Superman in Pre-Epic

[AMFV]

Recently there's been a lot of discussion of statting Supes. I'm wondering if he is possible to stat pre-epic or something similar. Obviously we aren't going to have a full powered Superman (since he's pretty nigh deity level power in and of himself). What I want to see is if we can stat him at such a level that somebody could play a similar concept. The more we can get innately the better, and the lower level and more accessible we can make it the better.

For reference here are Superman's Abilities briefly summarized:

Super Strength, Super Speed, Flight, Invulnerability or a very high resistance to damage, Cold Breath, and Heat Vision.

I recognize that in the comics Superman has a vulnerability to magic, however that seems slightly inappropriate for a game where magic effectively replaces guns and explosives it might seem almost more appropriate to have SR. Although I'm not sure how manageable that is.

As far as the optimization threshold for this challenge: Let's go with Practical Optimization with that being defined as something that you would feel comfortable presenting at your own tables, again we are focusing on playability over accuracy of model, so if we can't get his innate strength to bench press planets, then that's fine.

When I was thinking about this previously I looked extensively at Hidecarved Dragon and Green Star Adept. The former because of it's nice immunities, and the latter because of it's thematic appropriateness although I don't remember much of what I'd come up with then. I also was looking pretty heavily at Mineral Warrior.

And the prize for this contest is two tickets to Seaworld Krypton (which probably have depreciated in value slightly since the sea boiled following the planet's destruction), a years supply of Kryponite, and a solid steel pacifier.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Just a few quick questions.


Are we going with a concept rather than numbers? To clarify if the build has a higher strengh than is typical starting stat 18+Level ups+level appropriate enhancment and inherent bonuses considered super strong?

Are spells (psionics, etc.) and magic items allowed? What if they're never seen being used? (all day buffs and tiny slotless items and/or cape, boots, belt, shirt)? One of the better entries (I think he went 1-2) in the Fighter 20 vs wizard 13 contest was jokingly called Superman by his handler. I think I recall him being a pretty good likeness aside from raw power level.

[Arbane]

Don't forget ridiculously high ranks in Spot and Listen, and X-Ray Vision.

[AMFV]

Just a few quick questions.


Are we going with a concept rather than numbers? To clarify if the build has a higher strengh than is typical starting stat 18+Level ups+level appropriate enhancment and inherent bonuses considered super strong?

Well that's really a judgement call, I think that we should probably aim for at a minimum the low 30s, but that's really again a judgement call here. I'm more looking for how close can we get? than any specific number.



Are spells (psionics, etc.) and magic items allowed? What if they're never seen being used? (all day buffs and tiny slotless items and/or cape, boots, belt, shirt)?

As I said, I'd like for us to get as much as we can innately, but I'm not sure where the ceiling on that would be, whatever means we need beyond that point are fine, although I'd like to try to not get too far off from the fluff (Girallion Arms would be a stretch, mostly because of the visual), although I'm not sure how possible that is, so again it's how close can we get?


Don't forget ridiculously high ranks in Spot and Listen, and X-Ray Vision.

We should probably skip X-Ray vision, I know of only one way to model it, and I don't think that it would work all that well. The Spot and Listen are a good call. Although it might not even be possible to build him with all of his powers intact. I'd rather get the spirit of the flying brick than have all of his hodgepodge of powers.

And I do note that I'm making a lot of style and taste calls here, so I'm fully expecting to get a wide range of things for that particular goal, and if I'm not articulating well enough let me know, and I'll try to ramble some more.

[With a box]

I think that 17th psion can break the game as same degree of superman dose

[AMFV]

I think that 17th psion can break the game as same degree of superman dose

So can a 17th level Wizard (or potentially lower with sufficient cheese). We're not really looking for game breaking we're looking to simulate a character like Superman who exists in a D&D framework. It's a modeling challenge.

