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OmniSlacker
2014-08-04, 11:58 AM
So, I'm the DM of a game wherein I'm trying to tell an interesting story. Several people in the group attest that it is in fact a cool story, however, there's always one problem player. The guy that stays on his phone or laptop throughout the whole game, not participating, not even realizing what's going on half the time. After having been a DM for a few months now, I now realize how teachers feel. You can't -force- someone to pay attention, so when a battle happens (let's compare that to a test) that one problem player doesn't know what's going on and usually fails.

If he just wanted to play a more comedic campaign, I'd be fine with that, but he keeps showing up to this one, which tells me he enjoys it to some degree. It's getting to the point where I'm either going to stop DM'ing, or just ask him to leave if he doesn't want to be there. So, I guess I need to ask a question if I want this to turn into a meaningful discussion and not a whinefest.

So, have you ever dealt with difficult players before? And if so, how did you deal with them?

hymer
2014-08-04, 12:09 PM
There's a third option: Let them come, and just keep going regardless of them. Don't spend time on explaining things to the inattentive player (or preparing anything with regards to the PC), just keep moving. In combat, everyone has to make up their minds quickly. If they don't, their character doesn't do anything that round. Count down from ten, if they haven't started declaring by the time you reach zero, next guy's up.

But really, you have to talk to this player before you choose an option. S/he needs to know, stated clearly, how this behaviour affects the game and you.
And you all have to agree to some table rules, one of which should be that while playing you play. No books, laptops, or phones that are not there because they are needed for play.

Red Fel
2014-08-04, 12:31 PM
But really, you have to talk to this player before you choose an option. S/he needs to know, stated clearly, how this behaviour affects the game and you.

This, most of all. (Amazing how often this little piece of advice keeps popping up, isn't it?)

Perhaps the player is genuinely busy. Perhaps the player doesn't feel engaged, and there's something you could be doing. Perhaps the player doesn't realize that what he's doing is problematic, or bothers you or the other players. Whatever the reason, talk first.

Be non-confronational. Don't accuse, don't raise your voice. Just speak to the player - alone, audiences can make people defensive - and explain that you want the game to entertain everyone, this player included, which is why it frustrates you when you feel like he's only half-there. Ask if there is something you can do to make the game more engaging. Be ready if he offers suggestions.

It's possible that's all it will take. Once he realizes his conduct is a bother, he may well change it for the better. Problem solved.

It's also possible that this won't be enough. Perhaps he shrugs off your concerns, or they don't seem to sink in, or he really doesn't care. At that point, Hymer has raised a reasonable point. You can start a session with a (non-accusatory) announcement that non-game materials should be put aside (with exceptions made for emergencies), and that matters will be moving somewhat more briskly; encourage the players (singling nobody out) that they should plan their actions out in advance. In any given scene, don't wait for someone who's inattentive. When combat happens, be ready to move swiftly from one turn to the next. If this player stumbles and stalls, he gets skipped. It may hurt a bit, but it will get the message across. But be very careful to apply this fairly - no favoring any players. This isn't about making enemies or punishing anyone, it's about resolving the issue that bothered you - that an inattentive player was holding matters up.

Cikomyr
2014-08-04, 01:29 PM
I always found that "no laptop or cellphone a the gaming table" is a reasonable rule to adopt. Previous groups i have been in started to feel how bad for the atmosphere some peole constantly being distracted would be.

Exception would obviously be for receiving calls. But a continued SMS conversation? Nop.

If you need references, just print them before getting here.

Only exception tolerated is the DM, for his own notes and reference.

BRC
2014-08-04, 01:34 PM
First of all, how disruptive is his behavior? Is his lack of attention frequently causing problems, or is it just bothering you.

Second, have you spoken to him about this?

Arbane
2014-08-04, 02:52 PM
I always found that "no laptop or cellphone a the gaming table" is a reasonable rule to adopt. Previous groups i have been in started to feel how bad for the atmosphere some peole constantly being distracted would be.


