Questions about Warlock class

[dehro]

I am playing a warlock that has kept the least invocation Hideous blow for those rare instances when I am forced into melee.

Least; 1st; Blast Shape
As a standard action, you can make a single melee attack. If you hit, the target is affected as if struck by your eldritch blast (including any eldritch essence applied to the blast). This damage is in addition to any weapon damage that you deal with your attack, although you need not deal damage with this attack to trigger the eldritch blast effect.
I'll disregard the second attack per round because of the descriptor "single melee attack" (or does it mean I can do it on only one attack per round but still get to throw my second punch without the eldritch blast attached to it? I am guessing not though)
he is also using a warlock's sceptre


This +1 light mace confers a +1 profane bonus on your ranged touch attack rolls while you hold it. This is a continuous effect and requires no activation.
Furthermore, a warlock’s scepter has 5 charges, which are renewed each day at dawn. Spending 1 or more charges improves the damage of the next eldritch blast (CAr 7) you make in that round.
1 charge: +1d6 damage.
3 charges: +2d6 damage.
5 charges: +4d6 damage.
After these charges have been expended, the rod remains a +1 light mace, but it no longer provides a bonus on ranged touch attack rolls until its charges are restored.
The question is, can I use the extra charges from the sceptre even if I am in melee (so, in combo with the Hideous Blow)?
Logic and instinct say yes, but the description specifies "ranged touch attack rolls" on two occasions, albeit with regards to the other bonus the item grants... in melee I'd not be using a ranged attack roll.
Does that mean I can't spend the charges during a melee hit or do the two bonus travel separately despite the one depending on the other not being depleted?

[malonkey1]

You get one attack with Hideous Blow. That's it. But you can use it alongside Hideous Blow, as it is a swift action. Honestly, you'd be better off with eldritch glave, from Dragon Magic. I believe iterative can be made with it, and even if you can'r at least you get reach and are still rolling v. touch.

[Khedrac]

I am playing a warlock that has kept the least invocation Hideous blow for those rare instances when I am forced into melee. As suggested it's a really poor choice (sorry)


I'll disregard the second attack per round because of the descriptor "single melee attack" (or does it mean I can do it on only one attack per round but still get to throw my second punch without the eldritch blast attached to it? I am guessing not though)
It is a standard action to use hideous blow - this limits you to one attack in a round in which you use it. If you did manage to make extra attacks then they would not get the blast damage as it states "1 attack".
Note, I don't think Hideous Blow even states that it does not provoke - so unless you use your ability defensively you still provoke AoOs!


he is also using a warlock's sceptre

The question is, can I use the extra charges from the sceptre even if I am in melee (so, in combo with the Hideous Blow)?
Logic and instinct say yes, but the description specifies "ranged touch attack rolls" on two occasions, albeit with regards to the other bonus the item grants... in melee I'd not be using a ranged attack roll.
Does that mean I can't spend the charges during a melee hit or do the two bonus travel separately despite the one depending on the other not being depleted?
As quoted the only part of the scepter limited to ranged attack rolls is the +1 profane bonus to hit. The charges boost your Eldritch Blast which can indeed be modified to be a Hideous Blow.

[dehro]

good :smallsmile:

I didn't go down the glaive route because my character focusses on long range, scouting invisibly and similar, he primarily stays out of range of most of the enemies. Also, I don't think we ever considered dragon magic as a source; not sure why other than maybe it's very at the back of my list of source material. My DM may not allow it. Reason for asking is I was wondering if I could swap the invocation for something more useful, but there isn't really that much left of use, in the "least invocations" range (except maybe the eldritch glaive, now you mention it...)
so I may just keep it for that elusive circumstance in which I can't dimension door the hell outta Dodge.

how does it provoke an AoO when it's used in combination with a melee attack?:smallconfused:

[Doc_Maynot]

how does it provoke an AoO when it's used in combination with a melee attack?:smallconfused:

Because all Warlock Invocations are Spell Like Abilities, and Spell Like Abilities provoke AoOs.
Using a spell-like ability while threatened provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a Concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm)

It's another reason the Glaive is better. You make a full attack as if using a reach weapon. This gives you the opportunity to 5ft step out of an enemy's threatened range and then use that Invocation.

