Need help with Dragonborn Cleric of Bahamut Build

[PangolinPie]

See...I'm that guy that is always willing to accommodate others in a game, basically filling in whatever needed roll in the party is. Recently the player who was going to play our cleric dropped out of the game due to scheduling conflicts so I decided to switch from a Paladin build to a Cleric.

I like the thematics of a Dragonborn Cleric that worships Bahamut and the Domains look impressive enough. Thing is I've never actually done a Cleric build before and am unfamiliar with a lot of the feats and techniques to doing so. I know that most people say doing a straight 20 level Cleric is usually the optimal choice but I just wanted to see what options were out there. I guess I'd like to make him a good balance of buffing/healing and martial abilities since we already have a tanker in the group.

Also anyone know how I could qualify for the War Domain so I can get that free weapon focus feat? I'll probably go with the Greatsword.

EDIT: Decided to go with the Dragon God "Io" which gets me the domains for Strength and Travel; much more versatile.

[PangolinPie]

.....have I reallly annoyed everyone to a stand still? LOL

[TiaC]

It's the middle of the night for the Americas. There aren't many people on. Straight cleric 20 is pretty rare. Cleric has no class features after level 1, so almost anything that advances casting is better. What are your stats, starting level and allowed sources?

In-combat healing is usually a bad idea, out of combat just use wands.

[Darthor]

You can check on Cleric Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0)

[Rethmar]

If you're going Io, there's a prestige class called Singer of Concordance that you can look into.

[Red Fel]

See...I'm that guy that is always willing to accommodate others in a game, basically filling in whatever needed roll in the party is. Recently the player who was going to play our cleric dropped out of the game due to scheduling conflicts so I decided to switch from a Paladin build to a Cleric.

I like the thematics of a Dragonborn Cleric that worships Bahamut and the Domains look impressive enough. Thing is I've never actually done a Cleric build before and am unfamiliar with a lot of the feats and techniques to doing so. I know that most people say doing a straight 20 level Cleric is usually the optimal choice but I just wanted to see what options were out there. I guess I'd like to make him a good balance of buffing/healing and martial abilities since we already have a tanker in the group.

Also anyone know how I could qualify for the War Domain so I can get that free weapon focus feat? I'll probably go with the Greatsword.

EDIT: Decided to go with the Dragon God "Io" which gets me the domains for Strength and Travel; much more versatile.

Okay. Let's get to it. Several things.

First: What kind of Cleric do you want? Cleric is a great chassis that can be modified to do just about anything. Be a full caster. Take Cloistered Cleric for a bonus Knowledge Devotion. Become a melee beast. Take DMM and Persistent Spell for day-long buffs. And that's before we even consider the PrCs.

You say you want a "good balance of buffing/healing and martial abilities." That's a bit vague. So let me make a few points on that: Buffing: There are three feats you need to be an effective Cleric buffer - Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, and Divine Metamagic. DMM, because it lets you metamagic divine spells. Extend Spell, because it's a prereq for Persistent Spell. And Persistent Spell, because it turns your buffs into day-long affairs. Stock up on sources of bonus Turn Undead uses, and go to down with your day-long buffs. Healing: Ugh, this again. Okay. You're new at Cleric, so let me dispel one of the greatest myths about them - Clerics are not walking band-aids. Or, at least, they're so much more than that. Healing in combat is a criminally inefficient affair. You can pick up a few wands of Vigor or Cure Light Wounds and get very efficient out-of-combat healing. In-combat healing is generally only a case of absolute emergencies. (Or, in the alternative, play a Crusader.) My advice, grab some wands. Remember also that as a Good Cleric, you can use spontaneous healing in a pinch; as such, there is no reason to waste a prepared slot on healing spells. Just don't. Melee: Okay, once again, you really only need three things to start. Divine Favor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divineFavor.htm) is a 1st-level spell that will carry you well until you get Divine Power. Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) is a 4th-level spell that is simply awesome, and you will love. Keep it on at all times. Finally, Righteous Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm) is a 5th-level spell that will make you a golden god of war. Divine Power and Righteous Might, together, make you a terrifying force in melee. If you can Persist them, you're in an even better place.
Those are the basics of being a Cleric. Everything else is a matter of personal preference and style.

As a side note, I mentioned Cloistered Cleric. Cloistered Cleric will give you the Knowledge Domain for free, which you can translate into the Knowledge Devotion feat for free, which is great for melee bonuses. Further, Divine Power will make up for the Cloistered Cleric's weak spot, its inferior BAB. So keep that in mind.

Now, on to Bahamut-specific stuff. Have you seen the Initiate of Bahamut feat? Take it, for goodness' sake. It adds spells to your list and gives you a Smite Evil. Two, since you're Dragonborn.