One 'house rule' I've heard for that: At the start of the game, everyone puts their phone in a pile on the table. First person to pick theirs up outside of a break has to pay for pizza.

It could be Cell Phone Guy is just there because he enjoys hanging out with the other players? As people have said, talk to them before you do anything drastic.

draken50
2014-08-04, 03:00 PM
I have a consistent no phones/laptops at the table rule. Personally I think having a player distracted/uninvolved is distracting even to the more focused players.

I do of course make exceptions if a player has a reasonable need for their phone, expecting a call from the mom or whatnot. I play with adults and if a business call comes in, I understand their need to take it. In exchange for their respect in those situations, I will pause the game and allow everyone to take a break while they resolve their issue, talk with their mother... whatever.

On the occasion where a player is distracted by their phone:
I point out that I told them it was a phone/laptop free game, and that they are being a jerk.
I'll ask what they are needing to use the phone at that moment too, and in most cases point out that they could wait for a break and that they're being a jerk.
Then if they were giving me B.S. excuses I will request that they turn their phone off and put it somewhere they don't have access to it without it being super obvious (A counter-top away from the playing area usually.)
In the event that they do have a reason for the phone mother/work/ect. but are using it for reasons aside from that, I will point out that they are a bigger jerk for taking advantage of my exception and that if they are unable to put the phone down, they can wait for their important call away from the table, and return when they can shut it off and pay attention.

Laptops I find to be innately distracting and if the person needs to set an audible alert when waiting for an email or the like that's fine, but no laptops at the table... ever.

Three things:
1) I have these rules for all players at the table, not just those who have been obnoxious about it.
2) It needs to be clear that it is a violation of the social contract of the game, and refusing to abide the rules means you leave the table.
3) I have never had a player leave my game because of these particular rules. I have had grumbling because a player wanted to farm in WOW during the game, and because a player was texting a girl he liked, but in every situation the player put the distraction away in order to game. (Also if my game is so boring that you have to play WOW during it, why the hell are you even playing?)

Jay R
2014-08-04, 03:40 PM
You can't make him pay attention, but you don't have to wait for him, either.

DM: OK, George, it's your initiative. What does Ragnar do?
George (looks up from laptop): What? Oh, what's the situation?
DM: Ragnar looks around unsure what to do. George, I'll get back to you at the end of the round. If you're not ready then, Ragnar loses the action. Mary, you're next. What does Persephone do?

jedipotter
2014-08-04, 06:07 PM
So, have you ever dealt with difficult players before? And if so, how did you deal with them?

All the time...too many time. Far, far to often just one problem person like this ruins the game night for everyone. I don't even bother being nice about it any more. It's pointless to try. A problem person is beyond hope.

My house rules have the ''no phones/computer/tablet line''. And I'll give one warning to ''get off your phone and play the game.'' After that, I just go hard core.

If I can, I will just tell the person to leave. ''You have wasted my time and the groups time, get out of my house. Goodbye."

If not, I will just ignore them. When they are on the phone, and their turn comes up, I will just skip them without saying anything. Should they be off the phone, I'll still skip them but with the warning. And often not let them do much of anything in the game for at least an hour. Unless they can turn off the phone and play.....

Cikomyr
2014-08-04, 08:54 PM
If I see a player bring a laptop to the gaming table, I usually say nothing until I notice he's being distracted by it. If that happens, I just gently ask him if he could maybe close his computer for the game session.

If he denies, I ask him what's so important for him to see. If it's "notes", I tell him I'd rather he print them and brings them next game.

If there's nothing important really; just distraction, I ask him if he thinks my game is boring, 'cause he obviously needs a distraction from it.

Sidmen
2014-08-04, 09:04 PM
If I see a player bring a laptop to the gaming table, I usually say nothing until I notice he's being distracted by it. If that happens, I just gently ask him if he could maybe close his computer for the game session.

If he denies, I ask him what's so important for him to see. If it's "notes", I tell him I'd rather he print them and brings them next game.