[heavyfuel]

I think a list of abilities is in order for this challenge. According to DC wiki (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_(Clark_Kent)), his powers are:

Superhuman strength: Capable of lifting well over 100 tons;
Invulnerability: Actually an invisible force field that radiates millimeters away from his skin;
Longevity;
Near Unlimited Stamina: Actually unlimited when under sunlight;
Flight: Perfect maneuverability from what's shown in movies and comic books;
Superspeed: Faster than light;
Superhearing: Capture noises from around the globe;
Supersmell: Capture smells from around the globe;
Self-Sustenance: Doesn't need to sleep, eat or breath;
Healing Factor: Heal almost instantaneously from most wounds;
Superbreath: Can create hurricanes and freeze targets;
Heat vision: Hotter than a star;
"Supervision": Electro magnectic vision, Telescopic vision, Microscopic vision and X-Ray vision
Hand-to-hand combat expert;
Genius level intelect;
Indomitable will;
Investigation;
Journalism;
Leadership;
Ventriloquism.

Also his weaknesses:

Magic, Chi and Psionics: This is huge in D&D, as all 3 exist (assuming "Chi" is the same as the Monk's "Ki");
Kryptonite: Doesn't exist in D&D;
Lead blocks his vision powers.


Seriously, good luck getting all of this before epic without some major cheesing on the same scale as PunPun

[Hand_of_Vecna]

You left out feats of love making beyond the capabilities of mortal man.

[Segev]

I think I'd start with Elan Psion, using the Vigor/Share Pain/Psicrystal trick to get "invulnerability." Go Nomad for access to Psionic Fly (sadly, still 2 levels after a wizard could get it, but only 1 after a sorcerer, and neither wizard nor sorcerer can match the Vigor/Share Pain/Psicrystal trick).

Energy Ray can be fluffed to come from the eyes. There are various ways to get cold attacks in cones; sadly, getting the powerful force of his super-breath will be harder.

Perhaps a Wizard/Psion->Cerebromancer.

[AMFV]

I think a list of abilities is in order for this challenge. According to DC wiki (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_(Clark_Kent)), his powers are:

Superhuman strength: Capable of lifting well over 100 tons;
Invulnerability: Actually an invisible force field that radiates millimeters away from his skin;
Longevity;
Near Unlimited Stamina: Actually unlimited when under sunlight;
Flight: Perfect maneuverability from what's shown in movies and comic books;
Superspeed: Faster than light;
Superhearing: Capture noises from around the globe;
Supersmell: Capture smells from around the globe;
Self-Sustenance: Doesn't need to sleep, eat or breath;
Healing Factor: Heal almost instantaneously from most wounds;
Superbreath: Can create hurricanes and freeze targets;
Heat vision: Hotter than a star;
"Supervision": Electro magnectic vision, Telescopic vision, Microscopic vision and X-Ray vision
Hand-to-hand combat expert;
Genius level intelect;
Indomitable will;
Investigation;
Journalism;
Leadership;
Ventriloquism.

Also his weaknesses:

Magic, Chi and Psionics: This is huge in D&D, as all 3 exist (assuming "Chi" is the same as the Monk's "Ki");
Kryptonite: Doesn't exist in D&D;
Lead blocks his vision powers.


Seriously, good luck getting all of this before epic without some major cheesing on the same scale as PunPun

Which is why we aren't trying for that... if you'll reread the OP, it mentions that we're trying to see how close we can get. Furthermore, you're talking about the Silver Age Superman. Superman's power levels vary widely based on incarnation. The one that can do everything is from the Silver Age, he's pretty explicitly Pun Pun. But the Smallville Superman or equivalent, that should be manageable.


I think I'd start with Elan Psion, using the Vigor/Share Pain/Psicrystal trick to get "invulnerability." Go Nomad for access to Psionic Fly (sadly, still 2 levels after a wizard could get it, but only 1 after a sorcerer, and neither wizard nor sorcerer can match the Vigor/Share Pain/Psicrystal trick).

Energy Ray can be fluffed to come from the eyes. There are various ways to get cold attacks in cones; sadly, getting the powerful force of his super-breath will be harder.

Perhaps a Wizard/Psion->Cerebromancer.

Well how would get to his physical attributes, a template and the Meditant could certainly help with that, but even then we're not all the way there from just that, I don't think...

[Segev]

Well how would get to his physical attributes, a template and the Meditant could certainly help with that, but even then we're not all the way there from just that, I don't think...

Well, do you want it for massive physical damage? You can get Intelligence to attack and damage with Control Body manifested on yourself. Greater cheese if you pass control to your psicrystal; then you can attack AND use powers of your own at the same time.