As for Io... What does Io have to do with anything? I'm genuinely curious. I get that, as a Dragonblooded character, your PC might be interested in the Draconic pantheon. But as a Dragonborn, he owes a very specific allegiance to Bahamut over any other deity, at least fluff-wise.

Now, if your DM is willing to waive that little fluff detail, and say that Bahamut is okay with giving you his awesome blessing only for you to turn around and snub him, the Initiate of Io feat is... Well, in my opinion, not as good as Initiate of Bahamut. (I mean, the IoB feat turns you into an avatar of the freaking Platinum Dragon himself. That's pretty sick.) IoI does let you take Draconic feats as a Sorcerer of your Cleric level, which is... Nice? Some of those feats are okay. Most are a bit disappointing, really. (Ooh, you get claws and natural armor, how pretty.)

Your choice of PrC will depend heavily on what you want to do with your Cleric. Two favorites of mine, for example, are the Ordained Champion and Fist of Raziel, but both would require some refluffing (the former, a way to replace the Hextor/Heironeous prereq with Bahamut; the latter, treating Servant of the Heavens as loyalty to Bahamut, or something similar). However, if you're not focusing on melee, those might not be the best choice for you.

[Darrin]

I like the thematics of a Dragonborn Cleric that worships Bahamut and the Domains look impressive enough. Thing is I've never actually done a Cleric build before and am unfamiliar with a lot of the feats and techniques to doing so. I know that most people say doing a straight 20 level Cleric is usually the optimal choice but I just wanted to see what options were out there. I guess I'd like to make him a good balance of buffing/healing and martial abilities since we already have a tanker in the group.


The first question you need to answer as a cleric: Is "DMM Persist" allowed? And even if it is allowed, it tends to suck up all your available feats, so you wind up with a fairly boring, repetitive build.

If you don't go the DMM Persist route, then I like to take Sacred Boost (Complete Divine), which I know is not very optimized, but I hate casting a CLW spell and rolling a "1". Imbued Healing (Complete Champion) could also be useful: Strength = +2 melee damage or Travel = +5' speed. I figure if you're ok with being a healbot, then why not be a really good healbot.

I'd probably swap the Strength Domain for the Strength Devotion (more useful buff for melee). Io also has Knowledge... I'd be tempted to go Cloistered Cleric for Knowledge Devotion, although that's more of a DMM thing with Persisted Divine Powah! Something else you can convert your unused TUs into would be nice, maybe Domain Spontoneity or Divine Might.

As for PrCs, Dracolyte (Draconomicon) is kinda designed for worshiping dragon deities, albeit designed somewhat poorly: two boring prereq feats, and not a lot of class features. But it has 10/10 CL, a dragon cohort of some sort, and a decent capstone.

[PangolinPie]

It's the middle of the night for the Americas. There aren't many people on. Straight cleric 20 is pretty rare. Cleric has no class features after level 1, so almost anything that advances casting is better. What are your stats, starting level and allowed sources?

In-combat healing is usually a bad idea, out of combat just use wands.

I'm New York :P



If you're going Io, there's a prestige class called Singer of Concordance that you can look into.

Definitely worth considering :O



Okay. Let's get to it. Several things.

First: What kind of Cleric do you want? Cleric is a great chassis that can be modified to do just about anything. Be a full caster. Take Cloistered Cleric for a bonus Knowledge Devotion. Become a melee beast. Take DMM and Persistent Spell for day-long buffs. And that's before we even consider the PrCs.

You say you want a "good balance of buffing/healing and martial abilities." That's a bit vague. So let me make a few points on that: Buffing: There are three feats you need to be an effective Cleric buffer - Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, and Divine Metamagic. DMM, because it lets you metamagic divine spells. Extend Spell, because it's a prereq for Persistent Spell. And Persistent Spell, because it turns your buffs into day-long affairs. Stock up on sources of bonus Turn Undead uses, and go to down with your day-long buffs. Healing: Ugh, this again. Okay. You're new at Cleric, so let me dispel one of the greatest myths about them - Clerics are not walking band-aids. Or, at least, they're so much more than that. Healing in combat is a criminally inefficient affair. You can pick up a few wands of Vigor or Cure Light Wounds and get very efficient out-of-combat healing. In-combat healing is generally only a case of absolute emergencies. (Or, in the alternative, play a Crusader.) My advice, grab some wands. Remember also that as a Good Cleric, you can use spontaneous healing in a pinch; as such, there is no reason to waste a prepared slot on healing spells. Just don't. Melee: Okay, once again, you really only need three things to start. Divine Favor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divineFavor.htm) is a 1st-level spell that will carry you well until you get Divine Power. Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) is a 4th-level spell that is simply awesome, and you will love. Keep it on at all times. Finally, Righteous Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm) is a 5th-level spell that will make you a golden god of war. Divine Power and Righteous Might, together, make you a terrifying force in melee. If you can Persist them, you're in an even better place.
Those are the basics of being a Cleric. Everything else is a matter of personal preference and style.