[dehro]

gotcha.. I thought that the fact that the primary "nature" of the attack is a melee attack with just happens to have a bit of fizz attached to it cancelled out that rule.

before I start reading through the entire dragon magic volume, can I even get eldritch glaive just like that, or do I have to get talents or prestige classes to gain access to that list of invocations?

[Doc_Maynot]

gotcha.. I thought that the fact that the primary "nature" of the attack is a melee attack with just happens to have a bit of fizz attached to it cancelled out that rule.

before I start reading through the entire dragon magic volume, can I even get eldritch glaive just like that, or do I have to get talents or prestige classes to gain access to that list of invocations?

It's a Least Invocation just like any other, nothing special required to pick it up. The book was just kind enough to expand the warlock's repertoire, like many books expand casters' spell lists.

[Alanto]

The Warlock Invocations in Dragon Magic are just that, additions to the list.
There's no prerequisites for them other than, well, normal access to whatever level of Invocation you're looking at, just make sure you're looking at the Warlock ones and not the Invocations for.....whatever that other class in there's called. Dragon Shaman, I think.

Also - speaking as someone who's playing a warlock at the moment, I started with Hideous Blow because I hadn't heard of Eldritch Glaive. If you can swap out for Glaive, seriously do it, it's better in pretty much every way.

[dehro]

The Warlock Invocations in Dragon Magic are just that, additions to the list.
There's no prerequisites for them other than, well, normal access to whatever level of Invocation you're looking at, just make sure you're looking at the Warlock ones and not the Invocations for.....whatever that other class in there's called. Dragon Shaman, I think.

Also - speaking as someone who's playing a warlock at the moment, I started with Hideous Blow because I hadn't heard of Eldritch Glaive. If you can swap out for Glaive, seriously do it, it's better in pretty much every way.

I had heard about it but for some reason thought it was meant primarily for warlocks that go the melee route, which is not my case. as it is, it looks like the swap is totally worth it though, so I probably will do just the same, DM permission provided.

[dehro]

on a separate note, what is the physical manifestation of a pure, unmodified, eldritch blast? it doesn't push stuff in any direction, it doesn't "burn" the way fire does, it is not a ray, it doesn't singe, consume, alter the target in any physically manifest way, it's not like a slap in the face where your skin goes red and your head slams to the side (because if it were that, it would also be able to push or pull in a direction or the other).. if it's not a ray, how do you notice it happening (aside from the resulting drop in HP)??.. how would you describe in words, visually describe or otherwise define the nature and effects of the "blast"?
on a descriptive level, the closest I can think of is star wars stuff, but that doesn't work either..

in other words, if a character that has never seen an eldritch blast (or power) gets hit in the back by an unseen opponent, what does he feel? how does the blast impact him other than causing a non-defined/generic pain?

[Hazrond]

on a separate note, what is the physical manifestation of a pure, unmodified, eldritch blast? it doesn't push stuff in any direction, it doesn't "burn" the way fire does, it is not a ray, it doesn't singe, consume, alter the target in any physically manifest way, it's not like a slap in the face where your skin goes red and your head slams to the side (because if it were that, it would also be able to push or pull in a direction or the other).. if it's not a ray, how do you notice it happening (aside from the resulting drop in HP)??.. how would you describe in words, visually describe or otherwise define the nature and effects of the "blast"?
on a descriptive level, the closest I can think of is star wars stuff, but that doesn't work either..

in other words, if a character that has never seen an eldritch blast (or power) gets hit in the back by an unseen opponent, what does he feel? how does the blast impact him other than causing a non-defined/generic pain?

Actually, it is a ray if I remember right

[Khedrac]

gotcha.. I thought that the fact that the primary "nature" of the attack is a melee attack with just happens to have a bit of fizz attached to it cancelled out that rule.
Any remotely kind DM will agree with you and house-rule it so, but RAW it doesn't...

[dehro]

Actually, it is a ray if I remember right

so.. this is a thing?
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110116234853/pt.starwars/images/thumb/7/76/Sidious_usando_o_Rel%C3%A2mpago_da_For%C3%A7a_.jpg/320px-Sidious_usando_o_Rel%C3%A2mpago_da_For%C3%A7a_.jpg

Edit: derp.. turns out that yes, it IS a ray. still the physical manifestation of the damage done stumps me a bit, on descriptive level.

