one of the campaign books. I'm leaning towards either Ravenloft, Ghostwalk, or Dragonlance, but I don't know which or where.

How about a few UA bloodlines? If you count the bloodlines as auto-buyoff'd LA (spend XP without gaining a level), that can gain you extra skill ranks without actually gaining levels.

You could also use Inspire Greatness for +2 Hit Dice. Then take your levels. So long as the PrC isn't in CWar (or was it CChamp?), then you don't unqualify if you suddenly don't...qualify. Just make sure you get another I.G. during your next level-up.

[Vhaidara]

Warning: Bloodline cheese, IIRC, is so cheesy that it is looked down on by almost everyone. I'm actually quite surprised it's actually been brought up.

[Rubik]

Warning: Bloodline cheese, IIRC, is so cheesy that it is looked down on by almost everyone. I'm actually quite surprised it's actually been brought up.Also see: Inspire Greatness.

[sideswipe]

Warning: Bloodline cheese, IIRC, is so cheesy that it is looked down on by almost everyone. I'm actually quite surprised it's actually been brought up.

I know. I feel dirty for suggesting it. but i can see no other way around it without PUN-PUN level of cheese.

ask your DM for two primary contacts (as an evil outsider if you are not some sort of quadruple agent your probably not doing it right).

then you can have 9 ranks in diplo and bluff for level 4. and you can concentrate on obtaining enough of the other prerequisites after that.

[Rubik]

Ah! Found it!

The Laborious Training feat in Legacy of Blood (Ravenloft) boosts your max ranks in all intelligence based skills by 2. I know that won't work for, say, Cha-based skills and whatnot, but if you can change the ability score Bluff and such are keyed off of...

[Effero]

Does it progress casting? If so, then this is possible. If it doesn't, then the build gets pushed back another level, since you need Bard 7 to get Charm Monster.

And without Tiefling being allowed, it forces you into a Demon. Options here
Dretch: ECL4, sucks on every level
Hezrou: ECL 19, way too much ECL
Succubus: ECL 14, best option for flavor, but still ECL 14
Vrock: ECL 18, same problem as the Hezrou

Thrall does progress casting at 7/10 skipping 1, 5, and 9

[Effero]

Ah! Found it!

The Laborious Training feat in Legacy of Blood (Ravenloft) boosts your max ranks in all intelligence based skills by 2. I know that won't work for, say, Cha-based skills and whatnot, but if you can change the ability score Bluff and such are keyed off of...

That is brilliant, but I think Cha based skills are the only ones that Factotum doesn't change.

[sideswipe]

ok, what i have so far....

need 14 int

beguiler 3/ rogue 1/ thrall 10/ fiend 6

at level 1 put 2 cross class skill points into two performs costing 4 points for 1 rank in each and then keep diplomacy and bluff maxed. disguise and sense motive should also be maxed if possible.

at level 4 take rogue 1 for 10 skill points with the +2 int. you put 1 more each in diplo and bluff, and you put the other 8 into the two performs. you reach the prerequisites for the first class and most of the ones for the second.

feats -
1 - persuasive
flaw - spell focus enchantment
flaw - thrall to the guy
3 - primary contact (see below)


ok this is where it gets a bit messy. you either need to abuse some really bad inspire greatness cheese and get the higher skill ranks that way (leaving you with your level 3 feat free to use) or you need to both exploit bloodlines cheese AND ask nicely to your DM to give you two primary contacts and be some sort of double agent or such and this could come with a DM controlled drawback. then you could get the extra skill ranks needed.

or you could just ask your DM to waive or lower the skill prerequisites to enter the class.

unfortunatly, without really heavy rules exploitation which is frowned upon even at the most high op tables you cannot get what your friend wants with RAW.

just ask your DM nicely, you are still spending a lot of your resources to get it.

alternativly if he is willing to drop 2 levels of one or one of each prestige class then you can just take beguiler 5/ rogue 1/ then the classes you want.

[Vhaidara]

unfortunatly, without really heavy rules exploitation which is frowned upon even at the most high op tables you cannot get what your friend wants with RAW.

just ask your DM nicely, you are still spending a lot of your resources to get it.

Note: By level 20. It is always assumed on these boards that builds must complete by level 20.

[sideswipe]

Note: By level 20. It is always assumed on these boards that builds must complete by level 20.

yes, though i implied that earlier with a 20 level build. but yes just to state it. without exploitation you cannot get this before level 20. skill ranks are the hardest thing to work around in the game.

[Rubik]

You could always go psion all the way up, and at the first opportunity, buy two power stones each of Fusion and Astral Seed. Hunt down a thrall of Malcanthet, Dominate it or Diplomance it or knock it unconscious or otherwise "convince" it to be the willing subject of Fusion. Then, while Fusion'd, manifest Astral Seed. Do what you have to in order to activate Astral Seed. A week or so later when you return, you'll be a permanent gestalt of yourself and the thrall of Malcanthet, gaining all of those levels and abilities in addition to your own. Repeat with the fiend of corruption.

It's not exactly what you intended, but it should work all the same.

[Effero]

Thanks for the help. I will link my him this thread, so if anyone else has more to add feel free.