What's the best PrC to pair with Sandshaper 10?

[aleucard]

A campaign that I'm going to be playing in will have the vast majority of playtime occur in terrain that suits the Sandshaper perfectly. I intend on going for the full 10 levels with (probably) a Wizard 5 base. The most likely thing I'll take at Wiz5 is Spontaneous Divination, assuming that something more fitting/interesting doesn't present itself. What I'm interested in for this discussion is if you people can come up with a fun, interesting, and/or amusing character build that incorporates Sandshaper 10. Absolutely everything officially DnD, Dragon Magazine included, with the single exception of Tome of Battle, is allowed. If your build negates ASF or removes the need for Somatic Components, that would also be appreciated (I may take a page out of Gaara's playbook and coat my PC in sand as a form of armor, then possibly color it so the only hint is me weighing about 50 or so pounds more than I should). Expect a LOT of Shapesand to be involved. :smallcool::smallbiggrin:

Right now,the best idea I got is loading up on Shadowcraft Mage and call it good. Honestly, though, that's a class that I'm pretty sure that Tippy would approve of (by level 5, you can use Illusions to fake multiple entire spell schools at will, with absolutely no power loss at spell levels 8 or higher, with probably better duration for bonus points), and as such I'm worried that it may be a bit too much for this campaign, even with the -2 CL from Sandshaper.

[aleucard]

Assistance would be appreciated... Why's nobody posting?

[Snowbluff]

Assistance would be appreciated... Why's nobody posting?

The savior of empty advice threads is here! Not too OP, right? I'll brainstorm on your face.

Master Specialist is good for filling out builds, depending on your spec. Necromancy or Transmutation, right?

Abjurant Champion, since your BAB will be high enough by then. With Inquistion Domain (Planar Touchstone), you can land +14 Dispels as a Swift Actions. A few other bonuses and you'll be at full.

Incantatar if you focusing on buffing...

Speaking of which, War Weaver for mass buffing!

[iTreeby]

I will give you bonus points if you use wu-jen to qualify for sandshaper.

Anyway, the problem with Sandshaper is that you lose two caster levels and don't get to much for them. so, pick something that has a full progression and fits with your theme.

[gorfnab]

Paragnostic Apostle (CM) - lots of moderately useful abilities, easy to qualify for, and is decent for finishing a build.

[A_S]

Runesmith does the armor thing for you, is 5 levels long, and has full caster progression (though you'd have to pick up the armor proficiencies as feats if you don't dip...the bonus feat Wizard ACF would help there). If you feel like being a dwarf.

[aleucard]

The savior of empty advice threads is here! Not too OP, right? I'll brainstorm on your face.

Master Specialist is good for filling out builds, depending on your spec. Necromancy or Transmutation, right?

Abjurant Champion, since your BAB will be high enough by then. With Inquistion Domain (Planar Touchstone), you can land +14 Dispels as a Swift Actions. A few other bonuses and you'll be at full.

Incantatar if you focusing on buffing...

Speaking of which, War Weaver for mass buffing!

I'm mainly wanting this to fit the Sandshaper class as much as possible, so if I do a specialization of any kind (remember, some very good options for generalist are on the table that normally aren't), it'll probably be Evocation (with homebrew spells that screw with sand and similar materials) or Transmutation (ditto, as well as useful existing options).

This won't be a gish of any kind. The layer of sand would be there for boosting my defenses and probably giving some Temp HP. As such, Abjurant Champion and (to a lesser degree, it's nice but I don't think it fits) Runesmith are no-goes.

Incantatrix is even more absurd than Shadowcraft Mage. I'm a Primary Caster, I already got a stupid amount of power as-is.

Wu Jen may actually be one of the most fitting base classes of all time for this. Would be fun to play, at least.

I'd be happy to pick classes that fit the theme, but the problem is that I'm drawing blanks on that. Hence the reason I posted this thread.

There's some fun things in Paragnostic Apostle, but not enough that fits my character to warrant the full 5 levels. I don't like taking classes that progress something I'll never have, anyway, despite how minor that thing really is (Holy Text).

