Warlock vs Tarrasque

[m149307]

My question is: Can I hit the tarrasque with my eldritic blast, and will it be bounced off the carapace, or hit it. Also... can a level 20 solo a tarrasque? I am a ranged build that fights 250" in the air.

[Somensjev]

My question is: Can I hit the tarrasque with my eldritic blast, and will it be bounced off the carapace, or hit it. Also... can a level 20 solo a tarrasque? I am a ranged build that fights 250" in the air.

the tarrasque has absolutely 0 way to hit airborne targets. ergo, as long as you stay in the air, you will eventually kill it

[Flickerdart]

My question is: Can I hit the tarrasque with my eldritic blast, and will it be bounced off the carapace, or hit it. Also... can a level 20 solo a tarrasque? I am a ranged build that fights 250" in the air.
You will need a scroll of wish and a lot of time, but Eldritch Blast is not a ray so it won't reflect. All you have to do is outpace its regeneration and bear its SR consistently. Its touch AC is laughable and you will hit 95% of the time. Assuming no CL boosts, you will pass SR 40% of the time. Thus, with a 10d6 eldritch blast, you will damage it an average of 13.3 damage per round, which its regeneration handles easily. You will need to more than triple your damage output to solo the tarrasque.

[eggynack]

Also... can a level 20 solo a tarrasque?
If we're talking about any standard PO build, rather than what you're doing, then a level 7 wizard can trivially solo a tarrasque. Just cast summon undead IV for an allip. The tarrasque can't even hit the allip, or the wizard if he's flying at a reasonable height, and the allip very much can hit the tarrasque with its ability drain.

Edit: As Flickerdart notes, however, this method will only incapacitate the tarrasque, rather than killing it. Probably sufficient for most purposes though.

[m149307]

You will need a scroll of wish and a lot of time, but Eldritch Blast is not a ray so it won't reflect. All you have to do is outpace its regeneration and bear its SR consistently. Its touch AC is laughable and you will hit 95% of the time. Assuming no CL boosts, you will pass SR 40% of the time. Thus, with a 10d6 eldritch blast, you will damage it an average of 13.3 damage per round, which its regeneration handles easily. You will need to more than triple your damage output to solo the tarrasque.

I don't worry about SR because of Vitriolic Blast. I have psionic shot/greater psionic shot, so that adds 4d6. I also would have all the items that boost the damage (like the Chausuble of Fell Power which adds 2d6.) so that is 16d6 so far (counting your 10d6).

[Xuldarinar]

Can a Wizard solo the Tarrasque? Yes, and the more creative the wizard is the easier they can accomplish this.

Can a Warlock solo the Tarrasque? Yes, but not as easily.


Keep in mind, there is a difference between asking if one alone can defeat the Tarrasque, which is the question I assume is being asked, and if one alone can kill the Tarrasque.

[m149307]

If we're talking about any standard PO build, rather than what you're doing, then a level 7 wizard can trivially solo a tarrasque. Just cast summon undead IV for an allip. The tarrasque can't even hit the allip, or the wizard if he's flying at a reasonable height, and the allip very much can hit the tarrasque with its ability drain.

Edit: As Flickerdart notes, however, this method will only incapacitate the tarrasque, rather than killing it. Probably sufficient for most purposes though.

It is immune to ability drain

[georgie_leech]

It is immune to ability drain

On the contrary, it's immune to Ability Damage. Drain affects it just fine.

[m149307]

What about negative levels, would that work too?

[eggynack]

It is immune to ability drain
It is immune to ability damage. Reread the stat block. Ability drain is fine. Seriously, this is an old trick. It holds up unambiguously.

Edit: And I done been swordsage'd. As for negative levels, the tarrasque does have immunity to energy drain. I don't know that that holds up against all sources though.

[georgie_leech]

What about negative levels, would that work too?

If you find a way to do so without using Energy Drain, which it is immune to, sure.

EDIT: Swordsage'd by the swordsage-ee. How fitting.

[m149307]

Does this count as energy drain... or does it work? Utterdarkblast (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/invocation:utterdark-blast)

[AuraTwilight]

If normal Eldritch Blast can work, then it should.

[Renen]

If you are a level 20 wizard and you are BLASTING it to death, you are doing it very veeeeery wrong.

[m149307]

If you are a level 20 wizard and you are BLASTING it to death, you are doing it very veeeeery wrong.

Opps... I meant warlock.