As a side note, I mentioned Cloistered Cleric. Cloistered Cleric will give you the Knowledge Domain for free, which you can translate into the Knowledge Devotion feat for free, which is great for melee bonuses. Further, Divine Power will make up for the Cloistered Cleric's weak spot, its inferior BAB. So keep that in mind.

Now, on to Bahamut-specific stuff. Have you seen the Initiate of Bahamut feat? Take it, for goodness' sake. It adds spells to your list and gives you a Smite Evil. Two, since you're Dragonborn.

As for Io... What does Io have to do with anything? I'm genuinely curious. I get that, as a Dragonblooded character, your PC might be interested in the Draconic pantheon. But as a Dragonborn, he owes a very specific allegiance to Bahamut over any other deity, at least fluff-wise.

Now, if your DM is willing to waive that little fluff detail, and say that Bahamut is okay with giving you his awesome blessing only for you to turn around and snub him, the Initiate of Io feat is... Well, in my opinion, not as good as Initiate of Bahamut. (I mean, the IoB feat turns you into an avatar of the freaking Platinum Dragon himself. That's pretty sick.) IoI does let you take Draconic feats as a Sorcerer of your Cleric level, which is... Nice? Some of those feats are okay. Most are a bit disappointing, really. (Ooh, you get claws and natural armor, how pretty.)

Your choice of PrC will depend heavily on what you want to do with your Cleric. Two favorites of mine, for example, are the Ordained Champion and Fist of Raziel, but both would require some refluffing (the former, a way to replace the Hextor/Heironeous prereq with Bahamut; the latter, treating Servant of the Heavens as loyalty to Bahamut, or something similar). However, if you're not focusing on melee, those might not be the best choice for you.

Well the other players are a Barbarian/Paladin/Champion of Gwynharwyf, a Monk/Unarmed Swordsage, a Wilder Blaster, a Swift Hunter and a Gnome Illusionist. So I guess with the martial offensive route covered I could go full buff/casting with the weapon focus Greatsword (Bahamut) for added martial capabilities if needed. I may actually go with that now that I'm reconsidering it with the Initiate of Bahamut feat.

And because you asked, I considered Io because it gets me both the Strength and Travel domains...and in turn Strength and Travel Devotion...



The first question you need to answer as a cleric: Is "DMM Persist" allowed? And even if it is allowed, it tends to suck up all your available feats, so you wind up with a fairly boring, repetitive build.

If you don't go the DMM Persist route, then I like to take Sacred Boost (Complete Divine), which I know is not very optimized, but I hate casting a CLW spell and rolling a "1". Imbued Healing (Complete Champion) could also be useful: Strength = +2 melee damage or Travel = +5' speed. I figure if you're ok with being a healbot, then why not be a really good healbot.

I'd probably swap the Strength Domain for the Strength Devotion (more useful buff for melee). Io also has Knowledge... I'd be tempted to go Cloistered Cleric for Knowledge Devotion, although that's more of a DMM thing with Persisted Divine Powah! Something else you can convert your unused TUs into would be nice, maybe Domain Spontoneity or Divine Might.

As for PrCs, Dracolyte (Draconomicon) is kinda designed for worshiping dragon deities, albeit designed somewhat poorly: two boring prereq feats, and not a lot of class features. But it has 10/10 CL, a dragon cohort of some sort, and a decent capstone.

Our GM is really laid back so I'm sure DMM persist won't be an issue. I'll consider the cloistered cleric as well.

[Red Fel]

As for PrCs, Dracolyte (Draconomicon) is kinda designed for worshiping dragon deities, albeit designed somewhat poorly: two boring prereq feats, and not a lot of class features. But it has 10/10 CL, a dragon cohort of some sort, and a decent capstone.

Can a Dragonborn take Dracolyte? One of the prereqs is "nondragon." Dragonborn don't have the Dragon type, but they do have the Dragonblood subtype, which allows them to be treated as dragons. Does that disqualify them?

Seems rather silly, if it does. It's otherwise a fairly flavorful class.

[Gildedragon]

Note that you can still be a paladin with cleric, see the Prestige Paladin option, dip 1-4 for most paladin abilities.
With a Crusader 1 or Fighter 1 dip you can enter the class at lvl 6 (if you aren't doing a mounted paladin because of ACFs ask about swapping mounted combat and ride prereqs to some other similar ones)
With exoticist fighter 1 you could get dragonchain as a weapon which is cool and versatile, and if you use another of your free ewps to get use of a heavy metal dragonchain you can have a platinum dragon-chain as your main weapon

Ask about maybe making a bahamut themed radiant servant... Seeing how Baha is all for mercy and kindness a class like radiant servant would be fitting.
Or ordained champion (again refluffed to bahamut)