[Shinken]

It's a ray but it's not lightning.
It's just magical energy.

Also, hideous blow blows hideously.

[Ellowryn]

Despite being a ray, i always thought of Eb looking like the picture in the book, CA 6. Sort of a ball of purple arcane energy that you reach out a blast someone with.

[Snowbluff]

Also, hideous blow blows hideously.

I only use it for more d6 for the lolz. Iai + SA + EB hideousness. It's not even efficient for that lol. Only in low OP games.

[Alanto]

I had heard about it but for some reason thought it was meant primarily for warlocks that go the melee route, which is not my case. as it is, it looks like the swap is totally worth it though, so I probably will do just the same, DM permission provided.

Well, it might be worth looking at a different Least invocation altogether if you're really not expecting to get much use out of melee.

As to Eldritch Blast's manifestation it's mechanically a ray, but since there really isn't a defined description, I get the impression it's up to the player to agree something with the GM as to what's appropriate.
As an example, my group seem to have settled on it being fairly individual to whatever Warlock is using it, so I've got crackly green lightning, whereas Morthos in Complete Arcane has that misty purple thing going on.

[Shinken]

I only use it for more d6 for the lolz. Iai + SA + EB hideousness. It's not even efficient for that lol. Only in low OP games.

This is bad and you should feel bad.

[Chronos]

With my warlock, I described it as a "beam of crackling black energy", but that's purely my invention; it's nowhere in the books. I could also have gone with "silvery energy", or the like, and might have, depending on how the character developed. I was also planning on eldritch essences changing the appearance: For instance, with Sickening Blast, the black is now intertwined with green the color of a zombie's vomit.

[nedz]

so.. this is a thing?
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110116234853/pt.starwars/images/thumb/7/76/Sidious_usando_o_Rel%C3%A2mpago_da_For%C3%A7a_.jpg/320px-Sidious_usando_o_Rel%C3%A2mpago_da_For%C3%A7a_.jpg


Er no, but there is Eldritch Chain and Eldritch cone.

As to Hideous Blow, you'd have been better off 5' stepping and using a standard Blast freeing up your invocation slot for something else.
You can use it with a reach weapon — long spear IIRC.

[Troacctid]

I didn't go down the glaive route because my character focusses on long range, scouting invisibly and similar, he primarily stays out of range of most of the enemies. Also, I don't think we ever considered dragon magic as a source; not sure why other than maybe it's very at the back of my list of source material. My DM may not allow it. Reason for asking is I was wondering if I could swap the invocation for something more useful, but there isn't really that much left of use, in the "least invocations" range (except maybe the eldritch glaive, now you mention it...)
so I may just keep it for that elusive circumstance in which I can't dimension door the hell outta Dodge.

There are plenty of good least invocations to choose from that aren't blast shapes.


See the Unseen (see invisibility + darkvision), Serpent's Tongue (scent and +5 bonus to saves vs poison), All-Seeing Eyes (+6 to search and spot, comprehend all written languages), and Otherworldly Whispers (+6 on knowledge arcana/planes/religion, handy for monster knowledge checks) are good for scouting.
Baleful Utterance lets you point at something and make it explode, which is awesome and has a lot of applications.
Darkness provides you and your allies with 20% concealment, and if it becomes inconvenient, it can easily be turned on and off by covering and uncovering the object you cast it on (presumably something small like a belt buckle).
Call of the Beast turns you into Dr. Doolittle, which is occasionally useful--need to sneak past some guard dogs who can smell you through your invisibility? Wild Empathy those bitches!
If you want a blast shape, you could try Eldritch Spear, which lets you use your eldritch blast for long-range sniping.

[Segev]

The three things Hideous Blow does that Eldrich Glaive does not are:

Attack adjacent squares
This is a disadvantage outside of exceptionally limited circumstances; you would prefer to take a 5-ft.-step and get out of AoO-provocation range, anyway
Use weapon damage plus the blast damage
Since Eldrich Glaive gets multiple attacks, you'd have to be more than doubling your blast damage by adding weapon damage to it in order for this to be worthwhile
Take only a standard action
If you're worried about moving into position, you should just be blasting at range anyway

[dehro]

My current selection is
Baleful utterance,
See the unseen,
Hideous blow

Eldritch chain
Fell flight
Walk unseen

Chilling tentacles
Devour magic

And have eldritch spear loaded on a rod, for limited use.
Not the most optimised of selections, but so far it works for me.