[Inevitability]

At 20th level, about everyone can incapacitate the Tarraque. Heck, a 1st level commoner can even do it.

1st level gray elf commoner who is named Madness with one flaw. Make sure you have at least 15 intelligence/charisma.

Take the following feats:

-Magical Training
-Precocious Apprentice (Command Undead)
-Night Haunt

Then, find someone and torture that person. Give him/her the option to commit suicide. If said person doesn't commit suicide, torture him/her some more and repeat the offer. Continue until the person has commited suicide.

The person is now driven to suicide by you (madness) who affected it in life. Guess how Allips are created? (yes it is silly, and yes I don't care it is)

Now you just Command the Allip to go and attack the Tarrasque (if it makes its saving throw, run like hell) and once the big T is down, you just create an unseen servant and tell him to fill up the Tarrasque's lungs with dirt. Tarrasque now takes nonlethal damage from suffocating, which causes it to be unconscious all the time.

[Malroth]

Decieve Item to create a scroll of Summon Undead 4. Summon Alip . Requires Warlock 12 and Scribe Scroll

[m149307]

At 20th level, about everyone can incapacitate the Tarraque. Heck, a 1st level commoner can even do it.

1st level gray elf commoner who is named Madness with one flaw. Make sure you have at least 15 intelligence/charisma.

Take the following feats:

-Magical Training
-Precocious Apprentice (Command Undead)
-Night Haunt

Then, find someone and torture that person. Give him/her the option to commit suicide. If said person doesn't commit suicide, torture him/her some more and repeat the offer. Continue until the person has commited suicide.

The person is now driven to suicide by you (madness) who affected it in life. Guess how Allips are created? (yes it is silly, and yes I don't care it is)

Now you just Command the Allip to go and attack the Tarrasque (if it makes its saving throw, run like hell) and once the big T is down, you just create an unseen servant and tell him to fill up the Tarrasque's lungs with dirt. Tarrasque now takes nonlethal damage from suffocating, which causes it to be unconscious all the time.
Sounds like a **** move to do to a dm. I like it :smallsmile:

[inertia709]

You will need a scroll of wish and a lot of time, but Eldritch Blast is not a ray so it won't reflect. All you have to do is outpace its regeneration and bear its SR consistently. Its touch AC is laughable and you will hit 95% of the time. Assuming no CL boosts, you will pass SR 40% of the time. Thus, with a 10d6 eldritch blast, you will damage it an average of 13.3 damage per round, which its regeneration handles easily. You will need to more than triple your damage output to solo the tarrasque.

Nope, it is a ray.


An eldritch blast is a ray with a range of 60 feet.

Vitriolic blast says nothing about changing this either.


Greater; 6th; Eldritch Essence

This eldritch essence invocation allows you to change your eldritch blast into a vitriolic blast. A vitriolic blast deals acid damage, and it is formed from conjured acid, making it different from other eldritch essences because it ignores spell resistance. Creatures struck by a vitriolic blast automatically take an extra 2d6 points of acid damage on following rounds. This acid damage persists for 1 round per five class levels you have. For example, a 15th-level war- lock deals 2d6 points of acid damage per round for 3 rounds after the initial
vitriolic blast attack.

So OP will need a way to get around the ray reflection, lest he blast himself into oblivion before the tarrasque even feels the damage.

[m149307]

I use Eldritic Spear (Blast Shape) so I can avoid melee and just attack from above... so it is a ray, and thus affect by the carapace... any way to get around that? And the Vitriolic blast was to bypass SR.

[Taveena]

Eldritch Glaive isn't a ray. UMD a scroll of Giant Size (blah blah decieve item) to get to colossal, hover out of reach, poke it to unconsciousness with Vitriolic Eldritch Glaive, UMD a scroll of Wish to keep it dead.

[Wacky89]

this would help on the SR thing:
http://dndtools.eu/feats/savage-species--47/supernatural-transformation--2849/

[thethird]

I would say that supernatural transformation doesn't work (unless you are from a race that has warlock eldritch blast as a racial spell like) due to it needing to be an innate spell-like.


Innate: existing in, belonging to, or determined by factors present in an individual from birth.

Maybe if you did a reincarnation shuffle it could work...

[Wacky89]

one of the first lines from the warlock description: "By harnessing his innate magical
gift"

[Darkweave31]

Decieve Item to create a scroll of Summon Undead 4. Summon Alip . Requires Warlock 12 and Scribe Scroll

I second this. The XP from defeating a Tarrasque at level 12 will offset any XP you spend on the scroll(s) you made.