If you want it for lifting, we're probably going to have to rely on Telekinetic Force, which gives us 250 lbs plus 25 lbs per pp used to augment it. That's ranged, though, so you're faking it when you lift with your hands.

Superman isn't particularly known for his dexterity, and we've achieved most of his constitution by the faux invulnerability of the temp hp.

Pick up the feat that improves the Elan bonus to saves to +6 and you'll avoid most poisons and other such effects.

[AMFV]

Well, do you want it for massive physical damage? You can get Intelligence to attack and damage with Control Body manifested on yourself. Greater cheese if you pass control to your psicrystal; then you can attack AND use powers of your own at the same time.

If you want it for lifting, we're probably going to have to rely on Telekinetic Force, which gives us 250 lbs plus 25 lbs per pp used to augment it. That's ranged, though, so you're faking it when you lift with your hands.

Superman isn't particularly known for his dexterity, and we've achieved most of his constitution by the faux invulnerability of the temp hp.

Pick up the feat that improves the Elan bonus to saves to +6 and you'll avoid most poisons and other such effects.

Well the goal was mostly the physical effect, and you can replicate that. Although it's not quite as innate as we'd like, it does come online very, very early, and that's pretty worthwhile. This actually closer to Superboy, who did lift things using telekinesis (tactile telekinesis, since Comics are weird)

So no other takers? We've got at least one good entry. I can also throw in a fabulous Kryptonian Cruise... and no, I'm not just trying to unload all of these things now that the planet's went and exploded.

[Seppo87]

If refluffing, LA buyoff, flaws and alignment freedom are allowed, I'll give it a try.

[Rubik]

A Widened, Burrowing Power'd Touchsight could simulate X-Ray Vision, and psionic action economy breakage gets the speed part down, whether through movement or through additional standard actions. A StP erudite (or a psion who steals the StP erudite's schtick in some way) can throw in spells to make him ridiculously physically strong, through Extended, Persisted Greater Consumptive Field and Extended, Persisted Strength of My Enemy.

[AMFV]

If refluffing, LA buyoff, flaws and alignment freedom are allowed, I'll give it a try.

Absolutely! As I said the only goal is to make something that you would be able to ask for at a notional table. That varies heavily based on your table, and like most things in Optimization is a matter of taste and opinion.

[Segev]

This actually closer to Superboy, who did lift things using telekinesis (tactile telekinesis, since Comics are weird)

I was actually thinking this after I posted. I will say that "tactile telekinesis" makes a certain amount of sense; it allows for weird lift-points and holding objects together that should break apart because the force is applied across the whole structure, but keeps it "looking" like super-strength because you have to at least touch the thing to be lifted.

This build doesn't model that perfectly; I might suggest trying to talk a DM into a researched power that lets you get Tactile Telekinesis as a lower-level power. Reduce the range, keep the weight and augmentation limits.

[Xuldarinar]

Personally, I'd peg superman as a Psychic Warrior under 3.5.

If one opens up pathfinder, then while psychic warrior still fits, I feel an Aegis would work just as well if not better.

Form the astral suit into an Astral Juggernaut (Bonus points if it can be invisible, just for effect) with the following customizations, assuming a 20th level character (this can me reduced for lower levels):
Augmented Weapon, Brawn, Darkvision, Flexible Suit, Flight, Fortification*, Hardened Strikes, Hardy*, Improved Damage, Improved Damage Reduction, Improved Retaliate, Improved Stalwart, Powerful Build, Psionic Attacks, Psionic Damage, Retaliate, Speed, and Stalwart*

*Free Augmentations.

[heavyfuel]

Which is why we aren't trying for that... if you'll reread the OP, it mentions that we're trying to see how close we can get. Furthermore, you're talking about the Silver Age Superman. Superman's power levels vary widely based on incarnation. The one that can do everything is from the Silver Age, he's pretty explicitly Pun Pun. But the Smallville Superman or equivalent, that should be manageable.

No, I did read that you're only trying to get as close to it as possible. I just put the list of powers there so people can have a guideline of what they're trying to emulate. While you're right that Silver Age Supes is the equivalent of PunPun, he's also the most famous superman. Ask around about Superman's powers and the average list you'll get won't be far from this one. As such, your unspecified version of Superman should default to the one I presented because it's the most obvious one.