[captain fubar]

typically sand shaper is used as a single level dip to expand the spells known of a spontaneous caster expecaly those with a small list.

in this case however you are taking it longer and losing caster levels so mitigating this is probably a high priority.

master specialist an easily be entered early if you plan on being highly specialized any way this will make the caster level loss less painful

spell guard of silvery moon offers an extra caster level at fifth the early levels also are useful for buffing or blasting, if you are not adverse to cheese the ability to turn certain spells like say transcend mortality or tensors transformation from personal to touch can be very effective.

also the spell guards ability to cast personal spells at touch range works quite well with war weaver

the time needed to shape the sand is based on the craft dc so a featureless wall with a volume of 2 cubic feat or less could be made as a non-action if you have immunity to thrown books.

[jiriku]

Divine Oracle provides useful defenses and is reasonable to get into.

[aleucard]

typically sand shaper is used as a single level dip to expand the spells known of a spontaneous caster expecaly those with a small list.

in this case however you are taking it longer and losing caster levels so mitigating this is probably a high priority.

master specialist an easily be entered early if you plan on being highly specialized any way this will make the caster level loss less painful

spell guard of silvery moon offers an extra caster level at fifth the early levels also are useful for buffing or blasting, if you are not adverse to cheese the ability to turn certain spells like say transcend mortality or tensors transformation from personal to touch can be very effective.

also the spell guards ability to cast personal spells at touch range works quite well with war weaver

the time needed to shape the sand is based on the craft dc so a featureless wall with a volume of 2 cubic feat or less could be made as a non-action if you have immunity to thrown books.

Since I have access to nearly the entirety of 3.5, I'm probably going to go for either Domain Wizard, the Elven Generalist Substitution, or some other thing that works with having no restrictions on spell schools.

Spellguard is location-specific, meaning that its main point of existence probably isn't present in the campaign world.

I MAY use that little Shapesand trick if I have need of an 'Oh, ****' button. The DM is already aware that I'll be gathering at least a couple for any character I make, though I'll inform him of these ahead of time.

Divine Oracle looks nice, though how it'd work outside of Domain Wizard I'm not sure. That's definitely going on the list of possibilities.

EDIT: I ran the numbers, and a 1 inch thick, 5x10 wall (enough to completely seal a door, though not all THAT securely) is 4 1/6 cubic feet of material. In order to get the maximum size that I can do in 0 minutes, I have to reduce the thickness to .48 inches. That wall is going to be pretty damn thin at that point, barely more than breaking LOS/LOE, and there are much better ways of doing that, even with a 1-round-or-less time limit. 'Oh, Sh#@' button, indeed.

EDIT: I am a moron. 2 cubic feet converted to inches is 24x12x12, not 24x24x24. After a bunch of mathematical gymnastics, a 1-inch-thick 5'x10' slab reduces to 24x12x25 inches. that means that I can make at most a 2 1/12 inch thick slab big enough to cover a Medium door (presumably, 5x10 feet in game terms, though probably less in most uses). That's a good bit better than a bit under half an inch. Still not that hard for a Barbarian to put his foot through, but at the very least it's not tissue paper.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Paragnostic Apostle (CM) - lots of moderately useful abilities, easy to qualify for, and is decent for finishing a build.

This. It is so generically useful that it is amazing. It also has buffs for those Summon Desert Ally spells you will be taking

[captain fubar]

that means that I can make at most a 2 1/12 inch thick slab big enough to cover a Medium door (presumably, 5x10 feet in game terms, though probably less in most uses). That's a good bit better than a bit under half an inch. Still not that hard for a Barbarian to put his foot through, but at the very least it's not tissue paper.

correct you are, that super thin wall is mostly for blocking line of sight/effect however as making this wall doesn't require any action the number of such walls you can either layer or spread out in a round is limited only by the amount of shape sand you are willing to carry around.

if you really want to stick to raw you can even make them make them less than 1 cubic foot and argue that it takes -5 minutes to craft then produce them retroactively.

[aleucard]

correct you are, that super thin wall is mostly for blocking line of sight/effect however as making this wall doesn't require any action the number of such walls you can either layer or spread out in a round is limited only by the amount of shape sand you are willing to carry around.

if you really want to stick to raw you can even make them make them less than 1 cubic foot and argue that it takes -5 minutes to craft then produce them retroactively.

Were I the DM and tried to stick to RAW as much as possible, I'd probably rule that that limit's grand-total for a round, thus meaning I would have to go by 1 layer per round. Just how much Shapesand is this, anyway? I know that it comes in Jugs, which probably means that unless the jug itself is shapesand that it's 100 GP/3 Pounds and 3 Pounds=1 Gallon, and converting that to Cubic Feet is the work of like 5 seconds in google, but still.