[Chronos]

The gift is innate, but the harnessing of it isn't. You don't get an eldritch blast until you actually take your first level of warlock.

[sideswipe]

funnily enough since the tarrasque's regeneration and immortality are the same power, which is its regeneration, a trollbane weapon used to coup-de-gras the tarrasque once you knock it out will kill it. it turns off its regeneration and its ability to convert damage to non lethal and its immortality in one.

if you still argue that it's non lethal damage you dealt before turning off its regeneration stays non lethal then you just have to coup-de-gras it a few times whilst it remains unconscious (for a few hours) and it dies. if it ever dies with its regeneration ability turned off then it does not turn on again after its dead so it stays dead.

much cheaper and easier to get then a wish.

[SinsI]

Can a Wizard solo the Tarrasque? Yes, and the more creative the wizard is the easier they can accomplish this.

Can a Warlock solo the Tarrasque? Yes, but not as easily.

You're wrong - Warlock can solo Tarrasque at lvl 12, while Wizard has to wait for lvl 17.

[eggynack]

You're wrong - Warlock can solo Tarrasque at lvl 12, while Wizard has to wait for lvl 17.
Really depends on how you define soloing. The way I figure it, if you've gotten the big lug completely immobilized, such that you can do with it as you please, that's close enough. Besides, you can always just buy a frigging scroll. Not all that difficult of a task, and you can afford it before 12th.

[Psyren]

You're wrong - Warlock can solo Tarrasque at lvl 12, while Wizard has to wait for lvl 17.

The wizard can beat it way earlier than that. They just have to knock it out with nonlethal (which renders it willing) and teleport it into a large body of water like the ocean.

[Ellowryn]

Unfortunately, EB is a ray, says so right in the ability description. My question is, if you use Eldritch Glaive does it stop being a ray as it is now a melee touch attack?

[Chronos]

Trollbane won't work on Big T, as it's a poison, and he's immune to poison.

[Snowbluff]

The wizard can beat it way earlier than that. They just have to knock it out with nonlethal (which renders it willing) and teleport it into a large body of water like the ocean.

Beat it? Where's that wish, bro? Warlocks can make a scroll of that. It'll just come back, otherwise.

On the other hand, any class can get a scroll, but if that's the case who gives a crap about a wizard doing anything?

[Psyren]

Beat it? Where's that wish, bro? Warlocks can make a scroll of that. It'll just come back, otherwise.

Can't come back if it's perpetually drowning. Problem solved, collect XP.

[Jack_Simth]

Beat it? Where's that wish, bro? Warlocks can make a scroll of that. It'll just come back, otherwise.Nope, it won't, due to a clause in the generic Regeneration Definition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration) that nothing Big T has overrides: "Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation."

So technically, Drowning Big T gets rid of him, as his regeneration doesn't recover him from that. You can do the same by Plane Shifting him to a plane without air.

Additionally, if you simply apply enough nonlethal that he can't wake up enough to obtain food or water before the nonlethal damage from the lack of food or water exceeds his normal hit points, then he'll never wake up without aid (athough that's an absurd amount of damage; quite a few charges from a decent ubercharger, or one hit from a d2 crusader).

[Chronos]

He'll also never come back without help from being Alliped, since ability drain doesn't heal on its own. That said, a Tarrasque that can be brought back to full function with a single casting of a fourth-level spell is one heck of a Sealed Neutral in a Can. It's advisable, once you have him incapacitated through any means, to apply multiple other incapacitating effects at your leisure, for redundancy.

[Snowbluff]

Can't come back if it's perpetually drowning. Problem solved, collect XP.

1) We don't know if it'll float.

2) It'll have to drown before it recovers. While normally I'd be confident in this working, the Big T has a lot of health. An airless plane would work.

We need a permanent solution to the T problem! We need a wish! [/speech]

[Psyren]

1) We don't know if it'll float.

By RAW it can't float without making swim checks, which it can't do while unconscious (since it is helpless.) Thus it will sink.

One point I will give you is that it will take a long time for it to fail the Con checks while submerged and start drowning, before which it may recover. The simple solution here is to immerse it in something that will keep damaging it. Lava is an easy candidate, so teleport it into a volcano.