If you want to emulate the Superman from the early seasons of Smallville, it's surely easier, but then you should have said so.

So... Supes... He's really MAD. He has really high Str, Dex, Con, Int and Cha. The only stat you might get away with a lower score is Wis. Since he punches people, he gets no magic weapon to help him out. He also has spells/psionics to help him fly and x-ray vision about but this can be emulated through magical items. A major problem of yours is going to be WBL.

I also think that SR is out of character, despite the exception you made in the OP. There may not be bullets in D&D, but there are guys swinging swords so hard they can kill an elephant in single blow (104 HP). That's stronger than a freaking bullet! So the SR you mentioned should really be substituted for high DR/magic (or DR/epic if you feel like DR/magic sucks too much in 3.5)

[AMFV]

Well we've managed quite a few options mostly involving Psionics, so the question is can we do it in a build where most of the abilities are innate? Although admittedly that's much harder. I know we can do a lot with grafts (Eye Beams for example).


No, I did read that you're only trying to get as close to it as possible. I just put the list of powers there so people can have a guideline of what they're trying to emulate. While you're right that Silver Age Supes is the equivalent of PunPun, he's also the most famous superman. Ask around about Superman's powers and the average list you'll get won't be far from this one. As such, your unspecified version of Superman should default to the one I presented because it's the most obvious one.

Well that would be the case, except that I provided a generic list of powers as well. Furthermore, I think you'll find that Silver Age Superman is most derided version, particularly among comic fans.



If you want to emulate the Superman from the early seasons of Smallville, it's surely easier, but then you should have said so.

Not even that necessarily, the point is to try to get as close as is possible, even that may be impossible. We're not trying to get a model that can do all of the same things as Superman, we're trying to get as close to Superman at as early a level as possible, so different modeling goals as opposed to an "accuracy is a paramount" model, which wouldn't be possible pre-epic.



So... Supes... He's really MAD. He has really high Str, Dex, Con, Int and Cha. The only stat you might get away with a lower score is Wis. Since he punches people, he gets no magic weapon to help him out. He also has spells/psionics to help him fly and x-ray vision about but this can be emulated through magical items. A major problem of yours is going to be WBL.

Well that's clearly a limiting factor on an early build that uses only innate focus. We probably don't need to need to have Int that high above average, since his high Int isn't presented as being that far above average. Charisma could be slightly above average. The physical stats are what are harder to emulate. Although Dex could be low, since he's not presented as superhumanly agile.



I also think that SR is out of character, despite the exception you made in the OP. There may not be bullets in D&D, but there are guys swinging swords so hard they can kill an elephant in single blow (104 HP). That's stronger than a freaking bullet! So the SR you mentioned should really be substituted for high DR/magic (or DR/epic if you feel like DR/magic sucks too much in 3.5)

I was suggesting that SR might be a possible way to simulate his invulnerability. The weakness to magic is notably a weakness to something that is almost never present in the setting. So making him weak to magic seems to be disingenuous with the idea, and since we're trying for conceptual stuff rather than exact accuracy. That should be alright.

[Rubik]

Well we've managed quite a few options mostly involving Psionics, so the question is can we do it in a build where most of the abilities are innate? Although admittedly that's much harder. I know we can do a lot with grafts (Eye Beams for example).Psionics is explicitly stated to be innate, so any psionic power qualifies.

[AMFV]

Psionics is explicitly stated to be innate, so any psionic power qualifies.

Well maybe as far as RAW, but it's not exactly the same feel. Furthermore I was fine with the Psionic build presented it works well for Superboy, but I was just curious about some variety of builds.

[Rubik]

Well maybe as far as RAW, but it's not exactly the same feel.The "feel" is whatever you make it. Eye-lasers are eye-lasers, whether you spend power points on a (fire) Energy Ray or spend an X/day ability on Scorching Ray.


Furthermore I was fine with the Psionic build presented it works well for Superboy, but I was just curious about some variety of builds.Fair enough.