If there's nothing important really; just distraction, I ask him if he thinks my game is boring, 'cause he obviously needs a distraction from it.

I am this player. I've long since stopped using pen and paper for my character sheet and use a Googledoc instead. Most times my tablet is actually turned off, facing me. I only ever power it up when combat begins or I need to look up something I don't rightly remember.

So, I appreciate DMs like you who wait to see if the device is distracting before outright banning them.

Cikomyr
2014-08-04, 09:14 PM
I am this player. I've long since stopped using pen and paper for my character sheet and use a Googledoc instead. Most times my tablet is actually turned off, facing me. I only ever power it up when combat begins or I need to look up something I don't rightly remember.

So, I appreciate DMs like you who wait to see if the device is distracting before outright banning them.

I'd still ask you, in private, if you wouldn't mind printing your character sheet. Nothing wrong with keeping your stats up to date on a computer, but it might give the wrong idea to the other players that I actually don't mind. And it's a slippery slope. :smallwink:

Like I said, I'd probably be nice and gentle about it. Plus, I'd probably bribe you with a sweet character sheet software, or a ebook, or maybe even maps and diagrams of places we have explored so you can check on it in your spare time...


It's always easier to get people to do something if you appear reasonable and helpful :D

edit: or I might actually draft you into helping me. Like putting up pictures I sent you on the tablet so every players get to see.

And now, your tablet has becomed the GM's tool and viewscreen :smallamused: Resistance is Futile. You will adapt to serve Us.

Arbane
2014-08-04, 11:01 PM
One guy in my current group has his character sheet on some smartphone app, but he still manages to get engaged in the game. So that's not _always_ bad.

Knaight
2014-08-04, 11:11 PM
First of all, how disruptive is his behavior? Is his lack of attention frequently causing problems, or is it just bothering you.
If the person actually has a character in the game, it's really frustrating. The GM can try to keep them engaged, but that drains effort from everything else. The character just sort of being there not being played causes problems, as either you're having the character do things without the player making those decisions (which is really uncomfortable to do as a non-railroad GM), or they're standing around and it breaks immersion.


It could be Cell Phone Guy is just there because he enjoys hanging out with the other players? As people have said, talk to them before you do anything drastic.

That's the sense I get as well, and having the person as a bystander who's part of the hanging out but doesn't actually have a character solves it nicely. It's a good suggestion to make when bringing up how disruptive the behavior is.

Sidmen
2014-08-04, 11:32 PM
I'd still ask you, in private, if you wouldn't mind printing your character sheet. Nothing wrong with keeping your stats up to date on a computer, but it might give the wrong idea to the other players that I actually don't mind. And it's a slippery slope. :smallwink:

Like I said, I'd probably be nice and gentle about it. Plus, I'd probably bribe you with a sweet character sheet software, or a ebook, or maybe even maps and diagrams of places we have explored so you can check on it in your spare time...


It's always easier to get people to do something if you appear reasonable and helpful :D

edit: or I might actually draft you into helping me. Like putting up pictures I sent you on the tablet so every players get to see.

And now, your tablet has becomed the GM's tool and viewscreen :smallamused: Resistance is Futile. You will adapt to serve Us.Heh.

The reason I switched from paper sheets to the tablet is because, as the GM for a weekly game, it gets used exactly for those purposes. I became so accustomed to looking up the monster stats on the tablet (PDFs beat the heck out of thousand-pound books) that it started to feel wrong to have paper sheets.

Of course, if it became an issue - I'm not melded to the thing. I can use paper sheets, it'd just feel weird that I couldn't flip to page 3 to find the full details of my power/spell/whatever written out in full.

nedz
2014-08-05, 03:52 AM
I have one guy who uses a lap top in the game. He was playing a Cleric with a Wizard Cohort and had all their spells prepared stored on a couple of spreadsheets. He also used another spreadsheet to manage the parties loot. This was not a problem, far from it really.

Personally I routinely look up spells, feats, rules etc. on my phone — which, again, is useful.

Banning these tools outright is unhelpful.