[nedz]

The three things Hideous Blow does that Eldrich Glaive does not are:

Attack adjacent squares
This is a disadvantage outside of exceptionally limited circumstances; you would prefer to take a 5-ft.-step and get out of AoO-provocation range, anyway
Use weapon damage plus the blast damage
Since Eldrich Glaive gets multiple attacks, you'd have to be more than doubling your blast damage by adding weapon damage to it in order for this to be worthwhile
Take only a standard action
If you're worried about moving into position, you should just be blasting at range anyway

Hideous Blow also requires a standard to hit role, whereas Eldritch Blast and Glaive are touch attacks.


My current selection is
Baleful utterance,
See the unseen,
Hideous blow

Eldritch chain
Fell flight
Walk unseen

Chilling tentacles
Devour magic

And have eldritch spear loaded on a rod, for limited use.
Not the most optimised of selections, but so far it works for me.

So you haven't burned any feats on Extra Invocation ?

[Ellowryn]

I also recomend picking up Flee the Scene, at will Dimension Door + free Major Image that automatically acts exactly like it should is far to good to pass up.

[thompur]

I also recomend picking up Flee the Scene, at will Dimension Door + free Major Image that automatically acts exactly like it should is far to good to pass up.

I agree. The other advantage of FTS is that it's one of the very few invocations that you can use to help and positively affect your teammates.

[dehro]

I thought about it. I think the only lesser invocation I could do without is eldritch chain. Fell flight and walk unseen are kind of his shtick. Adding a third "evade and scarper" invocation seemed overkill.

[Ellowryn]

I thought about it. I think the only lesser invocation I could do without is eldritch chain. Fell flight and walk unseen are kind of his shtick. Adding a third "evade and scarper" invocation seemed overkill.

Says the squishy character.

[MeeposFire]

Just remember that eldritch glaive is screwy. For instance it gives you mutliple attacks but only what you get from your BAB. That means it does not work with haste and since it is not an actual full attack it does not benefit from things that work with full attacks. This can get kind of confusing.

[dehro]

Just remember that eldritch glaive is screwy. For instance it gives you mutliple attacks but only what you get from your BAB. That means it does not work with haste and since it is not an actual full attack it does not benefit from things that work with full attacks. This can get kind of confusing.

Yes, you confused the crap out of me, lol

[Ellowryn]

Although, ironically, as it is specifically a full round action it adds any sneak attack damage to each hit, assuming such attacks qualify.

Of note though, spells like Divine Power do enhance it, as does any additional effects tied to hitting a target in melee.

[MeeposFire]

Although, ironically, as it is specifically a full round action it adds any sneak attack damage to each hit, assuming such attacks qualify.

Of note though, spells like Divine Power do enhance it, as does any additional effects tied to hitting a target in melee.

What does a full round action have anything to do with sneak attack? Sneak attack applies because it is an attack that uses an attack roll (it helps that Complete Arcane specifies that sneak attack works with eldritch blast) not because it used a full round action (which no normal attack uses as they use full attack actions which are a specific type of full round action).

As for divine power it is one of the few ways to get more attacks via eldritch glaive since it improves your BAB which is the only thing that gives you additional attacks with that invocation.

[MeeposFire]

Yes, you confused the crap out of me, lol

Exactly though I will try to explain.

Eldritch glaive says it allows you to make melee touch attacks as your base attack bonus allows. It does not say you can get extra attacks any other way and in addition most ways of getting extra attacks specifically call for a "full attack action" which if you read the description you never use with the eldritch glaive (it uses a full round action to use the invocation which is similar but not the same).

Oddly this does mean you can do things like if you get to use this invocation as a swift action somehow you get to make all those attacks as a swift action and then can use your full round action to use it again for another full set of attacks.

Most of the confusion comes from the problem of not realizing that "full attack action" is a full round action but not all full round actions are full attack actions. It is the all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares idea.

[Ellowryn]

What does a full round action have anything to do with sneak attack? Sneak attack applies because it is an attack that uses an attack roll (it helps that Complete Arcane specifies that sneak attack works with eldritch blast) not because it used a full round action (which no normal attack uses as they use full attack actions which are a specific type of full round action).