[Seppo87]

Well maybe as far as RAW, but it's not exactly the same feel. Furthermore I was fine with the Psionic build presented it works well for Superboy, but I was just curious about some variety of builds.
I'm currently making a quasi-mundane one. It's going to take some time, I like to take care of details. Also, I can't decide between options.
I want to make him fly with Balance On the Sky but that would require a lot of martial adept levels. The worst part is that it comes into play really late.
Unseelie Fey would give Superman flight at first level, but it also makes him vulnerable to Iron, which is kind of ridiculous. It would also require to fluff out his wings. I don't really like to change fluff too much.
Same goes for grafts and the likes.
I believe Blanace on the Sky is the most elegant solution, but mechanically it happens way too late.
(Note that Swordsage Levels are going to be added anyway, since most maneuvers can be easily adapted to represent Superman Powers. I.E. shadow hand teleports are pretty good at emulating super-speed bursts. Mountain Hammer does not need an explaination. Hearing the Air really helps with the super-senses. And so on)

Opinions before I go on? BotS or Unseelie Fey?
Or a different kind of wings? Or a magic item?
Or (thanks Rubik) Warlock?

[Rubik]

How about a warlock?

Lex Luthor is right! He really is Chaotic Evil in disguise!

[Seppo87]

How about a warlock?
Hmm, that's right. Warlock flies at will.
Eldritch Blast could be refluffed as heat-vision.
It would solve two issues at once.

Not bad.

[AMFV]

I'm currently making a quasi-mundane one. It's going to take some time, I like to take care of details. Also, I can't decide between options.
I want to make him fly with Balance On the Sky but that would require a lot of martial adept levels. The worst part is that it comes into play really late.
Unseelie Fey would give Superman flight at first level, but it also makes him vulnerable to Iron, which is kind of ridiculous. It would also require to fluff out his wings. I don't really like to change fluff too much.
Same goes for grafts and the likes.
I believe Blanace on the Sky is the most elegant solution, but mechanically it happens way too late.
(Note that Swordsage Levels are going to be added anyway, since most maneuvers can be easily adapted to represent Superman Powers. I.E. shadow hand teleports are pretty good at emulating super-speed bursts. Mountain Hammer does not need an explaination. Hearing the Air really helps with the super-senses. And so on)

Opinions before I go on? BotS or Unseelie Fey?
Or a different kind of wings? Or a magic item?

Well we could definitely include both options, and see how they're different as far as the character is. Also we could try to get flight some other way if we absolutely need to.

[Red Fel]

What about making him Daelkyr, and refluffing Kryptonite as Byeshk?

I mean, technically, he is a highly durable alien with a mineral-based weakness, right?

[Aliek]

For immunity to damage may I suggest a dip in Pugilist(Fighter variant from Dragon) and one of the myriad of ways to be immune to nonlethal damage? :smallbiggrin:

"shake it off", one of its skills read as "the pugilist develops non-lethal damage only"

[Rubik]

Could always go for Persisted Delay Death + Boar's Ferocity. Immunity to death from damage.

[Seppo87]

Wait, he's *really* immune to damage? Not just very resilient? I thought Doomsday punches hurt him.

[Rubik]

Wait, he's *really* immune to damage? Not just very resilient? I thought Doomsday punches hurt him.And how often, exactly, has Superman died? Not just "get put into a healing coma," but died?

And maybe Doomsday has Dispelling fists.

[Segev]

I believe Blanace on the Sky is the most elegant solution, but mechanically it happens way too late.
(Note that Swordsage Levels are going to be added anyway, since most maneuvers can be easily adapted to represent Superman Powers. I.E. shadow hand teleports are pretty good at emulating super-speed bursts. Mountain Hammer does not need an explaination. Hearing the Air really helps with the super-senses. And so on)

Look at the Tiger Claw jump-related maneuvers for low-level "flight." Pre-Golden Age Superman actually could only leap very high (that's where "leap tall buildings in a single bound" comes from). With the right maneuvers and a good investment in Jump, your low-level superman can jump really, really high. Until you get to Balance on the Sky.

[Malroth]

Elan Warlock7, Binder 1, Crusader 2 Infected with Festering Anger
Feats: Eldritch Claws, Beast Strike, Flyby Attack, Rapidstrike
Evocations: Eldritch spear, See the Unseen, Entropic Warding, Fell Flight
Vestige: Naberious
Manuvers: Mountain Hammer, Revitilizing Strike, White Raven Tactics (be your own ally)

[AMFV]

Elan Warlock7, Binder 1, Crusader 2 Infected with Festering Anger
Feats: Eldritch Claws, Beast Strike, Flyby Attack, Rapidstrike
Evocations: Eldritch spear, See the Unseen, Entropic Warding, Fell Flight
Vestige: Naberious
Manuvers: Mountain Hammer, Revitilizing Strike, White Raven Tactics (be your own ally)

So what do we wind up with at the end? Also why use Elan?