You can also teleport it to an airless environment as Jack_Simth said. I hear the moon is lovely.

[Snowbluff]

One point I will give you is that it will take a long time for it to fail the Con checks while submerged and start drowning, before which it may recover. The simple solution here is to immerse it in something that will keep damaging it. Lava is an easy candidate, so teleport it into a volcano.

You can also teleport it to an airless environment as Jack_Simth said. I hear the moon is lovely.

Much better.

TO THE MOON! (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/027/b/3/banish_it_to_the_moon__a_book_by_princess_celestia _by_fishy009er-d4ntgu4.png)

[Mr Adventurer]

He's immune to fire isn't he?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm

[Psyren]

He's immune to fire isn't he?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm

Shhh :smalltongue:

Acid then.

[TypoNinja]

If you find a way to do so without using Energy Drain, which it is immune to, sure.

EDIT: Swordsage'd by the swordsage-ee. How fitting.

Wait, how does one determine if negative levels are energy drain or not? I thought all negative level attacks were energy drain?

[Vhaidara]

Not energy drain, Energy Drain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/energyDrain.htm), which doesn't work because it is a ray.

[eggynack]

Not energy drain, Energy Drain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/energyDrain.htm), which doesn't work because it is a ray.
No, I think they meant the ability. Spells are usually italicized, though I don't really have any evidence direct from a statblock. Heal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heal.htm) is a good example that isn't in a statblock though.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

The Eldritch Line invocation, while ordinarily a bit crap, changes your EB into a 60' line that allows a Reflex save for half. It's explicitly not a ray so the Big T's ray shielding won't protect it from your blasts, or from proton torpedoes.

[TypoNinja]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels

Energy drain is an attack type, I assume Big T is immune to the attack type rather than the specific spell.

[pwykersotz]

one of the first lines from the warlock description: "By harnessing his innate magical gift"

This has actually been addressed by WotC.

http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/975156

Q: Can the feat Supernatural Transformation from Savage Species change the Warlocks Eldritch Blast and Invocations from Spell Like Abilities to Supernatural Abilities?

A: I chatted with the developers, and we're of the opinion that the term "innate" in the description of the Supernatural Transformation feat means "spell-like abilities you got because of your race, not because of any class choices you might have made." So that would rule out the warlock's invocations and eldritch blast.

That said, we're not 100% sure that the feat would necessarily be broken for the warlock. The warlock is a pretty feat-thirsty class, so there is a real cost in picking this up to make your eldritch blast SR-proof, when you've got an eldritch essence available that can do the same thing. But just to be on the cautious side, we're saying no. Rule Zero us on this one if you like.

(As an aside...we've discovered that the word "innate" is one of those flavor words that often carries a mechanical connotation, and it's not always meant to. So be careful in trying to extend this particular ruling to other "innate" things, because "innate" seems to mean different things in different contexts.)

[Darkweave31]

Much better.

TO THE MOON! (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/027/b/3/banish_it_to_the_moon__a_book_by_princess_celestia _by_fishy009er-d4ntgu4.png)

Send it to the moon (http://mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/img/mlfw688_33754%20-%20animated%20celestia%20dexterous_hooves%20keyboa rd_pony%20parody%20Regular_Show%20the_power.gif)

[georgie_leech]

This has actually been addressed by WotC.

http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/975156

Q: Can the feat Supernatural Transformation from Savage Species change the Warlocks Eldritch Blast and Invocations from Spell Like Abilities to Supernatural Abilities?

A: I chatted with the developers, and we're of the opinion that the term "innate" in the description of the Supernatural Transformation feat means "spell-like abilities you got because of your race, not because of any class choices you might have made." So that would rule out the warlock's invocations and eldritch blast.

That said, we're not 100% sure that the feat would necessarily be broken for the warlock. The warlock is a pretty feat-thirsty class, so there is a real cost in picking this up to make your eldritch blast SR-proof, when you've got an eldritch essence available that can do the same thing. But just to be on the cautious side, we're saying no. Rule Zero us on this one if you like.

(As an aside...we've discovered that the word "innate" is one of those flavor words that often carries a mechanical connotation, and it's not always meant to. So be careful in trying to extend this particular ruling to other "innate" things, because "innate" seems to mean different things in different contexts.)