As for divine power it is one of the few ways to get more attacks via eldritch glaive since it improves your BAB which is the only thing that gives you additional attacks with that invocation.

Be cause normally you cant apply sneak attack damage to a spell, or in this case spell-like ability, with multiple attacks unless it is a full round action.

[Dalebert]

In my game, I treated it as its own energy type and decided that it disrupts on the cellular level. For objects (I believe it can do structural dmg) it's similar, as in it does general damage on the micro level and weakens something structurally. Because it's an energy type, it can be chosen in spells like energy resistance. It's vague but that's how I fleshed out the details a little for my game.

[MeeposFire]

Be cause normally you cant apply sneak attack damage to a spell, or in this case spell-like ability, with multiple attacks unless it is a full round action.

Well actually what you are thinking of probably deals with the rules on volleys such as the many shot feat. The rule for that applies since it is one attack roll for many attacks and so the sneak attack only works with the first attack. IT does not care that the attack is a full round action or a standard action (in fact while many shot is a standard action that only gets one instance of SA greater many shot is a standard action that gets sneak attack on all shots since it rolls for each arrow).

If you are thinking of the multiple hits section under sneak attacks in complete arcane then you are still mistaken. I will quote this one section for clarity

"Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster gets a bonus on damage with such spells(including sneak attack damage), the extra damage only applies to the first attack whether that attack hits or not."

So we actually have two mistakes here

1. The section does not mention action types at all. So it does not matter whether the attack is a standard action (such as hideous blow) or a full round action (glaive) since it does not make distinction for either in the rules.

2. By the rules as written glaive cannot deal multiple instances of SA damage since it strikes multiple times in the same round and so you can only get SA damage on the first attack with it even though it is a full round action.


Unless you have another source with an updated rule that specifically says something different it appears you can only get SA once with eldritch glaive.

[Ellowryn]

I was just writing off what i remembered from another post about making it so you can sneak attack off of a scorching ray that was raised to be a full round action. Its not actually my argument, but i cant seem to find where i put the link to the thread.

Guess that will teach me write what others have said. :smalltongue:

[MeeposFire]

I was just writing off what i remembered from another post about making it so you can sneak attack off of a scorching ray that was raised to be a full round action. Its not actually my argument, but i cant seem to find where i put the link to the thread.

Guess that will teach me write what others have said. :smalltongue:

Its ok I actually never knew that you could not get multiple SA using eldritch glaive. I thought the same as you (I just thought it was due to the volly rules versus multiple seperate attack rolls rather than action type) and am surprised to see this differently now.

I wonder if they updated the language in the Rules Compendium to allow for multiple SAs on a eldritch glaive.

[MeeposFire]

Also realize that eldritch glaive despite its name is not a weapon so many feats and abilities not listed in Complete Arcane do not work with it (and many that do work with it are ranged feats).

Also I don't see anything that allows for things like str damage on the roll and the like so many ways of boosting damage on weapons are not open to you.


Eldritch glaive is much more limited than you might think.

Eldritch claws are a much better option mechanically (overall less confusing as well) BUT they are Dragon Magazine content which makes them unavailable in many groups (mostly due ot he poor quality found in it many times though this is a decent one). It is a bit odd though in that it is a feat rather than a blast shape (another one of the weird design decidsions you will fin d in Dragon Magazine).

If you can use it I would recommend it as it is a much better option overall.

[Segev]

Huh. Do you have to concentrate on the image left behind by Flee the Scene, or does it act like you would've acted were you still there without you even having to think about it?

It could be interesting to leave an illusion behind that's capable of carrying out conversation for the few rounds it exists. Maybe even pulling a Loki and saying, "Oh, sorry, this was an illusion. The real me left half a minute ago."

[Ellowryn]

Well, it only lasts one round, but yes you do NOT have to concentrate on it. It acts appropriately so if it gets shot, it acts like it get shot, if someone talks to it it will answer back. If this doesnt make sense then tell yourself this: ITS MAGIC, i ain't got to explain ****!

[dehro]

would be fun to spam it if it lasted more than a round,
like this guy from x men 3
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100117043400/marveldatabase/images/thumb/4/46/X-Factor_Vol_3_47_page_00_James_Madrox_(Earth-616).png/250px-X-Factor_Vol_3_47_page_00_James_Madrox_(Earth-616).png

[nerghull]

Note on Hideous blow and AoO : http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/975156


Q: Does using Hideous Blow in melee provoke an attack of oppertunity?