And how often, exactly, has Superman died? Not just "get put into a healing coma," but died?

And maybe Doomsday has Dispelling fists.

Again our stated goal is playability over accuracy, complete invulnerability is really hard to develop pre-epic.

[ben-zayb]

It is times like these when I wish I read incarnum more, since I get the feeling that an incarnate or totemist (or both) could do supes in a smallscale.

[Malroth]

So what do we wind up with at the end? Also why use Elan?



Again our stated goal is playability over accuracy, complete invulnerability is really hard to develop pre-epic.
Elan was chosen for ageless quality and Abberation type to qualify for rapidstrike small damage reduction also helps
This is a Lv 10 build that achieves most of Superman's Iconic abilities
Infinite Flight, Check
Eye lasers, Check
Can punch through a castle, Check
Nigh infinite stregnth, Check
High Toughness and Damage Reduction, Check
Super Vision, Check
Super Speed ,only if your DM rules in your favor about White Raven tactics
It also still has 10 levels to play with depending on how you want him to develop
Want Cold breath and better lasers, 3 more levels of Warlock can take care of that
Want to be unbeatably tough, Psycic warrior 4 can pretty much make him immune from HP damage
Want to be melee god, More Crusader or Jade Phoenix Mage
This build can also effectively function as a Diplomonster simply by purchasing Beguiling Influence via Extra Invocation.

[AMFV]

Elan was chosen for ageless quality and Abberation type to qualify for rapidstrike small damage reduction also helps
This is a Lv 10 build that achieves most of Superman's Iconic abilities
Infinite Flight, Check
Eye lasers, Check
Can punch through a castle, Check
Nigh infinite stregnth, Check
High Toughness and Damage Reduction, Check
Super Vision, Check
Super Speed ,only if your DM rules in your favor about White Raven tactics
It also still has 10 levels to play with depending on how you want him to develop
Want Cold breath and better lasers, 3 more levels of Warlock can take care of that
Want to be unbeatably tough, Psycic warrior 4 can pretty much make him immune from HP damage
Want to be melee god, More Crusader or Jade Phoenix Mage
This build can also effectively function as a Diplomonster simply by purchasing Beguiling Influence via Extra Invocation.

The only concern I'd have is that the Festering Anger is very likely to cause some very serious issues. Also getting infected with it might be problematic.

[Slithery D]

If one opens up pathfinder, then while psychic warrior still fits, I feel an Aegis would work just as well if not better.


Second this. Form it as an astral skin, fluff it blue, put on a red cape. If you've got a super high Intelligence just alter your suit on the fly to dump points between close to maxed out Flight for super speed and whatever you'd rather have on the ground. Except a custom Eidolon build, there's nothing with a higher fly speed than a Pathfinder Aegis who puts everything in to Flight.

You can get psicrystal/vigor/share pain tricks going with with the Power Stone suit abilities for near invulnerability, the rest is less out there, but you can get good without great on his other abilities.

[Malroth]

Well of course any method of getting +whatever you want to a stat is a problem but the build still works fine even with 14-16 STR, 5d6 base damage punch attacks that become 20d8 after a single casting of Greater Mighty Wallop can deal much greater than level appropiate damage to anything regardless of STR mod its just the to hit modifier you need to worry about.

[AMFV]

Second this. Form it as an astral skin, fluff it blue, put on a red cape. If you've got a super high Intelligence just alter your suit on the fly to dump points between close to maxed out Flight for super speed and whatever you'd rather have on the ground. Except a custom Eidolon build, there's nothing with a higher fly speed than a Pathfinder Aegis who puts everything in to Flight.

You can get psicrystal/vigor/share pain tricks going with with the Power Stone suit abilities for near invulnerability, the rest is less out there, but you can get good without great on his other abilities.

