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Orsyn
2014-08-04, 01:57 AM
So, I recently came across this archetype, and I immediately fell in love (as I do with most things Magus, to be fair >.>). My question is fairly simple: what can you actually -do- with it?

Everything I've seen regarding it is talking about Staff Master/Card Caster, which while I approve of the concept (who hasn't wanted to play the ragin' Cajun at some point?), doesn't seem to work particularly well as far as synergy goes. Is there a reasonable way to make this viable as a build?

What about other archetypes?
Bladed Scarf Dancer seems to suffer from the same synergy problems as Staff Master, but has anyone come up with a build for it?
What about Hexcrafter? I can't see any synergy OR lack thereof, but how would one optimize this otherwise thematically awesome combo?
Could it stack with Kensai? The Kensai proficiency choice, as far as I can tell, isn't tied to their "chosen weapon," based on the text of Canny Defense, so could one be a Kensai specializing in darts? Would you have to be a Kensai specializing in cards?

Alternatively, what about other classes or weapons?
Could a Card Caster pick up shurikens via Monk or Ninja and be effective?
Would a Card Caster be able to run around with a spear?
What about taking throw anything and just spellstriking with whatever you find laying around to throw?

Serafina
2014-08-04, 03:00 AM
Card Caster is really just the "Thrown Weapon Magus" - actually using Harrow Cards is a trap, given that Darts are hardly good weapons.

That being said, it is a pretty good archetype since it gives your Spellstrike range.
Basically, at the cost of one Arcana, you no longer have to stand in the frontlines and can use Spellstrike with any spell (not just melee touch spells, but also ranged touch and even none-touch spells).

The Drawbacks:
You pretty much have to take Quick Draw, have to split your weapon enchantments/arcane pool amongst multiple weapons if you want to full attack.
Returning is a mandatory weapon enchantment.
Spell Combat gets iffy. It only works with melee weapon attacks:

As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).
Now there are plenty of melee weapons that have a range increment and are thus also thrown weapons. By strict RAW, it should work with them - although RAI is doubtful, since darts (and thus cards) are ranged weapons and thus not eligible for this. Your GM might disagree with that reading though, so you might lose spell combat!



An optimized Card Caster uses 18-20 melee weapon with the Throwing enchantment (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/throwing), grabs several copies of that weapon and uses Quick Draw to make full attacks with it.
Since that relies on expensive magic items, you instead start out using Daggers.
You can also carry several long-ranged thrown weapons such as Amnentum's, in case the enemy is out of range.
If you have the feats to spare and are forced into melee range regulary, Close-Quarters Thrower (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/close-quarters-thrower-combat) solves that issue.


Staff Magus is an attractive archetype if you can not use spell combat. In that case your best options are daggers or crystal chakrams, so losing martial weapon proficiency doesn't hurt (you either take exotic weapon proficiency or not anyway). You carry your staff in your off hand for its defensive properties, and don't lose the ability to use spell combat due to having both hands occupied since you already lost it anyway.
The same logic (wielding two weapons and losing proficiencies) applies to other archetypes such as Bladed Scarf Dancer.




Bottom Line:
If you don't lose spell combat due to some mild cheese, its a great archetype due to keeping you out of melee.
Without that cheese it becomes somewhat stinky since you lose the main feature of the magus, but can still be made into a neat character.

Oneris
2014-08-04, 03:28 AM
Hexcrafter Magus's hexes usually have a range limit of only 30 feet, and as a Card Caster, you'll probably be fighting a distances further than that.

Moblinman
2014-12-21, 06:06 AM
Spell Combat gets iffy. It only works with melee weapon attacks:

Now there are plenty of melee weapons that have a range increment and are thus also thrown weapons. By strict RAW, it should work with them - although RAI is doubtful, since darts (and thus cards) are ranged weapons and thus not eligible for this. Your GM might disagree with that reading though, so you might lose spell combat!


If you're combining this archetype with Staff Master then RAW, you can still use Spell Combat. Spell Combat itself is just letting you cast a standard-action spell in addition to your iterative attacks. The text of Spell Combat makes no mention of the spell having to be delivered via melee attack. The actual problem would be that you would be throwing into melee, which is an easier problem to deal with.