A: Hideous Blow does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

[bekeleven]

If you are thinking of the multiple hits section under sneak attacks in complete arcane then you are still mistaken. I will quote this one section for clarity

"Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster gets a bonus on damage with such spells(including sneak attack damage), the extra damage only applies to the first attack whether that attack hits or not."

[...]

By the rules as written glaive cannot deal multiple instances of SA damage since it strikes multiple times in the same round and so you can only get SA damage on the first attack with it even though it is a full round action.
Eldritch Glaive is not a spell.

Without a more specific ruling, sneak attack damage applies whenever its conditions are met.

[dehro]

uhm.. does true seeing see through the major image? because if so, that portion of Flee the Scene is going to become pointless real quick.. we're wading through infernal creatures and demons at the moment, and the villains seem to come equipped with true seeing, probably because I've been abusing Walk Unseen a little.

[inertia709]

Just remember that eldritch glaive is screwy. For instance it gives you mutliple attacks but only what you get from your BAB. That means it does not work with haste and since it is not an actual full attack it does not benefit from things that work with full attacks. This can get kind of confusing.

On the plus side though, you can get two full attacks in a round 3 times per day if you take Quicken Spell-Like Ability(Eldritch Glaive).

[dehro]

question about devour magic
it basically casts greater dispel magic and gives you temporary HP in exchange, 5xlevel of spell.
going by the definition of dispel magic (which is what greater dispel magic refers you to) when applied to a magic item it only temporarily dampens it's magical properties.
does that mean I can use it multiple times on the same item without breaking its magical properties indefinitely?
if so, I might just use it on my own items as an emergency healing.. as it is, I am carrying some 10 magic items at all times, for a grand total of a crapload of temporary hitpoints.

[Shinken]

Eldritch Glaive is not a spell.

Without a more specific ruling, sneak attack damage applies whenever its conditions are met.

It's a spell-like ability and thus the rules for volley attack apply.
Of course, those rules state you get sneak attack damage on all hits with eldritch glaive, so I don't see much point in trying to avoid them anyway. :smalltongue:




Unless you have another source with an updated rule that specifically says something different it appears you can only get SA once with eldritch glaive.

That rule is updated and clarified in Rules Compendium, explicitly saying you apply sneak attack on multiple hits if you used a full-round action.
It has a few other interesting effects, such as a Sorcerer casting metamagic'ed Scorching Ray getting sneak attack on all 3 rays.

[nedz]

question about devour magic
it basically casts greater dispel magic and gives you temporary HP in exchange, 5xlevel of spell.
going by the definition of dispel magic (which is what greater dispel magic refers you to) when applied to a magic item it only temporarily dampens it's magical properties.
does that mean I can use it multiple times on the same item without breaking its magical properties indefinitely?
if so, I might just use it on my own items as an emergency healing.. as it is, I am carrying some 10 magic items at all times, for a grand total of a crapload of temporary hitpoints.

Yes, but I don't think that the temp HP stack — so just buy an otherwise useless item with a high spell level.

[dehro]

Though my main idea was that it's nice to have the option to use them in sequence and not necessarily making them stack, since you've raised an interesting point, I've been looking around. I don't quite know where to look, but I don't see anything stating that those HP don't stack.

[Shinken]

Though my main idea was that it's nice to have the option to use them in sequence and not necessarily making them stack, since you've raised an interesting point, I've been looking around. I don't quite know where to look, but I don't see anything stating that those HP don't stack.

As a general rule, effects from the same source don't stack.

[Person_Man]

You also might want to take a look at the Dragonfire Adept, which is also in Dragon Magic. It's basically an upgraded version of the Warlock.

[Snowbluff]

You also might want to take a look at the Dragonfire Adept, which is also in Dragon Magic. It's basically an upgraded version of the Warlock.
That's certainly debatable. A couple of the invocations are better and they can be Con SAD, but they have no options for attacks rolls and little PrC support. This pigeon holes there build development. As far as I am concerned, that makes them a much worse class.

They don't seem to have imbue item, either.

[malonkey1]

Ngeeeeeh...I wouldn't say "upgraded". They're about on an even ken, I would say.