Well I'm not 100% on Pathfinder Psionics yet, but can you still get Expanded Knowledge to pull powers off other lists? If so you could probably get most things.

[georgie_leech]

Well I'm not 100% on Pathfinder Psionics yet, but can you still get Expanded Knowledge to pull powers off other lists? If so you could probably get most things.

That's explicitly a thing you can do. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/expanded-knowledge-psionic)

[AMFV]

Outstanding, so we have a few Psionic methods, and one involving Festering Anger. Anything else we can come up with?

[Xuldarinar]

That's explicitly a thing you can do. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/expanded-knowledge-psionic)

I hate to burst your bubble, and my own, but.... You cannot in the case of the aegis.

While that feat is amazing: "Add to your powers known one additional power of any level up to one level lower than the highest-level power you can manifest."
The aegis class, while I assume it possesses manifesting levels, does not have access to psionic powers inherently.

[georgie_leech]

I hate to burst your bubble, and my own, but.... You cannot in the case of the aegis.

While that feat is amazing: "Add to your powers known one additional power of any level up to one level lower than the highest-level power you can manifest."
The aegis class, while I assume it possesses manifesting levels, does not have access to psionic powers inherently.

I make no comments about the Aegis class, just that Expanded Knowledge lets you use other classes' lists.

[Xuldarinar]

I make no comments about the Aegis class, just that Expanded Knowledge lets you use other classes' lists.

Granted, but I assumed since it was a response to a comment that was responding to one talking about the aegis class I should point that out.

[Waddacku]

For immunity to damage may I suggest a dip in Pugilist(Fighter variant from Dragon) and one of the myriad of ways to be immune to nonlethal damage? :smallbiggrin:

"shake it off", one of its skills read as "the pugilist develops non-lethal damage only"

It's clarified in the letters section of a subsequent issue that there's supposed to be a "resistance to" (or "damage resistance to") between "develops" and "non-lethal."

[pwykersotz]

Well, Superman has a strength score of about 383 in the issue where he drags the earth. That's just enough to push/pull/drag 6.58 Sextillion Tons Just in case, you know, you want to have a number to match.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RickSenger/2008-03-05_011527_WF208-1.jpg

[AvatarVecna]

Combine Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Knockback, some sort of pounce ability, and Dungeon Crasher Fighter 6; You'll need either Large size or powerful build for Knockback. Why, you ask?

Power Attack...
1) Lets you shift a point of BAB away for a point of damage (two if you're wielding two-handed).

Shock Trooper...
1) Lets you shift the Power Attack penalty from attack bonus to AC.
2) Lets you shift the direction you bull rush people in.

Leap Attack...
1) Let's you add the base PA damage bonus to your charge damage if you can make an easy jump check.
2) If you can't get a +9 to Jump somehow, considering this builds focus on Strength, I can't help you.

Knockback...
1) Lets you add a Bull Rush to any Power Attack.
2) Said Bull Rush adds the damage bonus from PA to the opposed Bull Rush roll.

The result: Superman (http://youtu.be/Cl_5UwS57X8?t=25s).

[AMFV]

I'm sorry to throw my own hat into the ring but I had (and stole some of your) good ideas:

This is not quite Superman, it's more along the lines of the Superboy from the Young Justice Series, which fits since the powers come along rather slowly as compared to the regular Superman. But we do manage to get most of them with only a single fairly fuzzy moment.

We begin at ECL 4 (and level 1), we find our Hero the victim and creation of of a drow weapons program deep beneath the Surface of the Earth. We begin with the Lesser Earth Genasi (for +2 to Strength, and con [although that won't matter in a second), then we apply the Blooded one Template for one Leval adjustment followed by an additional +2 Strength, the is template also notably gives us +2 Natural Armor.

But our Hero isn't a creation of biology but rather of twisted science. So we apply the Dustform Creature Template giving us a -2 to our dex, and +4 to Strength (Our total Strength bonus now reaching +8), we however are now a construct, so we need to bring ourselves to life using the Incarnate Construct, which reduces our LA to +1, and removes all of the penalties on our intelligence, however we still have some penalties to our Wisdom and Charisma. Also we lose all benefits of any boosted Con scores we had.