Sidmen
2014-08-05, 05:13 AM
I have one guy who uses a lap top in the game. He was playing a Cleric with a Wizard Cohort and had all their spells prepared stored on a couple of spreadsheets. He also used another spreadsheet to manage the parties loot. This was not a problem, far from it really.

Personally I routinely look up spells, feats, rules etc. on my phone — which, again, is useful.

Banning these tools outright is unhelpful.
I understand the sentiment though.

One of my players is always looking at her phone when she isn't the center of attention. Looking at pictures of cats with captions or whatever. At first I was growing increasingly annoyed at it, before I used my analytical side and noticed that she didn't take any time to respond when it was her turn to do something - so she must be paying attention. Even still, the glow of the screen gets to me whenever I look in her direction.

prufock
2014-08-05, 07:50 AM
You can't make him pay attention, but you don't have to wait for him, either.

DM: OK, George, it's your initiative. What does Ragnar do?
George (looks up from laptop): What? Oh, what's the situation?
DM: Ragnar looks around unsure what to do. George, I'll get back to you at the end of the round. If you're not ready then, Ragnar loses the action. Mary, you're next. What does Persephone do?

This is perhaps the best in-session option, though after the first time I might just skip him if he isn't ready. I don't mind a player needing clarification on the scene, especially if we aren't using minis, but they should at least have an idea of what is happening and what they're going to do. If the player doesn't learn soon,it's time for an out-of-character discussion.

All of my players use either a laptop or a phone for information. After all, Excel does character sheets pretty well, d20srd is online, as is dndtools. Lots and lots of use out of online resources, and it's often quicker than doing a book search. It sometimes bugs me, though, since I know some people are browsing facebook or reading comics at times. I look at it as part of my job to keep them interested and invested to limit this as much as possible. Of course it's a cooperative game, and its part of their job to BE interested and invested.

Cikomyr
2014-08-05, 08:29 AM
I understand the sentiment though.

One of my players is always looking at her phone when she isn't the center of attention. Looking at pictures of cats with captions or whatever. At first I was growing increasingly annoyed at it, before I used my analytical side and noticed that she didn't take any time to respond when it was her turn to do something - so she must be paying attention. Even still, the glow of the screen gets to me whenever I look in her direction.

Because its distracting.

Not to her, but to you. As GM, you are thr person in need of having your mind 100% on the game. A cellphone open might distract you, just like a cellphone open might distract actors in a stage play.

In that case, just admit its about you, and not about the player. You cannot GM wihout being distracted by a cellphone open at the table. It happens.

draken50
2014-08-05, 02:45 PM
Those bringing up using the phone or tablet for game related data do have a point.

I do tend to ask that they bring it in a non-electronic format the next time though. I certainly wouldn't ban a character for bringing a character sheet on a tablet. Though I would be annoyed if it got used for playing angry birds as the players were getting to know one another.

On the other hand, as the GM I do try to provide enough copies of players guides to avoid folks having to wait to look at one, and if I was running a game where I only had 1 book I'd probably allow laptops for looking up rules and the like. I just prefer to run without them.

I still find phones distracting even if the player is paying attention simply because I feel players in my games either get engaged or disengaged in the game as a group. I've not really seen one player sit back with a phone and the others stay as... immersed I guess. It seems like the one distraction even if not really used in a way to draw attention, distracts the others. Like if one player starts looking at a text the others will look at his phone even if they can't see the words and get distracted from what is happening in game. Just my experience, others may be different of course.

When everyone is engaged, players whose characters aren't in the scene seem to be thinking about what they'd do or say ect. Though I do of course try to keep party splitting to a minimum. Seems to have worked so far.

Airk
2014-08-08, 09:17 AM
The issue here is not cel phone or laptop at the gaming table. As has been pointed out, there are legitimate uses for this.

The issue here is someone not paying attention.

I agree with the people who say "It sounds like this person is there to hang out because this is what their friends are doing on Thursdays, or whatever, but that they don't really have any interest in playing the game." Ask them if this is the case.