[dehro]

dragonfire adept doesn't really work with the character, storywise... and would have my DM grumbling.
as it is, I'm fairly happy with a full warlock... and we're on a summer break anyway, until september, I think.

[Ellowryn]

For other tips and tricks and whatnots i also recommend looking at the Warlock Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?252715-The-New-Warlock-Handbook-3-5-WIP).

[dehro]

For other tips and tricks and whatnots i also recommend looking at the Warlock Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?252715-The-New-Warlock-Handbook-3-5-WIP).

it's in my favourites, together with other class handbooks, but I always find I have a hard time collating all the info into one simple build... which is also made more difficult by the fact that dipping into semi-obscure classes for the sole purpose of getting that one feat, talent or combo that lets you reach punpunity is very much frowned upon by the guy who runs the game, and I actually agree with him
By obscure class I mean that short list of classes that people tend to go to primarily for their combo value because it gives access to other classes and so on.. classes that are hard to justify ongame without stretching the character's "story" into clownesque twists and turns
most of these handbooks take into consideration every source available when they suggest builds, and when your master allows manuals but not the magazines and doesn't allow a certain number of those manuals (such as for instance tome of battle).. suddenly the proposed builds become unfeasible and you have to sort of put together something with what's left.. which is what I suck at.
that said, this character has mostly been very satisfying to play and fairly capable to pull his weight in battle (despite me once forgetting I should roll for concentration and then being blasted into oblivion by a earth elemental)

[MeeposFire]

Interesting with that change in the rules (I only have complete arcane and not the spell compendium) it does seem you get sneak attack on eery attack with the glaive (which is what I initially thought before I reread the CA rules).

It is also odd that they rule spells differently from weapon attacks in this fashion. The volley rules for weapons do not care about the action type and only care whether the attack is several attacks on one roll ( a volley like many shot) or multiple attack rolls (like greater many shot that does get SA on every attack). Apparently this leads to weirdness in the rules such as scorching ray only getting SA once with a wizard but multiple times with a sorc with meta magic (how does that make sense).

I think this also means that if you use quicken with the glaive then you only get SA on the first attack and then you can use the regular version and get SA on every attack using the same basic invocation. This is an odd rule.

See what I mean eldritch glaive is a weird beast and is only getting weirder as we go down the rabbit hole. :smallwink:

[dehro]

wait... what?
:smalleek:
no, seriously, could you break down the sneak attack thing in a "for dummies" manner? I don't get it.

[Chronos]

The rule is simple. The reason for the rule is not simple, because it makes no sense.

If you do something that takes a full-round action and gives you multiple attacks, all of those attacks can Sneak Attack (provided that the other requirements are met, either target denied Dex or flanked). If you do something that takes a shorter action and gives you multiple attacks, only the first one can Sneak Attack (again, provided all other requirements are met).

[Malroth]

uhm.. does true seeing see through the major image? because if so, that portion of Flee the Scene is going to become pointless real quick.. we're wading through infernal creatures and demons at the moment, and the villains seem to come equipped with true seeing, probably because I've been abusing Walk Unseen a little.

Buy or create scrolls of Invisible spell: Obscuring Mist. Blinds true seeing foes but doesn't inconvinence anyone else

[MeeposFire]

The rule is simple. The reason for the rule is not simple, because it makes no sense.

If you do something that takes a full-round action and gives you multiple attacks, all of those attacks can Sneak Attack (provided that the other requirements are met, either target denied Dex or flanked). If you do something that takes a shorter action and gives you multiple attacks, only the first one can Sneak Attack (again, provided all other requirements are met).

Caveat we are only talking about spells as things like the feat greater many shot are different.

[Chronos]

Greater Manyshot works because it makes a specific exception to the general rule, not because it's not a spell.

[MeeposFire]

Greater Manyshot works because it makes a specific exception to the general rule, not because it's not a spell.

Ah you are using the Rules Compendium eh? Hmm I guess ti will depend on whether you believe that is the actual final source for that rules because I do not believe that rule is in force outside of that book and depending on how you feel about the Rules Compendium (whether you think it supersedes the primary books or not) you may not be using that rule. Since that is more of a question than what I want to deal with I am just going to let it go.

Granted I do not know how many people will be playing rabid mongoose using builds that don't get SA on their attacks...