Since this is an Evil Drow project, they naturally would perform both the Mineral Warrior ritual (Giving us +2 Strength, +4 Con, and -2 to all mental stats, also a bevy of other nice abilities), and the Lolth Touched Ritual (or something thereabouts, resulting in a +6 Strength and +6 Con, also an alignment shift, but we would need to roleplay that as unshifting once the character is rescued.

So with a 32 Point Buy our abilities are:


Strength: 32 (+11 Modifier)
Dex: 8 (That'll get fixed, but for the minute we're not the most dextrous superbeing)
Con: 24 (It's a nice start on being invulnerable)
Int: 8
Wis: 10
Cha: 8

Obviously we haven't quite hit the presence of Superman here, but we're young impulsive, and we haven't learned much about the world around us, out of our test tube.

So our unsuspecting hero is rescued by wandering heroes (naturally and rethinks his career and life, trading in his first RHD for a real class level in Fighter.

At ECL 4 (Level 1 Fighter), we take Sacred Vow (rethnking our life and such, and Improved Unarmed Strike)

So as far as the iconic abilities go, our Hit Points leave something to be desired but our Strength is massive, and we are moving towards invulnerable, we have +5 Natural Armor, and DR 8/Adamantine, which is very convenient in terms of mitagating our current hit points. We can't quite fly, although we can leap quite a bit (+15 Jump Check) So that's a start.

From there we would take a level of Psychic Warrior, giving us some bonus feats and eventually moving us towards psychic power. even though at this point we're too weak to manifest (we take Power Attack as our bonus feat)

At 3rd Level we take another level of Fighter, in this case we take Dungeoncrasher fighter, because smashing things into things is what we do best. We also take Vow of Poverty. This gives us a +5 Bonus to our Ac, Endure Elements and a bonus Exalted Feat, which we spend on Subduing Strike.

Then we take another Level of fighter, gaining another bonus Exalted feat we take Vow of Peace. Since Superman NEVER kills anyone, of course it's questionable if you can get the DM to let that work with Dungeoncrasher, but I'd try talking really fast. We also boost our Strength to 33.

At Fifth Level we again take fighter, and Leap Attack as our snazzy bonus feat for our fourth level of fighter.

At sixth level we take another of level of Psionic Warrior, taking Improved Bullrush and Shock Trooper. For our Bonus Exalted Feat we take Vow of Peace, which means that weapons now break off our skin, we have an AC increase and are starting to feel pretty good about ourselves, we're moving towards the iconic Superman

At seventh and eighth level we continue to take fighter levels, finishing out dungeon crasher, we also add a second point to Strength, making it 36 (Don't forget our Vow Of Poverty bonus kicks in around that time). We get Mind shielding and a natural Armor increase.

At ninth level we take our first level of Warmind (why we were taking Psionic warrior in the first place), we still can't manifest any powers, but we get the chain of personal Superiority to boost our physical stats, giving us a maximum Strength of 38. We also get our first LA buyback, which is pretty significant.

We continue taking Warmind levels and gaining a few feats at this point though most of our iconic abilities are gained through powers or through the use of our present abilities, Everything beyond this point is fairly simplistic. We select Wisdom as our second boost for our Vow, which allows us to manifest our powers. We aren't as charismatic or as intelligent aas we'd like but that's coming.

At level 15 we gain our second stat boost and we can use Sweeping strikes to bull rush and hit more than one person, we also take Expanded Knowledge Flight, basically at this point we're pretty nearly set as the iconic Superman. After this point leveling up is pretty much open.

So in the end as far as the abilities go we have:

Super Strength (Our Strength is 45, 49 with Chain Of Personal Superiority, and that's without using our Psionics to buff)

Resiliance: (We have DR 10/Evil, DR 8/Adamantine, Energy Resistance 15 and a Con score of 28, that being our third boost stat, we also have regeneration and natural armor bonuses that aren't to be scoffed at, also weapons break against our skin, which is very appropriate.)

Flight: Expanded Knowledge Fly and a huge jump score manages this for us.

Super Senses: We have true Seeing, which helps.

The other abilities can be acquired using expanded knowledge or whatnot, in any case we should get practiced manifester someplace. But that's pretty much my Pre-Epic Superman. He's front loaded so he feels pretty heroic even as low as ECL 4 and pretty much stays impressive throughout, I did steal most of your ideas, but hopefully it made a worthwhile product.