You've got to love when the developers can admit they didn't keep things consistent. To paraphrase: "We're not totally sure if innate is being used mechanically or as fluff, so we're going to say no. It probably wouldn't be broken though, so whatever; make a judgement call." :smallbiggrin:

[Zaydos]

How are you teleporting the tarrasque before 17th level (actually at 12th since that's the comparison)? I mean you need a caster level of 48 to teleport a single colossal creature with Teleport or Greater Teleport. I guess you could use double Plane Shift or Greater Plane Shift but that requires above 12th level or you to be a cleric instead of a wizard.

[malonkey1]

The wizard can beat it way earlier than that. They just have to knock it out with nonlethal (which renders it willing) and teleport it into a large body of water like the ocean.

Or into space, or under the crust of the earth, or onto the surface of Atropus, or...

[Xuldarinar]

Or into space, or under the crust of the earth, or onto the surface of Atropus, or...

It resides in the core supposedly, if I recall correctly. Space or on Atropus (If you can find him without drawing his attention) works however.

[Zancloufer]

Vitrolic Elderich Doom. AoE 20ft, 60ft range, 10d6 damage, ref save for half 2d6 acid DoT for 4 rounds, and all damage is considered conjured and acid. You auto-hit with no chance of reflection and ignores SR. Adamantly the Tarrasque has a decent chance of saving (DC being 18+CHA mod) but with a decent CHA mod (let's say 6) and assuming the Acid DoTs stack (nothing says they don't) after 4 rounds with a 75% save chance (DC 24 vs 29 Ref) and average damage your doing ~44 damage a round average vs 40 regen. It will take a while, but Big T can't hit a flying target (which our Warlock 20 will be).

Now to UMD a scroll of something to finish it off. . .

[TypoNinja]

Big T can't hit a flying target

While this is technically true, Big T can however jump impressively high, and has a very large vertical reach thanks to his size.

[Zancloufer]

While this is technically true, Big T can however jump impressively high, and has a very large vertical reach thanks to his size.

Impressively high? 17 Str mod +0 ranks = +17 jump, to a max of 37, which divided by 4 = ~9 feet, + his 20ft reach. So as long as your more than 30ft away he can't reach you.

Now had he used his 40HD worth of skill points, or had 1-2 pieces of gear maybe, but SRD Tarrasque? No real jumping skills.

[eggynack]

Impressively high? 17 Str mod +0 ranks = +17 jump, to a max of 37, which divided by 4 = ~9 feet, + his 20ft reach. So as long as your more than 30ft away he can't reach you.

Now had he used his 40HD worth of skill points, or had 1-2 pieces of gear maybe, but SRD Tarrasque? No real jumping skills.
You're forgetting about the sprint ability, which increases his speed to 150 feet, and thus gives his jump check a fancy +48.

[TypoNinja]

Impressively high? 17 Str mod +0 ranks = +17 jump, to a max of 37, which divided by 4 = ~9 feet, + his 20ft reach. So as long as your more than 30ft away he can't reach you.

Now had he used his 40HD worth of skill points, or had 1-2 pieces of gear maybe, but SRD Tarrasque? No real jumping skills.



http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm

You forgot his speed bonus, and his dashing skill.

By my math, we get a +17 from str, and 12x4 more for his 150ft dash speed for +48 more, thats a 16 foot high jump, for a 35 foot attack range, not including the creatures own height, before dice rolling. If you are careless he could still get you in the air.

Not saying you should be anywhere near that close to the thing, but somebody who thinks "airborn = safe" might just get a rude surprise.

[Snowbluff]

Which is still crap. Add on the Warlocks potential invisibility options, and you've got a slow, but one-sided fight.

[Vhaidara]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm

You forgot his speed bonus, and his dashing skill.

By my math, we get a +17 from str, and 12x4 more for his 150ft dash speed for +48 more, thats a 16 foot high jump, for a 35 foot attack range, not including the creatures own height, before dice rolling. If you are careless he could still get you in the air.

Not saying you should be anywhere near that close to the thing, but somebody who thinks "airborn = safe" might just get a rude surprise.

Okay, so 15ft jump (extra foot doesn't matter), and 20 foot reach (Big T does not have 35ft reach. That would be half of its own length). Height doesn't matter because you only need to be able to hit the top of it. Dice, at best (nat 20) get you 5 more feet, for a total of 40 (55, using your 35ft reach).

EB has a range of 60ft. Same with Line.

[Chronos]

Tarrasque's same ability that reflects rays also reflects lines and cones. And Magic Missiles, for what it's worth.