Wilder -> Anarchic Initiate? Psionic Prestige/Multi-classing

[supersonic29]

I'm currently playing a 3rd level wilder in a campaign and realized I should decide before I move on if I want to consider multiclassing or anything. What directions are good for wilders? Is Anarchic Initiate good? Do you think I could do some silly stuff with that plus Fortune's Friend? Also, if I multiclass Psion when I can cast second level psion/wilder spells from my wilder levels, can I use the discipline I choose and my new powers known to take a second level discipline power? If so is that a smart direction?

As usual, thanks in advance :smallbiggrin:

[Chronos]

Anarchic Initiate is a good class for wilders to take, except for the detail that it requires a bunch of ranks in Knowledge (the Planes), a cross-class skill. This was almost certainly not intended, so talk with your DM about circumventing that somehow.

And with any sort of caster, it's really not a good idea to multiclass between different casting classes, unless you're going into a PrC that will advance both (and even then, it's subpar). You'll gain much more power and versatility by sticking with one class. If you really want one or two discipline-only powers, take the Expanded Knowledge feat.

[supersonic29]

I noticed the Knowledge (Planes) thing. That was another reason I thought about psion (Knowledge (Any)) in addition to dipping in for Energy Missile. The reason I wanted to abstain from relying on Expanded Knowledge was so I could reserve that for Astral Construct (since the feat is cumulative in restricting you.) I guess what that boils down to is, good idea or not, if I multiclassed into Psion and took Kineticist and then got access to 2nd level powers from wilder, would I be allowed to take Energy Missile?

[Werephilosopher]

No, you'd have to gain 2nd-level powers from psion levels to get energy missile.

[supersonic29]

The power points would be mutual though, correct?

[Chronos]

The reason I wanted to abstain from relying on Expanded Knowledge was so I could reserve that for Astral Construct (since the feat is cumulative in restricting you.)
What do you mean by this? You can take Expanded Knowledge as many times as you want, for different powers.

[supersonic29]

What do you mean by this? You can take Expanded Knowledge as many times as you want, for different powers.

I went to go cite what I thoughtwas in the book, that being that each time you take the feat it stacks how low the power level is (i.e. one level lower, then two, then three) Not sure how I misinterpreted that as badly as I did, thanks for knocking some sense into me.

[Psyren]

There are no cumulative restrictions on Expanded Knowledge.

You've already been shown the big disadvantage of Wilders going into AI, namely that it requires a Knowledge skill they don't actually get. Most other psionic PrCs aren't worth it because they both lose ML and Wild Surge.

Personally I am a fan of Soul Manifester (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a) for Wilders - it doesn't progress Wild Surge either, but you get a lot of synergy to make up for it. Psionic Investment stacks with Wild Surge, soulmelds give you more things to do when your powers aren't there yet, and best of all you can use the Mage's Spectacles soulmeld with your high Cha score to reliably UMD in combat or stressful situations, granting you access to tools other manifesters don't typically get to use like wands and scrolls.

[Chronos]

You've already been shown the big disadvantage of Wilders going into AI, namely that it requires a Knowledge skill they don't actually get.
Which is something best addressed by houserule, since the class is obviously designed for wilders (and I think explicitly says so).

[Rubik]

You've already been shown the big disadvantage of Wilders going into AI, namely that it requires a Knowledge skill they don't actually get. Most other psionic PrCs aren't worth it because they both lose ML and Wild Surge.Actually, you'll want to get out of wilder fairly early, due to the enervation mechanic. The chances of enervation and penalties thereof get progressively worse the longer you stay in wilder, so you need to weigh just how big of penalties you can stand vs the benefits of actually taking more levels.

Of course, wilder/legacy champion gives you the best of both worlds (and minimizes penalties), albeit at a slightly reduced rate.

[Rebel7284]

Knowledge Devotion is a good feat that gives you access to knowledge skills. :)

[LurKing]

Actually, you'll want to get out of wilder fairly early, due to the enervation mechanic. The chances of enervation and penalties thereof get progressively worse the longer you stay in wilder, so you need to weigh just how big of penalties you can stand vs the benefits of actually taking more levels.

I think you may have (very slightly) misunderstood the enervation probability. Enervation is based on the number of manifester levels added (5% per) rather than the character's "wild surge +." Wilders, when Wild Surging, are not required to Surge for their maximum value. SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/wilder.htm#wildSurge)


At 3rd level, a wilder can choose to boost her manifester level by two instead of one.

The chance of suffering psychic enervation is equal to 5% per manifester level added with the wild surge.

Therefore, simply having greater 'ranks' of Wild Surge does not directly increase the risk of enervation-- using them to their fullest does. One can always choose to receive a lesser benefit.

All that being said, personally I would much rather Wild Surge for 1 and trigger Chaotic Surge than Wild Surge for 4. That enervation penalty definitely hurts, so if you plan to make hefty use of high-value Wild Surges you'll want to acquire daze immunity somehow.

[supersonic29]

Oh wow, the thread came back!

I appreciate the insight both into possibly better paths as well as how to pull of anarchic initiate if I desire :smallsmile:

Someone emphasized the potential good of chaotic surge, others emphasized dodging the wilder-type penalties that show up later (increased penalties from enervation I assume), would it be sensible to dip into anarchic initiate for that ability and then proceed in another (prestige) class?